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World Athletics set to tighten transgender rules, lift Russia doping ban

45 Comments
By Luke PHILLIPS

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45 Comments

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Antiquesaving

I accept there can be sexuality and gender and they are not the same for some people.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environmentalaccounts/articles/whatisthedifferencebetweensexandgender/2019-02-21

You have not mentioned women who are transgender to males in posts about transsexuality even when not about sports. Why the one-sided?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

At least there are still men's and women's categories.

Represents the real world.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

wallace

Today 08:17 pm JST

What denial, you yourself have proven they are not actually women or men, your use of Cisgender shows you understand they are not really women and men because otherwise why do they and you need to point out real women and real men by using the invented "Cis"

Because you know that Transgender are not actually women or men as they claim.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

wallace

Today 08:22 pm JST

Antiquesaving

> your comments are constantly about males who are transexuals to women. You never mention the women who are transexuals to men

Because none are even close to replacing men in sports,

And I have never heard of one that hasn't undergone bottom surgery demanding to change in the men's room!

Haven't heard too many sudden female to male transgender inmates demanding to be in men's prisons instead of women's.

Funny how that is!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I still feel like this is unfair to intersex people. Women like Caster Semenya were assigned female at birth, grew up as women, yet they're being told they can't compete as women because they have some genetic advantage? I don't see how this is different to any other genetic difference like being tall, having big feet, big lungs etc. All completely advantageous in pro sports but inexplicably allowed.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Antiquesaving

your comments are constantly about males who are transexuals to women. You never mention the women who are transexuals to men.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Antiquesaving

   That does not tie in with your many opposition comments even denying that transexuals can even exist. That is the same as people who deny gays. Your denial is where you stand.

> Again inventing things.

I don't need to invent when you have posted numerous posts, more than many others, expressing your strong opposition to transexuals. That is your position.

They are alive they exist, they are not really women or really men.

There is your denial again.

Gays and lesbians are not delusional, they may like the same sex but the are not under some strange belief they aren't men or women.

More denial

Saying I like brunette or blondes or saying I like men or women is one thing,

Really

Saying I am a woman but male genitalia is very different.

Sex and gender are different.

Next we will be told some identify as dogs and cats, that is the direction we are heading, Trudeau the head of Canada actually claimed 73 genders, seriously!

Off the rails again.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

That does not tie in with your many opposition comments even denying that transexuals can even exist. That is the same as people who deny gays. Your denial is where you stand.

Again inventing things.

They are alive they exist, they are not really women or really men.

Gays and lesbians are not delusional, they may like the same sex but the are not under some strange belief they aren't men or women.

Saying I like brunette or blondes or saying I like men or women is one thing,

Saying I am a woman but male genitalia is very different.

Next we will be told some identify as dogs and cats, that is the direction we are heading, Trudeau the head of Canada actually claimed 73 genders, seriously!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Antiquesaving

   

  

    it is clear, from your numerous posts, you do not accept transexuals in any shape or form whether in sports or not. Have you been directly affected by anyone being transexual?

> I will be honest unlike some, I don't care how they live as long as they accept they are not actually women or actually men.

That does not tie in with your many opposition comments even denying that transexuals can even exist. That is the same as people who deny gays. Your denial is where you stand.

As for directly affected! In a way yes, a family member wasted months of his life after meeting what he thought was a woman, only once they it came to be intimate did that person reveal they had a penis! Dishonest and under certain countries rules you are not even permitted to ask the question.

You have had no direct relationship with anyone who is transexual. Hard to believe that after a relationship lasting months, they would not know they were transexual. Most transexuals have relationships with other transexuals.

We have a transexual in our family. I have met two others. I also know a transexual doctor in Japan with her own private clinic and a large number of local patients. They all know she is a transexual but she is also an excellent doctor and very popular.

I think people have the right to decide what they want to do with their bodies, just like women having abortions. If there are problems with changing rooms and toilets that are not difficult to fix.

I am not sure about the sports angle and the problems.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

wallace

Today 05:31 pm JST

Antiquesaving

> it is clear, from your numerous posts, you do not accept transexuals in any shape or form whether in sports or not. Have you been directly affected by anyone being transexual?

I will be honest unlike some, I don't care how they live as long as they accept they are not actually women or actually men.

As for directly affected! In a way yes, a family member wasted months of his life after meeting what he thought was a woman, only once they it came to be intimate did that person reveal they had a penis! Dishonest and under certain countries rules you are not even permitted to ask the question.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I don't think it's a phobia of any sort to support men vs. men, women vs. women, and transgender vs. transgender in any or all sports. Fans of any of those categories can stick to their "fandom". What's the problem with that?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Antiquesaving

it is clear, from your numerous posts, you do not accept transexuals in any shape or form whether in sports or not. Have you been directly affected by anyone being transexual?

By 2019, here in Japan, less than 10,000 people have applied to officially change their gender identity.

About 0.00007874015 of the population.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

So some site ACLU Pink, and pro trans sites.

Well

https://bigthink.com/health/truth-about-transgender-womens-athletic-ability/

The researchers found that transgender women had about 40% greater muscle mass than cisgender women. Moreover, they were about 19% stronger and had 20% greater cardiopulmonary capacity

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1252764

Trans women retain athletic edge after a year of hormone therapy, study finds

https://amp.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-trans-athletes-have-an-advantage-in-elite-sport/a-58583988

The research was carried out by Dr. Timothy Roberts, a pediatrician and associate professor at the University of Missouri-Kansas City, and his colleagues. They found that trans women who underwent hormone therapy for one year continued to outperform non-transgender women, also known as cisgender women, though the gap largely closed after two years. But even then, trans women still ran 12% faster

Another study, carried out by sports scientist Tommy Lundberg, found that trans women who underwent feminizing hormone therapy generally maintained their strength levels after one year.

> Do trans women have an advantage when competing in elite sports?

Without hormone therapy — yes. But even with hormone therapy, current research suggests trans women still maintain an edge in strength.

> "Pretty much any way you slice it, trans women are going to have strength advantages even after hormone therapy. I just don't see that as anything else but factual," said Joanna Harper, a medical physicist at Britain's Loughborough University

So I can find all the fake pro transgender stuff if I go with pro transgender groups like pink, ACLU and other Transgender sites but go with science and actual news sites and we get a different story and get facts based on science, commonsense and not feelings.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

There has, I suggest must, be woman and young girls only spaces in sports changing facilities.

The anger, yes accusations of bigotry, thrown wholesale when questioning trans athletes so called exclusion from women's elite sports is indicative of the use, my I also suggest a failure of gender Identity political agenda to acknowledge any compromise.

Inclusion could still met with a technical separation of trans competitive categories in direct competition.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I fail to comprehend why trans athletes cannot compete in their own individual categorises.

As for the Russians, the buck stop with the continued state sponsored doping.

The Russian Government cynical weaponizing/political leveraging of elite global sporting competitions to justify actions attributed to further geo-political agenda must be seen to then be held accountable.

The report found “strong evidence” that “elite sport policy is made within transmisogynist, misogynoir, racist, geopolitical cultural norms”.

This one sentence in wallace final link i suggest is evidence that a gender Identity political agenda is front and center.

Thank you wallace for the link.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The number of transexuals in sports is very small number.

https://www.genderjustice.us/get-the-facts-trans-equity-in-sports/

Four Myths About Trans Athletes, Debunked

https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/four-myths-about-trans-athletes-debunked

Trans women have no advantage in elite sport, new report finds

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/01/26/trans-women-no-unfair-advantage-elite-sport-new-report-finds/

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I’m more interested in letting the infamously dishonest and doped-up Russian athletes back in.

Have they ramped up the measures necessary to keep them in check?

Can’t be trusted.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Here is the hilarious junk going on today in sports.

Girls that are now playing on what used to be boys teams are demanding separate changing rooms instead of shared with boys time and girls time. (Boys being boys I suspect wouldn't have a problem with girls changing infront of them).

But at the same time as girls participating in men's teams are demanding their own changing room, women with penises are demanding to invade the girl's/women's changing rooms.

So if it is no big deal to have penis women in the female changing room, then eliminate gender specific changing rooms, I don't think very many guys will complain.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

How sad a sports organization is the only international organization that is capable of being rational and sane. Though they will no doubt be under attack for that

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

They and their supporters know full well they are not women or men but unable to accept that fact they need to insult 99% of the population by inventing Cisgender

‘Everyone knows’ again, eh?

Where are you getting ‘insulting’ 99% of the population from?

I think you are getting a bit overexcited here.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The simple fact that even Transgender and their supporters know they are wrong because they had/have to use CIS as in ciswoman cisman cisgender to label those born as women and men!

Otherwise they would still be using real women real men.

They and their supporters know full well they are not women or men but unable to accept that fact they need to insult 99% of the population by inventing Cisgender.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I remember the day when a transgender woman in female competition and Russian athlete would have been indistinguishable.

Haha! They still are indistinguishable!

The Russians and Belarus teams will not be there in Paris. Their supporters had better plan something else in 18 months - but I expect they'll still be crying foul on these threads.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

So a trans woman in a men's changing room is acceptable?

Even if there were no issues in sports, changing rooms, or toilets, the haters would still hate.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

…it wants to use limits on testosterone as the key determining factor.

Unnecessary. Simply limit male competitions to males, since they are males before birth. Simple.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

It isn't transphobia if you are a woman in a women's changing room and uncomfortable being confronted by a Penis!

Women and by that I mean those that are real, no more false label of CIS, have the right not to have male genitalia forced on them like what happened in women's swimming.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Many phobias are uncontrollable

They can also be irrational. They can also be conquered.

There is also a difference between having a phobia and actively promoting against something. Some people are repulsed by the idea of homosexuality or transgender people but that doesn’t excuse them actively promoting against them or their rights ( I’d add that this particular phobia does seem to be fearing or covering something within themselves in many cases ).

Not a great point you made there.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Homophobia and transphobia are both real.

"Thus, homophobia and transphobia are both phenomena directed against people who challenge the sexual stereotypes commonly accepted by society: In fact, Herek (2004) proposed the use of the expression sexual prejudice, which..."

https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-94-007-0753-5_4205

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Cisgender

You mean real women!

Here is the contradiction of trans!

They say they are women or men then use CIS to label real women and real men.

There are women and then trans women only.

No such thing as cisgender or cis women cis men

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Outside the world of sports, there are many who are transphobic and raise many objections to the point of hatred.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Are women who are Cisgender at an advantage when comes to competing in male sports?

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-trans-athletes-have-an-advantage-in-elite-sport/a-58583988

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Common sense with the transgender issue.

As for Russian athletes, I’m not so sure. This country has a history of going to absolutely ridiculous extremes to cheat.

Very untrustworthy. Be on high alert. Watch them like a hawk.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Well, it was a rhetorical question… ;)

There was the woman on the college football team. She kicked one squiggly 15 yard onside kick heralded as great by breathless announcers.

Its not fair to women athletes who excel against other women. It’s degrading their accomplishments.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Why don’t we see female athletes identifying as males to compete against men?

We do/did including a boxer that everyone was going on about how great She/he was that is until she/he reached pro and got shown what the difference was being beaten solidly everytime. Once money was involved and the biological men risked losing their livelihood no hesitation to knock her/him out!

In other cases the biological women ended up injured if it was any contact sport.

The rest like track, swimming, even soccer they just do not reach the level of biological men.

Now we will hear and females in male soccer and ice hockey, but don't be fooled, they are almost always goal tenders or places in passive positions to comply with some silly regulation/ political decision or court order and would never had made it even close if they were biological men.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

A team of average male high school track and field athletes would beat the best women track and field athletes in the world.

Why don’t we see female athletes identifying as males to compete against men?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Whatever transgender athletes think or "feel" they are, biology is overriding, and that criterion should be applied by all sporting bodies where events held are for a single sex. That way the only source of problems for officials will be hemaphrodites, like the Russian Press sisters were said to be, but they were decades ago. In any case testosterone assessment could be relevant here.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

When one of the most prominent Transgender people and an Olympic gold medalist says they are against transgender women like him/herself competing against natural women you need to listen.

Katlyn/Bruce Jenner says the even in his/her present state he/she is far stronger than women his size and age.

Track and field's global body have said its "preferred option" is to tighten the rules surrounding eligibility but that it wants to use limits on testosterone as the key determining factor.

Now this is the biggest joke/problem, testosterone is actually a minor thing.

What is one of the biggest more difficult doping problems to detect?

Blood doping, where high originated blood is reintroduced giving them a higher oxygen level in their blood

Well biological men have larger lungs and higher than similar size biological females, simply put even at the same testosterone level the male will intake more air thus more oxygen and carry more oxygen to the muscles.

https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vital-capacity

Here is an example of the difference.

Like most capacity calculators it doesn't ask testosterone level but age, biological SEX, height and weight, .

Play with it,enter your stats then change sex to female and see the difference,

In my case as a male 3.722 litres

If I change the selection to female it is now 2.798.

That is nearly 1 litre less of air capacity means far lower oxygenation for the same effort.

Lung size/capacity will not shrink with transition.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

I agree to let Russian and Belarusian athletes compete again in all sports. transgender man should never be allowed to compete against women

I remember the day when a transgender woman in female competition and Russian athlete would have been indistinguishable.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Just follow the standards that swimming has imposed, it simple if your your born of a sex then you complete in that sex. Born a male you complete with males. It very simple and most fair. I say 10 down votes in the first hour my comment will be attacked

Its just basic common sense.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

Men compete with men and women with women..

Athletic competencies without Russians are not athletic competencies..

Deal with both...

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

I agree to let Russian and Belarusian athletes compete again in all sports.

transgender man should never be allowed to compete against women.

it is just logic

-8 ( +7 / -15 )

Just follow the standards that swimming has imposed, it simple if your your born of a sex then you complete in that sex. Born a male you complete with males. It very simple and most fair. I say 10 down votes in the first hour my comment will be attacked

7 ( +15 / -8 )

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