Apple's Mac no longer bucking PC industry's sales slide

Some Apple fans say an update for the popular MacBook Pro laptop is overdue

Loving my MacBook Pro, but want something much lighter to replace it.

Loving my MacBook Pro, but want something much lighter to replace it.

Me too. I've been waiting for the new line to be released to get a new one.

My desktop IMac (27) continues to serve me well after many years. Don't forget to back it all up! Your hard drive will fail long before your screen does. Watching DVD's will shorten the life of your hard drive faster than anything, and so will sloppy file management.

I like the MacBook Pro I have now but if the new model goes the way of the MacBook I won't be buying it. It needs to have plenty of different ports and a good keyboard. The MacBook keyboard is awful and the lack of ports makes it useless for me.

It needs to have plenty of different ports and a good keyboard. The MacBook keyboard is awful and the lack of ports makes it useless for me.

I agree. The path they went with the MacBook is a little baffling.

But I don't see that happening with the pro - it's the pro. Pros need ports.

I just bought a MacBook Pro this spring and love it. So fast! All the complaints are lost on me since I replaced my ancient 2008 iMac. A leap in light years in technology. The weight doesn't bother me at all. I even carry my iPad Pro around at the same time. Ports? Two USB 3 ports, HDMI, SDXC card slot, two Thunderbolt ports and an earphone jack. I only use the USB for my external hard drive for Time Machine and to backup my iPhone via iTunes. Printers and scanners these days are wireless as is internet. Even my speakers are connected via Bluetooth. People buying the iPad Pro will find out that a laptop/desktop is still necessary as the printer dialogue menu for iOS is seriously simplified. Also, Photoshop has been split up into various apps and I find it confusing and lacking in features, so I draw on the iPad in Procreate and import via iCloud to my Mac which has Photoshop. Not sure enough people are in the same situation as me to drive up future sales however. I do look forward to the day when Apple puts out an all in one iPad.

I still have that classic white Macbook running Snow Leopard and it works great. But, out of curiosity, I visited the Apple Store in Sao Paulo, and, gahhh!, the price of the new, simpler, Macbook is the same of a second-hand car!! No wonder sales are down. BTW, I felt that the new keyboard is great. Just have to get used to it.

Apple has no one to blame but themselves. I'm typing this on a 15" 2011 MacBook Pro that I bought for just under $1,900. I've added 16 GB of RAM and a 1 TB SSD. Nothing is user replaceable on the current MacBook Pros, so to get a machine with similar RAM and storage would cost me $3,000. Sure it would be faster and have a better screen, but it's not $1,100 better than my current machine.

The current models are designed like toasters with no user-replaceable or upgradeable parts, so if I need more storage or memory, I'm out of luck unless I want to buy a new computer.

Their fetish with thinness has meant the loss of the security slot, a big issue for those of us who have to use our computers in public areas.

You guys need to go back to the early days to compare prices. My Mac II desktop computer back in 1990, (I believe it was that year) was $4000 USD including a monitor and dot matrix printer. That's $7500 in today's money factoring in inflation. It did basically nothing. Today's computers are amazingly cheap for what you get. My Mac Book Pro was 150,000円 and a little more with Apple Care Protection. A decent workforce all in one printer you can get for less than $200. A little more in Japan. Still, a bargain. I don't remember many lap tops built by Apple that have been expandable. Ram, yes, but not much else. I've never had a problem with that.

I love my Macbook Air, I've been using it at home and work for the past 3 years, but I can see why sales are starting to slip. A lack of major hardware updates to their desktop and laptop line. Rumors floating around that Apple is intentionally making old their computers perform slower, forcing users to buy new computers. Shutting down third-party repair shops, forcing users to go through their own (more expensive) repair service.

The magnetic plug is cute and all, but really, time to start using standard plugs on the MBP. No reason an adapter should cost significant money if it was a standard plug. You can read the battery level from the lights or screen.

I have two HP's and each adapter can run the other computer. Both adapters are 3 to 5 years or something. I will probably never need to replace them. The amperage limit on the power adapter is significantly higher than what the units use, thus ensuring stable tolerances. Each adapter has fuses built right into the wires. Great quality wires, heavy duty, can be wrapped in any way and are over built and cost about $10 to replace if needed. Also one side is a standard three prong covered cable that any computer store in any little town would have. Easily replaceable.

Apple adapters? Better guard them and they will still go poof. Really low quality. Great battery yes, cheap ass adapter though. Good luck finding another adapter if you are not in a major city. Even used ones won't last. Just a running gag it seems to me. Keep selling lousy wires and see if anyone notices. Apparently it's worked?!?

Apple needs to start doing quality testing. Start removing all the cheap plastic and cheap wires here and there and make the MBP easy to repair. Not 100+ bolts in weird locations. Not special Torx screws to thwart general uses from general repairs. Easy replaceable keyboard? Nope, you have to take the entire unit apart! It's another gag.

MBP is a nice machine but if the general public can repair them other than myself with all the tools then Apple products might even last. Keep hosing customers and it just drives them away little by little.

BTW, the "new" Ipad Pro can't read a SDCARD, you need to use either an older unit with the previous OS or TWO cable adapters, one to the wall because the Ipad Pro doesn't allow a connected device to be bus powered. Hilarious. Should have easily been tested before release. Could have even added an SDcard reader directly given the OBVIOUS user base of photographers.

Apple would be wise to start embracing their rabid customer base to improve the quality of the units rather than milking every wire for 5000% markup. Bring actual cable quality and plug standards and stop its holier than thou attitudes. The fan bois will still gawk, but the rest of us would just like to be able to use the units without worry.

I'm a Linux user and the MBP makes a great Linux dev machine with pretty frontend icons but if it wasn't for the Apple battery voodoo on the unit I'd stick to my easily part replaceable HP. The bottom of most HP's has easy compartments to change memory and hdd in a snap.

Parts wear out. Battery is easy to remove at least. But I want a MBP where the fan(s) can be easily replaced. An easily replaceable keyboard with backlight. A standard plug for a standard adapter from any PC manufacturer (which are all OEM anyway). Oh, and I want to be able to add new thermal paste in a reasonable way too. Some people get screen problems too, so make that easy to replace too while we're at it.

It sounds like you want Macs to be a regular PC. You're probably better off just sticking with regular PCs. I don't think that you're the demographic Apple is looking to target - those of us who are in the target demographic are not interested in being able to replace this and tweak that. We just want a computer that works as-is, and doesn't need a bunch of tweaking.

sf2k: Basically, Apple users don't want a PC. Period. Also, I broke two power jacks on two different older iBooks. A bunch of others did too. That's the reason for the "cute" magnetic jack. Breakaway tech is the way to go. The light you don't like is handy as I don't have to open the laptop to read the battery level to know if it is charged. The Adapters you don't like make it possible for the devices to be thinner and smaller. Sucks to have to pay ¥7000 for one though.

We love our iphones, iPad Pro, and mini.

The adapter is a money suck that was already solved. Having a cutsy plug with hilariously bad wiring is an easy fix. I could probably add my own to the motherboard, if I had a used computer I might even try it. It's just electricity at a specific rate, there's no such thing as special Apple electricity. It will have a specific expectation from the adapter and adapters can accommodate just fine.

Devices of all types usually have a light that turns off when its charged. Hell, adding a light into the wire just to indicate that it's charging is not difficult as it would be in parallel.

Who breaks a power jack? I never have in 20 years. That's a pretty severe edge case for such a waste of utility in the design

PC just means personal computer. Doesn't have to be Windows. I use Linux, former Windows machines freed from the mother corporation. Apple is just another type.

When you force consumers to buy a newer machines with less HD and to put what they like to carry with them on cloud, you can legittimately expect an extra drop in sales together wih that caused by iPads and iPhones. I haven't changed my leptop 'cause I can't migrate my softare and files on a machine that has half the disc space of my previous one. I simply learned postponing postprocessing and elaboration, simplifying things and doing what I can on iPad. If I have, I will consider an old used one, form hich also I do not even neend softwares that authenticate on-line or force me to cloud (when I am no on a net or do not have connction).

You can't perhaps accept that among tens or hundreds of millions of Apple users, there may be some diversity of opinion on this and on what individual users need?

Sure there is probably some diversity, but they are looking for a product Apple isn't interested in selling. The reason Apple computers work as well as they do, is that they don't have to do a wide range of testing to ensure their products work with different hardware. They know exactly what will be used on their computers and what they are supporting, and they can test exactly for that. This allows them to keep everything running smoothly, which is their sales point and why people buy their computers. If they moved towards a Windows style - supporting everything and anything, they'd suffer in quality, and ruin their brand.

the Apple cable for one iPod won't plug into my other iPod, and neither of those iPods can be charged with an iPad cable, as I found out when I forgot to pack an iPod cable for travelling. This is farcical, really - you can have a variety of Apple devices that are all incompatible with each other, and with your non-Apple equipment.

That's only if you have really old devices. iPhone 5 and above, all iPad minis, and recent ipads and ipods all use the same connector. They switched a few years back, and all products they have made since then use the same type of cable. It's not like they are releasing devices that require different cables now.

Can an Apple user seriously say they get a better user experience when, to replace a lost cable, they need to first find out what type of port the device was using, then pay extra money to buy the replacement, and do so in the knowledge that the overpriced replacement cable is incompatible with other devices?

Yes.

We have a two year old MBP, the retina one. The screen is great, the touchpad is great, and the computer looks and feels nice, but I doubt we'll buy another one. The premium over a regular notebook is too much. The Apple price for extra memory and SDD capacity is a very bad joke.

It's my wife's computer and I find myself having to look at some common websites in Chrome because Safari won't render them with all their features. For simple browsing, an older 40,000-yen-when-new Acer laptop I have converted to a Chromebook with Neverware (Cloudready) is much snappier than the MBP. Same network connection, same website, but it comes up and scrolls way faster. I think most Apple fans would be amazed if they saw it.

Do you seriously contend that it is better for you to have to dick about with a variety of cables and connection ports even within the same family of devices like iPods, when there is a mainstream market out there which has come up with the solution that one cable type can handle this job just as well?

In our home, we have two macs (MBA and MBP) an ipod (recent), two iphones, and an ipad mini. The MBA and MBP use the same power cables, and the ipod, iphones and ipad mini all use the same cable. So I'm not seeing the issue you are having.

What's the extra you as a user are getting, bearing in mind that as sf2k said, you're not juicing your equipment with a unique form of Apple electricity?

Equipment that works well for years (still have my first MPB from 2010, my staff uses it), an ecosystem that works well together, less tinkering to make things work, and when something breaks, the Apple service is quality.

It's more expensive - I understand for some people, they'd rather not put out that money. Fair enough. I was a windows user for 2 decades before I switched to Apple though, and I've never looked back, and couldn't imagine going back. Apple products are worth the extra money to me.

I had a MacBook Pro die on me this year after 13 faithful years of service and little to no problems. The one I bought in 2008 is starting to show some wear and tear, but I also love the MacBook Air I bought and carry around with me to work on at various places. They are expensive, absolutely, but definitely superior products. If they were built as cheaply as regular PCs with Windows they'd only last a few years at best and sales would be higher, but as I said.

To those who don't like them, to each their own.

Nonetheless, it's an issue that does exist.

The way you write it, it's like they are creating different cables for each device. The fact is they changed their cables once - to a much better cable than the old one, and they use the same cable for all devices ever since they made that change. The only way around the issue you have run into would be to remain on the lesser technology indefinitely. The old ports were a lot bigger, so this would have required larger device sizes indefinitely. Better to move forward with the technology.

You might think I make too much of it

No, you are welcome to feel how you want about it - Apple is not for everyone by any means.

What I don't accept is people pushing the line of how well Apple gear works when, within its own rather tightly controlled sphere, a device can still be rendered incompatible or barely usable in very short order, either by the kind of cable used with it or by the software it will run (or that will recognize it).

It works well for that period of time though.

Six years. I must go and lie down...

I never had a windows computer that lasted six years. Not even once in two decades. And this one is still running strong - it's used daily by one of my staff members, and I used it daily for years before that.

@Strangerland

It sounds like you want Macs to be a regular PC. You're probably better off just sticking with regular PCs. I don't think that you're the demographic Apple is looking to target - those of us who are in the target demographic are not interested in being able to replace this and tweak that. We just want a computer that works as-is, and doesn't need a bunch of tweaking.

@Hooktrunk2

Basically, Apple users don't want a PC. Period.

Sorry that's not what I'm talking about. I mistakenly used PC in a general techie way I didn't mean to confuse. I was primarily discussing the cheap adapter Apple uses. Changing the adapter to one that will last ten years has nothing to do with the type of laptop. Further, it doesn't change what the laptop is should you use a different adapter. If I make my MBP use a different adapter, it's still a MBP. It's not like you are receiving special Apple electricity. It's all the same Chinese parts under the plastic. Just because it looks different doesn't mean it is different. The rest is just branding.

For some reason Apple users are suckers and shell out 70 bucks each time one blows when I had only to ever replace one adapter and it cost less than 10. Over the life of the unit you'll have paid for one adapter a year? 1 every 2 years or 3? That's still nuts. That's a product recall, not a sale.

I use a 2011 MacBooKPro and am learning Objective-C, Swift, and am already a Ruby language user. I know more about your computer than I care to comment on. I'm also a hardware trained technician.

You're right about the demographic though. I'll probably fix my computer making it last years longer before I buy another used one. And I'll buy second hand again, and save thousands because again, I can fix things. I don't need Apple Care. Besides Apple it going backwards on ports and compatibility. It's user punishment. I'm not a photographer but lately they're just hosing that demographic very badly given my friends' tale of woe with the Ipad Pro. He HAD TO return it.

Under the hood, it's all Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) parts. Everyone has their stuff made in China with other cheap parts from all over. You are using a Chinese made computer branded as Apple. It's not like it's particularly special part wise.

Yes, it has a nice design. I like the case and keyboard however of late the quality is dropping in newer units. I'm glad I have an older unit although if I had 2012 I'd at least have USB 3.0 . Looking at the forums Apple Care is really messing people up as well. That's not a good sign. They should be listening to their users. They are sitting on a cash horde of billions and billions of dollars. It's like they think money is all that matters now, not their products or service. When a company no longer cares it's a sign of decline.

Again, if they would just improve the quality of the machine it would be better machine. I was pointing out where. That doesn't make it a PC. Unless you are saying PCs are more reliable and you don't want that. On the contrary, you do. And it starts with the adapter.

I just can't seem to see the craze bout apple products, hell yeah they are statement devices but it's just another OEM, that apart I really can't bear the pain of sloppy ports restrictions and the blind cult like following. PC give way much satisfaction and productivity, and oh the latest pc devices now are as sleek as hell. so what's the fuss about?

@Mahmood

totally agree. I've done tech support long enough that Apple users are the most clueless ever experienced. The Special Snowflakes.

I'd run Linux full time but I need to actually make some apps for Apple users. They at least pay more versus Android where you need to use ad server content more

Whoever made Apple users crave the cheapest plastic ever and consider that their ideal material, should get the Gold medal for human manipulation

Yes, because 1) I have three Apple devices with three different cable requirements

Yes, but again, it's not like they are releasing different cords for different devices. They changed the cord at one point - if you have the cable from previous to that, you have one type. If you have devices from after that, you have the other type. All their devices use the same cable now. Better that than using inferior technology indefinitely just so that people can have the same cord as their old devices.

we live in a world where one cable can cover all such devices.

Yep, just like with all new Apple devices.

I'm fairly sceptical about the "better" cable too, mainly because Apple's in the habit of pushing things as better

Then you need to read about it - it's much better: http://www.macworld.com/article/2083257/what-you-need-to-know-about-thunderbolt-2.html

Let's not take the piss: the period you're referring to is a ludicrously short 15 months. There's no concept of a smoothly working ecosystem in that kind of enforced obsolescence.

And you have every right to believe that. In which case, it sounds like Apple isn't the right company for you - so you shouldn't use it. It will definitely keep your stress levels down. And if enough people feel the same way you do, and stop using Apple products, Apple will need to restructure their way of doing things so as not to go obsolete.

For some reason Apple users are suckers and shell out 70 bucks each time one blows

I've never had to replace one myself. Am I still a sucker?

I use a 2011 MacBooKPro and am learning Objective-C, Swift, and am already a Ruby language user. I know more about your computer than I care to comment on.

You should probably reserve comments like that when you don't know what the people you are talking to do for a living, or have in their backgrounds.

if they would just improve the quality of the machine it would be better machine.

That can be said of literally every product on the entire planet.

PC give way much satisfaction and productivity, and oh the latest pc devices now are as sleek as hell. so what's the fuss about?

If you don't get the fuss, you aren't the target demographic.

I've done tech support long enough that Apple users are the most clueless ever experienced.

That's why we use Apple, so we don't have to learn the ins and outs of a system that always needs fixing. My partner did a calculation one time looking at whether we should switch entirely to Apple, or keep using a combination of Windows and Apple computers in our office. Macs cost more, but he found that the cost benefit of using Macs was significantly better, due to less downtime from Windows issues.

Around the turn of the century, a main reason for my loyalty to Nokia was that they shipped phones without the power lead, the rationale being that most upgrading users didn't need one. Less waste and less pollution, as the leads were robust enough to last years and years.

iOS device leads are appallingly fragile, and the MacBook leads just a little bit better. Apple should realise the potential damage this causes to customer loyalty. Poor show, Tim Cook.

From here on out, every manufacturer would be using USB Type-C to power laptops, connect monitors, hard drives, peripherals, etc. One connector to rule them all, and in compatibility bind them.

Even Apple is using it. There's no reason Apple shouldn't use it on their new versions of iPhones, iPads, iPods, etc. USB Type-C is very adaptable to a wide variety of uses and specifications, and yes even Thunderbolt 3.

If Apple doesn't use it on new versions of their products, then they're just price-gouging you.

(BTW, we build our own Apple PCs here - for half the price of an equivalent spec Apple computer. Ever since Apple switched to the Intel x86 architecture, they've been using the same parts as other PCs that ya can get yourself off the shelf.)

I Bought a MBP at the end of last here, I hardly use it has I am a windows userand the only Software I have installed on it is Microsoft Office. For a 18man yen notebook one would expect it to be touch screen, boot faster and faster browser speed Nope, not the case, the MBP is as slow as a camel with 8G of Ram, even with the cheap price HD Apple Is so stingy that the HD is just 150G, there are just too many negatives for the MBP like the weight for example considering the hefty price tag.The slow browsing speed is unacceptable for a new PC. Apple is like a vampire Sucking people of their hard earned cash.Very arrogant company and I see nothing but decline after this.

My partner did a calculation one time looking at whether we should switch entirely to Apple, or keep using a combination of Windows and Apple computers in our office. Macs cost more, but he found that the cost benefit of using Macs was significantly better, due to less downtime from Windows issues.

That's interesting, I don't doubt the veracity of that either considering the work I've had to do on Windows. I imagine this refers to a desktop environment? I needed a portable AutoCAD rated laptop so I have the HP elitebook workstation series however I do enjoy the lighter MBP depending on the task at hand. My designer friend goes through a lot of adapters though so it's hard to say what the average is. If I ever run into any problems I'll probably just splice the Apple adapter wire for the plug and solder it to the adapter I want.

Totally fine to use the right tool for the job, I'm not questioning that. But if you're paying out thousands for questionable parts it's a bit much to accept a lower grade adapter versus PC's that do better at less cost. Make that bulletproof and axiomatically the MBP's are better.

At a higher sunk costs means Apple has to last a lot longer on stock parts so it'll be interesting to see if the math holds out for the statistical replacement rates

It would also help if Apple didn't make its users wait a year longer per upgrade cycle than they want to wait. There are, right now, new chips for all Apple's major computers waiting to be added. They declined to give us what we want in a speedy way, because "iPhone! iPhone! iPhone!" Meanwhile I have employees working with 6 year old Mac Pros because Apple won't deign to give me new iMacs or Mac minis.

Their desktop iMacs are quite nice to look at but a royal pain to upgrade. Apple has to realize that desktops are meant to have parts upgraded. Great for me when I raise the charge by the hour because of special tools that no one has but it would remove a lot of customer sneer. Apple turns a harddrive upgrade into a full monitor disassembly. Not my fault. Both bezel and LCD. And screws. Lots and lots of screws.... Also time wasted again just cleaning the LCD and bezel when you put it all back together. It's just not made to be upgraded. Maybe Apple can make the EMC unit number smaller, I can still kinda read it with the human eye. I'm sure that'll be fixed first, since making things more difficult is job #1, but absolutely never making it easier to upgrade/repair. Cha-ching!