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'Samurai Japan' return to heroes' welcome after WBC triumph

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Yeah, NHK devoted about 15min and showed LIVE welcome ceremony, it was good except they were not in Samurai costume or military uniform.

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Whatever people say about Japan, Ichiro or umpire calls, but Japan actually became WBC Champion and Japan is as result. Although all people feel something not good, or not enough about WBC games, this is baseball game. I think that champion team should enjoy WBC triumph enough. Then I wonder who wins in 2013.

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timesup:

do you know why people think wbc is a joke. WBC is just an international pro exhibition games that is sponsored by MLB. That's it. nothing more.

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American people maybe think that WBC is a joke, but all American players were very serious about games, I think.

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Same thing happens even on a high school level. There is an international tournament sponsored largely by MLB scouts. Most americans don't take it seriously, but the Japanese always come in as if it were the world series. I suspect this tournament has the same intentions, to lure international players to the Majors. International talent is good for business. Oddly, as they increase the international roster of the Majors, tournaments like can only get more and more competitive, as each countries will have more and more Major league players on their team. I'd love to see an international tournament where each country truly puts forward a team worthy of a major league world series.

Congrats on the win.

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I think that there is no problem even if Japanese always come in as it were the world series. Japanese always think that way but Americans do not think that way. Personally WBC is just another game but I want them to be champion after even any final of any game. Because it is a lot of fun to watch it.

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I am seriously SICK AND TIRED of AMERICANS saying:

1) "The WBC is a joke",

or

2) "Most Americans think the WBC is a joke,

and last but not least,

3) "The US did not have its best players on the team".

With regards to 1) and 2), a lot of people around the world have taken the WBC very seriously, and to call that a "joke" takes a lot of nerve, and to me, sounds like typical American ignorance. What ever happened to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"??? Isn't this one of the basic, golden rules of Christianity and/or the USA? If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all. A little constructive criticism aimed at Selig and WBC promoters would be acceptable. With regards to no. 3), by saying "The US didn't have its best players on the team" you are essentially saying that they would have done better if they did have their best players (why else say something like this?). That's like me losing a foot race wearing cheap sneakers against fairly equal opponents, then saying "I could have done better if I had worn my nike's"... naturally, the other runners would say: "THEN PROVE IT"

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I think the fanbase generally considers the WBC as an international exhibition leading up to the start of the MLB season. It's similar to the way the World Club Champioship in rugby league is seen as a precursor to the NRL season in Australia.

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typical American ignorance

i second that motion! not just with baseball either ;D

That's like me losing a foot race wearing cheap sneakers against fairly equal opponents, then saying "I could have done better if I had worn my nike's"... naturally, the other runners would say: "THEN PROVE IT"

Its called, being a sore losers and need to accept the loss. They should congratulate the winning team who obviously played the better game this time. ;]

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do you know why people think wbc is a joke. WBC is just an international pro exhibition games that is sponsored by MLB. That's it. nothing more.

I guess the Football World Cup is nothing more than a pro exhibition sponsored by FIFA, right? What a joke that is.

Oh wait, the US doesn't care about that one, either.

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^Which countries have actually taken this crap tournament seriously besides the usual suspects? If you're a baseball fan, fine ok... but for the rest of us? Give me a break, every channel I turn to its Samurai Japan this, Samurai Japan that.. thank god next week everyone will forget about it but at the moment its driving me nuts. And I'm really sick of hearing the "Samurai Japan" crap again and again.. if they played wearing armor and instead of bats used swords to chop the balls down.. then they would have my respect. Am I supposed to believe that the Bushido spirit helped Japan win a minor tournament?? Perhaps if the States gave themselves a nick-name like "Patton USA" then the power of the Sherman Tank would help them win?? Get your power phrases away from me

..if america had the better players, compared to the other teams, then there would be no equal opponents, and thats exactly the point people are making. Its obvious that most MLB teams and players didn't care about this tournament or else we would have seen an All-Star team instead of some no names and Derek Jeter..

btw, not american ;)

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I'm still waiting for a comment from Randy Bass...

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I think it's just down right RUDE, to participate in a tournament... ANY tournament, and not take it seriously. Rude to the organizers, rude to the other participants, rude to the fans, rude to yourself...

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Welcome home champs! I bet they are glad to be home! To you JT readers; I am an American who loved every inning of every game. Nothing is better than international play no matter the sport. Please stop lumping us all in one basket. Yes, the bulk of the U.S. is not interested in the WBC, that has been established. Move on and again congrats Japan!

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I actually think Samurai Japan concept was a clever idea. It rallied the team behind an unifying ideal (of course it is an idealistic romantic myth), but myths and symbols have power. Remember the movie "The Natural" with Robert Redford his "Wonder Boy" bat? When one of Roy Hobbes' home run flies is hit by a thunderbolt, the team adopts the thunderbolt symbol on their uniforms, and they start winning. OK, maybe it's just a fantasy story. But dreams have a way of inspiring people. I'm not saying they won BECAUSE they were "Samurai Japan" -- but there is no denying there is a psychological factor in victory, and the coach milked it for all its worth.

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At least you can thank Samurai Japan for a weekend of discounted burgers at MacDonalds!!

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..if america had the better players, compared to the other teams, then there would be no equal opponents, and thats exactly the point people are making.

Whether this claim is true or not is totally besides the point. The point I am trying to make here is that anyone can CLAIM anything, but it's all just hot freakin air unless you come up with the results. Without RESULTS, this claim is as useless as nipples on men. Now, as far as the Samurai nickname is concerned, I would have to agree and question the need for a nick name at all. But, then again there was the "Dream Team" for US hoops.

To FryingMonkey and other Americans: I'm sorry for the previously stated stereotype. Congratulations, Team Japan.

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How about game plays "Japan vs US" or "Korea vs US" in very very first same pool in next WBC? Not later game like this time. I'd like to watch the first game of them, not later game.

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Japan cared. Korea cared. Cuba cared. The Netherlands cared. I'm sure some of the other Latin American teams cared. If the US doesn't care, well they can just sit the hell out of the next WBC, and we won't have to hear about how the WBC is "just and exhibition" and other assorted whining. The USA is not the center of the sporting universe, and apparently not even the center of the baseball universe anymore.

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Tahoochi: You're getting far too worked up. In many cases people saying, "The US didn't have a serious team" is simply sour grapes and/or poor sportsmanship, but there are some legitimate points to the claims as well; hell, even Ichiro said he was disappointment the US didn't put forward a better team. The fact is that this is still a tournament in its infancy, and while I think it's fun for a lot of people, and for the teams in general, when it gets down to it it's not 'the real deal' (ie. the Major Leagues, for which they receive their money). There's too much money invested and too much risk for the franchises/teams if a player hurts him or herself. Look at Murata -- he's out for 6 weeks or so thanks to this tournament. Fortunately, Japan places a whole lot more emphasis on this tournament than the US and he will be forgiven.

Had it been Ichiro that were injured, for example, and couldn't play, the Mariners would be furious and possibly not allow him to play again in a WBC. The American teams won't risk it -- which shows beyond a doubt what they consider to be more important.

Again, some people on here are simply bitter, but there are still some facts to their claims.

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Japan is a good example of how a few players can make a difference. Their Olympic squad was basically the same group minus Ichiro, Daisuke, Iwanori and Iwakuma to name a few. In the Olympics they failed to even make the medal rounds but with better pitching with the addition of Iwakuma and Matsuzaka their pitching was basically lights out. And with Ichiro in their Iwanori in their line up them that much more a formidable team.

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A manager can make a difference too. Hoshino had his fascist grip on the team and the players lost motivation where as Hara though having some weird ideas was a part of the team and not above. He does not make many enemies. A gentleman, and have an easy going personality.

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Congrats to Japan. Kinda eases the pain that their completely unrealistic expectations for victory in the soccer World Cup bring them.

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sorry my bad.. i meant Iwamura LOL

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And sure Japan has won the last two WBCs but as history has shown being the team of the birth place of the sport doesn't guarantee the win.

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Tahoochi: "That's like me losing a foot race wearing cheap sneakers against fairly equal opponents, then saying "I could have done better if I had worn my nike's"... naturally, the other runners would say: "THEN PROVE IT"'

Actually, for your analogy to be even remotely correct it would have to be: 'I lose a foot race wearing cheap sneakers against fairly equal opponents, then I say, "I have a FRIEND who is a professional runner who could beat you and would probably have joined if he were not in training and didn't want to risk injury before his big run." Them saying 'PROVE IT' after would have no meaning, because the professional runner is not going to come out simply by the goading of someone who won a comparatively minor race.

I personally enjoyed the WBC, or what little I saw of it, and I don't really enjoy the regular MLB season at all save perhaps for the championships, but the teams are still not at all stacked evenly. You have some people who agree that a lot of Americans saying 'our team wasn't composed of the best' is simply poor losing, and yet some of the same posters who agree have admitted themselves that having a different roster than the Olympics (ie. having some pro players) is what helped Japan win.

I don't think the US would necessarily have won had they put the best MLB players in, nor do I think Japan would have faired any better in the Olympics with Ichiro and Matsuzaka. But the truth is we will never know. As I've also said in previous posts, with baseball rightfully out of the Olympics in 2016 the next WBC will take on more importance, and perhaps THEN we'll see a more even spread.

For now, no one can deny the Japanese did very well in the end (no so well in the beginning), and won the whole shebang. Let people who think this event is not such a big deal think so; not everyone is going to be won over. When the Japanese lose an Olympic Judo match they never admit the victor is superior, they simply say "Well, it wasn't REAL Judou! It was J-U-D-O!", and you're seeing the same thing here with baseball.

I DO think that this tournament, and particularly the final game (which was amazing!), has helped spread interest in baseball in general. The Netherlands, Australia, and Italy's performance will most certainly turn some heads in those countries, etc.

I don't think these athletes deserve quite the fanfare they're getting on coming home, and it's not such a big deal, but let them enjoy the moment and the Japanese in general enjoy theirs. We'll never hear the end of it, but so be it.

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Japan and Korea showed the world what a beautiful game baseball can be. Amazing defensive plays, no moaning to the umpires, crucial hits, team sacrifice. It was hard fought and fair, just as it should be.

Japan being back to back proper world champions set a good target for the rest of the world of where baseball is currently at.

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yokohama: "As a fan of baseball, Japan and Korea showed the world what a beautiful game baseball can be. Amazing defensive plays, no moaning to the umpires, crucial hits, team sacrifice. It was hard fought and fair, just as it should be."

To be fair, Jojima did 'moan' to the umpire by leaving his bat after batting, and was properly ejected. And are you telling me there was no moaning by Japan about calls?? (I mean the media and people, not merely the players).

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Wow... Japanese TV is devoting more time to Samurai Japan's return than they did to the actual WBC games, almost!

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I just need to get a couple of things cleared up here, because there are some mixed messages:

Ahem... So, Japan has proven they are the World Champions through this tournament. The Olympics have no meaning because Japan could not have their 'major' players, and having their major players here made all the difference and proved they are the best. Oh, but the US not having its best players has no meaning, and Japan are the rightful champions of the world. Have I about got that right, now?

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Them saying 'PROVE IT' after would have no meaning, because the professional runner is not going to come out simply by the goading of someone who won a comparatively minor race.

smithinjapan: That is exactly my point; if the professional runner is not going to compete in this international competition, then why even mention it??? CLAIMING better performance regarding ANY subject matter, whether it's a pro runner or a baseball team, is simply a mute point, ESPECIALLY if you are one of the teams that didn't win. This is regardless of the reason why the "better" team couldn't come out to play. Besides, how does that make the MLB players that DID play in the WBC feel when the people of their own country are saying this? Also, I happen think that IF the best MLB players participated in the WBC, they would NOT be a shoe-in for victory (10 years ago, maybe), BUT, I refrained from saying this until now because they DIDN'T participate, so it doesn't matter. It's just a really useless and counter-productive thing to say to the rest of the international competition.

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smithinjapan - your comment about the Olympics is very valid, and I remember some of the comments about the Olympics not being important because star players weren't available. That will always be the excuse from some supporters of teams that lose or fail to perform to expectations in a tournament.

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I should also agree and admit that Japan using the same excuse for not winning in the Olympics is unacceptable as well. Like I said before, to me, it's not right for the losing team to use such excuses or make such claims.

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smithinjapan - your comment about the Olympics is very valid, and I remember some of the comments about the Olympics not being important because star players weren't available. That will always be the excuse from some supporters of teams that lose or fail to perform to expectations in a tournament.

I don't think so. I think the focus was more on Hoshino's failure or Hoshino's arrogance. But it's fun to see some "haters" out in full force during those times.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/olympics/view/cuba-beats-japan-4-2-in-olympic-baseball-opener

http://www.japantoday.com/category/shukan-post/view/japans-olympic-baseball-team-anything-but-harmonious#show_all_comments

http://www.japantoday.com/category/olympics/view/south-korea-wins-gold-in-baseball#show_all_comments

http://www.japantoday.com/category/olympics/view/japan-falls-5-3-to-s-korea-for-2nd-loss-in-baseball#show_all_comments

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will japan ever win 1st place in the baseball world cup?NOPE. How bout this year? NO! pretty pathetic since baseball world cup has been around about 40 years.

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current top 10 baseball powers in the world ranking The top 10 from IBAF World Rankings

Cuba Korea Japan USA Chinese Taipei Netherlands Mexico Canada Australia Puerto Rico

Full point details - http://www.ibaf.org/fileadmin/user_upload/...kings_March.htm

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Let the Japanese enjoy the win.Let's face it, they have so little else to fuel their sense of superiority.

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Wow Oyaban, is that really an accurate list? I can't believe Australia ranks as high as nine!!! In Australia, how many people would really be interested in the WBC? Baseball is hardly like a major sport over there. From what I've seen on the tv, they can play baseball just by looking at some of the wins they've had over major teams ... but ninth??

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I'm really happy that Japan won the WBC, but I won't go so far to say as they're the best in the world, only that they were the best in this tournament. You're only as good as your last win. Some of you guys need to chill out and relax. It's only a sport.

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will japan ever win a gold medal in olympics? NO!! FYI Korea always dominate japan in international competition. It's like 8wins to 4 loses. Korea had just 1 mlb player and japan have like 6?? and they still were about to beat japan for the 3RD time in the same tournament! and japan had 50 year head start on baseball development (their national sport) on Korea and still gets owned by Korea consistantly. japan won WBC, so what.Do americans or the rest of the world even care about WBC? WBC is just a pro exhibition game with different nations. Will Japan ever be gold olympians and win baseball world cup??NOPE!

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Being the WBC champions should be no more or no less important than being the Olympic champions. Just as it is in other sports, like boxing (which has three legitimate championship belts: the WBC, WBA, and IBF), being the WBC champion carries weight, but no more weight than being the Olympic champion. I'm sure Korea wanted to "unify" the championships by winning it, but to end up being the runners-up to me (as well as being the current Olympic champions) signify that Korea should be ranked slightly ahead of Japan in terms of international baseball rankings. It's the same as in soccer/football; international competitions like the World Cup, the Olympics, and continental championships like the Euros and Asian Championships all carry weight in determining world rankings. As such, being Olympic champions should carry weight as well in determining the world rankings of baseball. In fact, in the first ever International Baseball Federation rankings, Cuba was first, the U.S. second, Korea third, and Japan fourth. It will be intersting to see if and when they come out with a more current ranking of the teams.

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japan won WBC, so what.Do americans or the rest of the world even care about WBC?

Dominican Republic cares. Cuba cares. Venezuela cares. Puerto Rico cares. Japan cares. And most importantly, KOREA CARES, A LOT. "De Han Min Guk!!" ♪ "De Han Min Guk" ♪

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Update: I've just noticed an article showing the second edition of the IBAF (International Baseball Federation) rankings.

Cuba Korea Japan U.S. Chinese Taipei Netherlands Mexico Canada Australia Puerto Rico

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/story/2009/03/25/sp-baseball-rankings.html?ref=rss

According to the article, major tournaments like the WBC, the World Cup, and the Olympics carry more weight, while they also take into account junior, youth, and world university competitions.

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is it just me or is that the same list? thanks all the same!

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Sorry, I've read back on the previous posts and noticed that oyaban has already posted that list. Thanks for posting that oyaban, and sorry for putting it up again. I don't know how I missed that.

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nigelboy: "Dominican Republic cares. Cuba cares. Venezuela cares. Puerto Rico cares. Japan cares. And most importantly, KOREA CARES, A LOT. "De Han Min Guk!!" ♪ "De Han Min Guk" ♪"

So you're happy more that Korea lost than Japan won. Typical of the Japanese mentality -- lose to a team like the US or Cuba and it's not so bad. Lose to the Korean's and it's a source of national shame. How very sportsmanlike of you.

As to you're claim that people complained more about Hoshino than anything else for the Olympic failure (and loss to the superior Korean team), that's yet more excuses, even aside from the fact that you're wrong. Anyway, I did find it funny that while the posts about Korea winning gold are erased from the archives, the files you posted links to are still there... hmmm...

Tahoochi: "Also, I happen think that IF the best MLB players participated in the WBC, they would NOT be a shoe-in for victory (10 years ago, maybe),"

I said exactly the same thing in my post, followed by 'but we'll never know'. No one, as I went on to say, is a shoe-in for anything in sports, and that applies to the loss in the Olympics as well and the calls of "If Hoshino weren't coaching we would have won!", and if "Ichiro were in it we would have won", etc. There's no guarantee, and no way to know anyhow. The reason people mention the fact that a lot of MLB stars aren't playing is in part because some are very upset about Japan winning, and others are simply stating a fact. Again, you ignore the fact that Ichiro said himself he wished the US team had better players and performed better.

Anyway, this is getting boring. People like yokohama and nigel don't see the irony in calling people who question the validity of the WBC or the performance of teams other than Japan as 'Americans or japan-hating gaijins' (interesting distinction, by the way!). Their extreme reverse bias blinds them to their own fear of other cultures. What's worse is that they don't see that most people who point out the fact that the US did not field their best players still congratulate Japan on the win.

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Tahoochi: Didn't see your last post (the shorter one), sorry. We are both in agreement that any excuses for why a team lost are pretty pathetic. I don't cheer for the American team one iota, though admittedly seeing them in the final makes it more fun (especially when it's hosted there!), and I'm happy Japan won, but some of the posts and excuses people are complaining about on the Japan-side are EXACTLY the same ones made by themselves in the Olympics, and THEN some. Hence, my posts.

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One thing I do love about this country is that when their nation does well and all the back-patting, political 'the world loves us so we are great!' comments are out of the way, the egos are pushed aside, and the extremely bias media quiets down a bit, you see the positive effect of a win -- the kids.

The weather has been righty wonky today, but while it was bright and sunny I saw kids of all ages, and both genders, in full-force batting balls (in parks where you're not supposed to, but who cares?), playing catch, and having a great time. If a win can inspire that kind of ardour in kids and such inspiration, then I couldn't be happier. I'm just going to keep my TV off for a while and turn my head when I pass McDonald's so the crap part of the Japan win doesn't pollute the feeling.

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"...and I'm happy Japan won..."

Right (smirk)

"Japan vs. Korea will bring out about 13,000 or so"

Wrong again expert....40.000 more showed up. Small detail though.

"I'm just going to keep my TV off for a while.."

Please don't forget your PC.

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roomtemperature: "Wrong again expert....40.000 more showed up. Small detail though."

Yes, well, I notice you have your hindsight glasses on. I fully admit to being surprised by the attendance, and have more than once said that in retrospect, while I worried about two Asian nations facing off in the final might be detrimental to the continuation of the WBC in the future, the excitement of the final match more than compensated.

As usual, you choose only to see hatred and post rubbish, even when I'm being more objective than usual. I said I am 'happy Japan won' and I meant it. My entire basis for criticizing them in previous games was that they were relying solely on their pitching and Ichiro, and not doing enough as an entire team, and in the end they shook this lack of confidence off and played well. I would have been happier if Korea won, true, but it's not like it's one or the other in terms of support, since I'm not of either nationality.

But hey, you go ahead and poke that noggin of yours a little further into the ground. Won't bring about any lightening bolts to enlighten you, but it'll certainly allow you to keep up the denial. Enjoy!

Moderator: Enough of this nonsense.

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roomtemperature:

You still haven't explained why it doesn't matter that the American MLB players were not in full force because Japan is the best, but the same thing DID matter when Ichiro, Matsuzaka, etc. couldn't play in the Olympics and Japan lost. That was also addressed at you, as I knew you wouldn't be able to resist coming on here and gloating at something you had no help in accomplishing.

Anyway, fun to watch the kids play baseball out in the park at the same time as you guys make excuses as to why Japan is the best in the world but the Olympics don't matter, and why it doesn't matter the US team didn't field the best of American players.

Keep trying.

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"will japan ever win 1st place in the baseball world cup?NOPE. How bout this year? NO! pretty pathetic since baseball world cup has been around about 40 years."

Huh? There's a baseball world cup (must be up there with the curling world cup in terms of international prestige!)? Who the heck plays in that, high school kids? And you guarantee Japan wont win it this year, whatever it is? Whoop-di-do...

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Here we go on and on. For the first few days (its still relatively recent) I thought about the glory of Japan and Korea facing off in the finals, with USA and Cuba and Venezuala going home to nurse themselves. Then I read a comment by USA pitcher and he said "They outplayed us. We had a good enough line up to win. they just outplayed us." Sports is like that. O.K. for the short term, Japan did win, Korea was 2nd. Expand the formate over a season. Maybe they'll still win, but maybe not as much? In the NBA where games are night after night, even the top team at the beginning like the boston celtics are now being overtaken by 2-3 other teams near the end of the season. I'm not in any way denying that J and K teams have reached equal footing with the best in the world, but don't get TOO gloated over a win. Its only a win in one series. In Golf, even Tiger Woods doesn't win every time. And then today I was thinking, wait a minute. If Japan is nailing us to the wall about not fielding a better team, why is it that in Japan's other "national sport" they haven't had a grand champion Yokozuna since Takanohana....a decade ago? "Oh, we don't care about sumo anymore." Well, don't have it both ways. And in WBC III, maybe we'll see a younger USA team that studies the intricacies of Japanese pitching tendencies (fork balls, sinkers, sliders, balls diving just before they reach the plate) etc., and learn to be more patient for a pitch that comes into the strike zone. And maybe we'll have a pitching staff that will take it to heart to shut out the other side. And then in a best of series, what'll happen. Games on that's for sure.

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Thor: "There's a baseball world cup (must be up there with the curling world cup in terms of international prestige!)?"

That's how a lot of people I know view the WBC compared to the MLB.

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Japan is the greatest baseball country in the world. Americans should also be proud of their achievements. After all, they reached the semi finals playing on their home turf using biased American umpires. It is the best presentation ever. The truth of the matter is Japan and US is not on equal footing. Anyone who knows anything about baseball knows that Japan is a notch or two better than US. US has a lot of catching up to do.

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yokohamabaystar: We know you're bitter, but stop making up stories. In the world baseball rankings Japan is third, under Korea and Cuba. That's a fact, so suck it up.

"Anyone who knows anything about baseball knows that Japan is a notch or two better than US."

Hahaha... funny. Yes, everyone knows that a Japanese team stacked with major leaguers whom you said helped win this time since they couldn't perform in the Olympics (and yet it doesn't matter that the main MLB Americans could not this time!) against a team of Triple A American ball players. Sorry, but even if Japan IS a few notches above the US, it cannot be proven -- the only thing that can be proven is that the players who represented Japan did better than the players who represented the US in this minor tournament (not even a 'championship', but a 'classic').

Anyway, as Hotbox rightly pointed out:

"Cuba Korea Japan U.S."

Those are the rankings of the top four teams in the world. You'll notice, Yokohama, that Japan finishes third, just under Korea.

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So you're happy more that Korea lost than Japan won. Typical of the Japanese mentality --

Huh? In this tournament, Korea lost only to Japan, and vice versa. But I'm quite positive that you were rooting for Cuba and USA when they faced Japan. And knowing you, I don't see anything wrong with that.

As to you're claim that people complained more about Hoshino than anything else for the Olympic failure (and loss to the superior Korean team), that's yet more excuses, even aside from the fact that you're wrong. Anyway, I did find it funny that while the posts about Korea winning gold are erased from the archives, the files you posted links to are still there... hmmm...

I don't think I'm wrong there smitty. The fact is, people here on this site were out to get Hoshina for his arrogance. So naturallly, when Japan failed to capture the gold, majority of the posters were pointing at Hoshino more so than on the "use of MLB players" which was RARELY brought up at all.

And of course, the media criticized Hoshino for some of the decisions just as Korean media and their fans are criticizing Kim's decision of pitching to Ichiro or taking Tae Kyun Kim out for pinch running, or leaving Lim out there for so long. But I doubt you would label that as "excuses".

One thing about WBC versus Olympics is that both Japan and U.S. takes it more seriously for the former than the latter. On another thread, one guy mentioned that during the finals round, U.S. didn't have Chipper, Pedroia, and Youk but fails to mention that DeRosa, Roberts, and Dunn had a treamendous tournament. Another person mentioned that Korea didn't have Lee Seung Yeop. Are you kidding?? The so-called replacement had a tremendous tournament batting .345 with 3 homers and a tournament leading 11 RBI's and was one of only two unanimous vote getters for all tournament team.

On paper, Cuba supposedly had the most potent lineup but they were manhandled by the Japan's pitching staff. Korean pitchers handled the potent lineup of Venezuela which had Cabrera, Abreu, and Mags. Even Dominican Republic which had the likes of Papi, Tejada, and Hanly Ramirez was "checked" by an unemployed journeyman named Sidney Ponson. Ted Lily, Roy Oswalt, and Jake Peavy (all of whom are pretty damn good) all had ERA over 5 during this tournament. Would Cliff Lee, Sabathia, and Halladay would of made that much of a difference?

So yeah. Briging "America didn't send it's best player" to the table is fine if you can convince they would of faired better.

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nigelboy: "And of course, the media criticized Hoshino for some of the decisions just as Korean media and their fans are criticizing Kim's decision of pitching to Ichiro or taking Tae Kyun Kim out for pinch running, or leaving Lim out there for so long. But I doubt you would label that as "excuses"."

Wrong. I have clearly stated that both sides have given excuses, and both sides, when they do, look rather sad. The difference is people like yourself only see the excuses when they come from the other side, and do nothing but make them when they come from your own. Hell, in this WBC when Korea lost to Japan (first or second time, I can't recall, now), people were blaming Hara and saying what a freak he was for trying to get the batter to bunt late in the game. Now he's the hero of the year, since Japan won, and most of you seem to have forgotten you were getting ready to pin the blame on him (again, like with Hoshino). I don't care if you think people 'RARELY' blamed not having stars like Ichiro in the Olympics was the reason for the loss -- my point was that people did, and they did. Blaming it on other excuses MORE than that makes it no less an excuse.

I did root against Japan more than once, and with more than one team, and flatly stated that. However, I also stated several times that I was very impressed with the final game and how Japan pulled themselves together, and that in the end they deserved to win (hell, I even gave Ichiro credit!).

"So yeah. Briging "America didn't send it's best player" to the table is fine if you can convince they would of faired better."

Actually, I'm not. Again, though, my point was that there are people on here whining that some people ARE saying that they are convinced that's the case and not admitting Japan is the best, but those same people (or some of them) could find nothing but the same or similar excuses in past events like the Olympics. See what I'm saying? So when those people whine, I feel the need to point out that the complaining and excuses go BOTH ways.

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Yet another endless online debate in which people only see what they want to see. Let me add my two yen:

The clearest indication that the US didn't take the WBC seriously was in their choice of manager. Davy Johnson had a great career managing 4 teams, but he hasn't managed an actual major league baseball game in this century. By contrast, one of the main reasons Tatsunori Hara replaced Senichi Hoshino as Japan's WBC manager is that the former is a current manager while the latter is retired. No major league team in the US would have allowed its current manager to spend 5 weeks away from spring training as Hara just did. That, to me, is an indication of how seriously Japan took the WBC compared to the US.

All the talk about national psychology in the WBC is a bit grating. It is clear, however, that the Japanese are obsessed with establishing their supremacy in a game that was invented, popularized, and introduced to the world by the United States. Koreans, meanwhile, are obsessed with beating Japan. Why that's the case is in the eye of the beholder. I just hope the next WBC doesn't turn into yet another Asian grudge match.

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I'm tired of this thread. People are going to stick to their opinions regardless of what others say. It's just a shame that while some of us are trying to be more objective, some on both sides have to come on and insist that the Japanese are gods, or that they are simply lucky, etc.

I will end this with yet another (and yet another time you'll choose not to see it) congratulations to Japan. The return to Japan is over, obviously, but the limelight is still on these boys, so they should enjoy it.

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Hell, in this WBC when Korea lost to Japan (first or second time, I can't recall, now), people were blaming Hara and saying what a freak he was for trying to get the batter to bunt late in the game. Now he's the hero of the year, since Japan won, and most of you seem to have forgotten you were getting ready to pin the blame on him (again, like with Hoshino).

Dear Smitty:

I have about a total of 6 posts regarding anything related to WBC compared to your over 200+. So the term "most of you" does not apply to me. PERIOD.

And about excuses.

Criticizing a manager's decision IMO is not "excuses" when you can back it up with an alternative that makes sense. This is why I believe Kim's decision to allow Lim to pitch to Ichiro which COST the game and championship should be criticized. Does that mean Korea would of won if they decided to walk Ichiro at that time. NO. But for some people, they may just construe that as an excuse just as you construed Hoshino's bad decision as an excuse.

To Masswipe.

We get it. U.S. doesn't take it seriously. The game that "they" invented are no longer "dominated" by home grown Americans. If you look at the increase % of foreign born players in MLB, it's quite obvious. And after this tournament, it's going to increase more and more.

Twenty or so years ago, Japanese players were in awe of "Major League" ballplayers. Top tier Japanese players know they can play in the bigs (Aoki, Nakajima, Nishioka, Kawasaki) For some, it's become a sort of "chance to revive your career" for aging Japanese ballplayers. (Saito, Okajima)

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I wanted ot stand in the balcony area of Narita Airport and toss eggs on them as they came in.....

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"I wanted ot stand in the balcony area of Narita Airport and toss eggs on them as they came in....."

I wish you did. I really wish you did. Wouldn't that be fun to watch, bleu tiger.....ooppps sorry....that is blue tiger of course.

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nigelboy: "I have about a total of 6 posts regarding anything related to WBC compared to your over 200+. So the term "most of you" does not apply to me. PERIOD."

Really? 200+? I highly doubt that, but then I do know you are prone to exaggeration. Anyway, it does apply to you if even in a single post you were calling Hara's decision a bad call and saying that's what cost Japan the game. It's not about numbers, it's about content.

"Criticizing a manager's decision IMO is not "excuses" when you can back it up with an alternative that makes sense. This is why I believe Kim's decision to allow Lim to pitch to Ichiro which COST the game and championship should be criticized. Does that mean Korea would of won if they decided to walk Ichiro at that time. NO. But for some people, they may just construe that as an excuse just as you construed Hoshino's bad decision as an excuse."

You've lost me, here. I never said I didn't agree with criticizing Kim's decision to allow Lim to pitch, but I DO believe I said it was wrong to constantly use it as an excuse for why Korea lost. That would be like saying the whole thing rode on that fact and Korea would have won otherwise, which you go on to say may not have been the case. What are you talking about with Hoshino? Do you mean Hara? or are you going back to the Olympics? Again, criticizing Hara for the bunt call is fine and dandy, but my point was that people were using it as an excuse for why Japan lost, much the same way they blame everything (not criticize, but merely blame and make excuses) on Hoshino when they lost the Olympics.

It's fine to be critical. In fact, it's necessary. But there's a HUGE difference between making excuses and offering criticism, and my point is that there are those on both sides who cannot distinguish (or refuse to) between the two.

roomtemperature: "I wish you did. I really wish you did. Wouldn't that be fun to watch, bleu tiger"

Ahhh... and roomtemperature's signature 'I can't actually comment on the thread, and let's insult French!' addition to the conversation. So how many posts is that that you have not been able to actually say something on topic? errr... better yet, can you give us an example of ONE time that you did?

Seriously, while I know there are a number of people on here who are not thrilled with the Japan win, people who cannot actually congratulate the team they support by simply attacking others really are not helping anything but making the team's efforts look more foolish.

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Really? 200+? I highly doubt that, but then I do know you are prone to exaggeration.

OK. 140+ 147 to be exact. You got me there.

Anyway, it does apply to you if even in a single post you were calling Hara's decision a bad call and saying that's what cost Japan the game. It's not about numbers, it's about content.

Well then. It doesn't. Not a single post about Hara.

You've lost me, here. I never said I didn't agree with criticizing Kim's decision to allow Lim to pitch, but I DO believe I said it was wrong to constantly use it as an excuse for why Korea lost. That would be like saying the whole thing rode on that fact and Korea would have won otherwise, which you go on to say may not have been the case. What are you talking about with Hoshino? Do you mean Hara? or are you going back to the Olympics? Again, criticizing Hara for the bunt call is fine and dandy, but my point was that people were using it as an excuse for why Japan lost, much the same way they blame everything (not criticize, but merely blame and make excuses) on Hoshino when they lost the Olympics.

I think you're lost simply because you go out of way to assume that criticizing Hoshino/Hara=not giving enough credit to the opponents to your satisfaction=excuses.

Seriously, while I know there are a number of people on here who are not thrilled with the Japan win, people who cannot actually congratulate the team they support by simply attacking others really are not helping anything but making the team's efforts look more foolish.

Of course, then there are those who predicted the downfall of Japan are never to be seen on this board. (throwin...)

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