rugby union

Australian rugby star Folau calls Christmas, Easter 'man-made' traditions followed by 'heathens'

21 Comments
By WILLIAM WEST

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21 Comments
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Ah I see! Must be a Jehovah's Witness. Not orthodox Christianity.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Another guy who clearly cherrypicks and manipulates things from the Bible to fit his narrative. I guess he also thinks he is a saint but can't even see the walls of the glass house he's lived in all his life.

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But Australian Rugby League Commission chairman Peter Beattie said Folau had failed the sport's character test and would not get a contract.

Is Beattie prepared to admit that the vast majority of the world's population would also fail this "character test"? Most parts of the world are still deeply religious (Africa, Middle East, South America, Caribbean, etc) and would agree with many of Folau's beliefs.

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Helix... Does the vast majority of world christianity reject Christmas and Easter? Only the tiny minority of Jehovah's Witnesses do.

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He does have a point. I’m an atheist/heathen who fornicated while drunk at Christmas parties, ate chocolate eggs on Easter Sunday, made pancakes on Shrove Tuesday and had fish and chips on Good Friday.

I take his point but he should stop dissing these festivals. You ignore them you miserable sod.

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It's a shame the Waratahs have a bye this weekend in the Super Rugby. Otherwise Folau would have been busy training this week, with presumably no time to commit career suicide by Instagram!

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The fact that the CEO of the Wallabies major sponsor is gay would have nothing to do with the sacking... sure.  Old saying... don't bite the hand that feeds you.

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But Australian Rugby League Commission chairman Peter Beattie said Folau had failed the sport's character test and would not get a contract.

You know there's something seriously wrong with you when you fail nrl/most footy codes 'character test' lol (most of us drunks, fornicators etc usually pass with flying colours, phew!)

Good decision, poor -yet great- choice of words (gave me a good chuckle).

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Helix... Does the vast majority of world christianity reject Christmas and Easter? Only the tiny minority of Jehovah's Witnesses do.

You've asked an answered your own question, but you haven't really addressed my point. The majority of the world's population hold just as strongly to religious beliefs which have become deeply unpopular in the western world in the past 30-40 years. How tenable is it to devise a character test which excludes the majority of people on this planet? Tolerance is a two way street. People need to be able to express their inner most deeply held beliefs without having their livelihoods destroyed.

I take his point but he should stop dissing these festivals. You ignore them you miserable sod.

The fans are equally free to ignore Folau's private social media accounts. Nobody is forced to follow them and it's enough to say that the clubs he plays for do not endorse his views, as any reasonable person already knows.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Folau should be allowed his right to shoot his mouth off for the sake of freedom of speech and "religion". As long as he does not personally harass anyone. People who may be offended by his remarks should just ignore him if they can't enlighten him. Folau's "religious" prejudices should not disqualify him from doing what he does best: playing Rugby League, the greatest team sport in the world.

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Helix... the majority of the world's population probably does hold these deep religious views... but the issue is a) his interpretation of who goes to hell and how, and what "drunk" or "adultery" means (for Catholics, divorce and remarriage is adultery) are widely disagreed on. Especially considering that Protestantism is fractured into about 25,000 different denominations, and more importantly b) he broke the rules of his boss/company/contract.

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@buzzyboy

more importantly b) he broke the rules of his boss/company/contract.

If your view is that employers should have the right to fire workers and terminate contracts for saying that gays and atheists will go to hell unless they accept Jesus (which is the controversial comment Folau made), are you prepared to grant that same right to a religious employer who might wish to fire atheist workers who dare to deny the same claim? Do you realize what a dystopian world you're inviting if you allow the policing of personal speech outside of the workplace? Maybe you're lucky and none of the opinions you hold are socially unpopular, but try to imagine if that wasn't the case. Also, the rules here (the "character test") seems extremely arbitrary and open to any sort of interpretation. If it's upheld, it basically allows the employer to fire you for any unpopular opinion.

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Helix... Athiests can't work in Catholic schools. Not can civilly married gays. I'm fine with that. Their rules.

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"Nor can..."

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You've asked an answered your own question, but you haven't really addressed my point. The majority of the world's population hold just as strongly to religious beliefs which have become deeply unpopular in the western world in the past 30-40 years. How tenable is it to devise a character test which excludes the majority of people on this planet? Tolerance is a two way street. People need to be able to express their inner most deeply held beliefs without having their livelihoods destroyed.

How do you define ‘deeply held beliefs’? Are you talking about religious beliefs? I hope you are not falling for the old ‘I don’t dislike homosexuals, god does’ nonsense.

How tenable is it to devise a character test which excludes the majority of people on this planet?

Very tenable. If you own a company in a country with more progressive moral standards, you don’t have to particularly care what people living in countries with less progressive moral standards think. I have no problem discriminating against what people think. You choose your beliefs and you’ll be judged on them.

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@buzzyboy

Helix... Athiests can't work in Catholic schools. Not can civilly married gays. I'm fine with that. Their rules.

Well, I'll take your word on that but I think the rights of religious institutions to discriminate in this way has yet to be fully resolved. My understanding (and I'm happy to be corrected on this) is that most places limit the enforceability of overly broad employment contracts to only those clauses which have a direct bearing on your ability to performance the actual job. So a contractual requirement to be a Catholic might be enforceable in a priest's employment contract, but would be void against a janitor at a Catholic School. As far as Folau is concerned, none of his statements seem to affect his ability to perform on the field.

@Jimizo

How do you define ‘deeply held beliefs’? Are you talking about religious beliefs? I hope you are not falling for the old ‘I don’t dislike homosexuals, god does’ nonsense.

Roughly, I would say it's a belief that is so strongly held and underpins someone's entire worldview that it would cause serious psychological harm to force them to suppress it or deny it. If a secular analogy helps, imagine if you were forced to say that 2+2=5 and that the earth is indeed flat.

I have no problem discriminating against what people think. You choose your beliefs and you’ll be judged on them.

I don't know what to say to that. It's far too judgemental for me. I believe in a degree of tolerance, mutual respect, humility, peaceful co-existence and the golden rule. We should, within reason, treat people how we would like to be treated if we were in their position.

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@Helix

I’m interested in your use of ‘a degree’ and ‘within reason’ and why you felt the need to use these expressions. I think killers and rapists don’t deserve tolerance and need to be locked away. I also think the idea of treating others as you would like to be treated isn’t really possible in all situations due to our natural hypocrisy and selfishness. Is this the kind of thing you mean?

As for bigotry, I don’t make excuses for it. There are religious people who ignore or reinterpret aspects of their religion which justify bigotry. Those who don’t, can’t claim divine cover for the bigotry they espouse. It is their own ‘deeply held’ bigotry, they own it and should be judged on it. As I posted earlier, the old ‘I don’t dislike gays, god does’ is a cheap and grubby way to crawl out and it deserves no respect. Wear your opinions with pride and try to justify them. I hope you are not implying that because this man is religious, his views should be treated with more respect.

I believe in tolerance, mutual respect and peaceful co-existence too. Criticizing those who don’t think that should be extended to all decent people is perfectly acceptable and companies and organizations have the right to expel those who espouse bigotry, and particularly those who want to spread this bigotry on social media.

If he wanted to keep his job in this climate and espouse these views, he could have espoused these views with the flock who share them.

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Might have had a few too many hits to the head in his rugby career. Pity as he is a great player and if Pocock is out for the RWC as well, the Wallabies' chances of winning go from miniscule to nano.

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Folau warns against homosexuality, atheism, idolatry, fornication, drunkenness, and lying. Does he also warn that we can't enter the kingdom of heaven unless we sell all we have and give it to the poor? It that we love Christ and hate our parents? Or that we cut our hand off if it causes us to sin (and other bodily members)? Or that we welcome strangers into our homes, visit prisoners in prison, and are judged on mercy, with no reference to faith or sexuality in one of Jesus' discourses? Does Folau also warn us of all that, hmm?

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Buzzboy.

 Does he also warn that we can't enter the kingdom of heaven unless we sell all we have and give it to the poor? It that we love Christ and hate our parents? Or that we cut our hand off if it causes us to sin (and other bodily members)? Or that we welcome strangers into our homes, visit prisoners in prison, and are judged on mercy, with no reference to faith or sexuality in one of Jesus' discourses? Does Folau also warn us of all that, hmm?

Of course, thats the point! The Bible says in of ourselves we cannot be saved! We need help! Thats the basoc point of the Bible/gospel. We are doomed without God.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

bobfor2... true... but you ignored half of what Jesus said. How very Protestant of you.

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