Taiwan gender-row boxer Lin eases to Paris Olympics gold

ensuring that the two fighters at the centre of a major gender controversy both take home gold.

What's the point of even having a woman's category then?

What's the point of even having a woman's category then?

Having women compete and the best one in the sport win, which is what happened here. People being manipulated by Russian propaganda as puppets should not have any impact.

People being manipulated by Russian propaganda as puppets should not have any impact.

THIS looks more like the typical anti-Russia propaganda we've seen over the past decade or two.

THIS looks more like the typical anti-Russia propaganda we've seen over the past decade or two.

Because the entire world is in a conspiracy against Russia, and they've figured out how to corrupt every media out there, and the Russian media isn't entirely controlled by the Kremlin dictatorship, right?

The IOC has leapt to the defense of both boxers, with president Thomas Bach saying they were born and raised as women, and have passports saying that. Neither is known to identify as transgender.

Really? That's all they have? No genetic testing to counter the IBA's allegations.

What's the point of even having a woman's category then?

Exactly. And this nonsense will continue until the women decide to boycott until they address this.

What's the point of even having a woman's category then?

Exactly. And this nonsense will continue until the women decide to boycott until they address this.

What a clownshow.

Having women compete and the best one in the sport win, which is what happened here. People being manipulated by Russian propaganda as puppets should not have any impact.

They both failed a simple chromosome test. That the head of the IBA is Russian has nothing to do with it. The two boxers in question have not done anything wrong, they are not cheats. They have been brought up as "women" due to the doctor at birth looking downstairs and saying "Its a girl". When all along they were actually male. The IBA rule is the one that should be employed by all sports.

THIS looks more like the typical anti-Russia propaganda we've seen over the past decade or two.

Does the propaganda is supported by shady communications and an obviously corrupt organization that arbitrarily disqualified the athletes that defeated the Russian one so they could crown the latter? Because that is what happened here.

Really? That's all they have? No genetic testing to counter the IBA's allegations.

Since the IBA did not produce any evidence on their own the ball was still on their side, not exactly going well since the corruption was proved beyond reasonable doubt and they could not even mention what test was done.

Exactly. And this nonsense will continue until the women decide to boycott until they address this.

Seeing the huge amount of support the women that won got from the rest of the athletes this is not going to happen any time soon, to the frustration of the people that wanted to force rejection of women baselessly.

They both failed a simple chromosome test. 

No they did not, the IBA claimed they failed something, that they can't even define and were disqualified without due process after violating their rights with targeted measures. Not even the IBA has said any chromosome test was done.

That the head of the IBA is Russian has nothing to do with it. 

You fail to address the point, which is that the IBA was so corrupt it was banned and that the head of the organization was of the same nationality of the boxer that was the beneficiary of her opponents being disqualified without due process. The IBA are cheats even without taking into account this scandal.

The IBA rule is the one that should be employed by all sports.

Of course not, targeted testing, complete lack of transparency, not reporting the type of test nor the results, pretending to know more about the topic than the best experts of the field in the world. Their rules should be the example of what NOT to do.

Olympics has withdrawn recognition of IBA so IBA's test no longer valid.

Olympics should have conducted its own test

Of course they already know what the results will be

So easy to settle the issue but of course they won't do it.

In any case males are now officially accepted in female categories in the Olympics so probably won't be grounds for disqualification whatever the results

Olympics should have conducted its own test

Unfortunately not possible thanks to transphobe interference, any test that pleases the people that protest more loudly would also exclude perfectly normal athletes, and any test that would ensure every woman is included would not be accepted by the prejudiced critics.

So the only current option is to do what what supposed to happen a long time ago and make a well supported and researched system that ensures fair competition with objective determinations of acceptable physical advantages (you know, like in every sport), but public being mislead by corrupt organizations like the IBA only makes it more difficult to do and will take more time. That is the price of not doing things properly the first time, it becomes necessary to clean up the produced disaster first and then begin from zero.

So no, it would not be simple to settle the issue.

Would be a real mess if a legal female since birth is disqualified while males who only recently became female legally can freely compete in women's categories

Maybe worst that could happen may be being subjected to testosterone regulation

The IOC president said:

We have two boxers who are born as a woman, who have been raised as a woman, who have a passport as a woman and who have competed for many years as a woman. This is the clear definition of a woman. There was never any doubt about them being a woman.

What we see now is that some want to own the definition of who is a woman. There I can only invite them to come up with a scientific-based, new definition of who is a woman and how can somebody being born, raised, competed and having a passport as a woman cannot be considered a woman.

Well the International Boxing Association has a simple solution:

Definition of Men/Male/Boy = individual with chromosome XY.

Definition of Women/Female/Girl = individual with chromosome XX

Based on tests carried out by Sistem Tip Laboratory from Istanbul in 2022 and Dr Lal PathLabs from New Delhi in 2023 both boxers were disqualified. But some believe it’s all a big Russian conspiracy only to be able to declare a Russian boxer the winner!

Is it a coincidence that the two XYs each got a gold?

Well the International Boxing Association has a simple solution:

"Simple solutions" like what the IBA did is what made everything a mess.

The solution you present is inacceptable for the transphobes, many women have elevated levels of hormones like testosterone so they would cry unfair for them to be recognized as women (since according to the transphobes that is false).

Is it a coincidence that the two XYs each got a gold?

You love to make this claim even when there is zero references where this has been proved, the IBA did not even said how they tested them much less about the results, so you are making up something out of thin air to have something to criticize them.

Raw Beer

Today 01:38 pm JST

The IOC president said:

> We have two boxers who are born as a woman, who have been raised as a woman, who have a passport as a woman and who have competed for many years as a woman. This is the clear definition of a woman. There was never any doubt about them being a woman

But there is doubt about them being a woman. That's why they were tested. Even now theres an official protest by Hungary about Khelif

If the athletes in question are indeed women it's easy to settle the issue.

They surely must have been tested multiple times just release one result. Or just have one more.

One quick common procedure and all this goes away.

I don't know how someone can be for allowing these two, who genetically are male, to beat up women!

Well the International Boxing Association has a simple solution:

Definition of Men/Male/Boy = individual with chromosome XY.

Definition of Women/Female/Girl = individual with chromosome XX

Based on tests carried out by Sistem Tip Laboratory from Istanbul in 2022 and Dr Lal PathLabs from New Delhi in 2023 both boxers were disqualified. 

But surprisingly:

there is zero references where this has been prove

!!!!!

What I want to know is why didn't the IOC do any genetic test.

If the athletes in question are indeed women it's easy to settle the issue.

That is the problem, thanks to transphobes and other retrograde thinking groups it has become the impossible task of proving a negative. The "easy" way means disqualifying women systematically.

One quick common procedure and all this goes away.

If only, but that is false, the same people that say they would be satisfied with one test would insist more and more are necessary until only their personal, subjective and invalid concept of what is a woman is allowed to participate.

I don't know how someone can be for allowing these two, who genetically are male, to beat up women!

They are not male, you keep repeating a debunked claim

But surprisingly:

Not surprisingly at all, the IBA could not even claim the women karyotype, their claim is that they disqualified them, for all anybody knows they did that determination on eyelash length.

What I want to know is why didn't the IOC do any genetic test.

Because they are trying to correct the current disaster brought by "easy" solutions that solved nothing. Exactly what you are asking to be repeated.

virusrex

Today 05:52 pm JST

If the athletes in question are indeed women it's easy to settle the issue.

> That is the problem, thanks to transphobes and other retrograde thinking groups it has become the impossible task of proving a negative. The "easy" way means disqualifying women systematically.

Lol what ?

Proving a negative?

Disqualifying women?

How so?

virusrex

Today 05:52 pm JST

If the athletes in question are indeed women it's easy to settle the issue.

> That is the problem, thanks to transphobes and other retrograde thinking groups it has become the impossible task of proving a negative. The "easy" way means disqualifying women systematically.

> One quick common procedure and all this goes away.

> If only, but that is false, the same people that say they would be satisfied with one test would insist more and more are necessary until only their personal, subjective and invalid concept of what is a woman is allowed to participate

How is that false? Sex can be definitively established by a chromosome test.

It's still valid even if you don't accept it and insist for more tests

Lol what ?

Proving a negative?

Disqualifying women?

How so?

The "simple" test are just an excuse for people to gain an entry with their unethical, irrational demands, they never stop at easy but instead progressively demand more and more things, chromosomes, hormones, muscle mass, bone density, eventually physical aspect or physical attractiveness, anything and everything they can claim gives an "unfair" advantage. It has been tried before and disqualifying women ends up the result.

Proving a negative because that is what becomes "indispensable" at the end. The impossible task of proving that the athletes will not trigger something the people demanding "equality" will eventually determine as unfair. It is impossible, constant goalpost moving.

How is that false? Sex can be definitively established by a chromosome test.

Welcome to the 21st century, this is false, sex nor gender can be determined by a chromosome test. This is a discarded invalid concept based on very poor understanding of the topic and no recognized institution of science in the world supports this claim. It may not be simple and easy to understand, but it is much more useful and correct.

It's still valid even if you don't accept it and insist for more tests

That is why it is not done as simply as you think it is, because those trying to discriminate unethically never accept it and insist more and more tests are necessary.

virusrex

Today 06:34 pm JST

Lol what ?

> Proving a negative?

> Disqualifying women?

> How so?

> The "simple" test are just an excuse for people to gain an entry with their unethical, irrational demands, they never stop at easy but instead progressively demand more and more things, chromosomes, hormones, muscle mass, bone density, eventually physical aspect or physical attractiveness, anything and everything they can claim gives an "unfair" advantage. It has been tried before and disqualifying women ends up the result.

> Proving a negative because that is what becomes "indispensable" at the end. The impossible task of proving that the athletes will not trigger something the people demanding "equality" will eventually determine as unfair. It is impossible, constant goalpost moving.

Impossible task of proving?

A chromosome test proves the test definitively.

virusrex

Today 06:34 pm JST

Lol what ?

> Proving a negative?

> Disqualifying women?

> How so?

> The "simple" test are just an excuse for people to gain an entry with their unethical, irrational demands, they never stop at easy but instead progressively demand more and more things, chromosomes, hormones, muscle mass, bone density, eventually physical aspect or physical attractiveness, anything and everything they can claim gives an "unfair" advantage. It has been tried before and disqualifying women ends up the result.

> Proving a negative because that is what becomes "indispensable" at the end. The impossible task of proving that the athletes will not trigger something the people demanding "equality" will eventually determine as unfair. It is impossible, constant goalpost moving.

> How is that false? Sex can be definitively established by a chromosome test.

> Welcome to the 21st century, this is false, sex nor gender can be determined by a chromosome test. This is a discarded invalid concept based on very poor understanding of the topic and no recognized institution of science in the world supports this claim. It may not be simple and easy to understand, but it is much more useful and correct

You are saying that sex can not be determined by a chromosome test?

virusrex

Today 06:34 pm JST

Lol what ?

> Proving a negative?

> Disqualifying women?

> How so?

> The "simple" test are just an excuse for people to gain an entry with their unethical, irrational demands, they never stop at easy but instead progressively demand more and more things, chromosomes, hormones, muscle mass, bone density, eventually physical aspect or physical attractiveness, anything and everything they can claim gives an "unfair" advantage. It has been tried before and disqualifying women ends up the result.

> Proving a negative because that is what becomes "indispensable" at the end. The impossible task of proving that the athletes will not trigger something the people demanding "equality" will eventually determine as unfair. It is impossible, constant goalpost moving.

> How is that false? Sex can be definitively established by a chromosome test.

> Welcome to the 21st century, this is false, sex nor gender can be determined by a chromosome test. This is a discarded invalid concept based on very poor understanding of the topic and no recognized institution of science in the world supports this claim. It may not be simple and easy to understand, but it is much more useful and correct.

> It's still valid even if you don't accept it and insist for more tests

> That is why it is not done as simply as you think it is, because those trying to discriminate unethically never accept it and insist more and more tests are necessary.

It is precisely what people are asking to definitively establish the sex.

Impossible task of proving?

Impossible task of proving something that keeps changing and becoming more and more difficult for the convenience of people that want to segregate women according to their personal beliefs of what is good.

A chromosome test proves the test definitively.

One, still no, you still have not found any institution that say chromosome testing proves sex or gender definitely, you can't find any because this is a mistaken belief you have.

Two, still no because it is not enough for the people that want to segregate women, they will insist that a certain hormone level, physical aspect, amount of muscle mass, etc. proves they are men. And even if you do everything (and eliminate women in every sense you may want to consider important) they will insist more testing is necessary because someone they don't like is allowed to compete.

The final point is that testing and inclusion, fairness, competitivity, etc. have to be decided with objective parameters that includes everybody that should be included and eliminate those that don't, it is everything but easy, even if people interested in discriminating want to pretend it is.

You are saying that sex can not be determined by a chromosome test?

Yes, and you are saying it as well when you failed to produce any institution in the world that repeat this belief you have.

It is precisely what people are asking to definitively establish the sex.

No, they are trying to discriminate against anybody that does not conform to their personal beliefs about what a woman is, including you with your mistaken belief that chromosomes definetely define sex, something that is not true since the last century.

virusrex

Today 06:43 pm JST

Impossible task of proving?

> Impossible task of proving something that keeps changing and becoming more and more difficult for the convenience of people that want to segregate women according to their personal beliefs of what is good.

> A chromosome test proves the test definitively.

> One, still no, you still have not found any institution that say chromosome testing proves sex or gender definitely, you can't find any because this is a mistaken belief you have.

> Two, still no because it is not enough for the people that want to segregate women, they will insist that a certain hormone level, physical aspect, amount of muscle mass, etc. proves they are men. And even if you do everything (and eliminate women in every sense you may want to consider important) they will insist more testing is necessary because someone they don't like is allowed to compete.

> The final point is that testing and inclusion, fairness, competitivity, etc. have to be decided with objective parameters that includes everybody that should be included and eliminate those that don't, it is everything but easy, even if people interested in discriminating want to pretend it is.

Lol you're trying very hard to muddle the issue.

A chromosome test and the sex will be established definitively.

You are saying sex cannot be established definitively.

At least now we are both clear.

Unfortunately not possible thanks to transphobe interference

The reality that men hold several advantages over women and wanting fair competition is not transphobe.

The condition these two boxers have is a very rare one yet two gold's in one sport?

Having XX and XY may not be perfect but it's a lot better than "self identifying" the IOC forced on boxing at this Olympics.