Players hope World Cup successes turn into greater support

I saw the US beat Japan, back in 2012 at Wembley. Cracking match.

I had a feeling we'd see them at the finals this year & well done to them. And yes, of course they deserve equal pay. Only an elitist who was born with a silver spoon would say otherwise. That, or a chauvinist.

I just don’t think these women should get a raise

Oh dear.

I think people are getting carried away with this year's particular Women's World Cup. It's been a great event, it got a ton of attention, and a lot of fans. Spectacular. But one event isn't enough to justify shifting the pay grade of an entire industry. If that support continues at a high level for years and years, then absolutely the women should be paid more. Otherwise, I have no issues with women earning less than men, if the revenues are unequal.

They're not suing the entire industry - they're suing only their own national soccer federation. In their last 4-year World Cup cycles respectively, the women generated more income for the US Soccer Fed than the men did. Essentially, the US soccer fed earned more money thru their women than thru their men. They want equity from their national federation.

The Dutch federation is already doing this - the Netherlands has set a goal of pay equity for its men’s and women’s teams by 2023:

https://nos.nl/wk2019/artikel/2287475-oranjevrouwen-krijgen-van-knvb-zelfde-vergoeding-als-mannen.html

I did and was specific

No.

I think it's simple. Athletes get paid accordingly based on the revenue they generate from fan support. Men's basketball brings in huge audiences, so they get paid more than women's basketball players, who bring in smaller audiences. It's not a matter of "sexism" - it's simple economics. In tennis, most of the major tournaments pay male and female players equally, and that's because women's tennis is an excellent "product" that draws a ton of fans and interest.

I think people are getting carried away with this year's particular Women's World Cup. It's been a great event, it got a ton of attention, and a lot of fans. Spectacular. But one event isn't enough to justify shifting the pay grade of an entire industry. If that support continues at a high level for years and years, then absolutely the women should be paid more. Otherwise, I have no issues with women earning less than men, if the revenues are unequal.

You didn't.

I did and was specific. Also, I think for the next generation of players, they should get more, but I don’t support THIS particular team in getting a pay increase. You may, that’s your prerogative and there are people that agree with you, I don’t and there are people agree with me on this issue.

So?

Then just leave it.

None of them went on anti-American rants.

I beg to differ, stepping on the flag is definitely one.

https://www.newsweek.com/piers-morgan-megan-rapinoe-white-house-world-cup-win-us-womens-soccer-donald-trump-1447882

https://dailycaller.com/2019/07/07/allie-long-megan-rapinoe-drop-american-flag-world-cup/

So again, I don’t support this particular team in getting a pay raise. I would never give any of my employees a peer raise if they were disrespectful, even if they do an outstanding job, it’s the entire package. If you have a great conduct and don’t do a performance or if you do a good performance and don’t have a good conduct, it amounts to the same thing when evaluating overall performance.

You are frothing at the mouth at opponents in your head again.

No, you just don’t like an opposing point of view, typically of liberals.

Oh, so you know everything I do now?

I never said or thought so, but I personally don’t believe that you do.

They can quit clubs, but they can't quit national federations - that's tied to one's nationality. In a way, a national federation is a monopoly - one can only play for 1 national federation at a time, and to play for another one, one has to become its naturalized citizen first, so it's not like freedom of movement.

But they don't have to play for ANY national team. So yes they most certainly CAN quit the national team.

But they can't play for any other national team - that's the point. It's a means to earn a living (greater than the club income even) and exposure for better sponsorships - in terms of a national team level, it's the only one. It's like if the government is the only game in town, so if ya want to earn money, ya have to work for the government, while you're not allowed to work in other towns for other governments. (This is separate from club level where they have a choice.)

A national sports federation is an understandable monopoly --after all, nobody wants athletes playing for just any country they don't have ties to-- but a monopoly nonetheless. That's why the courts allowed the players' lawsuit to proceed - because if the players want to play at a national team level, they have no choice to play for that national team. It's effectively preventing a worker's right to earn a living (they're artificially capped at the club level without being able to proceed to a national team level).

Even if they "quit," the national federation still "holds" their rights (like a club holding a player's rights even if he/she doesn't play for them anymore, preventing him/her from playing for another club) because it's tied to his/her nationality. Players cannot just go to any other national team and play for them unless the national federation "releases" them in the form of another nationality. (But what if a born-bred player doesn't want to change nationality since all his/her ties are in this country?)

That's the reason the lawsuit was allowed by the courts in the first place - because the national fed is the only game in town in terms of the national team level. If the players want to work on a national team, they have to work for the one and only national federation. It's not like there's any other national team work in town.

Yes, it's not a usual work situation in a capitalist system; that's why it's allowed to proceed (when any other regular business wouldn't be in such a situation). So the case reasoning is valid according to the courts. Now the courts are determining whether the memo of understanding between the national fed and the players union is a valid labor agreement - but that's another matter.

I'm not asking about ease, I'm asking about why YOU, personally, don't want this specific team to be paid fairly.

I already explained the reasons. Most of these women are going to retire and I think their pay as such in the present time doesn’t need to be amended especially if they go on an anti-American rant on the field, off the field, go right ahead.

Obviously I know the answer:

I don’t think you really do.

.

The US women are mostly lashing out against the pay discrepancy with the US mens teams in the US. Their games are watched more but men teams attract higher sponsors and higher pay on virtue of being a man.

When it comes to the World Cup. The women receives a far less percentage of the profits gained during their World Cup compared to the men. The men’s World Cup generates more money and because of that, they will be paid more. But when it comes to the pot being a certain percentage of expected proceeds, men have a far higher percentage.

They should, but for one thing it won’t be easy, especially for this particular team with their comments, anti-American rants and Rapinoe stepping on the flags definitely didn’t help, now for the next future players it should be considered.

They not made any anti-American rants.

I'm not asking about ease, I'm asking about why YOU, personally, don't want this specific team to be paid fairly.

Obviously I know the answer: one of them was mean to your tangerine master. But you should be honest and upfront that you're upset that someone was rude to daddy.

They can quit clubs, but they can't quit national federations - that's tied to one's nationality. In a way, a national federation is a monopoly - one can only play for 1 national federation at a time, and to play for another one, one has to become its naturalized citizen first, so it's not like freedom of movement.

But they don't have to play for ANY national team. So yes they most certainly CAN quit the national team.

Why? They're massively more successful than the US Men's Soccer team.

Oh, without a doubt.

Why shouldn't they be paid the same? If anything, they should be paid more.

They should, but for one thing it won’t be easy, especially for this particular team with their comments, anti-American rants and Rapinoe stepping on the flags definitely didn’t help, now for the next future players it should be considered.

I disagree when it comes to this particular team

Why? They're massively more successful than the US Men's Soccer team. Why shouldn't they be paid the same? If anything, they should be paid more.

Regardless of either outcome, it appears that the U.S. women’s national team has a real case regarding the gender pay gap. In their last 4-year World Cup cycles respectively, the women generated more income for the US Soccer Fed than the men. Kinda like a worker generating more sales for a company than another worker and asking a pay raise due to being paid less than the other worker.

But even if a worker generates more sales and asks for a increase, the company doesn't have to give it to them, even if they are getting paid less than another worker who generates less sales. Then the worker has the option of quitting and going elsewhere.

They can quit clubs, but they can't quit national federations - that's tied to one's nationality. In a way, a national federation is a monopoly - one can only play for 1 national federation at a time, and to play for another one, one has to become its naturalized citizen first, so it's not like freedom of movement.

That's why they can sue their national federation - it's up to the courts now. And as mentioned, in US figure skating, the women also produce more revenue than the men, but prize money is distributed equally for both men and women. According to those in charge of US figure skating, it's to “do the right thing." The US Soccer Fed could just do it for the same simple reason - nothing more, nothing less, just "to do the right thing." The turning tide of public PR is on that side.

$4 million prize money compared with $38 million ??

The TV audiences for any of these games was huge. The England - USA game was the most watched sports event in 2019 so far in the UK I think.

This puts the women back in the early 1970s when players in sports like tennis and gold had to fight for recognition. Surely they deserve at least a quarter of what the men get? That would mean another doubling of their prize money for 4 years time.

The level of play and stamina really has improved across the board and nearly every playoff game if not all in the last 16 were really hard fought.

The transfer fee of a top woman Sam Kerr is $1 million compared with $200 million for the top men. Look for this to change radically over the next few years.

Equal pay maybe no but a quarter yes for sure

Regardless of either outcome, it appears that the U.S. women’s national team has a real case regarding the gender pay gap. In their last 4-year World Cup cycles respectively, the women generated more income for the US Soccer Fed than the men. Kinda like a worker generating more sales for a company than another worker and asking a pay raise due to being paid less than the other worker.

But even if a worker generates more sales and asks for a increase, the company doesn't have to give it to them, even if they are getting paid less than another worker who generates less sales. Then the worker has the option of quitting and going elsewhere.

Also the US women's professional soccer players agreement with the US Soccer Federation covers both the World Cup team and the Women's Soccer League. While the men's agreement is just for the World Cup.

That fact only applies to the American game and not all the other countries and teams which made up the WC.

And the American game is the focus of this article.

They should get paid more, despite what the sexist and racist Waters and others at Fox say.

Hmmmm...I disagree when it comes to this particular team, but overall and generally speaking, the women should get paid more.

In fact, it is proof of the utter shamelessness and bottom-dwelling of people like him that they are literally ANGRY the American women WON instead of losing.

No, it’s just annoying to millions of Americans that want to watch sports to escape the daily and frustrating world of politics. The only thing we have left that is free from politics is sports and the Justice warriors and PC crowd want to take that away from us as well? If these women can refrain from interjecting their personal politics and to the game, they would get a lot more support and I believe definitely a lot more money. What they are doing right now is turning themselves into a pariah.

Honestly, I have heard some MAGA morons saying they wish the US lost because the women were "unpatriotic"!

Everyone is entitled to their personal opinion, a lot of these people think that these women are the problem and that they are sick and tired of hearing their personal politics and how they have been treating the country as a whole, the flag and the president and a lot of people are angry about that and they have the right to their opinion.

Think about it... wishing your country loses just to teach a few women who exercise democracy is being "patriotic", as your president touts dictators, while them winning is unpatriotic. Unbelievable how stupid the Trumpers are.

I think for millions of people they feel the exact opposite of what you are saying about those that support this kind of selfish political and personal grandstanding.

How many of them do you see on here saying they are proud of the women? NONE.

cracaphat: "If a man loves football,but is not interested in the women's version,I'd guess that makes him sexist,no? Or if he disagreed with equal pay?"

How much does it say about you that you had to come on here with that comment to reassure yourself?

They should get paid more, despite what the sexist and racist Waters and others at Fox say. In fact, it is proof of the utter shamelessness and bottom-dwelling of people like him that they are literally ANGRY the American women WON instead of losing. Honestly, I have heard some MAGA morons saying they wish the US lost because the women were "unpatriotic"! Think about it... wishing your country loses just to teach a few women who exercise democracy is being "patriotic", as your president touts dictators, while them winning is unpatriotic. Unbelievable how stupid the Trumpers are.

History of women football will change with time, where won't be easy at this world moment. I don't support any country but I support the women football players who are struggling with the national association, or with FIFA, the country football management in clubs, the political involvement to winner(Trump is). Time will tell... when the equality will come with men football depends on what will be universally attractive to public, to they be there at stadiums and see their matches, I feel too early to show now or soon, but their activity to future world women football is essentially important . Equality with men will be the hardest barrier to be this sport the most famous ans supportive sport in the world. At least I can understand first world doesn't mean the strongest team in the world, only this USA women national team is...I'm with U.S. star Megan Rapinoe who said. "It's time to move that conversation to the next step."

The US women aren't suing FIFA - they know they can't do anything against FIFA. But they can do something regarding their US Soccer Federation. The case is in the US courts now - the courts will decide whether U.S. Soccer’s memo of understanding with the players union is a valid labor agreement; dates for potential action on the EEOC complaint have yet to be determined. They're asking for equity from their soccer fed --not from their clubs, not from FIFA-- just from their national soccer federation.

Regardless of either outcome, it appears that the U.S. women’s national team has a real case regarding the gender pay gap. In their last 4-year World Cup cycles respectively, the women generated more income for the US Soccer Fed than the men. Kinda like a worker generating more sales for a company than another worker and asking a pay raise due to being paid less than the other worker.

This already has an effect on the Dutch federation - the Netherlands, the rising women's power who just lost to the Americans in the World Cup final, has set a goal of pay equity for its men’s and women’s teams by 2023:

https://nos.nl/wk2019/artikel/2287475-oranjevrouwen-krijgen-van-knvb-zelfde-vergoeding-als-mannen.html

It's worth noting that in US figure skating, the women also produce more revenue than the men, but prize money is distributed equally for both men and women. According to those in charge of US figure skating, it's to “do the right thing." The US Soccer Fed could just do it for the same simple reason, damn what FIFA does. The turning tide of public PR is on that side.

I fully support women getting paid more.

Then send them some of your money.

The fact remains that they have a union and a collective bargaining agreement that they negotiated and approved. No one forced them to agree to the contract and no individual player has been forced to play. If they don't like the terms of the contract they don't have to accept the job.

Except every 4 years with the World Cup and the Olympics, women's professional soccer in the US has significantly less fan support. And without fan support there won't be lucrative media deals or a high level of sponsorship.

And it isn't sexism. AAA male baseball players in the US don't make anywhere near what major league players do and the teams don't have the level of fans or sponsorship.

It comes down to the level of play and long term fan support. And women's soccer in the US can't compete with men's soccer in either category.

I fully support women getting paid more. I can’t speak much for other countries, but as an American, our women’s teams have always been far more recognizable than the men’s teams. Soccer has always been one of the leftover sports for men in America and one of the primary sports for women.

In my lifetime, women’s soccer has had many recognizable faces. For the men’s teams our most recognizable player is David Beckham and he isn’t even American.