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Microsoft launches Windows 8, Surface tablet

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Nice maid! I wonder what she does in her spare time?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Microsoft has a real opportunity to take a bit out of both Google and apple with this if done correctly. To have a tablet running the same OS as your desktop is a huge advantage over both of their competitors.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Had a play with Windoze8 the other day at the denki. I can see the Apple shares rising pretty quickly cos Winoze8 is rubbish.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Disillusioned - You think that many will resort to using a Mac emulator and installing OSX on their systems, in favour of sticking with a Windows 7/Vista/XP environment or upgrading to Windows 8? Just find it strange as Windows 8 really isn't in direct competition as such against an Apple product.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Windows 8 devices and the company’s new Surface tablet are seen as a challenge to Apple’s popular iPad."

Bwa hahaha! Seen as such by whom? people at Microsoft?

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Can you print from a Windows RT tablet? click the "column" link in the article. Find out the answer.

Windows 8, Win8 and Windows RT seem to be proud successors in the Windows family to Windows ME and Vista.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

To have a tablet running the same OS as your desktop is a huge advantage over both of their competitors.

Not at all. Microsoft tried that 10 years ago and it was rubbish. Not only that they are confusing the market by releasing a mostly tablet OS Windows RT and a full OS Windows Pro.

The whole reason iPad revolutionized the market is that they didn't go with the foolish idea of releasing a tablet with a desktop OS.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I just went to buy an upgrade it a minute ago, Friday, at the Microsoft official site. It said "buy" but then said it Windows 8 wasn't available, and the Japanese site directed me to the all-English US site, which doesn't give any hint when 8 will be ready. "Come back soon," was all I was told. I mean, WTF???

I guess Microsoft hasn't bothered to update its own website for the last few months? That's what happens when you put Steve Balmer in charge of company.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

All reports suggest that Windows 8 is another Vista, essentially a misguided approach that will alienate users. I expect this will become more clear over time.

What I wish is that Microsoft would finally make one good stable OS. Win 7 has all kinds of issues with email, with crashes and stalls, making a lot of people I know roll backwards to the updated XP.

I run a new PC side by side in our studio with a new Mac. And on a month by month basis for the last year, I have not had any issues with the Mac or its OS. But the PC frequently requires some intervention.

At the office all the programmers use PC at work running win 7, but all their personal machines are MAC. As are their tablets.

Not because they love Mac, but because there are ongoing issues with Windows usability and stability.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

A sales girl

hahaah

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Microsoft tries to play catch-up again by putting together a muscle car with great components held together with a crappy OS. It would be one thing if it was actually a Win 8 OS, but its a stripped down confusing thing that is going to further erode consumers confidence in MS.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I'm pretty sure Windows 8 is going to be called sarcastically referred to as "Windows Hate" in the months ahead.

I mean, technically it's an improvement on Windows 7 in a lot of performance metrics. It's a shame that nobody will figure out how to use the damn thing, thanks to that godawful user interface.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I have not tried it, but from reading about Win 8 it seems to be that they try to extend the "smartphone" feeling to PC desktop users. Well, some of us desktop users don´t like the smartphone feeling on our desktops. As for me, the last thing I need is fancy, flashing live buttons on my large screen. And no, I dont want to stick my fingers on the sceen like a toddler all the time, either.

The two devices are different and need different user interfaces.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Neo_RioOct. 26, 2012 - 11:33AM JST

I mean, technically it's an improvement on Windows 7 in a lot of performance metrics. It's a shame that nobody will figure out how to use the damn thing, thanks to that godawful user interface.

I've used Metro interfaces since the Zune HD, they are actually the best thing in touch ui, and the best improvement in ui in general since the creation of the windowed user interface (which is practically obsolete by now). They do take a bit to get used to, but after that you'll ask yourself why the hell anyone puts up with the android/iOS garbage with all it's inaccuracies and practically pointless icon lists. Hell, if you look at iOS/android app lists, they look exactly like Microsoft Bob, and that was universally criticized for just about everything including the absolutely pointless icon system.

Sure there's quirks that will need to be ironed out, but even Windows 7 had issues (everyone complained about taskbar) and Win XP didn't even take off for two years (people downgraded to windows ME for crying out loud). You'll see all the complaints die down in a few months.

tkoind2Oct. 26, 2012 - 09:27AM JST

What I wish is that Microsoft would finally make one good stable OS. Win 7 has all kinds of issues with email, with crashes and stalls, making a lot of people I know roll backwards to the updated XP.

You want to tell that to the dozen computers under my control? I have one computer that's been on for six months (on 24/7), half dozen on/hibernating/sleep for twice that. Windows 7 is actually far more stable than even SP3 on XP, and many times better than 10.5 (can't speak about the rest as I haven't bothered to use an overpriced underperforming system in ages)

I personally have NEVER seen someone downgrade to XP, and never seen anyone use XP mode for anything other than testing viruses (I personally installed XP mode and just forgot about it)

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Microsoft tries to play catch-up again

Microsoft announced the first PC tablets in 2001: Apple, about a decade later.

100s of models PC tablets were sold throughout the 2000s, with a big market jet-setting executives and serious users. Not whiny college kids on trust funds, ie the typical Mac user profile.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Jeff lee - I had no idea that there were tens of millions of Mac users in the world who were whiny trust fund babies!

Jeff - why would you be so upset over the success of a company that has absolutely nothing to do with you and affects you in no way, shape or form? Where does this anger come from??

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Win 7 has all kinds of issues with email, with crashes and stalls

No it doesn't. And I say that having used XP for the better part of a decade. Finally upgrading to Windows 7 was revelatory. It's sooooooooo much more stable, and really smooth.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I already have Microsoft Visual studio 2012 pro. Once I get Windows 8 and the windows phone, I will be able to make some great marketable apps. Visual studio 2012 alone is about $8k fortunately I had to pay nothing for the pro version. :) Microsoft really made a huge leap forward in the industry with the Windows 8 platform. The anti-windows 8 commentators here don't understand what just happened here. It's not about releasing a new OS or a new tablet. The tablet, OS, Visual studio and phone were all released o the same year to complement one another.

It's too early to say just how good OS Win8 is, but Visual studio 2012 just like it's predecessor 2012 Ultimate are the best developer studio tools in the market with the new C#, C++, F#, Azure, Javascript and ect. I foresee some of the most amazing apps in the coming years developing on the mentioned platform. And I will have the opportunity to take part in this endeavor. :)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Well, honestly speaking I'm very much disappointed by Microsoft this time more than Vista release, I dont use Mac and I am using Windows OS since 95 edition, Windows8 is very confusing and unfriendly!! Now if I have to learn from scratch then why will I stick to Windows??? I have other options like Apple PCs....byebye microsoft

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@AiserX: same here, been waiting for a WinPhone 8. Native APIs, can't be more exciting.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

JeffLeeOct. 26, 2012 - 12:04PM JST

Microsoft announced the first PC tablets in 2001: Apple, about a decade later.

To be honest, Apple failed with tablets back in 1993 with both the Newton and Penlite. People always forget to mention Apple's failings, which like Microsoft's failed products, are decent products with horrible timing.

While Apple ended up taking the PDA route, Microsoft tried putting a full operating system but it was too much for most:

http://articles.cnn.com/2001-11-21/tech/tablet.pc.idg_1_tablet-pcs-ibm-comdex?_s=PM:TECH

This latest iteration is a great combination though from a technological standpoint. Nobody is going to complain about desktop not working well with touch, and at the same time you get the full power of the NT6.2 kernel (minus x86/x64 programs that are not going to work on an arm processor in the first place)

hoserfellaOct. 26, 2012 - 12:17PM JST

Jeff lee - I had no idea that there were tens of millions of Mac users in the world who were whiny trust fund babies!

I bet you also didn't know that there are billions (well, a bit over a billion) Windows users.

AiserXOct. 26, 2012 - 12:57PM JST

It's too early to say just how good OS Win8 is, but Visual studio 2012 just like it's predecessor 2012 Ultimate are the best developer studio tools in the market with the new C#, C++, F#, Azure, Javascript and ect. I foresee some of the most amazing apps in the coming years developing on the mentioned platform. And I will have the opportunity to take part in this endeavor. :)

I don't have $500 (minimum non MSDN version) to spare so I'm using express for desktop, and it works like a charm, compiles all my 2010 project files without issue, and now comes with x64 compilers built in. As soon as I go for 8 I'll probably be just as happy with express for 8, and finally make the apps I've been wanting to make. And it's not just 8, phone 8, and developer tools, it's also server 2012, which is a whole lot of code for one month of release date.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Windows Surface,

DOA!

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

@basroil: If you are working in college, you can download the ultimate version from DreamSpark as in my case.

Hell, Visual Studio is the sole reason that makes me refuse to use any other platforms. I mostly develop cross-platform applications, so which OS I use doesn't matter. Now they even integrate Python support into VS, cool.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Can't wait to see how they're going to explain the differences between Windows 8 and Windows RT! Will be a catastrophic mess.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The anti-windows 8 commentators here don't understand what just happened here. It's not about releasing a new OS or a new tablet. The tablet, OS, Visual studio and phone were all released o the same year to complement one another

AiserX, u need to understand that most of the Windows users are not developers, average user hardly has deep IT knowledge and they use Windows PC OS for work or personal use! For them this is really hard to go through a new process, especially for house wives or older people who dont use PC much. And if you have an iPad then u will certainly not buy Surface tablet unless you are overflowing with money. Average market user makes the numbers which turns to millions not developers! I'm good with Windows7 for the while unless Microsoft thinks of people like us, else I'm going to be a Mac user soon!!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@waxman: Most of people who upgrade are tech enthusiasts anyway. For majority who are using Win7, my advice is not to upgrade. Win8 without a touch screen or at least a supported touchpad, is like fish without water, although it's slightly faster than 7.

There will be a bunch of new convertible/hybrid laptops and x86/64 tablets, where Win8 shows its true potentials. I personally don't rate the ARM version Win8 as much, it just aims to compete in the for-fun tablet market like the iPad.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

You can only use one browser on the Surface. Which one? The one which has remained at the bottom of my browser list for the past 15 years.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

WaxmanOct. 26, 2012 - 01:38PM JST

they use Windows PC OS for work or personal use! For them this is really hard to go through a new process, especially for house wives or older people who dont use PC much.

You are joking right? Most of those people don't know what the hell a start menu is (I wish it was a hyperbole, it's not). For them, this new interface is all they need, especially if all they do is visit websites and check emails, maybe watch a few videos, you know, non-business things.

zichiOct. 26, 2012 - 01:55PM JST

You can only use one browser on the Surface. Which one? The one which has remained at the bottom of my browser list for the past 15 years

Just stop being ignorant of everything already posted THAT YOU COMMENTED ON!

http://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2012/10/04/firefox-metro-preview/

You CAN USE ANY BROWSER IN METRO, WITH ANY RENDERING AND JAVASCRIPT ENGINE (unlike iSuckOS, which forces everyone else to use outdated versions of webkit)

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

basroil,

on my iPad I can use many browsers but in fact only use Safari, Chrome and Mercury. Which browsers other than IE can be used on the surface?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

JeffLee - Not sure what links you were following, but the Microsoft US site's links through to the upgrade assistant where you can buy and download the upgrade has been up since this morning.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/buy?ocid=GA8_O_WOL_DIS_ShopHP_FPP_Light

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Buyers need to be aware that not all makes of a Windows 8 tablet will be the same. Some come with keyboards other don't. Not all are using the same chips. Needs checking out before deciding which one to buy. Don't have that problem with iPads, the models are the same whoever you buy it from.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@waxman

While it is true that older people don't use pc as much, and others whom are not tech enthusiast wont understand the learning curve of the new Win8, it is still necessary to make this transition.

Windows Vista is a demonstrable example of this. What happened was that other tech companies were growing impatient with having to support outdated hardware because people were still using OS's older then even XP since Microsoft had like 96% or so market share.Though today the market share still hovers at around 76% is still a good chunk.As such Microsoft was holding back the tech world. Microsoft then forced these people to make the transition by making Vista. hey took a huge risky loss on Vista, sure but that set the stage for the huge success that was Win7.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/buy

Buy and Upgrade link now available! Upgrade at your own risk!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Visited the Windows app store to check out what apps are available for the Surface. What a confusing site, I couldn't even find them?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

zichiOct. 26, 2012 - 02:12PM JST

on my iPad I can use many browsers but in fact only use Safari, Chrome and Mercury. Which browsers other than IE can be used on the surface?

Nope, you can only use Safari or old safari with themes. Apple took 2-3 years before allowing others to use iOS for web browsing APIs, and they still lock down the system to safari components (usually older variants only). Hell, chrome doesn't even exist for iOS, it's a completely different program than the desktop one. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ios-web-browser-safari,3326.html Pretty damning information there.

Surface uses the WinRT libraries so creating a browser isn't impossible at all. It's in fact easier to do so than with iOS even excluding built in libraries, but for developers that want to make browsers like those in iOS, it's easy enough since the backend is hidden away and already optimized for RT devices.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

hoserfellaOct. 26, 2012 - 12:17PM JST

Jeff lee - I had no idea that there were tens of millions of Mac users in the world who were whiny trust fund babies!

I bet you also didn't know that there are billions (well, a bit over a billion) Windows users.

Basroil - I did, difference is I don't care who uses what and how successful a company is if it has nothing to do with me!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@hoserfella

Where does this anger come from??

"Anger"? LOL. it's called "sarcasm," and Apple fans make such easy targets.

Also, before I pointed out something called "the truth" in my post, I described the "profile" of Mac users, not all 10 million of them. That means that the 10 million Apple fans worldwide deviate from a spoiled, hyper-opinionated college kid. (Warning: another instance of sarcasm)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

basroil

Nope, you can only use Safari or old safari with themes. Apple took 2-3 years before allowing others to use iOS for web browsing APIs, and they still lock down the system to safari components (usually older variants only). Hell, chrome doesn't even exist for iOS, it's a completely different program than the desktop one.

i guess you don't know what you are talking about. I'm typing this on my iPad with iOS6 using Chrome browser which even sync's with my desktop version. Safari is even better. I can open Safari on my iPad and then go to my desktop or any other computer I'm logged into and when I open Safari it's just like I left it on my iPad. Opera which is also on my iPad sync's.

You didn't answer the question about what browser does Window's Surface ship with or which ones can I download from the App Store? I ever said it would be impossible to create a browser but which ones can I use today?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@soldave The link seems to be fixed this afternoon. This morning, I was being automatically redirected to the US site that says 8 ain't ready yet. The button advertised the 3,300 yen upgrade offer on 8 Pro.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Jeff lee - u can call it whatever you want, but there is no mistaking it; you are angered and upset the minute anyone says "Apple".

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The Windows Surface tablet ships with IE10. Firefox might be approved?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

JeffLeeOct. 26, 2012 - 04:17PM JST

@soldave The link seems to be fixed this afternoon. This morning, I was being automatically redirected to the US site that says 8 ain't ready yet. The button advertised the 3,300 yen upgrade offer on 8 Pro.

12 am Mountain time for some weird reason. I attribute it to an issue with the redirect server, one of the problems you get with using them and attempting to prevent early access. Everything works just fine now though, including the download tool in a dozen languages and currencies.

zichiOct. 26, 2012 - 04:15PM JST

i guess you don't know what you are talking about. I'm typing this on my iPad with iOS6 using Chrome browser which even sync's with my desktop version

No, just because you can use sync doesn't mean it's chrome. It's just the few scraps of code they could plaster on top of the old safari engine, basically a new theme and things completely unrelated to actual web browsing. Stop lying to yourself, it's very well known that iOS does not allow competing browsers:

Some had hoped Chrome would be able to make use of its own V8 JavaScript engine, but this was largely a pie-in-the-sky wish—those painfully familiar with Apple's policies knew that wouldn't happen anytime soon, and this release of Chrome for iOS confirms it http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/06/chrome-for-ios-review-syncing-is-great-but-still-just-a-webkit-wrapper/

And you know what? It doesn't matter what RT allows you to or doesn't compared to Windows 8, it's not competing against it. The fact of the matter is that none of the rivals allow you to have anything else as a default (at least not without jailbreaking or very convoluted methods for Android), and only Android allows alternative browsers (rather than a specific set of browser internals with different themes on top and addons on the side).

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Windows Surface vs new Ipad retina display specs http://www.gizmag.com/surface-vs-ipad-4/24732/

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I guess there will only be third party apps for the Windows Surface if there's a market for them so we'll have to wait a couple of years to know?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The Windows Tablet Pro weights 2lbs or 910 gm. That won't be held in the hand much?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

MS Surface being sold out with a 3-week backorder can be understandable, given that it's a new class of device:

http://www.examiner.com/article/microsoft-surface-rt-entirely-sold-out-the-united-states

But I don't see getting it at least until the Intel CPU versions come out. It's a tablet that can run true computer OS (can't wait to try it on a *nix-based OS dual-boot). It'd be interesting how well it plays robust PC games or Adobe Suite and interact with the myriad of peripheral devices in the office simply thru USB ports (stuff my iPad can't do so easily yet).

But I'm a bit surprised Win8 OS upgrades are getting higher than expected rush. If you already have Win7, didn't think there's need to rush for Win8, unless you have touch-screen devices. Win8 already shares the same kernel line as Win7, and Win8 can revert back to the Win7-like desktop (albeit not as good as the Win7 desktop). So unless using touchscreen, Win7 desktop is fine.

And yet, a friend's store alone already has 400+ pre-orders for Win8 Pro upgrades, with orders for double more. Definitely the $40 price helps (yep, for Pro). Are people upgrading from Vista?

Well, we'll see what happens. More competition is always good. Can't wait to see what new apps can run on it, like the next version of Firefox. And can't wait to hack it to my liking, haha!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

basroil

No, just because you can use sync doesn't mean it's chrome. It's just the few scraps of code they could plaster on top of the old safari engine, basically a new theme and things completely unrelated to actual web browsing. Stop lying to yourself, it's very well known that iOS does not allow competing browsers:

With an iPad, we have choice. I can use the iOS6 browsers but I can also use full desktop browsers. Like I'm typing this comment on my iPad with iOS6, with a full desktop version of Chrome and I'm even doing it inside Windows 7.

iPad/iOS6/desktop Chrome/Windows 7/

2 ( +3 / -1 )

lostrune2

some of those pre orders were offered at reduced prices.

I won't be upgrading to Windows 8 in the near future. I will continue with Windows 7 on both my iPad and desktop mac. I like Windows 7 and don't see the need to change, just yet.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

You are joking right? Most of those people don't know what the hell a start menu is (I wish it was a hyperbole, it's not). For them, this new interface is all they need, especially if all they do is visit websites and check emails, maybe watch a few videos, you know, non-business things.

Basilrol, a person who doesnt even know what a start menu is, how is he supposed to find hidden functions of Windows8, are we playing Super Mario? Your comments sound like you are Microsoft salesman!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Office 2013 on the Surface won't have VBA so that seriously reduces it's appeal for me. I would code on a PC in any case but it would be good to have VBA to run things on a tablet all the same. Even so, it would still be very useful for business trips.

Still prefer an iPad or a mini version for everything else.

Don't believe either company's hardware / approach are without merit.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

. I started with win 98 Changed to win ME Changed to XP after it was out for 2 or 3 years Tried Vista for about two weeks, but i removed it. I personally prefer XP over Vista. Changed to W7 only due to it coming with my new PC in 2011 Currently trying out W8 preview (copied W7 drive onto a spare drive and upgraded that drive to W8) and have several problems with drivers and programs. Upgrading W7 to W8 went okay apart from being told my firewall/antivirus program was not compatable. Then upon booting i found out my sound card drivers did not work with W8. I will most likely stick to W7 for the next year or two to see how it goes. If W8 goes like Vista did, then i will unlikely be buying it but if it proves to be okay then i may upgrade to W8. I currently using a program called "classic shell" to give the W8 a more familiar look. Which helps to use it. .

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@zichi

I won't be upgrading to Windows 8 in the near future. I will continue with Windows 7 on both my iPad and desktop mac. I like Windows 7 and don't see the need to change, just yet.

Sensible. I'm a little tired of Microsoft updating stuff without real benefit. It tried to "dumb" things with the Ribbon and annoyed a lot of developers and users. They have also made quite a few other major blunders removing this and modifying that.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@AiserX

VS 2012 sounds good. Wish you all the best in making some great apps :-)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Linux

Burn a LiveCD

Try it.

http://www.distrowatch.com

http://www.linuxmint.com http://www.ubuntu.com http://www.lubuntu.net

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The King is dead, long live the King! "Le Roi est mort, vive le Roi!."

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Microsoft has only said it is “undecided” about releasing the Surface tablet in Japan.

So you can't buy one and will have to wait for one of the OEM models instead. Applies to the pro too.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

If you install this open source software to create START button in Windows-8, you will find-out that if your present Windows-XP-installed PC (those with dual-core or built after 2007) is upgraded to Windows-8, everything will be faster and cooler. The start button can be of Windows-XP types or Vista/W7 type.

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/
0 ( +0 / -0 )

AU_user_since_1998Oct. 28, 2012 - 12:36AM JST

If you install this open source software to create START button in Windows-8, you will find-out that if your present Windows-XP-installed PC (those with dual-core or built after 2007) is upgraded to Windows-8, everything will be faster and cooler. The start button can be of Windows-XP types or Vista/W7 type.

No reason, the new interface is ridiculously easy to learn. Even with mouse you can do most of the gestures without issue. Switching to older shells is a waste of time and just complicates the learning curve.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

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