Yang's PGA win helps Asian golf surge

hoserfella,

Once again, you show your lack of knowledge about sports. Jack Johnson is a very famous boxer. You should read more.

Fluke! Everybody needs someone to be proud of and give them hope. He wlll be a King in Korea forever but his 15 mins in the rest of the world will go by quickly. You should feel very fortunate to be witness to Golf's greatest player ever. Mickelson and the others do. Long live the age of Tiger. The world's Golfing Hero!

biglittleman- Every golf "analyst" on CBS said the obvious; not only did Tiger choke on many makeable putts, he simply got soundly outplayed by a steady and masterful Yang over the entire last round. Long live Korea's newest golfing hero, Y.E. YANG!!

hoserfella

The amateur golfer who doubts the observation of professional golfers and analysts who also said it wasn't a choke. No wonder you are amateur golfer and they are the professionals.

A fluke would be if he overshot the green, hit someone in the head, and then the ball bounced back into the hole.

He just outplayed Tiger, particularly on the green.

I hear Yang started late in life so we may seem him improve even more.

biglittleman-the only thing u have proven here is that u should have given up a long time ago. a 4 stroke lead after 2 rounds. What a choke! thats truly Normanesque!

Mochiso7,

Who are you again? Read the first, second or third post of mine. I congratulated the man. Now that I have proven logically it was fluke, you want to change focus and say I'm not mature. Seems like you aren't mature. You should follow your own advice and congratulate someone on their debate. If not aren't you the pot calling the kettle black? Stay on topic.

So what? Even a good loser would praise/congratulate the winner even if it was a fluke. How old are you? It seems you're very far away from being a true mature person.

jackseoul,

What is your point now? I have already said I play the sport. Once again, a wrong answer. I also gave you reasons and examples for my opinions. You and POTUS have been proven wrong a couple times on this thread. You seem to bee continuing to try to get the last word. You have been talking a lot and saying nothing. I have used a dictionary to define fluke. The match was fluke! Right, Jack?

littlebigman,

First of all, you lack reading skills my friend. No one is saying that Tiger wasn't the best player!!! Others & I have mentioned this countless number of times!!! No one stated that Yang was the "Tiger Killer" as you have stated many times. You are twisting what people say to keep this agony of a discussion going.

Sport analysts agree with you? Like I said, when people don't play the sport, they usually end up trash talking on the sideline. Who was the one that mentioned Happy Gilmour? Hey Tiger! YOU CAN DO IT! You're that guy!!

It's too early to know if it's a fluke or not. If Yang uses this Major victory as a springboard to win more PGA tournaments in the future, then it's not a fluke. Hopefully he will, but current history is against him.

Tiger did not choke; he simply got outplayed on a bad putting day.

Doesn't matter about their histories or futures, on that day Yang was better than Tiger, congrats to him. Now do us all a favor and shut your mouths.

@Potsu

biglittleman at 04:52 PM JST - 19th August

@jackseuol,

You really think Tiger was afraid that is why he didn't play the Honda classic? Read lostrune2 post again: Look at their records playing in the same tournaments. Yang will fade away into abscurity. Another person who will be hailed as the "Tiger killer" but then fades away like the rest.

Fluke: a successful result, brought about by accident or stroke of luck. Luck like the leader throughout the tournament having a bad luck on the very last day. The same player who previously never loss a tournament leading the entire time going into the final day. It is fluke.

@Potsu,

Did you not read my dictionary definition of fluke? From the dictionary:

Fluke: a successful result, brought about by accident or stroke of luck. You should read more as well play more golf. Not a contradiction at all.

Ummm...."Yang in an interview said he was lucky." Dah ! He said "lucky",not fluke.Thanks for your contradiction,stop trying to be so funny.

hoserfella

You trying to tell us that your amateur ability and knowledge is better than sports analysts who have played the game longer than both have been possibly living. They all tend to agree with me. You sound bias because Tiger isn't your favorite. That too bad because he is the best to ever play. Good luck to Yang for his lucky once in a lifetime victory. By the way, even Yang in an interview said he was lucky. He also agrees with me.

Tiger has already won 70 major tournaments. Yang has finally got one at age 37 and a prize of $1,350,000. This was a just pure luck. If Yang was consistantly good on all other the previous tournaments he entered, you would hear more about him, but he's not. Yang is just average professional golfer.

biglittleman- unlike you, I do play the game which is why my opinion here is direct and to the point, unlike your meanderings. Your love affair with everything Tiger is causing you to lose perspective.

Moderator: Readers, no more sniping at each other please.

@Potsu & hoserfella

So you say I don't know anything about golf but make a mistake like that. Not very knowledgeable. Tiger will be the all time winning golf player and will the best to ever play the game.

I have already defined what a fluke is and why Yang's win fits that description. You haven't shown me why it wasn't.

Hoserfella you should to play the game. A choke is a total collapse, when and where everything goes wrong both mentally and physically. Jean Van De Velde choked. Ed Sneed choked. Scott Hoch choked. Tiger didn't choke. The sports analysts who viewed also agreed with me. He did what so many great players do at one time or another. He missed putts and miscalculated on his approaches to the green. Yang was having a good day while Tiger had an unlucky one. A Fluke! You just can't admit to Tiger being the best ever. Yang will have his five minutes of fame and fade away. You both should learn more about the game.

MoSHITso....

biglittleman- ever played the game beyond the local mini-putt? Doesn't sound like it. If u did you'd realize that playing 4 solid rounds including one against Tiger on Sunday is as far from a fluke as it gets. By the way, what do u mean when u say Tiger doesn't "loose" that often? As in he "Loosened" his composure on Sunday??

It is not one of the 4 majors,that goes without saying,but it's a pretty big PGA tour event...my connatation was it's a "major",as in PRETTY BIG tournament,of course not one of THE majors.

@Potus,

Were you not the other one who also believed the The Honda Classic was a major?

@jackseuol,

You really think Tiger was afraid that is why he didn't play the Honda classic? Read lostrune2 post again: Look at their records playing in the same tournaments. Yang will fade away into abscurity. Another person who will be hailed as the "Tiger killer" but then fades away like the rest.

Fluke: a successful result, brought about by accident or stroke of luck. Luck like the leader throughout the tournament having a bad luck on the very last day. The same player who previously never loss a tournament leading the entire time going into the final day. It is fluke.

Sounds like someone doesn't even play golf...

biglittleman,

I was to the point. There is no fluke. Either a player brings his game or he doesn't. Simple as that. The other guy just didn't play well. Because he didn't play well, that was a fluke? You must have looked up the "other" definition for that word. I couldn't find it... and my dictionary is in English!

Also, I really don't think it matters if it's a major or not. The point is Woods lost 2 times to Yang, plain facts I'm afraid. That's this year, right? Two wins against the best player means something, does it not? Woods came to play the Honda Classic, he didn't waste his time on a plane to get beat, did he? The play-by-play showed that Tiger just didn't play well, but you say that's a fluke? Too bad for all the other flukes in history!

Jackseoul,

Stick to the topic. We are not talking about if Iron Mike is celebrated or his loss was fluke.

There is no one out there to take Tiger Woods place and won't be for a while. Yang did a good job but it was fluke. He doesn't win consistently enough especially in majors(first time and almost 40) and Tiger doesn't loose that often in those kinds of situations(having a lead up until the last day). If he continue to lose in such a fashion then your right but he doesn't that is why it;s fluke. Let' see if win another major in the future. Then we will know if it wasn't a fluke. And winning the Honda classic again won't count, because remember it is not a major.

You are telling me to play the sport when you never asked if I did. I suggest you do the same and you will know the difference between a major and non-major tournament.

biglittleman,

You said: "Yeah, it was fluke. Plain and simple. Whether the fluke was his or Tiger's off day it was still a fluke. Jackseoul if you think Yang is the successor you will be waiting a long time."

You should read carefully before ranting. I specifically stated that Yang may not be the successor: "Woods, as I said is the best out there, but there is always a time for someone else to take his place. It may not be Yang, but someone surely will."

I say play the game before you become a commentator. You're just one sided. If you play the game you should have passion for it. Who knew Mike Tyson would be a has-been and not a celebrated hero. He too was at the top of his game when he lost against Holyfield. That was a fluke too?

biglittleman- Yang toughed it out over 18 holes like a champ while Tiger simply choked. It looks as if you have fallen in the same love affair with Tiger as U.S. sportswriters in portraying him as some sort of superman. The fact is he is the best ever, but is a mortal with a very boring attitude both on and off the course.

Yeah, it was fluke. Plain and simple. Whether the fluke was his or Tiger's off day it was still a fluke. Jackseoul if you think Yang is the successor you will be waiting a long time.

A hole in one can be considered a "fluke"....not 4 days of golf at that level.He was consistent and his concentration was faultless."Fluke" is the wrong word.Perhaps he got lucky because Tiger had an off day,but "fluke",no way.If you actually play golf you would know that... one thinks.

@ biglittleman,

if we all had good days in golf, then we wouldn't be paying for someone else's lunch. A bad day being what? Your game went south and you can't recover. You're giving Woods excuses. Maybe he should have practiced more or not had sex the night before, but fair is fair in love and golf. Woods, as I said is the best out there, but there is always a time for someone else to take his place. It may not be Yang, but someone surely will. Then you'll say that Woods was getting too old for the game. Was the fluke the fact that Yang won or that Woods lost?

I'm not sure what I can say to that. Anywhere in the world there's peripheral costs to the game - transportation, food, etc. Japan's not unique in that.

I totally agree, pawatan. Anywhere you go in the world, there will be your fair share of elitist country club golf courses where the general public will find it hard to afford. Then there will be the affordable public links which more people can go to, but just have to deal with some waiting for starting times. I know in California, that there are about 10% of the golf courses which would be affordable for most people.

good idea for japan to have 3500 golf courses...its not as if they needed the land for anything else, like affordable housing or better farms for feeding the people

Tiger Woods is hands down the best player in the sport, but he lost fair and square. You don't hear everyone saying he was leading until the final day because he was 'lucky' or 'it was an up day', and likewise he didn't lose because he was 'unlucky' or 'had a bad day'. He was beaten fair and square by a man who made some AMAZING shots towards the end. I'm sick of hearing the news stations focus on how 'no one else is as good a player', or that those who have 'beaten Tiger Woods are not consistent', etc. It's really quite childish.

Give the winner the credit he deserves. Now, on the LAST tour, where Tiger didn't make the cut, THEN you can say "It was a really bad day". Tiger didn't play badly at all in this tournament, but he was beaten by a man who played better (Yang).

jackseoul,

Tiger Woods doesn't play the Honda Classic; he plays the Buick though, one of his sponsors.

Good for Yang. Besides his victory over Woods at the 2006 HSBC, here's more info about him off ESPN:

And that is what it takes to beat Woods, a guy coming out of nowhere doing the unthinkable.

Consider this: Woods had finished ahead of Yang in each of the 21 previous PGA Tour events in which they had played together, winning nine times.

The closest Yang ever came was a fifth-place finish two weeks ago, when Woods won the Buick Open. In terms of shots, Yang's closest call was a 2-shot difference at the Quail Hollow Championship earlier this year, where Woods finished fourth and Yang was tied for 11th.

(Note: the HSBC was not a PGA Tour event.)

Hopefully though, he won't be like previous Tiger-beaters, as ESPN continues:

Six times now, Woods has finished second in a major championship and nobody -- nobody -- would have picked the eventual winner to beat him.

He lost by a shot to Rich Beem at the 2002 PGA here at Hazeltine, by 2 to Michael Campbell at the 2005 U.S. Open, by 2 to Zach Johnson at the 2007 Masters, by 1 to Angel Cabrera at the 2007 U.S. Open, by 3 to Trevor Immelman at the 2008 Masters and now by 3 to Yang.

Only Johnson and Cabrera have won tournaments on the PGA Tour since, and nobody in that group is considered a consistent, world-beating player. And their résumés prior to defeating Woods were sorely lacking.

Throw in Bob May at the 2000 PGA Championship, Chris DiMarco at the 2005 Masters and Rocco Mediate at the 2008 U.S. Open -- all playoff losers to Woods in those majors -- and you have three more guys who have not won a tournament since their showdown with the game's best player.

Sounds like the James Bond girls (pre-Halle Berry). Good luck.

Your example and dano2002 supports my point. It isn't just the price of the game it is the total price included with a day of golf.

I'm not sure what I can say to that. Anywhere in the world there's peripheral costs to the game - transportation, food, etc. Japan's not unique in that.

I find Japan a much more enjoyable place to play than most other countries I have played. The courses are in good shape, the service is nice, I enjoy the break at the turn. The costs aren't that much higher than other places, and you get a lot for that price.

Golf's never going to be a poor man's game with the equipment costs, etc.

@Pawatan,

Your example and dano2002 supports my point. It isn't just the price of the game it is the total price included with a day of golf.

SmithinJapan,

I totally agree.

Maybe the white stranglehold of this sport at the elite level is crashing down?

Um, probably the best player in history is half black, half Asian? Let nobody forget that Tiger is Thai.

In addition, most good courses require lunch be taken and you cannot get a tee off past 11 in the morning.

There are many courses in Japan with twilight play, even a few in the Tokyo area. It can be quite cheap to play at twilight.

Oops, I mean the first Asian champion from this area of Asia. I forgot about India.

@Jackseoul,

I have given him credit but the Honda classic is not a major. He just became the first Asian to win a major. That is the record he just set. It really isn't debatable it is a fact.

It is a fluke because he won both times when Woods have unusually bad days. Tiger Woods isn't an up and down player. That is why he is the best in the world. When he has a bad day it usually a really bad day. Exactly like this last tournament on the last day.

Now watch.... I bet Japanese golf courses will jack up membership prices instead of lowering them and actually adding to the sport. I don't know how much golf is in other Asian countries, but I know that your average game in Japan could put you well on your way to a year's membership in country clubs in many other places, and in the more expensive clubs in Japan a year's membership would give you a lifetime somewhere else.

Lower the COST of golfing and you'll see that surge live beyond a momentary surge in interest.

The problem with golf in Japan is that it takes up your whole day. 1.5 hours to drive there. 7 hours to play a round (because the Japanese spend excessive time on the greens) and another 1.5 to get home. In addition, most good courses require lunch be taken and you cannot get a tee off past 11 in the morning.

if they had twighlight here i think more would play. but golf is geared towards the rich oijisan and his crew.

The Honda Classic is big enough to draw Woods. Give Yang some credit for winning it.

Thats two wins for Yang against Woods. That's a great fluke! Remember Phil Mickelson? Next to Woods he's the greatest player alive in my opinion. He only has 3 wins! Lots of runner-up positions though. Woods is in a class by himself, but 2 losses to Yang? That's no fluke!

Good for him! Only a decade ago, if you had told someone an Asian (or an African American for that matter) would win a Major, you would have been laughed out of town. Maybe the white stranglehold of this sport at the elite level is crashing down?

I just hope the Korean media is not banging on about him being "The Korean Tiger Woods" in the same was as the J-Media is banging on about Mr. Ishikawa being the "Japanese Tiger Woods"...

Yeah, the venues I agree with but Olympic venues end up that way. That is one reason why more people are protesting bringing the Olympics to their cities.

I still think I'm right about the program. What you are describing is the well being of their individual athletes. In communist society or just a group mentality the group comes before the individual. With such a large population they have tons of human resources at their disposable. That is why they demand absolute loyalty and don't mind use them up until they burn out. I personally, don't like this idea. In the end, it still all for the pride of the country. They may use their resources differently than say a smaller country with fewer resources but still they have longterm in mind. Like I explained earlier look at their other sports programs how well they have developed.

Yao Ming is different because he plays in the US and still must be loyal to China. If he was still in China or only in the US. He would be better off. Most Chinese athletes are not in his situation.

Also, they are nonexistent in places like China and Taiwan.

There's plenty of golf courses in China. Look at Hainan or the area around Shenzhen.

Golf in Japan is expensive!!! It is elitist because you usually have to be member for most and once again the price

You don't usually need to be a member. In fact most courses allow any member of the public, foreign or Japanese, to play. Look around at the booking sites.

Golf is really expensive in the Tokyo area but not so much in the other parts of the country. In Tohoku, for example, it's easy to get a weekend round on a nice course for 7000 yen. That's not much more than you would pay in the US, and probably cheaper than many places in the US. It's not THAT elitist.

Even in the Tokyo area it's quite possible to get a round on a nice course for 12,000 yen on a weekend. Most people only play once a month or so, so I think that's hardly prohibitive.

China will surpass them because when they develop sports programs they usually look at the long term

I have to disagree with you on this point. China only looks at the here and now when it comes to sports programs and venues. Take a look at Yao Ming and how because they were selfish in demanding that he play for their national team, while playing in the NBA, his career is now in jeopardy (and at still a young age). Also, look at what has become of their billion-dollar Olympic venues: all of them are being left unused and wasted. All that money spent for a few weeks of fun.

The bigger picture is recruiting to find the best players

Good point biglittleman. Golf courses in Japan and Korea are just way too expensive. Also, they are nonexistent in places like China and Taiwan. Asia has to make more of an effort to promote the sport of golf if they want its popularity to surge.

Kanadamanada,

Good point! I could be wrong but if my memory serves me there were between 2-3 Japanese players that placed higher than Ryo in this tournament. There coverage was pretty sad to say the least.

This is a great thing for golf. Incredibly enough, the Japanese news coverage of the tournament had over 50% of each segment dedicated to Ishikawa - Ishikawa tees off...into the water, hits into the ruff - tees off like Happy Gilmour... If anyone says that Japan doesn't know how to market its golfers, they're completely wrong, as you they take a relativley unskilled 17 year old and make the whole of Japan think he's a contender. Ai-chan, anyone?

@Pawatan,

Many Japanese don't play golf! Especially not compared to other sports in Japan. Most that do have a business connection related to it. Their company has memberships. Golf in Japan is expensive!!! It is elitist because you usually have to be member for most and once again the price. If it was more affordable and open to the public then more people could get involved. More people means more talented individuals would get involved with the sport thus elevating the level of play.

It isn't that difficult conceive. The bigger picture is recruiting to find the best players, developing a proper training program, including coaches and staff to represent their countries in a sport you obviously say many people play yet the skill level is not that good. Especially compared to international competition. China will surpass them because when they develop sports programs they usually look at the long term where as in Japan it doesn't always seem to be the case. Think about how many medals China won in the last Olympics. Prime example of long term thinking.

Bobbie wickam why is this "not a great result for Japan?" what does Yang winning have to do with Japan?

No,he won the Honda Classic earlier this year.

Not exactly a major tournament.

Continuing to make it an elitist sport where very few interested player have access which helps to further Japan's mediocre performances. Once again, other Asian countries are thinking about the big picture and passing Japan by.

Japan has got to have the most golf courses per sq km in the world. I'm not sure how that makes it elitist here. Many, many Japanese play golf. What is the 'big picture' you're talking about?

@Potsu,

The Honda classic isn't a major. There are famous tournaments that are not considered majors. Like I said this his first major. Sergio Garcia has also won quite a few tournaments but he has never won a major.

Continuing to make it an elitist sport where very few interested player have access which helps to further Japan's mediocre performances.

Good point. Markets like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and China just aren't doing enough to market their players. Seems to me that the Korean and Japanese ladies outshine their male counterparts.

I don't think the Honda Classic is a major. The majors have been a bit strange this year with a 59 year old almost winning the Btitish Open and now Yang upsetting Mr.Woods. Not a good result for Japan.

"This like his first major win in his golfing career." No,he won the Honda Classic earlier this year.

The impact will be good for the Asian market but Yang is like 37-39 years old. This like his first major win in his golfing career. Let's see how he does at other events. I would say this was more a fluke than anything. He was playing superb while Tiger was having a bad day.

You can also see Japan has learned nothing. Continuing to make it an elitist sport where very few interested player have access which helps to further Japan's mediocre performances. Once again, other Asian countries are thinking about the big picture and passing Japan by. They need to also give attention to the other Japanese golfers those who always outperform Ryo Ishikawa on the international stage.