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Tokyo Gas opens new hydrogen station ahead of Olympics

21 Comments

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Fossil gas hydrogen isn't green though, so this isn't a win.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Shouldhave just made them fossil gas vehicles and avoided the substantial energy conversion losses. World is going with EVs so of course Japan cannot join in. Sad

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Fossil gas hydrogen isn't green though, so this isn't a win.

What are you on about? It is.

You burn it and you don't get co2 or other harmful coumponds.

I am curious though about the filling stations. The comprise of highly pressurized (800 bar) storage tanks.

That would give a whole big of an explosion if a terrorist attack occurred.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

World is going with EVs so of course Japan cannot join in. Sad

If you meant that the energy needed to fill in those hydrogen tanks is generated from burning fossil fuels then yes, I agree that is not green.

But then again same goes for EV.

In order to charge it one needs a power source. And what is electricity generated from in Japan mostly? LNG, coal and oil.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Hydrogen produces water when burned and is supposed to be a clean energy source. But few people know how much energy it takes to produce hydrogen. Promoting hydrogen fuel is a relatively cheap way to buy an environmentally correct corporate image.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Agree with Jacek. It's very simple - if the hydrogen is made using a renewable clean energy source (wind, solar, geo-thermal, tidal, micr-hydro... ) then hydrogen is a great solution for helping to move away from fossil fuels.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Hindenburg on wheels, hydrogen is a very dangerous gas

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Most hydrogen in Japan is produced it if methane with CO2 as a byproduct. Just in case you didn't know.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Hydrogen is dangerous, but gasoline is dangerous. Still we have tamed gasoline. We can do the same thing with hydrogen. But, what is city gas? I live in the country. Is there country gas? Is there are carbon footprint to hydrogen they are producing here, as some people claim? We need to know IN the article. Articles like this can be so confusing.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Hydrogen is a battery. If i wanted a battery then make it a real one. Then it can be recharged with a variety of sources. Fossil gas is not a renewable resource

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Hydrogen is a battery. If i wanted a battery then make it a real one. Then it can be recharged with a variety of sources. Fossil gas is not a renewable resource

Um... no it isn't. Someone doesn't know how hydrogen fuel cells actually work... The only current benefit for BEV over HFCEV is that the battery tech has gotten to the level where it's cost effective to make it. However, making those batteries is 1000s of times more harmful to the environment than making hydrogen.

Batteries are an electricty storage medium.

Fuel cells are an electricity generation medium.

Hindenburg on wheels, hydrogen is a very dangerous gas

Not even remotely close. Hydrogen CAN be a dangerous gas. The Hindenburg disaster happened because the design was flawed from the beginning and hydrogen wasn't stored in a safe manner.

Hydrogen under pressure is much safer than current BEV battery packs. Should the tank ever rupture the pressure it's stored under would mean it would dissipate into the air relatively quickly. And, hydrogen gas stored under pressure (meaning it's not a gas anymore) isn't flammable.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Coal was likely burned to create the electricity needed to produce the hydrogen...

3 ( +3 / -0 )

If they are using fossil fuel then it is just Greenwash - somnething this government are practiced in.

As with many environmental issues the media needs to step up and inform the public more to responsibly raise public awareness and knolwedge.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Opinions seem to be very split in the comments here, from encouraging to straight negative, and the article is probably not as clear as it could be, as nothisrealname says above.

I'm a hydrogen fan, even if there are hidden problems in the manufacturing process. This is not to say that I do not like EV, but EV too has hidden problems, so the world needs variety, i.e. not putting all our eggs in one basket.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Is this safe?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Im confused. Is this LNG or hydrogen? Hydrogen is derived from splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen via water electrolysis. This can be recombined back into water as by-product of fuel cell. Not entirely closed system, but it sounds like it would make more sense to just fill tank with water, with water electroyzer and fuel cell exchange system set within.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

All this for a hundred vehicles? I still don’t understand why Japan doesn’t promote LPG conversions to public vehicles. They have taxis and some buses running on LPG, but not public vehicles. My Pajero here in Australia runs on LPG and gasoline. LPG is half the price of gasoline and produces less CO2. In all the years I lived in Japan I don’t recall ever seeing a public vehicle running on duel fuel nor a gas stand that actually sold LPG to the public. I remember all the difficulties I had getting my gas bottle filled for my BBQ.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Do the hustle, there are private cars running on LPG here, not only taxis. There is a place in town here for example where they will do the conversion on anyone's engine for 300,000 JPY, and as you say it is cheaper in the long fun for a couple of reasons, although you do not quite get the same bang for your buck with LPG.

Back to hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, though, I'd love to own a 2nd hand Mirai, or even a new one if my Takarakuji tickets would just start kicking in.

Note of surprise. These buses take 15 minutes to fill up, and they can only do 20 a day there? I see bottlenecks ahead at the Olympics.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Gasoline cars would be prohibited someday after fuel cell cars become more.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I agree with Meiyouwenti, it's just money from taxpayers used to buy a fake green corporate image.

So let me get this straight : they use methane that is CO2 neutral only because the spend money to buy imaginary "credits" , to offset the exploration, extraction,refining and distribution impact and then used it to steam reforming it into Hydrogen where reaction alone produce 25kg of CO2 every Kg of hydrogen (plus the CO2 emitted when burning the syngas used to start the reaction) and then waste additional energy to compress the hydrogen to almost 700 times the atmospheric pressure and further energy to distribute it.

While it may not be as impacting as diesel buses this project is far far from "green" or "emission free" ,as far as thermodynamics dictate the overall efficiency would be greater and less CO2 emitting if you just burn the gas in an hybrid ICE bus (and far cheaper).

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ultimately, hydrogen will be produced mainly from nuclear heat, from biomass, or from renewable electricity that would otherwise go to waste. The FCEVs in operation today are still beta test vehicles. Future FCEVs will have lower platinum loading and will likely store their hydrogen at lower pressure in solid matrices. If you expect technology to appear full formed like Athena from the head of Zeus, you probably will be grow very impatient reading these blogs.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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