olympics

Top U.S. swimming coach calls China's Ye 'suspicious'

103 Comments

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© 2012 AFP

©2020 GPlusMedia Inc.

103 Comments
Login to comment

So now is she guilty until proven innocent? This is how it works? Burn the witch, prove her wrong later??

1 ( +11 / -10 )

Slow down, no one was calling for that. Just given the fact and history of China often having been caught doping, it is something to look into, nothing wrong with that and if she won it unaided, great, more power to her. If it were ANY other country, this would NOT be an issue. But looking back at the last couple of Olympics, China was caught, so it is something to look into. If the same thing happened to the US, the proper thing would be to investigate as well. This is about possible doping, NOT about bashing a country. Leave politics out of it.

3 ( +12 / -9 )

They are giving their opinions that this 16 yr old girl with splits faster than one of the fastest male swimmers in the world seems suspicious. Should they just shut up or what? Maybe she just has good genes and excellent training - we'll see.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

It's not what you know,it's what you can prove. As for China's history? The U.S. own doping in track and field so...

0 ( +8 / -8 )

It might be a case of not being able to prove anything at the moment but they have her drug test sample on file and in the near future they will be able to test for drugs which can't be tested for at the moment........lets wait and see but anyone who can't see that this is a little 'sus' is kidding themselves.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

i bet she is just tiny and the water molecules don't notice her. Or maybe they used genetic engineering?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I don't know about this case but it would look suspicious if a female athlete runs the 100 meters in 9 seconds though. Maybe this girl is built like a dolphin with less friction. But when you think about it, the fastest swimmers are only going around 6 miles per hour. If records continue to be broken, does that mean eventually (in the future) someone will be able to swim this in less than 50 seconds ? Or is there a limit?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Generally, just like in the last Olympics, the amount of racism is absolutely disgusting. Had she been white (or just non-Chinese), there would never have been any talk about drugs. Michael Phelps did extraordinary things in Beijing - you could have dubbed him a machine or superman, and yet I don't recall any suspicions or talk rubbishing his performances. Yes, she was quicker than Lochte in the last 50m, but Lochte swam much much faster overall.

I personally don't know who is taking what. But it's strange that the Chinese are always viewed as guilty. Has she been tested several times already? I gather that she has or will be.

Just followed the men's diving live on the net yesterday and the posts on twitter were vile and racist - people wanting to push the Chinese boys off the board, etc. The Brits have put a lot of pressure on their own talent and have paid the price, but as usual, opt to blame the Chinese for every single loss.

-4 ( +12 / -16 )

Pretty sure China still dopes. More than 50 Chinese swimmers have been caught doping in the last 30 years. The most recent was Li Zhesi who was caught 2 months ago.

The reason why I generalize the entire Chinese team is because of their state sponsored Olympic program. Chinese athletes are plucked from their parents as children. They train under the same coaches, in the same center, under government supervision with little to no personal freedom. If one of them is doping, chances are all of them are doping. They don't have the independent volunteer athlete system that the rest of the world does.

The government might claim they are against PEDs but the fact that their state sponsored athletes get routinely busted for using them speaks volumes.

-1 ( +12 / -13 )

Pretty sure China still dopes.

Do you have proof? Or is this just your opinion?

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

The Olympics is all about doping. Performance enhancing, doping, blood treatments, traceable steroids, new untraceable varieties..

The wonderful thing about the pharmaceutical industry is that it doesn't discriminate. They will provide it all to any country willing to pay.

I like watching professional wrestling for the steroid freaks. Other people like watching the olympics. What's the difference?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Do you have proof? Or is this just your opinion?

State sponsored swimming program which has produced more than 50 positive tests in the last 3 decades? The fact that they were caught red handed hiring the same east german doping scientists that ruined the olympics decades earlier? A 16 year old girl out swimming male gold medalist?

The most recent positive occurred 1-2 months ago. Had she not been caught, she would be in the olympics right now. I don't know where these swimmers get their drugs from but the fact that they are state sponsored athletes who are strictly monitored and trained from child to champion makes this all the more questionable. There is a very high probability that the state itself provides "supplements" to its athletes.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

If no one were to question seemingly unbelieveable achievements in an age where one has the access to dope then we may as well not test for dope at all. She needs to be thoroughly tested.... and to be fair... all other winners should be willing to be tested right after the winning race.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I used to like the Olympics but all the glitzy cremony, scandals and bad sportsmanship have really turned me off. And the fact that they now include sports that too much airtime outside of the Olympics and too much airtime within the Olympics really gets me too. How about some tradition? Must we make the Olympics the Walmart of sports?

Bring back the sportsmanship and show us those athletes who are in their sport simply for the love of it, regardless of how popular it is or isn't.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I think they should have a doped Olympics. With people drugged up to the max, doing insane things.

Some dude maxed out on steroids, trying to lift a tank or something. I'd rather watch that than that stupid fast walking, or synchronized swimming garbage.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

But it's strange that the Chinese are always viewed as guilty.

Why is it strange? It's called reputation.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Oh come on, China always plays fair... Right?

6 ( +12 / -6 )

so based on reputation, we should expect the U.S. to invade another sovereign country pretty soon then?

If Romney gets elected. Yep.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@2020hindsights and tokyokawasaki:

So 1.3 billion Chinese are guilty by association?

One of the key tenets of democracy is that we treat people as individuals, and judge them on their individual merits and not their race/nationality.

There have been plenty of non-Chinese who have doped (including Americans and Europeans). Mark Landis, Michelle de Bruin, Marion Jones, to name a few. So doping is hardly a Chinese thing.

Medalists are required to be tested. Why don't we all wait for the results and not attack a sixteen year old girl based purely on speculations.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

So, simply test her out. If she fails, the man is correct in his suspicions. If she is not doping, the US coach should offer an apology and quit his post -- for clearly he is a poor judge of talent.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Seven seconds in swimming is an eternity - her time in the event improved by that much in one year. An excellent question is that if she was known to be so fast recently by her own team why isn't she on the relay team or more individual events? It wouldn't matter if she was from Suriname or San Marino, her split time is amazing enough to warrant close scrutiny.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

So 1.3 billion Chinese are guilty by association?

Guilty? No. Under suspicion if the do amazingly well? Yes. Unfortunate, but you reap what you sow.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

One of the key tenets of democracy is that we treat people as individuals, and judge them on their individual merits and not their race/nationality.

China isnt a democracy if you havent noticed and as mentioned since the state trains these athletes from a young age I highly doubt that even the swimmers themselves would know if they were doped or not. At least the potential for it happening exists.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

She probably is not doping but I am sure she is taking some ancient Chinese secret herbs which is similar to doping...

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@smith

So, simply test her out.

It's not that simple, unfortunately. Dopers stop long enough before a big event so that nothing shows up if they're tested. It's not "is she doping?" but "was she?"

Personally, I've got no idea.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Talk about sour grapes: what a mean-spirited little man!

2 ( +7 / -5 )

@Yubaru,

You misunderstood my point completely. You and I live in democracies and I assume you also believe in democratic values. We therefore should treat ALL people, regardless whether they live in democratic countries or an authoritarian regime, as individuals and judge them base on their individual merit.

You seem to imply that if people live in oppressive regimes, they should be judged by a different standard, that of guilty by association.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

How can you call out racism when the coach mentioned now one but two cases of European doping as precedent to his suspicion? Personally, I hope she didn't dope, but if it looks fishy better to squash it now than have a question mark next to her performance.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I highly doubt that even the swimmers themselves would know if they were doped or not. At least the potential for it happening exists.

Exactly my thinking.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

what this article has left out is that ALL medal winners are tested, so there really is no need for conjecture. he's just being a racist, i mean, jealous twat.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

what this article has left out is that ALL medal winners are tested, so there really is no need for conjecture.

But they don't always get caught. Michelle de Bruin wasn't caught.

he's just being a racist, i mean, jealous twat.

British media have also pounced on her performances, pointing to China’s record of state-sponsored doping in the 1980s and 1990s.

It's not being racist. If a nation has a history of doping, questions will be asked.

Also, she was a full 5 seconds faster than her previous best. That's a lot.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Typical knuckle head Yank response. He should be suspended, there has thus far been no proof of foul play.

If she had been an American she would be described as a one off but as she is Chinese she is a cheat, sour grapes me thinks.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Interestingly, Ian Thorpe has gone into bat for her saying that he himself knocked 5 seconds off a PB in a year when he was young - he clearly believes it's quite possible she is just a superfreak.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

If she has not tested positive for doping then there is no need for comment, period. How would the US coach feel if everyone suspected his athletes because they were doing well, with no proof of doping? Would it suddenly be an outrageous scandal? Probably yes, so why on earth does he have the right to do the same just because one woman outdoes his athletes?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

And people, this is not 'sour grapes'; it's just bad sportsmanship. Sour grapes would be if the coach said they didn't want to win top spot anyway.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I am sure that Ye Shiwen has been tested negatively for drugs -why is this not news and conjecture is?????????

4 ( +4 / -0 )

2020hindsights: "But they don't always get caught. Michelle de Bruin wasn't caught."

And not everyone accused by a losing team is doping, either. Doesn't seem to change the opinion of those against this women without a shred of proof.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

2020hindsight: "Also, she was a full 5 seconds faster than her previous best. That's a lot."

Guess what... Phelps was a lot slower than previously. Sometimes when the Olympics roll around people rise to the occasion while others flop.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

i hope that she will be clean so that_____person will have to apoligize to this young lady and her countrymen.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Frankly I worry for her. 16, in the paws of Chinese officials. They wouldn't hesitate to mess her health, and that of a few hundreds like her one medal. Like East Germany used to do and most of their champions have been crippled, heavy sick from their late 20's, if they survived. Injecting drugs, getting them pregnant, changing blood, whatever has been invented since them... Of course, they would not tell the girl what. In the US, I think they wouldn't force it on athletes. Enough are volunteering for it. I don't watch the games for the same reasons I don't go to the dolphin shows : the animals get their lifespan and health wasted, just to entertain the audience.

Michael Phelps did extraordinary things in Beijing - you could have dubbed him a machine or superman, and yet I don't recall any suspicions

No suspicion about him. Clearly. http://www.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/phelpsmarijuana2-500x666.jpg They clean him for the competition season, but he trains on dope, so what difference ?

How would the US coach feel if everyone suspected his athletes because they were doing well, with no proof of doping?

That's not if. How does he feel ? Bitter as you can see.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

John Leonard, executive director of the World Swimming Coaches Association should resign his position should he be proven wrong. Otherwise he can say whatever he wants but as a gentleman he should ask for drug testing without spilling it allover the media. It's a matter of " class " or lack thereof...........................

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Cos - Give me a break on the Phelps bashing. That is a cheap shot posting that picture. As for this girl doing the incredible, it is incredibly suspicious. No, scratch that. A flat out obvious doping case. It will come out. Just takes time.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Cos: I really can't make heads or tails of your comment, unfortunately. I realize the first part is about buying into the idea that things MIGHT have been done to her like those that were done way, way, way back when (and for yet she has to test positive). But perhaps this young lady just trained her heart out, and when the time came -- the Olympics -- she did a whole lot better than in previous practices.

I don't think anyone has any doubt about Phelps, the point is that if you have a right to doubt this Chinese woman based on NOTHING than you have every right to assume Phelps and all the American athletes are doping as well. Doesn't mean they are, of course... just means that the suspicious is baseless.

"That's not if. How does he feel ? Bitter as you can see."

Because clearly he's an A-hole. He should resign immediately and apologize to the young woman and China as a whole.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

smithinjapan - If you know anything about swimming, you know that this is not any where near possible. The suspicions are very understandable and are not baseless at all. Things like this don't JUST happen. China has a long, long, long well-documented of doping. While other countries may be doing the same thing, they are consistent and careful. Any type of huge difference is going to be met with suspicion and should be. Especially if a young women is suddenly swimming faster then the top male. Just commonsense to suspect it.

As for calling him an A-hole, now that is baseless. No, he should not apologize to anyone. It is too suspicious to not comment on. He has every right to say what he feels, especially with something this outrageous. The guy has been at it longer than you have been alive most likely. He is a pro. He knows what he is talking about and I bet you his comments will turn out to FACTS and once again China will be caught cheating. That is something that never changes. Business, sports, etc. But that is for another subject.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Generally, just like in the last Olympics, the amount of racism is absolutely disgusting. Had she been white (or just non-Chinese), there would never have been any talk about drugs.

Oh please when East German female swimming team just dominated there were a lot of suspicions of doping.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Hi suspicions have been proved unfounded. He should have the good grace to apologise.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

This Leonard guy is a zero - he has no evidence against this kid. How would he like it if everyone accused the US of doping every time they break a record - they have a pretty shocking history of it too. Look at their Olympians Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, Butch Reynolds, LaShawn Merritt, CJ Hunter, Tyler Hamilton - and a certain athlete who retired on the eve of mandatory off-season dope testing, Flo Jo. Not to mention a certain champ ex-cyclist under investigation. They have returning drug cheats competing at this very Olympics.

Did anyone accuse Rice of doping after breaking the world record previously in this event - breaking her own PB by 6 SECONDS? No - because she was Australian. Did anyone accuse Phelps of doping for smashing every record in the book and winning a swag of golds? Lay off the kid - there are some superb and physically freakish Chinese athletes in the population of 1.3 Billion. I don't agree with their military-style training - and they have a history previously of having doped athletes - but the hypocrisy of this Leonard dropkick is amazing.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

BurekuminDes - The Leonard guy is zero? Shows how much you know about swimming. The evidence against the kid is obvious. Women don't turn in similar times as men at the end of the race. Just doesn't happen and as he said,

But the final 100m was impossible. Flat out. If all her split times had been faster I don’t think anybody would be calling it into question, because she is a good swimmer,” he said.

When did you start watching the Olympics? This time? Are you kidding me? They are always pointing the finger at the US for each and every thing. You can run names of US athletes who have been busted. So, what? Big Deal? Can you run off the names of the athletes who have been busted from your country or your continent? That would be fair. Go for it. Bet you can't. But there are many. So many athletes from most countries have been caught cheating so get off the US Bashing Bandwagon. It is not new. It is not creative. It is mundane.

And to the poster who called racism? Really now? China has racked up so many suspensions from drug use. Glaring usage of it from as far back as the 80's. Yes, Phelps's record were questioned A LOT. So many times. That is nonsense. The East Germans, Soviets and so many East Bloc countries were loaded with steroids and it was in the press then, too. And it will be when another WHITE WOMAN gets caught. So, please give the race card a rest.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

soctchegg -

Hi suspicions have been proved unfounded. He should have the good grace to apologise.

I sure hope you post an apology when this girl tests positive for steroid usage or some other type of doping. Will we see that? Bet not. And when it comes up that he was telling the truth and she was not, I sure hope to see a lot of apologies. It happens like this every four years. Chinese does something amazing. People scream foul. China denies it. And then later, "oh, by the way, so and so has tested positive for steroids. And then where are the naysayers who said that those who are point the finger were jealous? No where to be found. Mark my words. It will come out.

Another good reason to bash the daylights out of the US. That is all it is. Cheap. Mundane. Unoriginal.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Another good reason to bash the daylights out of the US. That is all it is. Cheap. Mundane. Unoriginal.

I mean that to all of you who are throwing the US under the bus. Not just scothegg.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Sandie, check the latest news. She's been tested and cleared.

Now apologise.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

No need to. Masking. It is simple as that. It will come out. And you will be apologizing.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Oh and Scotch. Where does your information come from that she has been checked out and cleared? I have not seen anything that says that. Where is your proof? Even if you can prove that, I bet you know nothing about masking techniques. I also bet you no little or nothing about swimming, weight training or any of those things at all. Well, guess what I DO! I know extremely well. Let me put it to you this way.

These things are not done. It is unnatural and inconceivable to break away this much. You might as well start putting men in the same pools as women. Remember she swam a faster time in the last 100 meters than the best MALE DID and that guy is Fast. Really now? Do you want to go ahead and believe that that is possible? This girl not surprise, she pulled in a jaw dropping time that is not heard of. Has never been seen before. Nobody could have seen this coming and nobody did. Usually you see it coming. Not this time. Plus, just like he said,

If all her split times had been faster I don’t think anybody would be calling it into question

On one side, you have the novice people who just watch and think they know something about swimming and training. And on the other side you have people like me who know very well about training. If you ask everyone in the Olympic village who is a coach in swimming, they will all say just what he said. "Impossible". And don't play the race card. If this was a US swimmer I would be saying the same thing. But anomalies like this one are not possible naturally. I am done talking about this but you will be able to find me, when this scandal resurfaces. I will be looking for ya.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

How can you say to someone, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?" Some biblical quote. People saying she's doping and she may well be.She doesn't look particularly happy when winning does she? But the free rein to blast her is straight up wrong and those of you piously doing it,based on a hunch wouldn't be so bold if you could be sued. Or if it were an American accused,you'd be indignantly suggesting legal action against everybody. But when the U.S. cleans up their own track and field doping then maybe you can tell people what to do because you did it by leading the way. Till then silence is golden till wishful hunch proves otherwise.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Oh, and I will just bet that all you people attacking the US coach for stating the obvious, would be siding with him if he were from your own country. This is just another one of those, let's stick it to the Americans nonsense. Search yourselves. You know it is true.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Probie - I like this. Nice one.

Some dude maxed out on steroids, trying to lift a tank or something. I'd rather watch that than that stupid fast walking, or synchronized swimming garbage.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

As of this posting, the IOC is saying that she passed the drug test guys!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

If ye were Japanese, everyone would have attributed her record breaking swim as samurai fighting spirit. Case closed.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

JDB829. Thanks for the information. Good to know. Honestly I would rather see her have gotten it fair and square despite what it may read like in my previous posts. But reality will show different and does show so as well. State sponsored from childhood is a different ball game. Plus, even even If she passed the test, the IOC has admitted that they can not keep up with masking drugs at all. I have read that a few times in the recent past as well. There was another Chinese athlete who was supposedly busted by Chinese authorities for EPO. I forgot the athletes name, but I would call that a sacrificial lamb. Most likely took too much of it or something else and it was beyond masking.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

smithinjapan: the point is that if you have a right to doubt this Chinese woman based on NOTHING

smith, relax. People who have been around the sport are saying that what happened was outside of the norm. You pretend as if people are only saying, "she's Chinese so she cheated." When several irregularities pop up with the same swimmer at the same time they start asking questions. It's just how it is, and it doesn't matter which country they come from.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

BurekuminDes - The Leonard guy is zero? Shows how much you know about swimming.

Really? I know nothing about swimming? That's an interesting view. Come back to me when you can also do a 1500m set in under 19 minutes.

The evidence against the kid is obvious. Women don't turn in similar times as men at the end of the race.

Obvious? You realise, for example, other female distance swimmers do turn in faster times for the last 50 as Lochte, no? Becky Adlington 2 days ago, to name one. Please check the stats and - again - come back to me with some hard evidence and not your sour grapes American bias.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Yes, the IOC is telling the US to back off. That is true. My bad. But I still think this will prove AS HAS HAPPENED REPEATEDLY IN THE PAST differently soon enough. Just give it time.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Please do not be obsessed with this issue.

Oh, and I will just bet that all you people attacking the US coach for stating the obvious, would be siding with him if he were from your own country. This is just another one of those, let's stick it to the Americans nonsense. Search yourselves. You know it is true.

Again, complete fantasy. I remember clearly the Sydney 2000 Games - in my home city - when a deadbeat, right-wing racist Sydney radio star (Alan Jones for the Aussies on here) accused the Chinese ladies basketball team of doping because they were so tall and strong, being men, etc - all because they had the audacity to shock the Aussie girls on the court with a masterful performance. At least the Jones grub had the decency to apologise after the Games and admit he was wrong - I doubt this Leonard dropkick will.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What I've noticed at these games in the swimming is the usurping of the champs from the last games.Rice,Jones,Kitajima,Coventry,Addlington, Phelps even,and some others, getting clobbered by younger and hungrier swimmers.Be they 15, 16, or 17 years old. It's a COMPLETE and UTTER joy to watch.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I think this is a WAY different than that. BURA. That was just bad judgement. Let's see deadbeat, right-wing racist Sydney Radio Star. Ummmm. Excuse me, Radio Star???? No experience at all. Should shut his mouth but probably did for the same reason that Rush Limbaugh would do it in the States.RATINGS! POPULARITY. On the other hand we have someone who has been in this for more than 40 years. Knows what it is like. Knows just about everything there is to know about swimming, but you are going to compare him to a guy pulling for ratings? Do you know what FANTASY really is? Fantasy is giving that as an example and hoping that it holds water. It will not. That is a really bad example to give.

Ah, if he were Aussie, you would be signing right along with him. Especially if he had as much knowledge and experience as this one does.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yes, cracaphat it is truly nice to watch the youngsters beat up on the famed ones. I love a young, hungry athlete. But don't forget, those are the same guys that did the same thing a few years ago. Remember they were the young guns at one time who were hungry beating up on the ones who had already made a name for themselves.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

It is not new.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

She has been cleared of doping, will foul mouther American and his bile supporters eat humble pie? Doubt it!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Yes, cleared of doping. Ian Thorpe on TV this morning said that when he was 16 he shaved 5 seconds from his best previous time, just like this girl did.

Just sour grapes as far as I'm concerned.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

China has supplanted Australia as a swimming power with the US. People should just accept it.

Nevertheless, the IOC testing shouldn't be proud of its own testing history. Remember, Lance Armstrong never tested positive with the IOC when he was on the Olympics neither. Although admittedly, the difference in the 80's and 90's was that China was state-sponsored, not individual, so China will always have its own history to deal with as well.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

So 1.3 billion Chinese are guilty by association?

Way to strawman, bro.

No-one is saying all Chinese are guilty. They are saying that in countries with deplorable track records for adhering to Olympic drug rules and with non-transparent state-sponsored training programs, it warrants suspicion when an athelete makes such a quick improvement.

I love a young, hungry athlete.

Depends what they're hungry for. ;)

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Bura - You are comparing a right-wing, racist radio show host who knows nothing of swimming with a guy who has more than 40 years of experience in swimming. Ridiculous.

Johnny - Foul mouther American and his bile supporters? How can he be considered foul mouthed when he has not used bad words at all? All he has done has pointed out the obvious about a country that has continuously been busted for steroid use. He also knows a lot more about swimming than most likely all of the people posting here do as well. What? When you see a fire, you don't yell "fire"?

lostrune and Nessie seem to be making the most sense of this. Like one said, Armstrong never posted positive and we all know that so many people accused him of such. I have seen so many Americans accused by one and all of steroid use and not being caught on this very forum. Seemed okay then to bash the daylights out of the US and seems okay now as well. If an American had claimed such times you guys would be howling at the TV as well, just like with Lance Armstrong and so many other Americans who have been accused of steroid use here.

All I see is a bunch of hypocrites who just love to bash the US. And like I said before, if the judge had come from your country, you most likely would be able to see the light. Don't forget the samples are kept for eight years. But I will bet something comes out in less than two months.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

2020hindsight: "Also, she was a full 5 seconds faster than her previous best. That's a lot."

Guess what... Phelps was a lot slower than previously. Sometimes when the Olympics roll around people rise to the occasion while others flop.

Actually reconsidering: I think that because she is 16 is enough reason for improving so much. It's a lot less suspicious when you consider her age and that she is still developing. If it had been a 25 year old improving that much, then suspicious. But at 16, not so much.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Has this ever happened in the history of swimming before, in ANY event ?.I don't know what type of drug would condition performance in one leg of one event but clearly when you have one of the fastest male swimmers ever having the same split as a young women after a grueling race, then people should rightfully be suspicious.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

sandiegoluv: "Just commonsense to suspect it."

Only to the loser. Had Phelps suddenly broke a record by a few seconds no one would bat an eye, and you'd be crying foul if someone stepped up and suggested doping.

Bottom line is you've got NO proof, nor does the US coach, and neither of you have anything to put your baseless accusations on, unlike calling the coach an a-hole for insisting and not apologizing for the accusations without any proof. THAT is proof he is wrong, and the swimmer is right. It's also a lot of proof that there are a whole lot of poor losers out there on the US side of things if they cannot congratulate a person on a super job. She's a female teen, bro, and seeing a sudden spurt in energy in one of those isn't like if it were someone nearing their thirties.

You're just going to have to accept that she outswam her competitors, fair and square.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Thunderbird: "Yes, cleared of doping. Ian Thorpe on TV this morning said that when he was 16 he shaved 5 seconds from his best previous time, just like this girl did."

Thanks for that, Thunderbird. More proof that the people shaking their fists and saying it's impossible because she's Chinese just can't possibly think without bias (you misused 'sour grapes', again, though).

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

sandiegoluv: "Where does your information come from that she has been checked out and cleared? I have not seen anything that says that. Where is your proof? Even if you can prove that, I bet you know nothing about masking techniques"

So you demand people provide proof of something that doesn't exist while denying the proof that it's not there? I've heard this before from Americans.

"No need to. Masking. It is simple as that. It will come out. And you will be apologizing."

Yeah, and we'll see you disappear when you continue to search for nothing and come up with... nothing. The coach needs to resign and apologize profusely. He has disgraced the team, the nation, and the games, in particular with admitting his athletes to not have the natural ability to keep up with one prove not to be doping. What a shame. I feel sorry for the US swimmers.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Seriously, the US coach is just miffed that a young Chinese girl can swim faster than his new golden boy. Maybe that kid's 'doping and masking'... I mean, no proof can be had, same as with the Chinese girl.

I pity the people who cannot take the person's victory for what it is instead of being such poor sports. Maybe the two of them should have a swim off.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

smithinjapan - Your deep dislike for us American is very clear. That is the problem. What you seem to keep missing is that if Phelps broke a record there would not be anything strange in it, since he has many of them to support such. If people like yourself, expressed doubts and said that he was doping, do you know what I would say? He might very well be. But look at his track record. Hey, what am I talking about, people have been digging into the US for years and years when they break records. I never screamed "Sore loser". NEVER. Fact is that most of them are probably doping anyway, and if you don't believe such, well then enjoy Fantasyland. But when it is this obvious. That is a problem.

Masking is another of the problems here. I know the IOC tries to toot its horn but it has admitted in the past that it is always playing catch up.

Plus she is swimming the same speed as the best male! If that is not bizarre and does not deserve to be questioned then nothing can be questioned again. EVER. It is not possible for a woman in this level of competition to swim as fast as the best man at this level.

China's track record is the proof. The fact that she is swimming at the same speed as the best man in the same race is the proof.

THAT is proof he is wrong, and the swimmer is right.

Sorry, just because you say it does not make it so. I have no idea where you were going with that one. Just because he didn't apologize and he has not physical proof does not mean he is wrong at all. Remember, he doesn't have access to the tests. So, nonsense.

It's also a lot of proof that there are a whole lot of poor losers out there on the US side of things if they cannot congratulate a person on a super job.

Ahhhhhh, once again, half baked truths. Many people have congratulated her on the US side. Get your facts straight. Plus you don't have to congratulate anyone if you think they cheated. That is nonsense and just because you don't have all the tests in your hand does not mean that you should apologize at all.

She's a female teen, bro, and seeing a sudden spurt in energy in one of those isn't like if it were someone nearing their thirties.

Yeah, but my bet is that that is drug induced. Hey, look if someone is from somewhere that is famous for lying, what do you expect people are going to do when something amazing is done?

"Where does your information come from that she has been checked out and cleared? I have not seen anything that says that. Where is your proof? Even if you can prove that, I bet you know nothing about masking techniques"

Hey, I simply asked about where he got the information because i had not read it yet. If you had looked later on I said, "My bad" I had found out the same thing that he had said. As for masking techniques. Oh, boy that is a long one to discuss and I am sure the dear moderator would delete me for going off point. But I have a lot of experience in body building, weight training, power lifting and nutrition and there are many things that can be done to mask drug usage. It has been done by the best of them.

So you demand people provide proof of something that doesn't exist while denying the proof that it's not there? I've heard this before from Americans.

There it is! Right there. I've heard this before from Americans. LMFAO. Obviously your dislike for us is clouding your better judgement. I tend to agree with a lot of things that you say, but not on this one. Come up with something new instead of the same old tired America Bashing. America has nothing to do with this except that the one coach made a comment. British papers did the same thing. Go bash them. Other newspapers and many other people have said this is highly suspicious. With no proof at all. I don't see you bashing the daylights out of them. I will bet that your own countries newspaper had a huge headline on it saying something along the lines of "CHEATER"! Why aren't you huffy puffy over that? Noooooooooo. It has to be about the Americans. Let's lay on them.

He has disgraced the team, the nation, and the games, in particular with admitting his athletes to not have the natural ability to keep up with one prove not to be doping. What a shame. I feel sorry for the US swimmers.

No, he has not disgraced the team, the nation, nor the games. Has not admitted that his athletes dont have the natural ability to keep up with whatever else you said. Yeah, I do feel sorry for the American team, because people are now focusing negative attention on them, when it is obvious that someone went over board on their medication. But read and read carefully. I don't care if the US wins any medals. I am not concerned with aligning myself with a bunch of people just because we share the same flag and whatever. I don't know them and they don't know me. Furthermore, I think aligning yourself with people in the Olympics just because you share the same language or geographical position is ignorant. I would prefer to see no flags there and no national anthems.I want to see the best athletes.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

By the way, I would be happy as everyone else to see some young girl form China be successful. There is nothing better I like to see than for someone do a really good job and beat out the favorites. Come on, that is what makes competition exciting. Had she had been consistent I wouldn't have said a thing. But she was not. Therefore there is so much reason to doubt.

Let me make this clear again. I do not care where she comes from. I don't like nationalism of any kind at all. But I also don't like biased attacks and feel that many poster are being unfair to us Americans. It is not sour grapes one bit. So many people have screamed suspicious, but I don't hear people here mentioning that.

End of debate.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Alright, SmithinJapan very well played. Good for you. You do your research and i will retracted what I said about your obvious dislike for us Americans. However, if you go back and look at things that you said, that is the conclusion that one would get. They were your own words that made me feel that this is just another baseless attack on the US. Now that you state differently, I can not accept that and offer my apologies to such. However you might try not looking like you are bashing the dog out of use with comments like...

So you demand people provide proof of something that doesn't exist while denying the proof that it's not there? I've heard this before from Americans.

Who would know that you were talking about the loser of a pres that we had before. By the way, I never bought the bull that he was shoveling either. But it makes it sound like you are bashing us. I could go on and on and post other comments that seemed to smell the same way, but why bore you. I will let that go. Just rewording and explaining better next time you want to talk about a subject that is not on the table. We are not mind readers, bro and misunderstandings can happen.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

One of the most vexing problems facing drug testing in professional sports is the inability to test for every possible performance enhancing drug that exists. It simply can't be done with current testing methods.

More to the point, it's the designer drugs that are making the testing process near impossible. If an athlete has adequate financial resources, it's not all that difficult to brew up something that can't be detected with current measures.

China has demonstrated in the past that it's perfectly able and willing to be just such a financial resource, not unlike East Germany and the former Soviet Union were for their athletes throughout the Cold War. So China (and its athletes) shouldn't be too surprised that this girl's remarkable performance raised more than a few eyebrows.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

LFRAgain - Exactly. Thank you very much.

There are so many masking drugs out there and they are always being worked on. I saw an interview only a couple of years ago, where doctors working with the IOC openly admitted that they can not possibly keep up with the technology that sports science is creating and are often two to three years behind, which is another reason why the IOC holds the samples for EIGHT YEARS after the Olympics. If they were on top of things, there would be no need to keep the samples, that long. One or two, maybe, but EIGHT? that would seem to be overkill for a group that says they are on top of things. Obviously they are behind the times and they themselves have admitted it. Or at least I saw that.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

We suspect anything that has a history of doping. We suspect cyclists like Lance Armstrong (no proof there neither); we suspect track and field athletes; we suspect baseball players; we suspect former Soviet blocs; we suspect NK athletes, etc. It's just now part of the game.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Please do not be obsessed with this topic. There is no evidence of doping in this case.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

smithinjapan I read your comments last night and responded. Can't argue or praise your comments of which I tried to do both. Meddling moderator is afoot.

So, now Moderator voices opinion. Wait a minute. One that is not your job! Two, the subject of debate here is doping and it is mentioned several times in the story. That is what we are debating. If doping was not the issue then we wouldn't be debating at all. Of all the silliness! Or did the moderator NOT READ THE STORY!

Moderator: Sorry, but there has been no evidence of doping, so we cannot permit slanderous comments.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Faster than Lochte?! I tend to agree with John Leonard...when something is too good to be true, then more often than not, there is fire where there is smoke.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I agree that it doesn't take a genius to beat the tests -- use drugs that are undetectable, only use when least likely to be tested, only take enough to stay below the test thresholds, etc. Not being caught red handed means little more than the Chinese have done research and have come up with a way to dope their athletes that leave insufficient traces of the drugs in their system when it is time for testing or found other drugs that may not be tested for. Hopefully history will find them out.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

America doesn't win so calls her a cheat..sounds like America isn't used to being no2 or 3 or 4..they had better get used to it.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Leave it to a gathering of the world's athletes, meant to foster Peace and friendly competition, to degrade into drug abuse, accusations, political chest-thumping, and corruption.

Why is it a disgrace to get silver instead of gold this time? Why is gold so important that nothing else matters? Why was Mr. Bean the only entertaining part?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Why is it a disgrace to get silver instead of gold this time? Why is gold so important that nothing else matters?

You could add the Chinese state-owned media for that:

http://www.china.org.cn/sports/2012londonolympics/2012-07/31/content_26072232.htm

To some extent, the media are partly responsible for the obsession with gold medals, Wu Zhilin said.

"You see so much media coverage of the gold medalists, from what food they like to revisiting the primary school they attended. The other athletes just fade into the background," he said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--family-kept-grandparents--deaths-secret-from-chinese-diver-until-she-won-gold-medal.html

The Chinese government's attitude towards the performances of its athletes is now coming under greater scrutiny than ever before. Messages of congratulations from the government to athletes through the state news agency have been sent only to gold medalists, not those winning silver or bronze.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

People could say the same for Michael Philips or Armstrong and they do. Like winning 19 Olympic metals isn't suspicious? Well then I would be passing judgement just like everyone else. Track & Field isn't even worth mentioning as is under the microscope as is. What we seem to forget is that China now has access to the same level of training and coaches as US does now. In fact like it or not many former US Olympic Coaches are training Chinese athletes. So it isn't any wonder they are getting so good. Well at least outside their traditional dominant sports like Badminton, Table Tennis, Diving etc. Kitajima trains in the U.S. with a group of swimmers that includes Philips and others. Some US divers are working with Chinese coaches now. US archery team has Korean Coaches now. US Olympic Ski coaches training Chinese freestyle skiers which are among the best in the world now btw. What is happening now is that finally the level of competition is starting to catch up with the rest of the world. Yet when China, Japan, Korea, perform well everyone becomes suspicious. It is about time is all I can say as it is raising everyone's game. Look at the Koreans & Japanese Volleyball teams which have improved considerably since the last Olympics.

Chinese Women's beach Volleyball is ranked among the top in the world now. I just wish Japan would follow suit as there are some outstanding players here as well. Japan has more then one Saori Kimura which has been outstanding. She has scored as many points as some of the men and yet people still question. Korea's Kim Yeon-Koung the same applies which isn't the only thing people question her about not counting her height. What you have never seen a 6"4 Korean before!! Anything which helps promote the sport any sport regardless of what country they are from is fine by me. I think most of their fellow athletes would agree as what other time is their sport put in such high regard other then the Olympics. The likely-hood is much less then it used to be which says something of the IOC crackdown which has helped. Athletes are tested several times a year sometimes without warning, so it is a lot harder to pull off now days. Something I doubt the Chinese are any more capable of doing then anyone else. She is just an amazing swimmer much like Phillips or Satomi Suzuki is so just accept that.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

these games are full of bad winners and bad losers drop the crap, drop the attitude s- - t happens get on with it do your best on the day

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Lee Kaifu, the former president of Google China, midmorning on Thursday posted Mr. Leonard’s home address on Weibo, where he has 15 million followers. In the post, Mr. Lee urged people to contact the coach to ask for an apology

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Lee Kaifu, the former president of Google China, midmorning on Thursday posted Mr. Leonard’s home address on Weibo, where he has 15 million followers. In the post, Mr. Lee urged people to contact the coach to ask for an apology.

Now that is retarded and so-uncalled for if true.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

This is simply NOT justified, towards whoever breaking WR / OR, to accuse without supporting proof -- John Leonard should not repeatedly keep making noise when the teenager was in the competition as this ended up as a conspiracy to 'disturb' her in the subsequent events.

However, he could have raised thousands of questions by urging the IOC to take in-depth investigations on his personal suspected 'doping' given the fact that subsequent findings & proof ( if his suspicion is founded ) could help disqualify the athlete.

What J. Leonard, as a U.S. NOC official, did was regrettably against the Games' spirit of sportsmanship !

1 ( +3 / -2 )

her herbal tea was good than to green tea

1 ( +2 / -1 )

PT24481 - No disrespect intended but I don't a have a clue what you are talking about.

Besides that Lee Kaifu's behavior if true is totally uncalled for. He has no right to do such a thing and should be punished for it. Coach have the right to question someone legitimacy. It happens all the time with American athletes and I don't hear you guys complaining about it then. Double standards.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Rebecca Adlington's final lap was quicker than the American champion Ryan Lochte's, yet no one questioned her performance. Anyway, Ye Shiwen didn't all of a sudden came out of nowhere. She did well in 2010 Asian Games and 2011 World Aquatics Championships. Being coached by both Ken Wood and Denis Cotterell helps too.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Katie Ledecky won her Olympic trials 8:19.78. A few weeks later, she improved her time by 5 seconds to 8:14.63 to win gold beating former champ Rebecca Adlington. She is only 15, hence even younger than Ye Shiwen. How come nothing but praise for this young girl's super performance?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

without faith in the current drug tests what it comes down to is trusting that the other countries are playing by the rules. are we really surprised that after every country has doped we dont trust each other not to do it this time? this is just like the chinese gymnasts who were accused of being underage in '08. when all we have to go on is the word of the chinese government, (because i dont think any chinese newspaper would be crazy enough to chase this story) of course people are going to have questions. *i havent researched whether or not newspapers in china investigated the gymnasts, im just guessing so correct me if im wrong

0 ( +1 / -1 )

sandiegoluv: "Now that is retarded and so-uncalled for if true"

Stupid to do, yes, but the coach does indeed owe the girl an apology, as to the coach's apologists.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites