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Apple loses about $200 billion in market capitalization on reports of iPhone restrictions in China

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Why no mention in this article that Apple (via Taiwan-owned producer Foxconn) started last month with having some iPhone 15 production being done in India, and plans to shift the entire iPhone production to there in the coming years.

I'd imagine a bit of angst about this was at least a part of the Chinese decision to ban the iPhone.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

meh, this is grasping at straws. Apple stocks is still relatively stable, AND the move by the CCP will probe to be an own goal, because USA would rather ban sales of advance phones to Chinese anyway.

Note, Chinese citizens with half a brain have been buying iPhones in Japan anyway, so this move by the CCP only reinforces the perception the CCP can't be trusted.

I doubt India will be able to replicate the Chinese supply chain, and IMHO it will be more like the Star Wars model where Apple will be sourcing specific components from specific regions because of specialisation. Read battery from SK, Chips from Taiwan, assembly in India and Vietnam...the days of Foxconn being the go to maker of iPhone is fading purely because the owner of Foxconn is too close to China, and too easily manipulated by the CCP.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The sky is falling! Who cares if share price x o/s shares has dropped? The number of Chinese government workers as a percentage of all iPhone owners there is small. India is a massive future market. AAPL is more than just iPhone.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Apple remains the most valued company in the world.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

This is not about Apple but the US-China Tech War. Russia can fight their 20th century military wars. China is fighting the US on the technology front.

The ban was first reported by the Wall Street Journal, which cited unnamed sources saying China is ordering officials at central government agencies not to use iPhones or other foreign branded phones.

Even if true, China is mirroring the Huawei ban.

Apple also faces a threat from Chinese tech giant Huawei, which recently launched its latest flagship smartphone, the Mate 60 Pro.

How can Huawei be a threat. They've been sanctioned and are just coming back now after 4 years While not a threat this goes to show that there is no single chip which the US can say to China if you don't have this chip then all your modernization efforts will grind to a halt.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Huawei has been low key about the device, but its capabilities have raised concerns that China has been able to circumvent U.S. curbs on Huawei that stop it from acquiring high tech components like advanced processor chips that had effectively crippled its smartphone business.

Not sure what the writer means by " low key" Huaway made a big deal about it all over China and as for:

has been selling briskly in China.

Way to understate thing.

It sold out with a few hours of being released for sale.

Huawei own subsidiary SMIC developed the HiSilicon Kirin 9000 has a AnTuTu benchmark score of 694127 and Qualcomm Snapdragon 865 has AnTuTu score of 600051. HiSilicon Kirin 9000 comes up with 8 cores, 3130 MHz frequency and on the other hand, Qualcomm Snapdragon 865 has 8 cores and 2840 MHz frequency.

It is 5G domestic developed and the phone is satellite voice call capabilities..

It seems the blocking of supply only increased China's move to develop faster their own chip industry without possibilities of being blocked by outside forces.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Huawei has been low key about the device, but its capabilities have raised concerns that China has been able to circumvent U.S. curbs on Huawei that stop it from acquiring high tech components like advanced processor chips that had effectively crippled its smartphone business.

This is China’s answer to Biden's chip ban which has failed.

The U.S. thought that it will take at least 2 decades to a generation for the Chinese to catch up. It took the Chinese less than 3 years. Just these 150 million units alone means the U.S. lose $300 billion dollar share of business that used to and could have been earned by U.S. chip companies,

The Chinese were happy to share their business and profits with the U.S. but the incompetent Biden administration had to push this away. They're making their own chips now. It's an indigenous production.

The US has turned their biggest customer into their biggest competitor. Incredible shortsightedness. Japan and Korea standing on the sidelines with "what now?" look on their faces.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I doubt India will be able to replicate the Chinese supply chain,

Probably for now.

Qualcomm will be losing around 60 million units in sales to China as by mid 2024 China will be replacing them with SMIC Kirin 9000 and others.

Indian companies are already in negotiations to purchase Kirin 9000 chips as soon as they become available outside China because they are faster and cheaper than Qualcomm so expect more lost sales.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

All part of realigning out of the dictatorship cabal. There are plenty of other customers.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Not sure what the writer means by " low key" Huaway made a big deal about it all over China and as for:

The low key part is not about Huawei or the Foreign ministry spokesperson balking at the ban. They were not quiet about it because bascially this is declaring an Technology War. It is an embargo of chips. Nor is the low key part about the promotion of the phone to be introduced.

The low key part refers to the period when they were working on producing the phone during the chips ban. They were quiet about the new phone that the West didn't think they could make because Japan, Korea, ASML and so on had to obey the US and not sell chips to Huawei. They had to go to SMIC.

They quietly made their new phone and presented in when the US Secretary of Commerce, Gina Raimondo was in Beijing last week. You can check online sites selling Gina Raimondo covers for the Huawei Mate 60 Pro phone.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Why no mention in this article that Apple (via Taiwan-owned producer Foxconn) started last month with having some iPhone 15 production being done in India, and plans to shift the entire iPhone production to there in the coming years.

That deal has been canceled. Foxconn is run by Chinese or Taiwanese. The chips war is a Chinese Civil War.

The Korean War or the Vietnam War and the Chinese Civil War (China versus China and not China versus Taiwan) took place last century. One Chinese side lost and fled to Taiwan. They are Chinese from mainland China and they built the Chinese chip industry in Taiwan, Foxconn,TSMC, MediaTek, ASE Technology Holdings, United Microelectronics Corp and so on. The other side are the chip companies in mainland China, SMIC, YMTC, GigaDevice and so on.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66160997

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 09:24 am JST

All part of realigning out of the dictatorship cabal. There are plenty of other customers

Where?

Apple is a high end device market.

iPhone has over 50% share off the market in just 10 countries and that includes North Korea, Monaco, Andorra and Lichtenstein.

Android devices dominate everywhere else.

Where will Apple sell that have a large enough growing upper income class?

India? No they prefer more freedom and choice and are generally not the type of people to waste money if unnecessary things.

The rest of Asia, again no , Africa not in this lifetime.

All the countries where iPhone dominates are countries with declining populations with certain ones increasing their populations by masse immigration and these immigrants are from Asia (including India), Africa and are not the type to blow thousands on an iPhone when a cheaper alternative is available.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

meh, this is grasping at straws. Apple stocks is still relatively stable, AND the move by the CCP will probe to be an own goal, because USA would rather ban sales of advance phones to Chinese anyway.

It's not really about the phones. It's about the chips 7nm and 5nm which SMIC is able to make now and use in production. Apple will be fine but it is still a $200 billion decrease in Apple's valuation.

Apple Execs have gone to Beijing to reassure them that APPLE is not relocating anywhere and proposes to expand operations in China. Who scoffs at $200 billion?

So here is the anwere for the China Collapse Crowd, if China makes a small restriction of the use of a phone and that makes a small cigarette burn of $200 billion, imagine if China does a scorch earth and bans all SC companies.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Android devices dominate everywhere else.

Android phones are not produced by a single company, they are made by many. Apple's iPads are now unbeatable.

The iPhone made Apple the richest company in the world. I would never have an Android phone.

The iPhone in Japan is the most popular.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

The only reason that the US is leading this movement to isolate China is that the US is afraid that it cannot compete with China. It started with Trump.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

When America was stabbing Huawei's back for political reasons, China can do the same at the back of Apple(AAPL) in retaliations, just it might take some time!

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Keep fighting China and losing..

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

We(Chinese) owns 19% of Apple(AAPL) revenues, we have a loud say!

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

@TaiwanisChina:

part of realigning out of the dictatorship cabal. There are plenty of other customers.

Yes exactly, just like Japan is complaining China's ban of Japanese fishery products, there is always greener grass outside China. Goto India now, just leave China, good night & good luck!

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Apple is the only company that makes the iPhone.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

gokai_wo_manekuToday 10:31 am JST

The only reason that the US is leading this movement to isolate China is that the US is afraid that it cannot compete with China. It started with Trump.

It's a 1.4 billion pound gorilla. Even assuming China remains as poor as it is today, the US is going to have to think about global supply chains and asymmetric warfare to keep that gorilla locked up where it belongs.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

elephant200Today 11:20 am JST

When America was stabbing Huawei's back for political reasons, China can do the same at the back of Apple(AAPL) in retaliations, just it might take some time!

As long as you acknowledge that China has lost its one diplomatic playing card by doing its own sanctions.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Apple remains the most valued company in the world..

Oh that's just the stock value, not the real value...

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Apple ranks as the most valuable company in the world with a market capitalization of $2.629 trillion.

Apple’s total assets as of December 31, 2022, totaled an impressive $346.74 billion.

"In its last quarterly filing of December 31, 2022, Apple reported $51.355 billion cash on hand. This is a combination of “cash and cash equivalents” and “marketable securities.” For the reporting period, cash and cash equivalents were $20,535 billion, and marketable securities were $30,820 billion."

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I have never had an iPhone but have been looking the prices of them recently because I might need one in the future. I would never buy anything from Apple, so they are out...besides from being stupidly over priced. I have looked at many Chinese made ones including Huawei, but some of them are very costly too. There is no way I am going to spend over £1200 ( 220,000.00 yen) on one.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

opheliajadefeldt

Apple devices last longer. My iPhone is the 12 from 2020, already 3 years old and I will keep it for another 2 years. You can also buy refurbished models of all devices.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Sept 6 (Reuters) - The U.S. Commerce Department should end all technology exports to Huawei and China's top semiconductor firm following the discovery of new chips in Huawei phones that may violate trade restrictions, the chair of the House of Representatives' committee on China said on Wednesday.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-lawmaker-calls-ending-huawei-smic-exports-after-chip-breakthrough-2023-09-06/

So where do they think Chiba got them from? Japan? Korea?

It’s impossible for China to make 7nm chips. They can make cheap shoes and plastic ¥100 Daiso products but not cutting edge chips. And you still live in the 1980’s.

The thing is the US can’t even make 7nm chips, but somehow SMIC is using US tech to make chips that the US can’t make.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

opheliajadefeldt

The new Huawei phone is around ¥144,000 well, so within your budget.

Wallace is right. The iPhone is still a superior phone but I agree with you, I wonder if it is worth the price.

Do you really need to buy a $86,000 car? I’d much just rather by a $46,000 one and use the $40,000 for something else This is a real example and an analogy.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

China and Russia were pushing a global boycott and distrust of Apple(AAPL). Never allowing government officials and business sector high ranking people to use iPhone. This is a threat to your country and exposure of your business secrets to US spy agencies. The iPhone is a spying machine dangering the human communications and international order!

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Chinese tech giant Huawei, which recently launched its latest flagship smartphone, the Mate 60 Pro.

This is the 5G cellphone not just for Chinese but also exporting to Russia to help Russian people using 5G, a effective method to evade western sanctions over Russia!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@TauwanisChina

US is going to have to think about global supply chains and asymmetric warfare to keep that gorilla locked up where it belongs.

It won't works as you wish, because China is the biggest single customer of iPhone. As long as China's ban of iPhone from government officials, business sector and civilians, Jim Cook is losing his business day by day. Do you think the Chinese government will let Apple(AAPL) have a free walk out of China without bleeding? NO !

Their losses of value will escalate when retaliation measures escalatiing. People might ask why should I buy a iPhone XX so expensive for nothing. Huawei will take away a large chunk of shares of now iPhone is having and Apple(AAPL) will be very difficult !

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

elephant200Today 12:49 pm JST

@TauwanisChina

US is going to have to think about global supply chains and asymmetric warfare to keep that gorilla locked up where it belongs.

It won't works as you wish, because China is the biggest single customer of iPhone. As long as China's ban of iPhone from government officials, business sector and civilians, Jim Cook is losing his business day by day. Do you think the Chinese government will let Apple(AAPL) have a free walk out of China without bleeding? NO !

Sounds like bad news for Apple. Fortunately we have many other tech companies including ones not tied to physical products. Also Apple isn't banned in China yet.

Their losses of value will escalate when retaliation measures escalatiing. People might ask why should I buy a iPhone XX so expensive for nothing. Huawei will take away a large chunk of shares of now iPhone is having and Apple(AAPL) will be very difficult !

People will continue to avoid Chinese garbage products as long as they have access to Apple and Samsung.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

With an Android just like Windows one has to worry about constant hacks and virus issues.

Not with Apple.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

CuteUsagiToday 02:52 pm JST

With an Android just like Windows one has to worry about constant hacks and virus issues.

Not with Apple.

On the other hand, you don't have to worry about a dystopian walled garden like iOS has.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

TaiwanIsNotChinaToday  03:44 pm JST

On the other hand, you don't have to worry about a dystopian walled garden like iOS has.

What on earth are you talking about?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

WandoraToday 04:38 pm JST

TaiwanIsNotChinaToday  03:44 pm JST

On the other hand, you don't have to worry about a dystopian walled garden like iOS has.

What on earth are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Apple devices last longer. My iPhone is the 12 from 2020, already 3 years old and I will keep it for another 2 years. You can also buy refurbished models of all devices.

My Asus Zenfone 5 is from 2018 and still going strong and cost nearly half what the iPhone 11 cost.

And I didn't have to deal with the closed environment of Apple.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

TaiwanIsNotChinaToday  04:52 pm JST

WandoraToday 04:38 pm JST

TaiwanIsNotChinaToday  03:44 pm JST

On the other hand, you don't have to worry about a dystopian walled garden like iOS has.

What on earth are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform

I know what a walled garden is. I just don't understand what's 'dystopian' about it. It's part of the reason I use Apple products. Their closed App Store protects against malware (sorry about the strict requirements for entry) and my family's myriad devices all work seamlessly together. Which part is bad again?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

It’s impossible for China to make 7nm chips. They can make cheap shoes and plastic ¥100 Daiso products but not cutting edge chips. And you still live in the 1980’s.

This sounds very familiar!

Oh right, replace China with Japan make it cheap toys and transistor radio and put cars in place of chips!

And all the western MSM were pushing this, Hollywood was making movies about bad Japan etc...boy when Asia starts not needed the west the western propaganda machine goes into overdrive.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Antiquesaving

   Apple devices last longer. My iPhone is the 12 from 2020, already 3 years old and I will keep it for another 2 years. You can also buy refurbished models of all devices.

> My Asus Zenfone 5 is from 2018 and still going strong and cost nearly half what the iPhone 11 cost.

> And I didn't have to deal with the closed environment of Apple.

I didn't mention the iPhone 11.

Amusing comparing an Asus Zenfone 5 with my iPhone 12, 128GB.

https://versus.com/en/apple-iphone-12-vs-asus-zenfone-5

You get what you pay for.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The Asus Zenfone 5 is from 2018. A resale value of less than ¥5,000.

iPhone 12 128GB resale value ¥60,000.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

My iPhone and iPad are essential business devices that help me earn money. They pay for themselves.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

wallaceToday  09:27 pm JST

My iPhone and iPad are essential business devices that help me earn money. They pay for themselves.

Yes.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I guess people who need a phone for nonbusiness should buy the cheaper models.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I didn't mention the iPhone 11.

> Amusing comparing an Asus Zenfone 5 with my iPhone 12, 128GB.

Why would I compare the iPhone 12 and Zenfone 5 when the iPhone 12 came out long after.

The IPhone 11 came out 2018 the Zenfone 5 in 2018 I was already being nice using the iPhone 11 and not iPhone 10

If you really want to compare the iPhone 12 released in October 2020 the we would have to compare with Zenfone 7 released in September 2020.

And they are very different with the Zenfone having a flip camera and costing 30% cheaper and again not chained to Apple controlled ecosystem.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

wallace

Today 09:58 pm JST

I guess people who need a phone for nonbusiness should buy the cheaper models

No we use for business and buy smarter.

Dual SIM no restrictions on the ecosystem, can use any device in the future without any trouble changing, no Carrier restrictions.

Lower initial cost and the same tax amortization benefit.

Nothing an iPhone can do my phone can't as for a better camera as many use as being some sort of "gotcha" if I want high quality photos, I will use my digital SLR with over a dozen lenses that I own from macro to my 1200mm F8 telephoto with full HD video capability.

And yes I use both my phone and camera for business.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

With the great camera on my iPhone, I no longer use my SLR. I want devices that communicate with each other without problems. I start a translation on my desktop and move over to the iPad in another room or my iPhone when on the train.

I have used Apple devices for 30 years and have not been disappointed.

If people want to use other devices that is their decision. In the long run, Apple devices saved me money.

The resale value of Apple devices is always good.

I don't have carrier restrictions and currently use POVO in Singapore which is very cheap for the DATA plans.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

My iPhone and iPad are essential business devices that help me earn money. They pay for themselves.

I use idevices personally, but not for work. We don't provide devices to our staff, no need. But we do provide computers, and we only use Macs. While you can gets significantly cheaper computers, between the better security of MacOS in general, plus the lack of having our staff down dealing with OS issues, we feel it's worth the investment.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Too much emphasis is being placed on market capitalization. Does it really affect long-term shareholders? However, it does affect CEO compensation.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Whether it's Tesla or Apple, market capitalization is the result of speculation and does not directly represent business performance.

If the U.S. imposes increasingly strict sanctions on China, Apple's market capitalization could rise as well.

The current tailwind for Apple is that the world's No. 1 market share for devices is Samsung at 27.38%, followed by Apple at 26.98%. However, Samsung is being left out of the global supply chain due to US policy.

Taiwan, the United States, and Japan are cooperating with each other, jointly developing technology and inviting each other to establish factories, but Samsung is lagging behind as it is not even close to completing its American factory.

If Samsung, the world's No. 1 company in terms of market share, declines in sales, it could be replaced by Apple, a low-cost Chinese smartphone, or Google. If they do a negative campaign for Chinese-made smartphones, iPhones will sell.

However, Apple also has weaknesses. There have been no revolutionary technological advances since the iPhone 13. Although it has a certain share in developed countries such as Japan and Taiwan, sales will gradually decline unless there are new technological innovations that only improve CPU performance.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

wallaceSep. 9  12:17 pm JST...........Hi Wallace, my ordinary mobile phone is 11yrs old and It was bought for me when I was 12. OK, I do not use it that much, and it is always switched off when not in use. I use it for emergencies only and cannot connect to the internet with it. The reason I am thinking now of upgrading to an iPhone is that so many organisations now use apps for their communications, and of course I cannot do this.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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