table tennis

Japan appeal after Ito, Hayata lose controversial final

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Sore losers.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

So is there video review or NOT in table tennis, sounds like there is......if so then why wasn't it reviewed.....seems bizarre to me

4 ( +5 / -1 )

They had played 4 games, were towards the end of the 5th, and they had the 6th set to play as well. Seems to me like they are fishing for an excuse.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

As usual, china has bought these countries.

but she wouldn't even look at the video

Because she knew she was wrong and didn't have the guts to admit it.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

The news this morning indicated that there is no video review in table tennis, so pointing to the video monitor to appeal to the judge is meaningless.

Ultimately, these type of irreversible, questionable calls are going to occur in any sporting event, so the best thing to do is to move on from it instead of dwelling on it to keep your mental state in check

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@Wesley

And your proof of this accusation is?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

So they didn't lose a controversial final. They lost a controversial point, and then went on to lose the final.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

BFCitien,

Thx, so if their is no review process its simply a call by the ump, then you MUST just move on regardless if they were right or wrong, this happens to EVERYONE who plays sport at sometime, DEAL with it!

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Sore losers.

I'm no tennis expert, but based on the scores, I won't say the claim that they might have won or at least drawn if the umpire made a different call there is outside credibility (if they were losing by a mile anyway, that might be a different matter).

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Wesley: "Because she knew she was wrong and didn't have the guts to admit it."

Ah, because you know, right? haha.

Love the sensationalist headline though. It wasn't controversial final, it was one point. They then lost the final.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Too bad there are currently no video reviews for table tennis, liken in the old days for baseball, soccer, tennis, and so on.

Hayata and Ito were the No. 1 seed and started out 2-0 so their disappointment is understandable, but this is one point in a best of seven match. 1 point out of the total of 107 points won in that match.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I'm trying to figure out how this one call was supposedly the point on which the whole match rested.

They lost the final 4-2. Not even 4-3, so while they may have won the first two games, they dropped the next 4 straight. Even the point in question didn't end the game they were in, and would have only made it 3-2 even if it had.

The Japanese players dropped 4 games in a row, plain and simple.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

 instead of dwelling on it to keep your mental state in check yep

exactly there will always be bad decisions made in sport, its inevitable, but they normally even themselves out over time. If you don't have the mental fortitude to let it pass and continue on then you really shouldn't be playing professional sports

2 ( +2 / -0 )

China has a strong influence on World Table Tennis Federation.  It is not fair to appoint a Chinese heritage judge for a China vs. Japan match.  Once North and South Korean teams were united a few days before a match against Japan.  China does anything to protect its top position.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

I'm trying to figure out how this one call was supposedly the point on which the whole match rested.

Try this, based on the scores only. The Japanese won R1 and R2. Then they lost R3 and R4. There are two basic reasons you can start losing when you've been winning. Either you have less stamina than the other side, so you performed worse later on. Or the opponents just changed tactics which you couldn't immediately adapt to. The fact they can claw back to a tie in R5 suggests the latter is the case.

So, at the point of the ruling, the tide was starting to flow back into the Japanese side. If we accept the premise the umpire made a mistake here, he not only gave one point to the Chinese, he also reset an advantageous flow - in essence, he gave the Chinese a chance to rally and demoralized the Japanese side. Since the last two games were relatively close, that could have been the entire margin right there.

exactly there will always be bad decisions made in sport, its inevitable, but they normally even themselves out over time. If you don't have the mental fortitude to let it pass and continue on then you really shouldn't be playing professional sports

I'll call this victim-blaming. Are you going to say that to someone bullied and died, by complaining about his mental fortitude? I think the Thin Skull Rule applies here.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I suppose you all think one foul in basketball would decide a championship as well. Momentum does change and this could have affected both sides with the ensuing booing. Do note that no point was decided but it was a do over. There were plenty of chances for Sayata and Ito to win, but they didn’t and I didn’t think they would.

My comment below is unrelated to the controversial call. Whenever I played against stronger players, I find they’ll let you win until you think you’re about to win then they start playing seriously. It’s like they spot you a game or two, or like the first three quarters of an NBA game

That’s what it seemed like in this match I watched from the beginning to the end and not just the news highlights. You never saw the all out forehand slams that the tall Chinese girl delivered until things started to get serious.

It may have been adjustments but they knew what they were doing. She’s hitting back slams that curve like a whiffle ball. The ball hits Sayata in her stomach. A player the level of Sayata has plenty of time to put the paddle on the ball especially with the paddle held close to the midsection. The Chinese girls were holding back until the 4th quarter.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Calling for a video review when it is crystal clear to the players and Japan Table Tennis Assoc

that there isn't video review smacks of sore losers or feeling of entitlement.

There are many instances in major competitions, Olympics, Asian Cups that Japan had complained

and had decisions reversed or their complains looked into.

Remember the penalty shootout at the final of the asian cup when they were losing and had the referee change the goal of the shootout or Arai gets bronze in walk after controversy, appeals | The Japan Times

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/.../arai-earns-bronze-controversial-50-km-walk/

How about Morofushi being granted the gold medal after Japanese officials alerted and pressured the IOC that Adrian Annus hammer winner had provided someone's else urine sample for the test after the finals.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

 If we accept the premise the umpire made a mistake here, he not only gave one point to the Chinese, he also reset an advantageous flow - in essence, he gave the Chinese a chance to rally and demoralized the Japanese side. Since the last two games were relatively close, that could have been the entire margin right there.

But the umpire didn't 'give' a point to the Chinese. The umpire called a let, which called for a second service, with no point awarded either way. The Chinese team then won the following point, when the Japanese team could have won the point just as well.

So no, the umpire did not 'reset an advantageous flow,' or anything as such. Nor am I accepting that the umpire made a mistake. We have the word of the two Japanese players and the Japanese team. That's it.

And if you're so demoralized after a 'do-over' in a sport that you end up losing the rest of that game, and the next, and hence the whole match, then perhaps the first thing you need to work on is mental fitness.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The scenario was presented as follows:

In the fifth seesaw game after each won two games apiece, with the score tied 9-9, the officials called Hayata's first service a "let" for touching the net. Ito and Hayata, who thought they had won the point

So, in other words, if the Japanese version is correct, they should have gotten a point there. The umpire's decision voids that point, on grounds that the net was touched. You can't say a redo nullifies the disadvantage inflicted here, and I don't think saying a point was given is excessive.

Suppose we were rolling dice. You roll a six. I find some reason to say your six doesn't count and you must roll again. Does the fact you might roll six again on a re-roll mean my act was harmless? In fact, this is even worse than that because your redo serve will be weaker and more readable because you can't void away such things as muscle fatigue or memory or psychological damage at suffering an adverse ruling.

Nor am I accepting that the umpire made a mistake.

In fact, neither did I. However, in such cases, I find it more interesting to, while waiting for more information to roll in, to defer to the scenario as presented to look at it through "law". If this scenario is correct, what should we conclude, and so on...

if you're so demoralized after a 'do-over' in a sport that you end up losing the rest of that game, and the next, and hence the whole match, then perhaps the first thing you need to work on is mental fitness

I'll disagree here. Maybe it shouldn't happen, but it does. Reality is that the championship is supposed to be a closely fought high-stress event, and anything adverse can worsen the overstress and cause a degradation in performance which given a close opponent would be the end. Suppose I trip you just as you start in a marathon and your knee gets scraped (maybe not enough to even really draw blood). Not a serious injury, and I only cost you a few seconds in a 4-hour event. 

However, while those few seconds probably are insignificant over 4 hours, unless your opponents are significantly below your level, that little scrape will bother you sufficiently to kill whatever chance you had for a good time. There are limits to how well one can "ignore injury", be it physical or psychological.

=

Of course, perhaps Quercetum is right in suggesting that the Chinese team was the better team (he almost certainly knows tennis better than me). Maybe the Chinese team would or should have won anyway. But that's a separate issue from whether this is "harmless error".

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Mima Ito has experienced first hand that the Federation was corrupt when they had to suddenly face the united Korea team. Ito and others were very nervous and cried after winning the match.  Facing a corrupt judge is extremely demoralizing.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

That decision was very unfair, it was late, it was cruel in terms of timing, that was THE decisive moment in the match, and I am afraid both the umpires and the Chinese players knew it very well. But of course, you need to come to terms with the issue, because it cannot be made undone. But the Japanese did well to appeal, and at least we can talk about the truth!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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