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Trump feud exposes racial divide in U.S. sport

67 Comments
By Leo Mouren

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Trump is a racist so why would expect anything different from him in this context.

12 ( +18 / -6 )

Trump is a racist so why would expect anything different from him in this context.

Proof of this please?

-16 ( +5 / -21 )

Looks like freedom of speech, protest are outwayed by physical posture a song and a mass produced piece of cloth. Gotta love America.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

The problem with the anti-Trump movement is that it has surrendered patriotism to Trump. All Trump rallies and supporters heavily include the American flag and anthem, etc. to the point where even the USA USA chant is identified as being pro-Trump. Due to this, Trump can portray any anti-Trump movement as unpatriotic as they are in effect against these American symbols. The anti-Trump movement should make it the highest priority to reclaim the flag and associate themselves with a higher patriotism

3 ( +7 / -4 )

OK, first a few facts....(1) Trump did not demand anyone be fired. He simply said "wouldn't you love....to say 'your fired'?" No player was threatened. (2). First Amendment does not mean you can protest at work. Protest in your own time and not on the fans' dollar. (3) The majority of the US are against the protests.

-9 ( +7 / -16 )

(1) Trump did not demand anyone be fired. He simply said "wouldn't you love....to say 'your fired'?" No player was threatened.

He called them SOBs when he hesitated to condemn white supremacist protesters waving unpatriotic Confederate flags in Charlottesville.

(2). First Amendment does not mean you can protest at work. Protest in your own time and not on the fans' dollar.

The fans are paying for a game. They get a game. The fans lose nothing, not even their time.

(3) The majority of the US are against the protests.

The majority of the US was for slavery at one time. The majority is not always right.

16 ( +19 / -3 )

Trump should be fair and also condemn fans who are belligerent, drink, talk with each other, tweet on their smartphones, and take videos, while the national anthem is being played. At least these athletes are remaining silent. Too many drunk fans don't and you can clearly see them on TV when the cameras scan the audience. By not condemning all people who don't act civilly during the playing of the national anthem, he is stereotyping.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

@paradoxbox, his father Fred was arrested at a KKK rally as a young man. Years later, a young adult Don Trump and his dad were fined for refusing to rent to blacks in NY (vehemently supported by B4F here). In the past year, spouting "there's my black" in the audience without vetting the guy well enough to know he is an ex-cult member head case. Now appearing to only criticize black and biracial (Kaepernick) athletes. Let us know when he starts naming and shaming all the white owners, coaches, and players who have supported this protest.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

When do you start saying someone is white or black please ? What is the opinion of yellow people in here , Japanese or mixed Japanese ?

I believe that Trump is a bully, for anyone against him.

Personally, I don't appreciate mixing sports and politics.

There is time for each, especially when you are paid so much.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Long ago, the Supreme Court ruled that Flag Burning was a constitutionally protected form of free speech. This is exactly the same thing. It is this man in The White house that is unAmerican in his denying someone a political voice. Our forefathers were in every war in which the USA fought. They fought for freedom, The Freedom of Speech for one.  

That man disgraces the office.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Flags and anthems are meaningless. Salute a bit of cloth and mouth gibberish set to music ( America's anthem is a pretty decent ditty ). A love of your country should be judged by what you have actually given to that country.

Draft-dodging, job-shipping, tax-avoiding Trump should be judged on what he's given.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

Have always found American team sports landscape pretty unique and fascinating, very interesting article.

Agree with everything Coakley says except perhaps the "We have created a system of sports in the U.S. that reflects our society" bit when he tries to explain/justify why sports in the US are racially segregated. What/who does he mean by 'created', club owners, sponsors, the media etc? I tend to think that other factors (social, geographical, cultural etc) played a big role too. Reckon educationally underprivileged young white males born and bred in southern states are also less likely to play or watch NHL than other white guys from states which have a strong hockey culture, smaller communities, colder weather etc.

Imo the only us sport which has the 'white cracka' tag and where non-whites wouldn't feel particularly welcome is Nascar (and perhaps wwe?).

 Sports where fans are the more mixed are the NBA and NFL."

How about MLB? Always thought latinos, blacks, whites, Asians all love baseball (in the us, that is).

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

"Trump feud exposes media desire for racial divide in US sports". Fixed that for you.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

They want it so bad that CNN employees are tweeting out photoshopped images of what they wish others would wear but didn't.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ananavarro/status/913031363892215808/photo/1

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

Flags and anthems are meaningless.

Spot on. I find the fetishising of a flag very weird.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

I wonder if these players are taking a knee for the 3,000+ black men killed In Chicago (from 2012 to date) by other black men. THINK NOT...

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

@Vernon Watts, think again because high profile athletes like Dwayne Wade (Chicago native) who have lost close relatives to gun violence went on to start and fund programs to fight against this problem. What has the NRA or whatever right wing org you support ever done for Chicago victims?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

I wonder if these players are taking a knee for the 3,000+ black men killed In Chicago (from 2012 to date) by other black men. THINK NOT...

No, they're taking a knee because blacks are 5 times more likely to be killed by a cop while unarmed than whites, and a lot of people don't seem to think that matters.

What is it with you guys and your deep concern for Chicago? Yes, black-on-black crime in Chicago is an important issue, but so is income inequality, healthcare, education, gun, and on and on and on. Does a person have to speak for all issues at once or none at all? I swear, you guys hold football players to a higher standard than the POTUS.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

@Torafusutorasan. Here is some of the information your claim did not include (source: Washington Post which a left-leaning newspaper). "..the information available in the article made it difficult to figure out whether Trump’s father was directly involved in the melee or was simply a bystander who coincidentally found himself in the wrong place at the wrong time. Other persons were charged with various infractions ranging from felonious assault to disorderly behavior, but Trump wasn’t mentioned as having been cited for even minor criminal charges."

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@Torafufutorsan. And this from the NY Post (August 16, 2016). The Rev. Jesse Jackson once praised Donald Trump for being a “friend” who embraced “the under-served communities.”

“We need your building skills, your gusto . . . for the people on Wall Street to represent diversity,” Jackson, a civil-rights leader, said at a Rainbow Push Coalition event in 1999.

And at a 1998 event in front of the same organization, Jackson said, “I now want to bring forth a friend — well, he is deceptive in that his social style is of such, one can miss his seriousness and commitment to success, which is beyond argument.

“When we opened this Wall Street project . . . He gave us space at 40 Wall Street, which was to make a statement about our having a presence there.”

The Daily Caller unearthed the video of the former Democratic presidential candidate in the wake of Trump being accused by his political opponents of being “racist.”

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Excellent, MrBum

Hard to see how anyone could disagree, except a self-confessed bigot.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

If Trump were not so consistently, and publicly, pro Nazi and pro Klan, the rest of the nation would not feel that it needs to demonstrate its disgust with him.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

"Russian internet trolls pushing #TakeAKnee, #BoycottNFL to sow discord in US: Senator"

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/russian-internet-trolls-calling-takeaknee-boycottnf-sow-discord/story?id=50132807

Russian internet trolls are trying to stoke the controversy in the U.S. over NFL players kneeling during the national anthem by using opposing hashtags such as #TakeAKnee and #BoycottNFL, a Senate Homeland Security Committee member said today.

"We watched even this weekend, the Russians and their troll farms, and their internet folks, start hash-tagging out 'take a knee' and also hash-tagging out 'Boycott NFL,'" Sen. James Lankford of (R-Oklahoma) said at a hearing where FBI Director Christopher Wray testified about some of his agency's work. “They're trying to push divisiveness in the country. We've continued to be able to see that, we will see that again in our election time."

It's that renowned Internet Research Agency again, a Russian troll factory based in St. Petersburg:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency

It's a brand of information warfare known as "dezinformatsiya," that has been used by the Russians since at least the Cold War. The disinformation campaigns are only one active measure tool used by Russian intelligence to sow discord among and within allies perceived hostile to Russia. From interviews with former trolls employed by Russia, the point of their jobs is "to weave propaganda seamlessly into what appeared to be the non-political musings of an everyday person."

Former IRA employees have been sharing their experience. The Christian Post has a video of what it looks like inside the secret building:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/russia-troll-farm-spreads-fake-news-about-united-states-140200/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r_VAxvu4l8

So watch out what ya encounter in social media - these guys are being paid well to go on overdrive

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I can't definitively say that Trump is a racist himself, but his actions sure go over well with racists, don't you think? It's almost like he's pandering to them...

Which is ironic, given that the pro-Charlottsville supremacists, anti-BLM, anti-kneelers seem to think that the real divisiveness comes from people making a stand against racism.

It's like Marty and Doc arrived in a parallell time line where Biff is the big cheese...

6 ( +7 / -1 )

"NFL"   The kneelers are arrogant, obnoxious, ungrateful, pampered spoiled brats.  Fire 'em!

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

He called them SOBs when he hesitated to condemn white supremacist protesters waving unpatriotic Confederate flags in Charlottesville.

He did NOT call the players SOBs, he called Kaepernick an SOB. This is so systemic from the left, they always hear what they want to hear, please go and listen Veeeeery carefully and watch the tape, Trump did not pluralize the SOB comment.

The fans are paying for a game. They get a game. The fans lose nothing, not even their time.

You may not, but over 60% do not support these idiots and threaten to boycott future games if they don’t curb this nonsense.

The majority of the US was for slavery at one time. The majority is not always right.

That has nothing to do with what these loons are doing, they’re not slaves and judging by their salaries, they seem to think we (the fans) are slaves to having to listen and watch this spectacle by force and if they want to play to an empty stadium, so be it.

That man disgraces the office.

No, the Washington establishment does and in the worst possible way.

Flags and anthems are meaningless.

To you, but for many of us and for many that fought and died and have people buried underneath it, absolutely not.

Salute a bit of cloth and mouth gibberish set to music ( America's anthem is a pretty decent ditty ). A love of your country should be judged by what you have actually given to that country. 

Ok, that’s your personal opinion, you’re not American, so why would it mean anything to you? But for many of us it means everything and as an American, I take it extremely seriously.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Trump is a racist, so why is anyone surprised that it would take him days, and heaps of pressure, to denounce Neo-Nazis (later taking it back through other comments) who kill people, and then screaming "son of a b---h" about a black man who merely protests the national anthem?

In any case, it's funny to see him having taking an act that one or two players did, and weighing in to turn it into not only HUNDREDS of athletes, across sports, but most of the nation as well. He's only a great uniter in how much he's united people against him.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Serrano: ""NFL"  The kneelers are arrogant, obnoxious, ungrateful, pampered spoiled brats. Fire 'em!"

Actually, Serrano, the people "protesting" the kneelers are. And what's hilarious is knowing that they LOVE football and will have to keep watching despite the players LITERALLY saying "Bye!" to them when they threaten to boycott! hahaha. You'll watch, and you'll have no choice but to watch them exercise their rights to free speech.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Actually, Serrano, the people "protesting" the kneelers are

Yeah; did you see the footage of some fans (so-called) outside the stadium the other day, yelling "I haaaate you".

Bet you they wouldn't do the same towards the nazis in Charlottsville.

Brave "fans".

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Wrong again, Bass. There's no quote naming Kaepernick from Trump's speech in Alabama. Since he chose to be vague, we can interpret it as a threat to all protesting players and their moms.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Trump is a racist,

And you can concretely and positively verify this because you say so?

so why is anyone surprised that it would take him days, and heaps of pressure, to denounce Neo-Nazis (later taking it back through other comments) who kill people, and then screaming "son of a b---h" about a black man who merely protests the national anthem? 

Wait, so calling a Black man a SOB is racist? How? And if you call a White person a SOB what does that make you or if a Black person calls you a SOB what does that make him?

Please tell me, because I’m really confused.

In any case, it's funny to see him having taking an act that one or two players did, and weighing in to turn it into not only HUNDREDS of athletes, across sports, but most of the nation as well. He's only a great uniter in how much he's united people against him.

Yeah and it’s even more interesting that the fans are not putting up with this crap and are starting to voice their opposition to their opposition and I’ll tell you what, the fans will prevail in the end because we are the fans, we pay essentially their salaries and if they want to force us to watch this crap, then we just won’t watch them play.

And what's hilarious is knowing that they LOVE football and will have to keep watching despite the players LITERALLY saying "Bye!"

What on Earth are you talking about Smith??? Dude, sometimes you say the most bizarre things.

to them when they threaten to boycott! hahaha. You'll watch, and you'll have no choice but to watch them exercise their rights to free speech.

You really don’t know a lot about the fortitude and will of Americans when it comes to these issues it would seem.

https://theundefeated.com/features/nfl-viewership-down-and-study-suggests-its-over-protests/

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

He did NOT call the players SOBs, he called Kaepernick an SOB.

You're right, he used those words for just Kaepernick. My mistake. Does it make a difference? He still showing more disapproval towards the players than the Charlottesville white supremacists.

You may not, but over 60% do not support these idiots and threaten to boycott future games if they don’t curb this nonsense.

Like I said, the majority can be wrong sometimes. And boycotting future games is well within their rights. Let them do it.

That has nothing to do with what these loons are doing, they’re not slaves and judging by their salaries...

I wasn't saying the players are slaves... That would be dumb... I was giving an example of the majority being wrong... Jesus...

if the Dems get out of his way and with tax reform instead of wanting to keep them astronomically high and if they leave the markets alone and encourage growth, they will come back, but Dems are the party of welfare, so a flourishing economy means less entitlements for the Dems to campaign on and more time to hang out in the wilderness. Acorns anyone?

I don't even know where to start with this incoherent mess...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Wrong again, Bass. There's no quote naming Kaepernick from Trump's speech in Alabama. Since he chose to be vague, we can interpret it as a threat to all protesting players and their moms

Of course, he meant Kaepernick! Come on, what is up with you guys?! Who was the one that started this crap? Kaepernick, now, you can interpret anything you want in any manner or fashion, that’s ok and that’s your right, the left do that constantly, but you don’t have the right to mix words or distort them to suit your narrative. Now if you can prove that Trump was targeting other athletes (I don’t know how you would do that) then go ahead and be my guest, but you can’t and you know it. If he pluralized the SOB comment, you would have a decent and valid argument, but he didn’t do that, which means, he was targeting one lone individual nut job and that’s Kaepernick.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

To you, but for many of us and for many that fought and died

Some posters here were patriotic enough to enlist. They put their money where their mouths were.

Draft-dodging Trump put his money in other places.

Don't you admire the patriots who were patriotic enough to enlist, and feel a sense of suspicion towards those who didn't but pound their chests about a flag and an anthem?

I do.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

In my opinion pledging allegiance to the flag is very limited without liberty and justice for ALL. But not your liberty or mine at the cost of the others civil rights and freedom. I have always stood for the National Anthem as a US athlete and citizen. It doesn't make me necessarily a patriot. I love this country (USA). I would think most athletes living in the US do also. That which is in a person's heart (good, evil, racism, divisiveness ...whatever!) and gut usually just speaks out and sometimes acts out. What one decides to do, say and practice is who they are (police, citizens, presidents...whoever) good, evil and indifferent.

Trump just pushes all of the buttons to cause reactions and deflections. Buying time to change the system if allowed. A voice for whosoever he wants to game. In my opinion again, He's trying to weigh his benefits and consequences of his past, present and future. He's into himself so deeply now that he can help himself (literally). In some ways he is the catalyst to a long looming issue(s).

I'm sure there will be some rule changes for US athletes at all levels in the code of conduct agreements from their respective organizations.

This is all very predictable. Has reached a point to where dialogue is being forced.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Who was the one that started this crap?

Demanding equal treatment under the law ain't crap.

Repeating less and refusing to address them when called on it is.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

You're right, he used those words for just Kaepernick. My mistake. Does it make a difference? He still showing more disapproval towards the players than the Charlottesville white supremacists.

So so now all of a sudden we have to throw race in the mix of it...again?! It can’t be about Kaepernick being an idiot, it just has to be that he’s Black and Kaepernick is an interesting individual, his Black parents gave him up and he was adopted and raised by a White family, very privileged which is great and fine, but now he wants to flip it around and use his Black privilege to attack cops and depicting all cops especially if they are White as racists? The guy is a piece of work. I don’t care that He wants to protest, that’s his right and that’s good and healthy and I support his right, but there’s a time and a place for everything and just because you have the right, it doesn’t mean you have the right to infringe on someone else’s rights, that’s my beef. Do it in the locker, do it on some TV show, rally people to your cause, but sports are the last pastime and only thing we have left that’s devoid of politics and we now have to lose that as well? It’s unacceptable! There’s enough crap going on in the world and the last thing I want to hear about politics is in sports.

Like I said, the majority can be wrong sometimes. And boycotting future games is well within their rights. Let them do it.

Sometimes, but not in this case and the fans are letting them know about it and remember, there are more fans then there are players, millions of them and at first it was interesting, provocative, but now it’s annoying, distasteful, rude and repugnant, not to mention disrespectful to the people that gave up their lives for the flag and country.

I wasn't saying the players are slaves... That would be dumb... I was giving an example of the majority being wrong... Jesus...

Well, they are not wrong as ESPN is finally realizing and very soon the NFL players as well.

I don't even know where to start with this incoherent mess...

Now you guys don’t want to be responsible for your own creations?

Some posters here were patriotic enough to enlist. They put their money where their mouths were. 

I agree. So we are both on the same side, good to know, drop The hostilities please.

Draft-dodging Trump put his money in other places. 

How do you feel about draft dodging Buba? Does it annoy you as well? A legitimate question.

Don't you admire the patriots who were patriotic enough to enlist, and feel a sense of suspicion towards those who didn't but pound their chests about a flag and an anthem? 

I do.

Thats your personal opinion, but you’re not American, so I wouldn’t expect you to understand. I admire any American that fought and bled for his country or even served it and put his or her life on the line for us, be it in the military or other public services.

Demanding equal treatment under the law ain't crap.

You're right it’s not, just don’t infringe on my space when I pay my money to watch you perform, if not, then I will make sure you will suffer the consequences and hot you in the pocket. That’s my right as a fan and a consumer.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I admire any American that fought and bled for his country or even served it and put his or her life on the line for us, be it in the military or other public services.

Me too. Real patriots. These people walked the walk.

Anyone can salute a flag and sing a song. They shouldn't impress anyone.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Me too. Real patriots. These people walked the walk. 

Anyone can salute a flag and sing a song. They shouldn't impress anyone.

Yes, but for millions of Americans, the flag represents a lot of the freedom and sacrifices we made. No nation is prefect, we have our share of flaws, but the way I was raised and my family members that have fought and bled for this country, it’s unthinkable to desecrate and dishonor the flag or even the memories of the people that gave their life for it whether you were fought for it or not, but even more so if you did.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Yes, but for millions of Americans, the flag represents a lot of the freedom and sacrifices we made

Wrong pronoun. The sacrifices 'they', not 'we', made.

The majority of people did or do nothing for the freedom you talk about. They talk a good game but didn't want to involve themselves. That's fair enough. Just don't give us the patriotic chest thumping.

It sounds very hollow. Particularly from a draft-dodger who was no doubt having a ball while others fought, bled and died.

Plastic patriots. Ugh.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

NFL equals strong backs and weak minds, a tribe mentality. Stand or fall, most have no idea what the protest is even about.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Well, you’re not American, so it really shouldn’t bother you if they are, as you would call them plastic Patriots

I am and it does.

Words, which mean nothing, action and devotion mean, everything.

So, we can both agree that Donny's rhetoric means nothing considering his actions? Tubby Trump dodged the draft, those are his actions.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

"We have created a system of sports in the U.S. that reflects our society," Coakley said. "Eighty percent of the different U.S. sport teams in the last Olympics were either all-black or exclusively white. Sports where fans are the more mixed are the NBA and NFL."

In the NFL, around 70 percent of players are black, compared with 75 percent in the NBA.

Objectively, the MLB is the major sports league that most closely reflects US demographics. Honestly this comment is really crazy. Blacks are 13% of the US demographics, and being 70-75% of the NFL and NBA makes them 'more mixed'? Since when did diversity = more black?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

According to the Washington Post there were 730 police shootings resulting in death in 2017. Of those deaths, 32 were unarmed and of those 10 were black, unarmed persons. So there were 10 killings by police of black, unarmed men in 2017 out of a total of 730 killings ( or 0.01%) -- liberals will call that a police killing spree of black men.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@VW, and conservatives who were held back all through elementary school will tell us that 10 out of 730 is 0.01 percent. Don't often deal with big numbers, do ya?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

According to the Washington Post there were 730 police shootings resulting in death in 2017. Of those deaths, 32 were unarmed and of those 10 were black, unarmed persons. So there were 10killings by police of black, unarmed men in 2017 out of a total of 730 killings ( or 0.01%) -- liberals will call that a police killing spree of black men.

Bingo! Right on point.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." - Oscar Wilde. 

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" Samuel Johnson

2 ( +3 / -1 )

So more than one third of the unarmed people murdered by police were black, or twice what you would expect given US demographics? Even one is too many, and your attempt at minimizing it to 0.01% (which is obviously less than one person out of 730) are all a big bravo foxtrot bingo fail.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Correction: almost one third. Still terrible.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

“The American flag is the symbol of our freedom, national pride and history.”

-Mike Fitzpatrick

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Even one is too many, and your attempt at minimizing it to 0.01% (which is obviously less than one person out of 730) are all a big bravo foxtrot bingo fail

This is not a TeeVee show of the future. If you want to be a criminal you will pay. If you can't clean up your neighborhood, crime will spread.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I am not American but I know USA wel enough (lived there).

USA has still to overcome the matter of education for all.

Trump is just exacerbating what media love to show, the difference of thoughts depending on your race.

USA is one of the few country where you can make it to the top whatever your race is. Good.

It is also among the countries where money speaks too much. Bad.

NFL and NBA players are most of them with little education in my opinion and speak with their money power. Same for Trump intellectually speaking. Two wrongs does not make a right.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Everyone stood for the anthem and flag tonight. so I guess Trump was right after all just took them a little time to reflect and understand that all he was asking was for respect for our country and its symbols.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

*According to the Washington Post there were 730 police shootings resulting in death in 2017. Of those deaths, 32 were unarmed and of those 10 were black, unarmed persons. So there were 10killings by police of black, unarmed men in 2017 out of a total of 730 killings ( or 0.01%) -- liberals will call that a police killing spree of black men.*

@bass "Bingo! Right on point.!"

1) Let's assume these numbers are correct. 10 black people out of 32 unarmed people is 31%. Black people are around 12.5% of the US population. 31 divided by 12.5 is 2.48, so that tells us an unarmed person is nearly two and a half times as likely to be shot if they are black rather than non-black. Is that what you mean by "bingo, right on point!"?. I have not checked these statistics, I'm just pointing out that you don't seem to understand the basic maths of what you are commenting on.

2) A major issue that you are glossing over is that 'black lives matter' is not just about the number of the dead. It is about the subsequent judicial outcomes. Police officers killing unarmed black men/boys are rarely charged, and when they are charged the are almost always found not guilty. Tamir Rice was 12 years old. Two police drove up on him and one of them blew him away. The impact of that kind of event on a community cannot be understated. We are talking about the shooting death of any unarmed child by the law enforcement officers who are supposed to protect him. This does not need to happen hundred of times for it to be a problem.

3) Why do we always see people side-step into black on black killing? Nobody is saying they think this is not a problem. Where are the people saying that black on black killers should not be charged or should be let off with a warning? Violence in black neighborhoods is concentrated into certain areas and perpetrated by specific groups within the community. Most people suffering these high rates of gun violence are only too happy to see these shooters in jail. In fact, when they are caught, that is exactly what happens. None of this has anything to do with police officers shooting minorities and getting away with it.

"Criminals should be in jail!" (Everyone agrees with you!)

"There are lots of killings anyway so violent police officers should be let off!" (This one makes no sense and you know it!).

PS - When you spend a lot of time talking about police killing black people is not a problem because it only happens now and again, you make yourself look at worst cold and un-empathetic and at worst racist. Why does you think it is wrong that black people protest the killing of unarmed people? Ask yourself why you think that, because police do not kill the same number of black people as are killed by criminals, there is no issue, nothing to see, and no improvements to make?

When these comments are combined with certain other comments on this board about black people being "to blame" for their own "bad image" by looting and stealing etc., the underlying attitude these posters have towards black people becomes very clear.

Interestingly, these are also the people shouting "prove Trump is racist, prove it, prove it", so they obviously don't like people being called out as racists and know that racism if wrong. You guys need a mirror, to be honest.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Everyone stood for the anthem and flag tonight. so I guess Trump was right after all just took them a little time to reflect and understand that all he was asking was for respect for our country and its symbols.

Green Bay Packers QB Aaron Rodgers:

“This is about equality. This is about unity and love and growing together as a society and starting a conversation around something that may be a little bit uncomfortable for people. But we’ve got to come together and talk about these things and grow as a community, as a connected group of individuals in our society, and we’re going to continue to show love and unity, and this week we’re going to ask the fans to join in as well and come together and show people that we can be connected and we can grow together.”

“The messaging of this, unfortunately, continues to need to be redirected. It’s never been about the national anthem, it’s never been about the military. We’re all patriotic in the locker room. We love our troops. This is about something bigger than that: an invitation to show unity in the face of some divisiveness from the top in this country, and I’m proud of our guys. This has been a galvanizing situation for us.”

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The problem with Kaepernak's protest strategy is that he is purposefully attacking the one symbol that most Americans associate with the idea of America and it's values. He rejects the idea that the nations laws apply to everyone. He argument is that all of America is racist - which is a hateful slur. In his view despite how far America has come towards creating a more perfect union, the nation is irredeemable. Since the history of slavery and Jim Crow can never be erased, America as it is currently constituted must be erased.

The American flag is not a symbol of physical territory or anyone's particular culture of origin. It represents all of the people and the liberties and freedoms that make it possible for a biracial man to become president and for thousands of black football players to become millionaires playing football. The Kneelers are really disrespecting all Americans including regardless of race or any other demographic characteristic.

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We’re all patriotic in the locker room. We love our troops. This is about something bigger than that: an invitation to show unity in the face of some divisiveness from the top in this country, and I’m proud of our guy

This isn't about Trump's stupid and disrespectful statements about privileged pro athletes. Aaron Rodgers is under a lot of pressure to throw America under the bus in order to maintain his position in a locker room that doesn't look like him. So he comes up with the stupid idea for the fans to lock arms as if they should forget the slight by his teammates. The fans overwhelmingly rejected his misguided plea for abnesia.

Rodgers is well aware that most Americans associate the flag, and the Constitution it materially symbolizes, with those that guarantee the ability to live under it - that is the military, law enforcement, and emergency services. The Kneelers hates this about America as they see patriotism as an impediment to their goal of undermining individual rights (as opposed to group rights). 

It is well known that Kaepernik, and presumably a large segment of his former colleagues in the NFL, supports Marxist economic theory, communists such as Castro and his executioner Che Guavera are his heroes. He has even donated money to a group in support of the convicted murderer of a policeman. No one should be surprised by Kaepernik's efforts to drive a wedge between the races. I don't think Americans will put up with this for long. There is already a building backlash.

The most hypocritical aspect of this kerfuffel is the fact that the pro-Kneelers are demanding their right to protest while simultaneously complaining mightily when others assert their own right to do the same. They have a right to protest, that is unquestioned. They do not have the right to tell others that they cannot be offended by their purposeful provocation. That's freedom.

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Racial divide in US sport: "A black athlete only earns $61 million to a white athlete's $63 million."

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If there is a "racial divide," liberals are entirely to blame. Not conservatives.

That's because liberals (not all, of course, but certainly many) are known (even notorious) for accentuating skin color in so many situations.

It's liberals, not conservatives, who notice and prioritize skin color ahead of everything else about a person. That's probably why they're so quick to label as "racist" anyone who disagrees with them. Because they obsess about race.

Most conservatives don't do that. We don't accentuate or prioritize race or skin color. We either de-prioritize it or we don't even consider it at all.

To us conservatives -- most of us, at least -- people are people. Their skin color is, in most if not all situations, totally irrelevant.

It's liberals who like to bunch people and categorize people by race and skin color. That's actually the very textbook definition of racism ... or at least of racialism.

One exception is actor Morgan Freeman. Pretty liberal guy on most things, but on this whole race thing he's spot-on. He said the best way to eliminate racism is to stop talking about. Stop harping on skin color all the time. Just see a person as a person -- not a black person or white person or whatever.

Unfortunately, too many of his fellow liberals don't grasp that. They don't grasp that by constantly harping on race and prioritizing it, they're only perpetuating the very racial divide that they ridiculously claim to be fighting. Baloney -- inciting racial divides is actually what many liberals do best.

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Hakman: "If there is a "racial divide," liberals are entirely to blame. Not conservatives."

yes, we've heard this line of thinking many times: "if the liberals hadn't brought any of it up and just remained silent while minorites are oppressed there would be 'no problems'."

"That's because liberals (not all, of course, but certainly many) are known (even notorious) for accentuating skin color in so many situations."

When they should all know their place and keep quiet, right?

"One exception is actor Morgan Freeman. Pretty liberal guy on most things, but on this whole race thing he's spot-on. He said the best way to eliminate racism is to stop talking about. Stop harping on skin color all the time. Just see a person as a person -- not a black person or white person or whatever."

Yeah, except you forget one thing, BOTH sides have to see a person as a person. You can't go taking your time and saying "tehre are good people on both sides" when it's a group of nazis, then immediately start criticisng and dishing out hatred when it's black people, then ask black people not to talk about it, friend. When minorites are seen as less than people, that is something you most certainly bring up and put in the faces of those who think such, like Trump with ethnic minorites, immigrants, and clearly African Americans.

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It's liberals, not conservatives, who notice and prioritize skin color ahead of everything else about a person. 

in general, this is America's current problem with race. In the past Democrats and their allies in slave states and later the KKK wrote laws to discriminate against non-whites. These laws were the basis of their political power. They were ultimately overturned by Constitutional amendment and civil rights legislation. Democrats have never apologized for their open and incestuous association with the klan. Modern Democrats still use race as a political wedge through their strategy of identity politics which isolates people by race (and in other ways) in order to divide and conquer.

The national anthem protests by Kaepernik are an extension of identity politics. It seeks to drive a wedge between the races by harping on past injustices and thus achieve political power for the Leftists he represents. Kaeperniks goal seems to be to redefine the American governing system towards socialism in the misguided belief that being chained to the state is better than allowing people to rise and fall in society by their own merits. The allure of socialism is beyond comprehension as it always fails (Venezuela being the most recent of numerous examples). Americas own half hearted forays into collectivism are in shambles- with a $20 trillion debt Obamacare, Sicial Security, Medicaid, Medicare, etc are all unsustainable.

yes, we've heard this line of thinking many times: "if the liberals hadn't brought any of it up and just remained silent while minorites are oppressed there would be 'no problems'."

Minorities are not "systematically" oppressed in modern America. That is a slander against the country and all that it's flag represents. However people of all races are at times mistreated by the government (more unarmed whites are shot by police than any other group - that's an inconvenient fact). Unlike in the past, the only laws in America today that promote a racially discriminatory intent are specifically designed to favor non-white Americans based on the illogical and counterproductive idea that past discrimination can be rectified by more discrimination today.

Through the entirety of the American Democrat party's existence, race has been at the center of it's political and governing strategy. The only thing that has changed is the racial groups they seek to discriminate for and against.

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When they should all know their place and keep quiet, right?

Basically your argument is that those that are against what they perceive to be disrespectful of their values should just shut up and keep quiet. Is free speech in America only for the far Left?

Don't be like Trump and demand that everyone interprets this controversy only from your side. It is the far Lefts right to believe that people who feel truly grateful for their country should not be offended. It is also your right to believe that there is an organized and systematic effort on the part of law enforcement to murder law abiding black men. That's just your opinion. No one else should be bullied by false accusations of racism and claims of their own superior form of patriotism into agreeing with that point of view.

That is what is so damaging to American society by this choice of protest. Kaepernik and the other Kneelers are turning this into a 'you are with us or against us' choice. Trump has responded to this demand in kind. For that reason, I believe the far Left will suffer a rare defeat in the culture wars over this issue.

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The most hypocritical aspect of this kerfuffel is the fact that the pro-Kneelers are demanding their right to protest while simultaneously complaining mightily when others assert their own right to do the same. They have a right to protest, that is unquestioned. They do not have the right to tell others that they cannot be offended by their purposeful provocation. That's freedom.

It was fine that people are free to agree or disagree about anthem kneeling. It was when Trump used the pulpit of Presidential power to call for their firing - that's when he crossed the line with the NFL and NFLPA

Many of those extra kneelers were not kneeling because they agreed with the original kneelers' social views - they were kneeling in solidarity that no player should be fired for it, especially when the NFL Commissioner's Office (who works for the owners) actually agree with the players they employ - and they don't even like each other!

That was the their solidarity protest against the President trying to divide them - about not being fired for kneeling, the NFL and NFLPA agree with each other. The extra players, coaches, and owners were kneeling and locking arms for that

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It was when Trump used the pulpit of Presidential power to call for their firing - that's when he crossed the line with the NFL and NFLPA

I absolutely do not agree with the president for going after the players and the NFL the way he did. But American presidents do not have the power to fire football players. Obama however, did have the power to cause miners in West Virginia to lose their jobs. And thousands did.

Presidents should not add to the kind of intentional divisiveness from race baiting social activists like Kaepernik. That said I agree with every word Trump said about the disrespectful players for purposefully going after the symbol of America's democracy. No good will come of it - this isn't the 1960's. The players crossed the line in their actions in the eyes of millions of Americans - and Trump called them on it. All Americans have the right to criticize things they do not agree with. I am less concerned with unity among wealthy pro athletes who had their feelings hurt than with the unity of the nations people. That makes both Kaepernik and Trump morons.

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It was when Trump used the pulpit of Presidential power to call for their firing - that's when he crossed the line with the NFL and NFLPA

I absolutely do not agree with the president for going after the players and the NFL the way he did. But American presidents do not have the power to fire football players.

No, not directly. But US Presidents have hard and soft powers. Look what happened when he stirred people up

All Americans have the right to criticize things they do not agree with.

Trump should had just left it at that - let Americans criticize

I am less concerned with unity among wealthy pro athletes who had their feelings hurt

I do not understand this - the athletes didn't become rich until they got to the NFL

Does that invalidate what they experienced how they grew up before they got rich? They weren't always rich

Many people here now are doing well in Japan - does that invalidate what ya guys experienced before ya guys got to Japan?

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No, not directly. But US Presidents have hard and soft powers. Look what happened when he stirred people up

Agreed. But there is a big difference in saying a now wealthy pro athlete be fired for inappropriate behavior and other presidential actions that result directly in relatively poor miners losing their livelihood. Kaepernik doesn't have to work another day in his life. Trump has stirred things up but no player has been fired because of Trump.

Trump should had just left it at that - let Americans criticize

Very true. Many Americans have and continue to make their voices heard in opposition to the players slandering of all Americans as racist. Other Americans are expressing the opinion that America is indeed irredeemably racist. Trump has the right to say what he did but that doesn't make it right. Kaepernik made a similar mistake because he too has been inflammatory and disrespectful.

Does that invalidate what they experienced how they grew up before they got rich? They weren't always rich

No. But can you really make the case that a man making $100 million has been oppressed? Other Americans have been mistreated by the government. But Kaepernik is making the case that only black Americans are mistreated when FBI statistics say otherwise. Kaepernik made this into a purely racial issue when it isn't that simple. He has an agenda beyond his plea for his idea of social justice.

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Kaepernik doesn't have to work another day in his life.

What's ironic is that everybody keeps talking about Kaepernick; yet Kaepernick hasn't been talking

Trump has stirred things up but no player has been fired because of Trump.

Only because their NFL employers --many of whom supported Trump in the election-- publicly disagreed with him

But the fact that they had to go public with it illustrates how much pressure they felt Trump's action heaped upon them

No. But can you really make the case that a man making $100 million has been oppressed?

He could've been before he made that $100 million**. Most of these players are just in their 20s - they didn't even earn these monies until they left college - that wasn't that long ago in their lifetimes

[** NFL players don't typically earn 9 digits, unlike the other Big 3 sports MLB and NBA. The reason for that is the large rosters in the NFL. For example, the current NFL salary cap is $167 million, but that's divided over the 53-man roster, so by average that's only ~$3M per man. And if ya consider that the QB typically earns $20M-plus, that's $147M for the rest of 52 players (thus less than $3M per man). Most of the kneelers are not the stars but the rank-and-filers earning around that average, i.e. they're not earning as much as ya think.]

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