Honda develops household gas engine cogeneration unit for use during power outage

So, what use will this be to the tens of millions that live in apartments? Perhaps for assisted suicide, but I sure as hell won't run one of these in my apartment.

And efficiency of only 26.3% even with co-generation? That is absolutely pathetic considering even standard power stations provide 35-55% efficiency, and co-generation should slap on an extra 25-50%. You'll need a ton of propane gas (quite literally) to run that thing, and that is far more dangerous than not having power.

but I sure as hell won't run one of these in my apartment.

It's meant to be stationed outside the building.

As for the article, how about purchase, installation and operating costs?

NeverSubmitSep. 27, 2012 - 10:38AM JST

It's meant to be stationed outside the building.

Not an apartment building, it can't even charge up cellphones at less than 1kW it produces (assuming 10 story building with 20 apartments per floor). This is meant for a small house and run to power refrigerator and minor electronics.

As for the article, how about purchase, installation and operating costs?

Given the size (<1kW) and efficiency (~25%), and the energy density of propane at 7.5kWh/L, you need just over 500mL of propane an hour. For a one week loss of power that ends up being about 85L of propane, or far more than I am comfortable leaving anywhere near a house, especially in earthquake zones. 85L of propane is enough to make a very powerful explosion if heated to rupture (common in situations caused by earthquakes). Operating costs are quite high, and cost potential for human harm is unacceptably large.

Got to pass on this. If they're saying 'power outage' after a big disaster, than it's not practical because your city gas could be off line for five weeks. The electricity was up and running in twenty-four hours up here in Sendai, especially the downtown area. A lot of people have those portable gas stoves. And, lets say, your house is a total mess after a natural disaster. How are you going to lug it around to a safe refuge site? We were all eating alfa rice and bananas for five days in a school gym until we knew it was safe to go back home for the night. And 980 W? You only need to power your cell phone basically. I mean you can live without this power generator. Save your money and wait for a nice dinner when life gets back to normal if there is an extended power situation.

zichiSep. 27, 2012 - 11:54AM JST

All houses and apartments in the countryside use bottled gas?

Most use fuel oil, which is far more stable cost and fuel wise, and the others are nowhere near another house. In hokkaido you see fuel oil very often, and cooking gas canisters as well, but rarely see canisters larger than 25L or so. Most larger tanks are usually buried under ground for extra protection, something you can only do in the middle of nowhere where you probably already have a much bigger generator.

In the areas which are most affected by blackouts, those near cities, houses have nearly no space between one another. It is there that compressed gasses are not recommended when above 25L, and in fact many places disallow them because they are simply too dangerous .

For 85L+, you would need a 25gal container, and under heat the explosion will be significantly higher than this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woODnJI4CZY (likely a 5gal gas grill tank)

Most use fuel oil, which is far more stable cost and fuel wise, and the others are nowhere near another house.

I don't know where you get that from. By 'fuel oil', do you mean kerosene used for heating? You should know that that is in addition to gas, not instead of. We have a kerosene tank for winter heating plus year-round centrally-piped LPG, but in other parts of our little town people use the huge tanks of LPG propped up outside the house, and they are far from being 'nowhere near another house'.

cleoSep. 27, 2012 - 01:10PM JST

I don't know where you get that from. By 'fuel oil', do you mean kerosene used for heating?

Yes, heating oil, heating fuel, or kerosene. Technically falls under Number 1 - 2 fuel oils, so any of the names is true, kerosene is probably the most specific though, with fuel oil being least specific. Lets just call it kerosine for now though, since it does make things more specific.

I don't remember the size but about 1.5m high. I used three or four at a time. They just stand next to the house, usually on the kitchen side. Never been to a place which uses fuel oil which would be impossible to cook with?

1.5m is probably a 25gal, which about the largest you can go before industrial sizes. Many of the houses I've seen have propane for stove-top and heating oil for heat, since propane is pretty expensive compared to fuel oil. 25gal is supposed to last up to a year or two depending on how much you use the range and how efficient it is, and usually 10gal is far more than you'll need to last through winter (until next refueling). Heating oil+propane mix is far safer to maintain, and sadly the engine can't run on heating oil or gasoline like many of it's competitors, so you end up with far more propane just sitting there, slowly rusting.

I don't know where you're getting your facts from? We would use 1 gas tank every week or two. The gas man comes around every week to check the supply?

Using a range for 60min/day and oven for 15min/day should use about 450000BTU (about what you can fit in a 5gal tank) per month. A 25gal tank hold about 2 million BTU, so it should last four months for kitchen use. This generator uses as much energy as a typical burner on high, so just under 3 months worth of cooking fuel is used in a week. If you turned it on for only an hour a day, it could last you three months, but it would be impossible to heat enough water to make the co-generation worthwhile.

The water heated is stored in a termo tank which is set next to this system. The hot water tank is some wher around 200~300l. Having said that I suggest the Enefarm system proposed by Tokyo Gas, it generates electrcity via fuel cell and also can be hooked up to solar panels and batteries so it can store any excess electricity that had been generated. The initial cost may be high but estimates given shows you break even in 10 to 15 year depending on future gas and fuel price.

There are micro gas turbines about the size of a fridge with power generation efficiency of 80%.

The neighbors might complain about the noise from a gas turbine, though. Those are pretty loud.

Fadamor Sep. 28, 2012 - 04:53AM JST The neighbors might complain about the noise from a gas turbine, though. Those are pretty loud.

If you modify the generator, you can put in any balcony of high density Tokyo apartments without distrubing your neighbors. To reduce the noice, the box or enclosure can be constructed of lightweight materials such as aluminum or a heat resistant plastic material. You would line the inside of the enclosure with a closed cell vinyl nitrile foam mat. You will need to duct in ventilation into the enclosure, and also be able to duct the exhaust away from the building. This will take a small degree of set up, but when you are done, it will be very quiet. You can also pick a small car muffler that was compact enough to fit inside the generators frame, and screwed to the generators exhaust port,the noise reduction is amazing. This not only enables you to use the quietest of components without performance penalty or danger to the engine, it greatly reduces the ambient temperature and radiant heat within your enclosure.

By the way, if you do the above modification, the noise level will be similar to having a portable air conditioning on. Noise will be manageable to the neighbors.