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Microsoft-Apple redux: the empire strikes back

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Microsoft...must remain compatible with older devices...Microsoft can write software which is as good as Apples but it has to be free of the constraints.... Apple can and has said to customers throw out all your old devices.

These are the major reasons I've stuck with Windows, and why other rational-thinking consumers should do the same.

Well, the business world certainly recognizes the disadvantages of Apple's "constraints," which why global business is run on PCs, not on Macs.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

There won't be any problems in Japan, with the Surface tablet or the tablet pro because Microsoft won't be selling them here probably because they expect a large number of OEM versions.

Many companies have changed to Apple computers and so many are using the iPads which can be used with Windows OS like Windows 7 or Windows 8.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Well, if Apple continues on there "sue everybody" war path, like they did in the past. Then they're probably going to hit hard times, just like they did in the past.

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I use a Windows computer on a daily basis and have both an iPad, and an iPod. I had purchased an older iMac but found I was really unable to use it simply because I didn't own any software that would make it useful and I wasn't willing to purchase a whole slew of expensive software to get it running so I ended up giving it away.

While Both platforms certainly have their strong and weak points, I believe I will be sticking with Windows for quite some time simply because they DO support their old platforms. If they didn't, I would have given up on this platform a long time ago as I would no longer have a reason to use it.

The one thing that really impressed me about Apple, however, was the fact that I could buy many applications for the iPad/iPod without incurring a huge expense. Ironically, I believe I have spent a lot more money on Apple Apps in a short time than I would have with Windows.

I also noticed that their software is much cheaper on the Macs as well and I have been really leaning towards buying a newer Apple laptop (Airmac) sometime in the future.

I am not sure if I will let go of the Windows as I have a lot of investment (software) and I also enjoy the fact that I can easily make my own PC or do my own upgrades whereas Apple seems to want you to buy their latest and newest machine.

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I am a computer programmer and I depend entirely on Microsoft applications. I just got Windows 8 and fantastic! It runs all the old programs. Hope to see this OS on a mobile phone!

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@hkitagawa

I just got Windows 8 and fantastic! Don't forget to install your anti-virus software ; )

@Stephen Jez

Well, if Apple continues on there "sue everybody" war path, like they did in the past. Then they're probably going to hit hard times, just like they did in the past.

Well, if Samsung continues on their "Copy catting" scheme, like they did in the past. Then Apple can stop suing.

@JeffLee

Well, the business world certainly recognizes the disadvantages of Apple's "constraints," which why global business is run on PCs, not on Macs.

Not true, A lot of businesses here in Japan are using Macs.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Except the only software that will run on the Surface it what it ships with and what is available in the RT app store so previous Microsoft software won't run on it.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

to the down voters, the Surface and the tablet pro won't be for sale in Japan.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

zichiOct. 28, 2012 - 08:04AM JST

Many companies have changed to Apple computers and so many are using the iPads which can be used with Windows OS like Windows 7 or Windows 8.

No, they haven't. What they have done is replace premium industrial products with iCrap, like hand scanners and even menus. The PCs still are there, Macs aren't replacing them, and icrap can't replace them.

hkitagawaOct. 28, 2012 - 10:31AM JST

I am a computer programmer and I depend entirely on Microsoft applications. I just got Windows 8 and fantastic! It runs all the old programs. Hope to see this OS on a mobile phone!

The fastest install ever too. Faster than Windows 7 SP1 upgrade even. Does have the issue of messed up keyboard settings in desktop vs metro since it can't use english display and japanese keyboard, but much easier to work around it than it was to set up a japanese keyboard in windows 7!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

basroil

Last year, 46% of companies in North America and Europe issued Macs to employees, according to a survey from Forrester Research.

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zichiOct. 28, 2012 - 11:31AM JST

Last year, 46% of companies in North America and Europe issued Macs to employees, according to a survey from Forrester Research.

Can't find that report anywhere. What I can find is among TECH companies, AND ALL APPLE PRODUCTS. Of those far less than a third are Macs, most Tech companies have only iPhone/iPad. When you have to develop software products, of course you need the hardware. IN FACT, APPLE DOESN'T LET YOU PROGRAM FOR THEIR DEVICES WITHOUT OSX! Basically, if a company offers an in-house developed iOS application (think banks, news agencies, etc), they had to buy apple products to do so.

You can program for Windows in any system, though debugging is through Windows.

Just because you're scared of Microsoft's success doesn't mean you have to attack them through every pointless and easily dismissed piece of information out there.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

I am not sure if I will let go of the Windows as I have a lot of investment (software) and I also enjoy the fact that I can easily make my own PC or do my own upgrades whereas Apple seems to want you to buy their latest and newest machine.

This is a dumb comment I hear only from Windows or Android users. Apple, as a tech company, has to release new and more modern products, or technology would get stalled. And no one is forced to upgrade or buy anything from the company. Upgrades are a option. If you look at the Apple Community threads you see there are people still using Safari 3.5 in old machines, and they're quite happy with that. But I understand why Windows/Android people get so angry: it's that Apple users buy new products anyway. What they can't understand is that unlike their gadgets that lose value in one or two years, Apple products are perceived as "family commodities", they are passed from father to son, to nephews, to brothers. As Apple devices are high-end quality, they are still wanted and valuable even after two or three years of use. Finally, what would be of the world if industries stopped releasing new versions of their products, just because some jerks are envious?

@basroil: so if you don't see then it's not true? It's a paradox, for I think you twist your point of view always towards a happy-end with Windows or Android. I think you don't see Apple devices because you are not used to sophisticated offices or businesses.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

A lot of businesses here in Japan are using Macs.

Like for payroll, resource planning, project management, accounting, tax management, customer services and the like? Does Apple even produce enterprise software for such tasks?

I think what you are Zichi are referring to are consumer handheld devices given to employees for checking email, making phone calls or typing reports while out of the office.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

LostinNagoyaOct. 28, 2012 - 12:15PM JST

so if you don't see then it's not true?

If the company that was "quoted" says a very different thing, then it's not true, as is the case here. Perhaps you should brush up on english writing styles to see that it was not "there is nothing so it doesn't exist", rather "they don't have that information, rather they say a very different thing when you look at their release".

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Lostin Nagoya

on my computer desk is a working iBook G3 from 2003 which only ever had one hard drive change. Still good for surfing and email. It was the G4 chip used in the rover sent to Mars because it was the only which could take the stress of the journey.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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basroil

Just because you're scared of Microsoft's success doesn't mean you have to attack them through every pointless and easily dismissed piece of information out there.

Just because you're scared of Apple's success doesn't mean you have to attack them through every pointless and easily dismissed piece of information out there.

I have informed you many times that I use Windows 7 on both my iPads and mac desktop and I'm happy with it although I don't like the Windows 8 so much and so far but that might change in a couple of years.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

.Like for payroll, resource planning, project management, accounting, tax management, customer services and the like? Does Apple even produce enterprise software for such tasks? I think what you are Zichi are referring to are consumer handheld devices given to employees for checking email, making phone calls or typing reports while out of the office.

Not true, Macs here runs productivity suites, managements systems, databases, book keeping softwares etc. In fact I built myself a personalized stock analyzer written in PHP, and its running like a charm in my macbook air.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What they can't understand is that unlike their gadgets that lose value in one or two years, Apple products are perceived as "family commodities", they are passed from father to son, to nephews, to brothers. As Apple devices are high-end quality, they are still wanted and valuable even after two or three years of use.

Well this is absolute bollocks, most Apple devices barely function past 3 or 4 years. Passed from father to son? Hardly, no more so than any other piece of technology, and I would argue less so than other technology.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

it's funny, crApple fanbois must jump in any MS articles to badmouth, as if they could hardly breathe without spouting non-sense. For the love of god, can you please stop embarrass yourself and all Apple users in general?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

zichiOct. 28, 2012 - 12:43PM JST

I have informed you many times that I use Windows 7 on both my iPads

Sorry, but I must inform you that that's utter bull. You might use a cheap remote desktop client on your ipan, but it's not W7 at all. In fact, W8 won't even run properly in that method (or bootcamp due to missing apple drivers) and thus you have a broken experience. Not to mention metro gestures are much more intuitive than the apple 4-finger gestures (who the hell makes a device so large that you need two hands just to hold it AND still need four fingers on the screen?)

Thomas Michael LewisOct. 28, 2012 - 01:14PM JST

Well this is absolute bollocks, most Apple devices barely function past 3 or 4 years. Passed from father to son? Hardly, no more so than any other piece of technology, and I would argue less so than other technology.

I did have an iPod back in the day, and it technically still works. Only issue is a horrible battery that gets used up within 36 months of normal everyday use.

titaniumdioxideOct. 28, 2012 - 12:54PM JST

Not true, Macs here runs productivity suites, managements systems, databases, book keeping softwares etc. In fact I built myself a personalized stock analyzer written in PHP, and its running like a charm in my macbook air.

Remote management of OSX is a pain, much more so than the elegant systems out there for Windows and Unix (not of darwin type). Ever used an exchange account to fully encrypt personal phones so they can use remote delete in case you lose it and it has important information? Quite good actually, very simple for client end since all you do is log in and hit yes. In fact, only recently has iOS been updated to support it (took about three years from launch), and OSX doesn't.

Windows 8 mail supports remote wipe of emails out of the box, and with things like windows2go in the enterprise realm, you can use a personal computer as a business tool without even setting up anything (all in the USB stick)

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

basroil

Sorry, but I must inform you that that's utter bull. You might use a cheap remote desktop client on your ipan, but it's not W7 at all. In fact, W8 won't even run properly in that method (or bootcamp due to missing apple drivers) and thus you have a broken experience. Not to mention metro gestures are much more intuitive than the apple 4-finger gestures (who the hell makes a device so large that you need two hands just to hold it AND still need four fingers on the screen?)

I use onlive desktop on my iPad which gives me full Windows 7 or I connect directly to my mac server and access Windows 7 that way. Don't matter much since both work very well at home or when I'm away. When I had Windows 8 on my mac desktop I didn't try it on my iPad but I think it would still work. iPads can be held by just one hand but I don't see holding the new Microsoft Surface being very comfortable. The new tablet pro will be even worse with its weight of 2 lbs. I don't use Bootcamp. Windows 7 is on my mac server which I run in coherence with OS X so I can just choose whichever app I want, Microsoft or Apple and often they are open at the same time.

Most of the time I have my iPads in clam style keyboard cases which also increases my battery time from 10 hours to 15 hours. When I go out I drop my iPad into a folio case. Not sure what you mean by four fingers on the screen. Never done that and in fact I use a stylus.

who the hell makes a device so large that you need two hands just to hold it

well I guess you one of the people who need the new iPad mini but I would wait until year when it will be released with a retina display at the price it is today.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

“Apple can and has said to customers, ‘Throw out all your old devices, because we have new ones.’

That's true; I have one "old" Mac that's really only a few years old, but the Mac App store won't let it upgrade to Mountain Lion because it was "too old," even though the hardware specs are pretty good, but good specs kinda defeats the purpose if it still won't let it upgrade. Too bad we can't just buy the upgrade discs on the shelves.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

it's funny, crApple fanbois must jump in any MS articles to badmouth, as if they could hardly breathe without spouting non-sense. For the love of god, can you please stop embarrass yourself and all Apple users in general?

If you we're smart you'd have realized that the very 1st post by a neurotic Window user mentions MAC. You guys are really confused.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

That's true; I have one "old" Mac that's really only a few years old, but the Mac App store won't let it upgrade to Mountain Lion because it was "too old," even though the hardware specs are pretty good, but good specs kinda defeats the purpose if it still won't let it upgrade. Too bad we can't just buy the upgrade discs on the shelves.

I think you don't know in your misinformed world what a chip is, let alone that new technologies require the last chip available to work properly. Well you made a point: use Windows, you won't need hardware upgrades...for you will get stalled in old technology.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Well this is absolute bollocks, most Apple devices barely function past 3 or 4 years. Passed from father to son? Hardly, no more so than any other piece of technology, and I would argue less so than other technology.

Apparently you don't read much. Apple was the only tech brand perceived as 'family commodity' in a recent survey with all major brands. In my family I have passed my iPod to my nephew who loves it, my iPod nano to another one and my iPhone 4S will go to my oldest nephew. My sister in law old Windows notebook? No one even cares about it. It''s just getting dusty.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

lostrune2

Windows 8 can't be installed on every windows type computer. There just comes a time when hardware upgrades are needed if you want the latest OS too. I have OS X tiger on my 2003 iBook but that's it no more oS upgrades.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Are Windows users in Japan happy you can't buy the new Microsoft Surface, or the Tablet Pro?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

LostinNagoyaOct. 28, 2012 - 03:13PM JST

I think you don't know in your misinformed world what a chip is, let alone that new technologies require the last chip available to work properly. Well you made a point: use Windows, you won't need hardware upgrades...for you will get stalled in old technology.

No, that's the most idiotic thing here (aside from comments by someone without the ability to install Windows 8 saying windows 8 is bad because he had a few minutes view). Windows always adds new features that are ONLY for better hardware. The difference is that they don't force you to upgrade hardware for zero reason. Take encrypted storage, AES optimizations, DXVA, Direct Compute, etc. All are features that hardware from 4 years ago won't likely handle, yet they only serve to increase the performance of the system, not to lock out people with older equipment. The darwin core is actually perfectly happy with older hardware, OSX just runs checks to mandate new hardware when it's not needed.

Aside from touch screens, what has changed in the last decade? Things get faster for sure, memories increase, and hard disks go to the TB now, but essentially it's no different from new computers. Most people can't tell you if they have intel or amd chips, if they have integrated graphics or a graphics card, hell, most don't even know the resolution of their display. Why force them to buy the newest and greatest hardware when they will be just fine on a half decade or whole decade old computer?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

In Britain, Microsoft failed to deliver the Windows Surface preorders and ended up giving the people a 50 pound coupon to compensate.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The more reviews I read, the more I see how Windows is the wrong choice.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

zichiOct. 28, 2012 - 03:42PM JST

In Britain, Microsoft failed to deliver SOME Windows Surface preorders ONTIME and ended up giving the people a 50 pound coupon to compensate, SAME AS APPLE DID AFTER THE FIRST IPHONE, BUT NOT AS FAR AS GIVING NEW UPGRADES TO PEOPLE WHO PURCHASED ONE LAST WEEK.

Yes, the number of people who bought Surface tablets was far more than anticipated and completely overwhelmed the supply chain. The tablets will be shippi.ng out straight from the factory rather than warehouses, so it looks like they managed to sell practically all of the initial 3-5 million unit lot (estimated by the same people who stated the items would be delayed). I corrected your statement.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

baroil

Microsoft's innovative new Windows 8 Surface tablet failed to make it to customers who preordered in Canada and the UK on launch day. No reason was given. http://www.canadianreviewer.com/cr/2012/10/26/surface-tension-microsoft-fails-to-deliver-on-canadian-and-u.html

2 ( +3 / -1 )

basroil,

so what about not being able to buy a Surface or pro in Japan, you must be disappointed?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

zichi, you've clearly lost the argument and are now resorting to personal attacks for no reason.

And for the record, the transition from Windows 7 to Windows 8 is far simpler than that of 98 to XP. I've been using smartphones and PMPs for so long that Windows 8 is easy and fun, as long as you accept the fact it's going to be different than before. You can still search for all the administrative tools, you can put programs practically anywhere (desktop, task bar, app screen, search only, in a "start menu" folder on your task bar), and all the Windows 7 programs work flawlessly. And of course, sleep to working is instantaneous (as fast as turning on the screen to my phone) and boot times are non-existent (10s including POST and intel drive management, about 3-4s without)

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

basroil,

zichi, you've clearly lost the argument and are now resorting to personal attacks for no reason.

excuse me! but what personal attacks have I made?

And for the record, the transition from Windows 7 to Windows 8 is far simpler than that of 98 to XP.

I didn't even mention any of this. I have only said I used Windows 8 on my mac desktop for several months during the beta period and personally I didn't much care for it so I will continue to use Windows 7, which works very well for me. I have never even stated that Windows 8 is "bad" just for the time being, not for me.

But you didn't answer the question about the Microsoft tablets not being available here in Japan?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

All readers, please keep the discussion civil. There is absolutely no reason for acrimony over this topic.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

baroil

Windows 8 works on the iPad with all the gestures.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

You can update your desktop to Windows 8 and since the Surface isn't available in Japan, if you have an iPad, you can can access Windows 8 with full touch gestures with that, or you can buy the new iPad with retina display and use that. It will be cheaper than some of the OEM Surface versions. The most expensive one I've seen is ¥100,000.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

zichiOct. 28, 2012 - 07:52PM JST

Windows 8 works on the iPad with all the gestures.

Nope, Windows 8 works on a PC, and that PC can be set to stream to a remote desktop client. You can do the same on android, windows 7 tablets, and even on windows xp tablets (usually only supports one touch point by driver limitations). I've used remote desktop for years, and splashtop is simply another non-conforming remote desktop app, of which there are many.

If you have Windows 8 though, you can control other windows 8 sessions with the built in remote desktop, and can use up to 256 touch points to do so (i.e. you and 20 friends can touch the same surface and be read), about 25 times more than iOS or android support (11 and 0-5 respectively). Splashtop does not specify how many points can be used, but it will likely be less than even iOS supports.

Article:

The Redmond, Washington-based giant has launched its own branded Surface tablet with prices and specifications similar to those of the iPad, and a new Windows 8 operating system designed for tablets.

Windows RT is not Windows 8, and Surface only uses Windows RT, not Windows 8 (Pro model does). While they are based in the same NT6.2 kernel, it is optimized for ARM chips and thus can't run standard applications built for a completely different architecture like x86/x64. In fact, it's like trying to run 64 bit software in a 32bit environment, just won't work without serious performance issues at best.

Likewise, this is the reason why android tablets and i-products CANNOT use Windows 8, and while it would technically be possible to port Windows RT to those devices, the sea of seemingly random combinations of chips, firmware, booting methods, and even touch types would cripple the ability to do some of the really great things RT can do.

But thanks to NT6.2, the back end is about as close as you can get to a real desktop OS, and it allows for the same business integration as a regular laptop or desktop. While Surface itself won't be used by too many businesses, other WinRT machines will (businesses like to use large computer hardware firms when possible to cut down on issues between hardware upgrades. There's a reason why Dell and HP are behind practically every business and academic oriented computer). And one big reason for WinRT over others: it can actually print using normal printers! (http://tabtimes.com/feature/ittech-solutions/2011/12/30/efis-tom-offutt-why-printing-your-ipad-or-android-tablet-isnt $500/printer for software, or free with RT http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/07/25/simplifying-printing-in-windows-8.aspx)

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

http://www.zdnet.com/photos/touchscreen-monitors_p4/6359364#photo

Great upgrade for anyone interested in Windows 8 gestures and multitouch. Works with any Windows 8 computer, and much cheaper than any tablet (Surface included). Or you can go with a touch screen upgrade for a laptop, those tend to be just $150 though mileage varies as the screen itself was never meant for touch.

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basroil but like I keep saying the Microsoft Surface Tablet and the coming Tablet Pro won't be available in Japan so what do you suggest?

I watched video's todays with iPads accessing Windows 8 with full gestures.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

basroil

but who wants to use a 23" touch screen display which would be bad for your eyes because it would be so close to be able to use it. I like to be at a meter or so away from my displays.

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Wow, a Microsoft/Apple holy war! Haven´t seen one of those for years. Keep it going, fanatics of both kingdoms.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

with Windows 7 or 8 on my mac desktop and with my iPad I can access it even when I'm on the road, can't do that with a 23" display?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If you we're smart you'd have realized that the very 1st post by a neurotic Window user mentions MAC. You guys are really confused.

Talk about lunatic

Are Windows users in Japan happy you can't buy the new Microsoft Surface, or the Tablet Pro?

Japanese users would be more than happy to buy a Sony Vaio / Thinkpad hybrid. Surface is just one product that runs Win8 among a plethora of devices. Have fun with your few crApple choices.

but who wants to use a 23" touch screen display which would be bad for your eyes because it would be so close to be able to use it. I like to be at a meter or so away from my displays.

A bs reason. No one asks you to use a 23'' touch display. You can use your very old keyboard, mouse, touchpad, what ever input you desire. Please use Win8 for a couple of minutes, then we can talk.

with Windows 7 or 8 on my mac desktop and with my iPad I can access it even when I'm on the road, can't do that with a 23" display?

wth, you installed Windows on your Mac? FYI, Apple provides crappy drivers for Windows. Want a premium Win PC, why not use a Vaio? You can access you PC from iPad, it's called Remote Desktop, and every other device can. That reason again is false.

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blackrockOct. 28, 2012 - 11:49PM JST

wth, you installed Windows on your Mac? FYI, Apple provides crappy drivers for Windows.

Yes, unless you flash over the firmware you're stuck with an inelegant solution or shitty drivers. The drivers don't allow sleep states for the processor or power management at all, and of course slowed down disk access.

However, zichi has stated many times that he doesn't even do that, he just uses parallels. That of course causes major issues with even two-three year old machines, namely the fact that Windows 8 can't make use of DirectX11 enhancements and is slowed down because of it.

Japanese users would be more than happy to buy a Sony Vaio / Thinkpad hybrid. Surface is just one product that runs Win8 among a plethora of devices. Have fun with your few crApple choices.

I think the surface issue actually is because of companies like Sony and Fujitsu, which have their own tablets including the Arrows tablet for Windows 8, 9mm thick with full Windows 8 support. They likely will eventually release the surface though, after the government stops their massive tariffs (or they use japanese companies to make the device, albeit at a bit higher price)

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blackrock

I was replying to basroil who provided a link to a 23" touch display. I used Windows 8 on my mac desktop for several months during the beta period. I didn't care for it much so I will continue with Windows 7. But that does not mean there's anything wrong with Windows 8, and probably in a couple of years I'll update too.

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blackrock, an important reason for using mac's ii that I find it easier when typing in Japanese than I do on my English version of Windows 7, and I have it installed on my mac server with Parallels and works just fine.

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basroil,

when I had Windows 8 on my mac with Parallels it worked fine and there was no slowing down or lack of speed with anything. Windows on a mac works just fine with photoshop and lightroom. I ran it on a five year old iMac and now I'm using a new Mac mini server. You don't need power management because that's done by the Mac OS. I guess you have never used it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

zichiOct. 29, 2012 - 01:19AM JST

when I had Windows 8 on my mac with Parallels it worked fine and there was no slowing down or lack of speed with anything.

Parallels 7 supports only DirectX9c (now about a decade old), and the brand new Parallels 8 supports only DX10 (not even 10.1, sure as hell not DX11). There are some features in W8 (and others for that fact) that simply cannot be turned on without proper graphics support (like DXVA). The result is a waste of processing power, enough that even simple tasks use much more CPU time than needed (in the case of video rendering, Parallels 7 was tested to be ten times slower than even bootcamp).

Windows on a mac works just fine with photoshop and lightroom.

Funny thing is, those are both CPU intensive but graphically pathetic. They run OGL2.5 and up, which anything that says GeForce or Radeon will handle just fine. Even integrated graphics from a decade ago more than meets the requirements. And both should never be run in parallels because you can run them natively, especially lightroom (don't even need to go through key exchange for it, just download the mac binaries)

You don't need power management because that's done by the Mac OS.

More than 70% of mac products are laptops. Native power management in windows goes down to the kernel level, and proper drivers for the motherboard and graphics chip are needed to control the power levels. If you've ever seen the battery tests for apple products, you know that virtualization and bootcamp both cause the battery life to halve. While Mac OS probably does some power management, it was never designed with virtualization in mind and will suffer.

Windows laptops on the other hand can natively adjust power use, and double the battery life without issue. In unregulated mode, my laptop gets about 3 hours playing video, 5 hours productivity (screen 100% both), and in regulated mode the laptop shoots up to about 5:30 for video (can do about 7 if SD video in mpeg format), 10 hours productivity. Windows RT and 8 take it one step further by optimizing the back end for power consumption, including completely rethinking "small" features like printer drivers to take up less space and cpu time (W8 64bit is 2.5gb packed, compared to 3.1gb for W7 x64) and large features (aero glass, Flash, etc) alike.

A good deal of the coolest windows 8 features are hardware linked, so no amount of virtualization will help (unless professional grade stuff, and even then some things like quicksync won't work)

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basroil I have noticed no performance difference when I use Windows 7 on my mac to when I use it on two Windows laptops I also own? It all performs in a way that I can't see any difference?

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I used to use windows, now I use Mac , not going back to windows! New os for Mac is about 25$ for windows more than 10 times that. Most apps are cheap compared to buyin the different windows software you need. On top of it on my Mac I can change to any language without paying more, on windows you have to buy! I think that sucks, especially after spending 300$ on a new OS! But then everyone has the freedom to choose what they like, it's a personal decision, whatever you are comfortable with I suppose......

0 ( +1 / -1 )

MicahDLMOct. 29, 2012 - 09:15AM JST

New os for Mac is about 25$ for windows more than 10 times that

1) $40 is not ten times more than $25 regardless of what you might believe. Even past systems that ran about $100 (as they have since 1993) it's not ten times.

2) OSx 10.0 to 10.5 all cost $130 to upgrade, 10.6-7 were $30, only 10.8 is $20 (not $25). If you could somehow have one system go from 10.0 to 10.8, it would cost you a staggering $860, while buying windows upgrades would be just $200 (full versions of windows from XP to Windows 8 for just $520). I think you're math need to be redone a bit, especially if you were to include the fact that any computer from 2005 would require brand new hardware, meaning the upgrade from 10.4 or so to 10.8 would end up costing you well over $1000, more than five times more than windows.

3) No apple computer made before 2007 can run the software, and in fact some machines that could run 10.7 can't run 10.8 despite there being absolutely no physical reason not to allow it (similar computer with same type of graphics and cpu chips, like macbook that can upgrade and macbook air that can't).

4) Windows 8 can be installed on any computer that was made since about 2003, maybe 2004. That's practically all the computers that are still in use.

Most apps are cheap compared to buyin the different windows software you need.

If you don't care about using professional software like Office, which you simply can't get for iOS or Android, then you should only compare it to things like OpenOffice, which are not as good but still better than anything in the app store. And it's free. In fact, you don't need to buy a single piece of software for Windows if you don't want to, just check open source and freeware programs. In fact, a lot of the best programs simply can't be used in iOS without jailbreaking due to GNU licensing. And considering there's 1900 flashlight and 1100 fart noise apps and you need exactly zero of them, most apps are useless compared to windows software.

On top of it on my Mac I can change to any language without paying more, on windows you have to buy!

Clearly you have never used Windows 8 and should stop discussing it. Windows 8 allows you to install any display and input language available, and in fact multiple languages if you choose. It's as simple as adding a keyboard language and clicking download.

I think that sucks, especially after spending 300$ on a new OS!

Even brand new Windows 8 Pro full install will set you back just $130, upgrades are currently $39.99 for Pro, or $14.99 for those who bought Windows 7 computers in the last six months. Stating a price up to twenty times higher than the actual price is just being ignorant of the facts.

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That's true; I have one "old" Mac that's really only a few years old, but the Mac App store won't let it upgrade to Mountain Lion because it was "too old," even though the hardware specs are pretty good, but good specs kinda defeats the purpose if it still won't let it upgrade. Too bad we can't just buy the upgrade discs on the shelves.

I think you don't know in your misinformed world what a chip is, let alone that new technologies require the last chip available to work properly. Well you made a point: use Windows, you won't need hardware upgrades...for you will get stalled in old technology.

Oh please. I build my own computers.

lostrune2

Windows 8 can't be installed on every windows type computer. There just comes a time when hardware upgrades are needed if you want the latest OS too. I have OS X tiger on my 2003 iBook but that's it no more oS upgrades.

Hey zichi. The Mac was only from late 2008, IIRC. Hardware isn't the issue. As I said, specs good enough to support the latest OS, but won't upgrade due to pre-10.6.

(In contrast, I could still upgrade an old "powerful P4" XP computer to W8 if I decide.)

Anyways, gonna stick on W7 mostly for now, even though I get W8 at no cost from MS, heheheh.

(Unless someone gets me a dual i7 ultrabook/touchpad hybrid.)

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lostrune2Oct. 29, 2012 - 02:02PM JST

(In contrast, I could still upgrade an old "powerful P4" XP computer to W8 if I decide.)

Yup, even the old 1.4gh willamette core (2001) is good enough, and you can get away with 512mb ram if you so please. AMD chips didn't have SSE2 until 2003/2004 though, so AMD chips are harder to place. Interestingly, there's claims of 22 second boot times with 1.4gh chip and 512mb ram. Skeptical of that speed, but if it's true it's faster than cold boot of OSX on a Mac Pro. Personally I can't even time my boot, too fast.

Anyways, gonna stick on W7 mostly for now, even though I get W8 at no cost from MS, heheheh.

Unless your reason is drivers related (reason why my laptop is still W7), no problems at all. In fact, I love the ability to use pooled drives, lets me get nice, large 5+TB drives without messing up my programs. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/01/windows-8-storage-spaces-detailed-pooling-redundant-disk-space-for-all/ As a photographer that takes many hundreds of GB worth of photo and video, this really simplifies backup, as well as completely eliminating the need for an expensive system like drobo.

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