soccer

Premier League clubs to stop taking knee before every match

48 Comments
By Jitendra JOSHI

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48 Comments
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Great, I'm glad it worked and racism is over.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Don't start something you can't finish.

They're effectively admitting that the issue is not serious enough for them to continue with the charade and they'd rather get on with their lives.

-1 ( +10 / -11 )

Good !

People are sick of being told what we should or shouldn’t care about.

I’m against animal cruelty, so how about the players get down on all fours to support this cause

15 ( +19 / -4 )

Too,their are black people taking an active step against racism,by bringing racist to justice

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

The "No Room for Racism" campaign will continue.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

This is not really about minorities in general,it about players, having to endure racist taunt such as bananas,thrown at them,no American athlete will ever racist taunt, without some immediate response

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

But sections of the crowd at England games booed the players when they took the knee, prompting an angry response from the national team manager Gareth Southgate.

As opposed to the players trying to make some statement during a sport, the league should more powerfully enforce its policy against racist taunts and the like from the many fans that attend these events. Racism is deeply embedded in UK culture and this should not be tolerated anywhere.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

 Racism is deeply embedded in UK culture and this should not be tolerated anywhere.

Says an American where the taking the knee began. The birth of the BLM movement was because of cases like George Floyd. Those cops with long prison terms now.

Racism should not be tolerated anywhere, including in the US.

The article is about the premier league which is English, not the UK. Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland have their own leagues.

The premier league is the top league but there are three other divisions in English football. There are hundreds of none league clubs and Sunday football.

I never experienced any racism in the UK when I lived there.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

RedstormToday  12:16 pm JST

Says an American where the taking the knee began.

I can't comment on racism in the UK being an American, but you, as a Japanese can? You do see how silly that is, don't you?

The birth of the BLM movement was because of cases like George Floyd. Those cops with long prison terms now.

Relevancy?

Racism should not be tolerated anywhere, including in the US.

As I noted. You agree with me now then.

The article is about the premier league which is English, not the UK. Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland have their own leagues.

Oh, so all the players in the Premier League are English? And all the spectators are English?

The premier league is the top league but there are three other divisions in English football. There are hundreds of none league clubs and Sunday football.

Cricket is also a sport played in England, just to stay on your irrelevant point.

I never experienced any racism in the UK when I lived there

Wait--this article is about the premier league, which is English as you wrote above---but now you want to talk about the UK?

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

The "No Room for Racism" campaign will continue

Yes, as it should.

I think the idea of observing it on specific days is better. Overdoing it can make it seem like a hollow gesture. We don’t want it at the level of continually making the sign of the cross, reciting pledges or singing silly anthems.

Just childish.

Anyway, let the best league of the greatest sport in the world begin.

Can’t wait. Best show in town.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

painkiller

how long did you live and work in the UK?

I lived and worked there for many years. Worked for a Japanese company after I studied for my professional Business English.

If you had the experience of living there you would have known that the premier league is English and not British/UK football.

If you live in a glass house do not throw stones.

English Premier League teams must have at least eight “homegrown” players on their squad. In addition, they may include up to 17 “non-homegrown” players up to a maximum of 25 players on the squad.

Since Brexit European players need a work visa.

The spectators of the English Premier League are worldwide including America and Japan. Fans attending the clubs and games are very mixed. English, yes. British yes. Europeans and other foreigners living there yes. Tourists visiting yes.

I must have missed the bit about cricket in the article.

You are the one who mentioned the UK, remember?

"Racism is deeply embedded in UK culture"

You wrote English culture. Irish culture. Scottish culture. Welsh culture. Manx culture. Channel Islands culture.

You scored a home goal.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

RedstormToday  12:43 pm JST

If you had the experience of living there you would have known that the premier league is English and not British/UK football.

Never worked there but as Cardiff City and Swansea City are located in Wales, what does that do with your "premier league is English" argument?

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Jimizo

Can’t wait. Best show in town.

Depends on which side of the park, wink! wink!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Looking forward to Liverpool's continued success, which has been partially due to the American ownership of the team, which has been in place since 2010, as the team was in deep debt but the Fenway Sports Group has turned it around to make it one of the most valuable football teams in the world.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

The picture. Why isn't Emmanuel Dennis kneeling?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

painkiller:

‘Never worked there but as Cardiff City and Swansea City are located in Wales, what does that do with your "premier league is English" argument?’

They’re an anomaly.

England, Scotland, Wales all have their own Football Associations (all under the auspices of UEFA) governing football and overseeing leagues (all the way down to amateur, weekend, kids) in their respective countries, for clubs in their own countries. And the international bodies generally object to cross-border or ‘multi-national’ tournaments other than the ones they themselves organise. (Way back they rejected a tentative plan for a combined league in the Low Countries, or something like that).

But Wales is a small country and football was not necessarily the ‘first’ sport there, and their larger clubs - Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport (maybe I miss one) are exceptionally allowed to compete in the English league structure.

In conclusion The Premier League is the top English league - but sometimes one or more of those Welsh clubs compete in it. You can decide for yourself how that impacts your debate with Redstorm Today!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Looking forward to Liverpool's continued success, which has been partially due to the American ownership of the team, which has been in place since 2010, as the team was in deep debt but the Fenway Sports Group has turned it around to make it one of the most valuable football teams in the world.

Guess you do not know the previous owners were also Americans and very bad for the club. George Gillett and Tom Hicks.

Forbes has put a valuation on Liverpool – $4.45 billion or £3.6 billion. But it is only worth that much if they decide to sell.

The success of a club like Liverpool is only possible because of the hundreds of people involved.

The Cymru Premier, known as the JD Cymru Premier for sponsorship reasons, is the national football league of Wales. It has both professional and semi-professional status clubs and is at the top of the Welsh football league system.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Marc PennToday  01:41 pm JST

In conclusion The Premier League is the top English league - but sometimes one or more of those Welsh clubs compete in it.

It is an English league, with zero requirement that any player for a team be English, and which has teams from Wales, and England--that is correct isn't it?

wallaceToday  02:00 pm JST

Guess you do not know the previous owners were also Americans and very bad for the club. George Gillett and Tom Hicks.

Forbes has put a valuation on Liverpool – $4.45 billion or £3.6 billion. But it is only worth that much if they decide to sell.

Guess you didn't read my comment thoroughly or you would have read the phrase which has been in place since 2010.

In other words, of course I knew--I also know you had to look it up in Wikipedia.

Forbes has put a valuation on Liverpool – $4.45 billion or £3.6 billion. But it is only worth that much if they decide to sell.

As I wrote, one of the most valuable football teams in the world.

The success of a club like Liverpool is only possible because of the hundreds of people involved.

As I wrote, Liverpool's continued success, which has been partially due to the American ownership of the team, 

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

English Premier League clubs are required to have 8 English players in the squads of 25.

When it comes to Liverpool I don't need Wikipedia.

Chelsea was recently sold in a deal worth $5.25 billion (£4.25 billion).

Fenway has been great for our club and a new stand is under construction to increase the fan capacity to 61,000.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Honestly thought it was a decisive gesture that did not help the situation. I recall FIFA stopping the England players from wearing the poppies on the shirts in honour of the fallen soldiers. Something not quite right there….

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The picture. Why isn't Emmanuel Dennis kneeling?

Dunno. I remember Zaha didn’t kneel either.

Some here in the past seemed to think they knew why players kneeled or didn’t kneel. Maybe they researched why each individual player did what they did, but I doubt it.

It was usually the types who whined about virtue-signaling while virtue-signaling.

Types you ignore.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

wallaceToday  02:29 pm JST

English Premier League clubs are required to have 8 English players in the squads of 25.

Wrong.

No requirement for 8 English players.

Each club must have at least 8 "homegrown" players on their squad.

And those 8 do not have to be English by citizenship.

In simple terms--players can qualify as "homegrown" irrespective of nationality.

To make it easy, from Wiki:

Currently, to be classified as homegrown one must be on an English team for at least three years before the age of twenty-one

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

The homegrown rule states that a player must have played for three years before reaching 21 years and does not have to be English. No club can produce 8 homegrown players that way.

In practice, this means a club that does not have eight or more homegrown players is obliged to name a squad smaller than 25.

Brexit complicated the matter. Clubs can no longer sign players from the European Union under the age of 18.

With players needing to feature for an FA-affiliated club for at least three years before turning 21, this excludes many foreign players from homegrown status.

Last season Liverpool had seven homegrown players.

However, the potential sale of Sadio Mane to Bayern Munich should offset Nunez’s arrival, while Divock Origi’s departure has ensured that Liverpool is slated to have 16 non-homegrown players next season, one short of the upper limit.

A Premier League club is allowed to sign a maximum of 25 players in the squad. However, a team can sign as many U21 players as they want.

Out of the 25 players, there can be only 17 'non-home grown' senior players. So the rest eight must be 'home-grown' players if a team needs to fulfill the maximum quota of 25. A non-home-grown player can be of any nationality and age.

There are eight English players in Liverpool this season.

Homegrown players are; Joe Gomez, Jordan Henderson, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Caoimhin Kelleher, James Milner and Nat Phillips.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The debate has drifted away from the point. There is considerable cynicism in the UK that this change is neatly timed to avoid kneeling in Qatar, so that what was meant to be the expression of a political principle has been dumped for political expediency.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

wallaceToday  03:33 pm JST

The homegrown rule states that a player must have played for three years before reaching 21 years and does not have to be English. No club can produce 8 homegrown players that way.

In practice, this means a club that does not have eight or more homegrown players is obliged to name a squad smaller than 25.

Brexit complicated the matter. Clubs can no longer sign players from the European Union under the age of 18.

With players needing to feature for an FA-affiliated club for at least three years before turning 21, this excludes many foreign players from homegrown status.

Last season Liverpool had seven homegrown players.

However, the potential sale of Sadio Mane to Bayern Munich should offset Nunez’s arrival, while Divock Origi’s departure has ensured that Liverpool is slated to have 16 non-homegrown players next season, one short of the upper limit.

A Premier League club is allowed to sign a maximum of 25 players in the squad. However, a team can sign as many U21 players as they want.

Out of the 25 players, there can be only 17 'non-home grown' senior players. So the rest eight must be 'home-grown' players if a team needs to fulfill the maximum quota of 25. A non-home-grown player can be of any nationality and age.

There are eight English players in Liverpool this season.

Homegrown players are; Joe Gomez, Jordan Henderson, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Caoimhin Kelleher, James Milner and Nat Phillips.

Just to reiterate my point, in the Premier League, there is zero requirement that any player for a team be English.

That's 100% accurate, right?

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Racism is deeply embedded in UK culture.

The first country in the world to end slavery. You talk utter clap trap. There is no Racism embedded in the UK. Speak for your own country.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

TokyoJoeToday  07:48 pm JST

The first country in the world to end slavery. You talk utter clap trap. There is no Racism embedded in the UK. Speak for your own country.

One of the biggest participants in slavery.

I'll let your fellow citizens speak for themselves:

Racism in the UK still rife, say majority of Britons

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/16/racism-in-the-uk-still-rife-say-majority-of-britons

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Some just post to stir it up. Is that just trolling?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The kick it out campaign, has always lead the field, long before taking the knee.

Together We can Change It

https://www.kickitout.org/

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Painkiller:

’Just to reiterate my point, in the Premier League, there is zero requirement that any player for a team be English.’

Correct. The Homegrown Player rule is meant to encourage the development of more English players but as you say, there is zero requirement that they - or any of the players in a club’s squad - HAVE to be English.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The UK is not perfect but:

’The World Values Survey is an international research program that studies "social, political, economic, religious and cultural values" including racial tolerance and racism. The WVS survey asks respondents from more than 80 countries….

The Top 10 Least Racist Countries in the World in 2021 - Best Countries Report

Netherlands

Canada

New Zealand

Sweden

Denmark

Finland

Switzerland

Norway

Belgium

Austria

Generally, the most tolerant countries in both studies were Scandinavian countries, Latin countries, and the United Kingdom and its former colonies (Australia, Canada, and New Zealand). In contrast, the least racially tolerant countries (Qatar, Serbia, Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka) tended to be located in Africa and Asia. There were also outliers. For example, although other former U.K. colonies landed near the top of the list, the United States ranked 69th out of 78 countries in 2020…’

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/least-racist-countries

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Marc PennToday  10:39 pm JST

Painkiller:

’Just to reiterate my point, in the Premier League, there is zero requirement that any player for a team be English.’

Correct. The Homegrown Player rule is meant to encourage the development of more English players but as you say, there is zero requirement that they - or any of the players in a club’s squad - HAVE to be English.

I was just surprised that some diehard fans were not aware of this,

Or, were not able to acknowledge it.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Redstorm...

I never experienced any racism in the UK when I lived there.

I literally spat out my coffee on reading this. Thank you, you made my day with the funniest comment in weeks.

You were joking right?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

wallaceAug. 4  02:29 pm JST

English Premier League clubs are required to have 8 English players in the squads of 25.

Completely wrong. Although some might support such a nationalistic rule, thankfully it does not exist.

When it comes to Liverpool I don't need Wikipedia.

Since Liverpool is part of the Premier League, maybe consulting Wiki will provide you with the correct information.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The purpose of the Home Grown Rule was to encourage clubs to hire more English players but there is a loophole so it did not happen entirely. The majority of Home Grown players are British/English but not all.

Brexit has introduced new restrictions and no EU player can be signed under 18 years. There will be no new EU Home Grown players

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2137974-premier-league-home-grown-rules-explaining-epl-player-quotas

Except for Caoimhin Kelleher, who was born in Ireland the other Home Grown players in Liverpool FC are English born.

Homegrown players are; Joe Gomez, Jordan Henderson, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Caoimhin Kelleher, James Milner, and Nat Phillips.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Mr Kipling

I lived in the UK for many years and had no personal experience of racism or discrimination.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I lived in the UK for many years and had no personal experience of racism or discrimination.

So that means there is no racism in the UK? Your personal experience does not mean that you can extrapolate it to everyone’s personal experience. I lived in UK for one year and faced more instances of racism (mostly subtle but some overt) than I faced in my 8 years in another Asian country which was not my homeland. Some of them were in the SGI-UK (since you are a Soka member). 

Whatever be your personal experiences, those are just that, your experiences.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Mr Kipling

I lived in the UK for many years and had no personal experience of racism or discrimination.

May I ask your race?

And do you have any disabilities? For example, blind or deaf?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

EvilBuddha

I did not state there was no racism or discrimination in the UK. I did not extrapolate my personal experience to anyone else's experience.

I made a very similar statement based on my personal experience of many years. I am also nonwhite, non-British, and Asian.

There are millions of people who don't experience racism or discrimination directly.

Not all foreigners living here in Japan experience racism or discrimination.

Mr Kipling

Japanese and your other questions are too personal to answer.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Maybe folks who claim that there is no racism in the UK have never been addressed as ‘wogs’. Full form ‘Wily Oriental Gentleman’ who speak good English and think they can integrate with the white majority. All meant to be good natured British humour of course.

Or the P word which drunk English gentlemen throw at some Asians after having one too many at the local pub.

Of course, this article is about EPL but the recent incidents of racism in cricket in the UK are anyways well documented.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

EvilBudha

Maybe folks who claim that there is no racism in the UK

Which posters made that claim?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

EvilBuddhaToday  07:16 pm JST

Maybe folks who claim that there is no racism in the UK have never been addressed as ‘wogs’. Full form ‘Wily Oriental Gentleman’ who speak good English and think they can integrate with the white majority. All meant to be good natured British humour of course.

Or the P word which drunk English gentlemen throw at some Asians after having one too many at the local pub.

Of course, this article is about EPL but the recent incidents of racism in cricket in the UK are anyways well documented.

Spot on.

RedstormToday  07:45 pm JST

EvilBudha

Which posters made that claim?

Basically you with your claim you never experienced racism in the UK. Obviously you could have pointed out you have either seen instances of it or had heard of it but did not experience it first hand; otherwise there was no reason for giving your personal "experience".

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

painkiller

you claimed racism is deeply embedded in UK culture. So please inform us which personal experiences you had with racism and discrimination.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

RedstormToday  07:59 pm JST

painkiller

you claimed racism is deeply embedded in UK culture. So please inform us which personal experiences you had with racism and discrimination.

Do you have a different claim?

But don't take my word. Read the article on which you are commenting and some others' views about racism related to the Premier League:

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/10/football/football-racism-manchester-city-troy-townsend-fred-spt-intl/index.html

And the UK in general:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/16/racism-in-the-uk-still-rife-say-majority-of-britons

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

so you have never had any personal experience of racism or discrimination in the UK. How about in your country US or even in Japan?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

As far as personal experiences go, I have relatives in the US who have never faced racism from white people, but have faced racism from other Asian immigrants to the US. 

I don’t claim that there is no racism in the US and there is in UK, but only that personal experiences are very subjective to draw conclusions.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Evil Buddha

so I should not post my personal experience especially when it’s different from posted by another. So one poster in Japan claims many years of personal experience of racism and discrimination like Antiquesaving, and another poster like cleo who has lived here for decades claims no experience of racism or discrimination.

People are capable of deciding from their own experience and what they know about it. I would never claim any country is free from racism or discrimination.

I make my personal judgments based on my experience.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Redstorm..

Japanese and your other questions are too personal to answer.

Thanks for the reply, I have been with Japanese in bars and restaurants in the UK. They didn't notice the discrimination and racism either. I did.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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