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Apple abandons electric car plans: media

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31 Comments
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Apple has never made anything useful.

A truly useless comment.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

One fuel does not fit all situations. Even hydrogen will be very limited in many areas for decades to come. Billions of people have no electricity in their living spaces. Millions have no flushing toilets or piped water. EVs and hydrogen are the least of their problems. Millions cooking on open fires.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Hydrogen uses more energy to produce than it provides until green hydrogen becomes available.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The only people that think EV is the future are people that live in or near cities.

Go to Africa, Siberia, Alaska, Nunavut South America, India, etc..

Eventually EVs will be able to operate in those areas as well. The technology is still new.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Apple has never made anything useful.

Unless you prefer your data not being sold to advertisers that is.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I think originally Apple was planning to produce a car with a manufacturer.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Apple pumped a serious amount of money and resources into their car project. They will concentrate the team on AI.

Apple is not a car manufacturer like Tesla. There is still a future for Evs. Tesla proves that.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

EV are going to be the Beta in the Beta vs VHS comp. Hydrogen will win the day! Noone wants a car that can only be driven 5-600k then recharge then sooner rather than later batteries need replacing.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

AntiquesavingToday 03:11 pm JST

wallace

Hydrogen uses more energy to produce than it provides until green hydrogen becomes available.

> Yes and no!

> In many cases especially hydroelectric dams they rarely run at full capacity except at peak times.

The generating time depends on the power demand and the amount of stored water. Hydroelectric dams cannot run 24/7.

This means water is diverted turbines shut or reduced in order not to overload the system.

> Hydroelectric power stations are located next to water sources.

They are in the dam

So building hydro plans at the same area using off peak hours running the dam at full or near full capacity the extra energy can produce hydrogen that can be stored and easily shiped.

Many countries like Japan are maxed out for hydro dams.

Hydropower: what is it, advantages and disadvantages?

https://www.telefonica.com/en/communication-room/blog/hydropower-what-is-advantages-disadvantages/

EV will more than likely be one of the transportation methods primarily used in urban areas but an alternate powdered vehicle will be required outside of urban areas.

As I said, there is not one solution for all locations.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Morocco is building huge solar plants including the use of mirrors to heat a central tower.

The Noor Ouarzazate Solar Complex

https://helioscsp.com/noor-ouarzazate-solar-complex-in-morocco-worlds-largest-concentrated-solar-power-plant/#:~:text=The%20Noor%20Ouarzazate%20Solar%20Complex,biggest%20concentrated%20solar%20power%20facility.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This does not really surprise me, with Chinese EV's flooding the world wide market, and of of course USA own brands, there are just so many being made everywhere.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This is a good news.

Indeed!!

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Antiquesaving

wallace

Today 02:54 pm JST

> One fuel does not fit all situations. Even hydrogen will be very limited in many areas for decades to come. Billions of people have no electricity in their living spaces. Millions have no flushing toilets or piped water. EVs and hydrogen are the least of their problems. Millions cooking on open fires.

> Yes to all of that but having been in many of these places, one thing is near universal, they have some form of transportation bringing supplies, fuel and food and that transportation is usually a ICE vehicle with extra fuel tanks etc...

> Cut that off and they will be in an even worse situation!

In developing countries many problems need to be resolved before fuel like hydrogen can be used for transport. Probably it can be used in power stations to make electricity.

In many places in Africa, it is cheaper and easier to install solar panels than running electric cables hundreds of miles.

I never suggested cutting off fossil fuels for transport.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Climate changes and droughts are causing problems at some hydro dams.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Apple realizes nobody can beat China..

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

China is flooding the market with EVs. They make one like they create smartphones where the user will replace their old models few years after purchase. They are just built NOT to last.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Could it be because EV owners reported hassles with battery and charging systems!

Also because of weight saving manufacturing requirement's, the vehicles’ body panels interiors are reminiscent of remote controlled toy cars.

I have friends in Nagoya, own those "plug-in" hybrids, that run on battery power, on the promise, no prayers that petrol -electrics will magically take over, They tell me they don't.

Buy a hyriid, if you must.

I did.

Or go for vintage muscle, the leather, the wood, the roar. GRRRR

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

For most EV drivers in US, over 90% of charging happens at home, they LOVE it. For others, where they reside, and quality of charging network matters a lot. Charging network grows daily as gas stations close daily.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Apple's decision very wise. EV's a bloodbath, China's dominating, nobody will make profits on vehicles, money will be in digital services, especially autonomous driving.

Think US will ever allow China to deploy its digital services in US market with EVs? Ditto rest of G-7. China will need to partner with companies like Apple.

Apple's playing this smart. Can always buy failing auto company later at big discount, bankruptcy efficiencies etc. Auto market consolidating, China's new vehicle sales now about 50% EV, world's largest market.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

EV's and their durability, not sure about Chinese but Tesla's useful life 2 to 4x longer than ICE vehicles, batteries if charged properly overnight with slow charging not to 100% or to run down to 0% frequently, research says 500K with minimal loss of performance.

Many EV's in future, owners will simply swap out batteries if cars well maintained.

As for EV commercial trucks, Pepsi's CFO says Tesla Semi lasts 3 or 4x longer than diesel equivalent, approx. 70% lower operating costs, far better for environment. Pepsi knows about trucking, one of world's largest fleets.

Tesla has YEARS of pre-orders of its Semi (and its Cyber Truck), battery constrained, so Tesla now directly involved in lithium biz, vertically integrating rapidly.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

500K MILES, not kilometer FYI for Tesla's batteries today, expected useful life with performance still about 80% of original battery IF generally properly charged as above.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Apples not giving up on autonomous driving, Apple can easily buy an auto company given their wealth, richest company in the world. They're focused on technology partnerships with automotive companies, advantages they offer as result of their technology and installed base.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Davers

Today 02:44 pm JST

The only people that think EV is the future are people that live in or near cities.

> Go to Africa, Siberia, Alaska, Nunavut South America, India, etc..

> Eventually EVs will be able to operate in those areas as well. The technology is still new.

Really!?

We can't even get proper and reliable electricity to homes in most of these places but we are somehow going to get EV to work in them?

Cart before the horse again!

First solve the problem of getting reliable electricity everywhere then think about EV.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

wallace

Today 02:43 pm JST

Hydrogen uses more energy to produce than it provides until green hydrogen becomes available.

Yes and no!

In many cases especially hydroelectric dams they rarely run at full capacity except at peak times.

This means water is diverted turbines shut or reduced in order not to overload the system.

Hydroelectric power stations are located next to water sources.

So building hydro plans at the same area using off peak hours running the dam at full or near full capacity the extra energy can produce hydrogen that can be stored and easily shiped.

You are correct it is at this time not the most efficient but it is far better than wasting the possible available electricity, trying to store in batteries, ship batteries or transverse thousands of kilometers or tundra, savannah, oceans (to islands) laying power cables or shipping batteries!

EV will more than likely be one of the transportation methods primarily used in urban areas but an alternate powdered vehicle will be required outside of urban areas.

What frightens me the most are those most involved in the rah rah rah EV crowed that say things like

"people will need to change the way and where they live"

Advocating the idea of people needing to leave isolated communities.

Right now they only talk about areas in Canada and the USA mostly with European origins but knowing the history of fanatics that think they know what is best, it will not be long after that the make isolated places in places like Nunavut etc.. to leave their ancestral homes "for their own good and the good of the planet" and"relocate to cities in the south!

I am not exaggerating because this has already been openly said regarding, the northern people, islands in our oceans, desert areas and isolated mountain communities.

And a quick look at history can reveal plenty of cases where these things have happened and in many cases more than once to the same minorities!

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Keep in mind almost all of Tesla's value's technology, auto biz, just a platform to deploy their tech, Musk says all the time, no real money in autos, just digital services.

As China's EV firms ramp up production across globe in places like Mexico, etc., industry pricing pressure coming fast. Only question of when all vehicles are EV, not if.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Below EV? Apple?

wallaceToday  03:40 pm JST

Morocco is building huge solar plants including the use of mirrors to heat a central tower.

The Noor Ouarzazate Solar Complex

https://helioscsp.com/noor-ouarzazate-solar-complex-in-morocco-worlds-largest-concentrated-solar-power-plant/#:~:text=The%20Noor%20Ouarzazate%20Solar%20Complex,biggest%20concentrated%20solar%20power%20facility.

wallaceToday  03:59 pm JST

Climate changes and droughts are causing problems at some hydro dams.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Consider in markets like China and Norway, well developed EV markets, consumers view ICE vehicles as zombie living dead with no future, as their gas stations disappear daily etc.

World will catch up eventually, tipping point, where most consumers take above view. Consider in India's micro EV market, scooters, 3 wheelers, motorcycles, etc. passed 50% market share in NEW units sold in 2022, today far higher.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

wallace

Today 02:54 pm JST

One fuel does not fit all situations. Even hydrogen will be very limited in many areas for decades to come. Billions of people have no electricity in their living spaces. Millions have no flushing toilets or piped water. EVs and hydrogen are the least of their problems. Millions cooking on open fires.

Yes to all of that but having been in many of these places, one thing is near universal, they have some form of transportation bringing supplies, fuel and food and that transportation is usually a ICE vehicle with extra fuel tanks etc...

Cut that off and they will be in an even worse situation!

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Here are a few numbers that explain why solar and EV dreams are just that.

The power of the Sun at the Earth, per square metre is called the solar constant and is approximately 1370 watts per square metre (W/m2)

This is basically the max energy from the sun under optimum conditions.

So as Musk put it, covering a car with panels wouldn't do very much.

1 megawatt can power 100 homes.

So one would need approximately 780m2 of solar panels to power 1000 homes, that is if the panels are getting sun at the 1370w/M2 consistently 24 hours a day.

But we know this is impossible so storage is needed, this requires thousands if not tens of thousands or more batteries which will require more space.

So 780m2 times a minimum 4 if not more would be needed to power 1000 homes plus a vast more space for battery storage.

Keep on mind this would be only if solar panels were somehow 100% efficient.

Now if you don't understand what this means, well it mean you would need around the same space or more that these 1000 homes occupy for the solar panels and storage.

So think of it as have a city with a second city of the same size or greater right next to it composed of solar panels only.

Now add in the energy needs of electric public transportation, EV trucks and cars you will need to increase the solar panel city even more.

I know the comeback " house would have panels on their roofs" look at Tokyo, New York, etc.. highrise condos small footprint in roof size with several dozen to hundreds of condos in each.

There wouldn't be enough roof space to power a small portion of the building.

Now again add in an EV car for every two apartments/condos.

The Netherlands realized this mistake, sinking time and money into solar but not reaching their goals, now offshore wind farms are the primary goal for the future still require storage but far less and the government is looking at EVs as potential storage units, in other words, larger battery capacity and store execs energy in their busses truck and cars that could be used to power homes in times of need.

When we are floating ideas of needing to use our cars to power our homes, it is time to rethink the EV etc..fast drive forward and instead sit back and look at things with a cool head and not the often fanatical way many of the so-called environmentalist are doing.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Sanjinosebleed

Today 09:22 am JST

EV are going to be the Beta in the Beta vs VHS comp. Hydrogen will win the day! Noone wants a car that can only be driven 5-600k then recharge then sooner rather than later batteries need replacing.

The only people that think EV is the future are people that live in or near cities.

Go to Africa, Siberia, Alaska, Nunavut South America, India, etc..

People in these places often Carry spare fuel because even gas stations are not available, entire villages may only rely on a single electric generator that only powers the lights and gasoline/diesel is trucked in and put in storage tanks.

In the mort northern areas of Canada and Siberia solar is useless, win is useless with there being little of no sun much of the year, and the blades on the turbines needing nearly 100% of the energy produced to stop them from freezing.

Hydrogen on the other hand can easily be stored and shipped in the same way gasoline and diesel, converting ECI into using hydrogen is fairly simple so large generators can be reused. A secondary benefit if the generator is properly designed is that the exhausted is water vapor that in drought pron areascthat vapor can be captured to be used as clean water.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

This is a good news. Apple has never made anything useful.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

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