Virus consipracy-theory video 'Plandemic' shows challenges for big tech

As I posted elsewhere, there is also Professor Luc Montagnier, 

Who is 87 and pretty much lost his mind.

https://www.europeanscientist.com/en/big-data/no-sars-cov-2-does-not-contain-hiv-genetic-code/

No, SARS-CoV-2 does not contain HIV genetic code!

You state that I am wrong but you haven't demonstrated in any way how so

I've done it multiple times but nothing that contradicts your conspiracy theory penetrates your brain, that is why you call indisputable fact-based evidence "flimsy" and/or simply pretend not to see it.

Like flat earthers would do.

That's all you really have...

Mikovits claims that the virus was somehow inserted into the flu vaccine by American Big Farmer's in 2013, and was activated by wearing a mask in 2020 (any mask will do). If that illogical lunacy wasn't enough for you, China also enters the fray by actually creating the virus several years later.

So I'll ask again, which unprovenn conspiracy theory are you hanging your hat on, because you can't have both?

As I posted elsewhere, there is also Professor Luc Montagnier, 2008 Nobel Prize winner for Medicine (he isolated the HIV virus) who believes the CCP virus was likely created in the Wuhan lab.

You can hear him explain this here:

https://www.cnews.fr/emission/2020-04-17/lheure-des-pros-du-17042020-947840

It's in French and you have to skip over the 1st hour which is unrelated.

Montagnier also declared that there is extreme pressure applied against anyone (editors, researchers... ) who report things the CCP does not like. Remember their influence on the NBA a while ago?

The CCP heavily funds research groups and media worldwide; e.g., they give Harvard over 90 million. I am not surprised they can get researchers to "dispute" with flimsy (not indisputable) evidence anything that goes against China. And when people talk about consensus and indisputable facts, I'm starting to think the CCP's influence has made its way onto these forums... You state that I am wrong but you haven't demonstrated in any way how so, you just say that the so called consensus must be correct and anyone who disagrees must be wrong, comparing people like me, Dr. Mikovits, and Prof. Montagnier to flat earthers. That's all you really have...

No, that is the first time you actually pull something from inside an article.

But it's the fifth link I'm posting for you. And you still insist on contradicting the scientific community with theories that have no basis in reality and are only wild conjecture at best.

You prove absolutely nothing. People whose job it is to study and know these things tell you with indisputable facts that "1+1=2", and you retort by claiming that "1+1=the chinese military did it because we don't know what they're doing, and also cellphones."

Feel free to continue believing what you will, just be aware you are, like people who think the earth is flat or that chemtrails are actually a thing, completely and utterly wrong.

Here, one last time:

No, that is the first time you actually pull something from inside an article.

However, the genetic data irrefutably show that SARS-CoV-2 is not derived from any previously used virus backbone.

Again the assumption that any engineering of the virus would only involve reported viruses. There cannot possibly be any virus isolated by the Chinese military that were kept secret... the Chinese military is very open and would of course make everything publically available.

The authors are basically acknowledging that they would have been unable to create it with available information or their protein structural software.

Also, much of the possible routes proposed by the authors are not inconsistent with the research from the Wuhan virologist, who was engineering the ACE2 receptor in bats.

I think one should also look at the, if my understanding is correct, cellphone activity (provided by the CIA) around the virology lab in question during October 2019, which suggests something was released from that lab.

Yes, I know you have not seen any, and you will never see them.

You probably right. Has to exist to be seen.

I explained to you the evidence presented in two of your articles and I explained why it proved nothing.

No, you really didn't. You took the scientific facts from the articles and drew conclusions based on nothing that contradict what the professionals mentioned in or writing the articles have themselves concluded.

You are an anonymous poster on a comment board claiming that all serious scientists and intelligence agencies are wrong, and that you are right and can prove it (but fail to).

Please think about the aberrant nature of your position for a few minutes.

Here, one last time:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2

While the analyses above suggest that SARS-CoV-2 may bind human ACE2 with high affinity, computational analyses predict that the interaction is not ideal and that the RBD sequence is different from those shown in SARS-CoV to be optimal for receptor binding. Thus, the high-affinity binding of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein to human ACE2 is most likely the result of natural selection on a human or human-like ACE2 that permits another optimal binding solution to arise. This is strong evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is not the product of purposeful manipulation.

It is improbable that SARS-CoV-2 emerged through laboratory manipulation of a related SARS-CoV-like coronavirus. As noted above, the RBD of SARS-CoV-2 is optimized for binding to human ACE2 with an efficient solution different from those previously predicted. Furthermore, if genetic manipulation had been performed, one of the several reverse-genetic systems available for betacoronaviruses would probably have been used19. However, the genetic data irrefutably show that SARS-CoV-2 is not derived from any previously used virus backbone. Instead, we propose two scenarios that can plausibly explain the origin of SARS-CoV-2: (i) natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer; and (ii) natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer.

I haven't seen any accredited scientists who have stated that it was made in a lab.

Yes, I know you have not seen any, and you will never see them.

I completely read them. Every single one states that the virus is not man-made.

Yes, I know they say that right in the title. But if you truly did read the articles, you should be able to tell me what is the evidence behind that statement. I explained to you the evidence presented in two of your articles and I explained why it proved nothing.

This strongly indicates that the virus was engineered, not something that evolved naturally. 

No it doesn't.

Before calling someone foolish and stating that some articles clearly prove something, you should at least read them.

I completely read them. Every single one states that the virus is not man-made. I have no idea what you read in them, but it's not there. So if you want to keep ont inventing a reality, be my guest. Just don't get flustered when people call you out on it.

I haven't seen any accredited scientists who have stated that it was made in a lab.

Just a bunch of conspiracy theorists who have picked out some big words so they can try to make it sound as if they know what they're talking about, rather than regurgitating some garbage some wannabe scientist put out a youtube video on.

In addition to the points I made above (which should be enough), I would just add that although this virus has about 90% nucleotide sequence similarity with known bat corona viruses, some envelope proteins (important for target recognition) are 100% identical to those of other corona viruses. This strongly indicates that the virus was engineered, not something that evolved naturally. It also appears they inserted parts of the HIV genome. I think it is extremely unlikely that SarsCoV2 evolved naturally.

Before calling someone foolish and stating that some articles clearly prove something, you should at least read them.

That is why I hate articles like the one above. Researchers like Dr. Judy Mikovits are silenced and all most people know about her is what is written in the above biased article. So may people just accept conclusions of such articles, often without understanding the details and often without even reading them...

Since you claim to have actually read all your links and you state that they clearly show it isn't and could not have been man-made, please tell us what is the evidence that you base this on.

I have a better idea : please tell us what is the evidence that the virus is man-made, like you claim it is. All reputable scientists and intelligence agency declared it wasn't.

The burden of proof falls upon you.

If you had read all of them you would have understood the the genetic material of Covid-19 clearly shows it isn't and could not have been man-made, and you would not call anything "flimsy evidence". Or you would have learned this, before foolishly invoking the "Chinese military".

When the SarsCov2 virus sequence was reported, it was found to have around 90% similarity with two bat corona viruses that were isolated by the People’s Liberation Army, a January publication in Nature mentions this, there is nothing foolish about invoking the Chinese military.

From two of the links you provided, the only evidence that it is not man-made is that it could not have been constructed from known (reported) sequences. So they are assuming that there are no other available (to the Wuhan lab) corona virus sequences and that the sequences of all the viruses they have isolated have been made public.

Since you claim to have actually read all your links and you state that they clearly show it isn't and could not have been man-made, please tell us what is the evidence that you base this on.

Thanks for links ... I checked the last one as it looked most promising.

If you had read all of them you would have understood the the genetic material of Covid-19 clearly shows it isn't and could not have been man-made, and you would not call anything "flimsy evidence". Or you would have learned this, before foolishly invoking the "Chinese military".

"The findings from the genetic analyses are consistent with how SARS-CoV2 is currently behaving. The virus is not acting like a bio-weapon right now. The best bio-weapons kill at a much higher rate and can be readily transported and released. Imagine being told that a bio-weapon might take the lives of 1% to 3.4% of the people that it infects but you don’t quite know specifically which ones. The difference between SARS-CoV2 and pathogens like the Ebola Virus or anthrax is like the difference between a bunch of sofas and a collection of missiles. Sure, the former can cause harm but not in a predictable and consistent manner. If someone actually decided to develop SARS-CoV2 as a bio-weapon, that person needs to find a new job."

Can I sue the library for carrying a book about motorcycle racing if somebody rented that book and then caused a motorcycle accident?

If the book actively stated that you should never ever wear a helmet and always drive 60 km/h over the limits because it was better for your helath, yes, the author and the library that kept it should at least be held responsible for propagating dangerously inane advice.

And you know that I am wrong based on what?

On the scientific consensus.

Thanks for links ... I checked the last one as it looked most promising. It does describe a researcher at a reputable institute (Scripps) but I don't find it all that convincing. The main reasoning behind their conclusion is that although the nucleotide sequence of the virus has similarities to other viruses (those infecting bats and pangolins), their are no perfect matches to known viruses; i.e., they could not have created this virus by assembling nucleotide fragments of known viruses.

That seems to be main evidence provided in your wiki link:

...the genetic data irrefutably showed that the virus is not derived from a previously used virus template.[148] The overall molecular structure of the virus was found to be distinct from the known coronaviruses and most closely resembles that of viruses of bats and pangolins that were little studied and never known to harm humans.[149]

Several of known bat viruses had been isolated by the Chinese military. Why would anyone assume that information about all viruses isolated by them would be made public?!!! The Chinese military could not possibly keep any viruses secret, oh no...

We do know that the Chinese military has been isolating corona virsuses from bat caves and probably elsewhere. We do know of at least one researcher in Wuhan who has been engineering Corona viruses and specifically focusing on host specificity.

The "scientific consensus" argument has little value when it is based on such flimsy evidence, and when scientists who disagree with this consensus are silenced.

expatMay 14 04:11 pm JSTThis woman's claims have been conclusively discreditied and rejected by fellow scientists in a blind peer review. If you don't know, say you don't, because others will know that you don't, and you'll convince no one of anything other than that you don't know what you're talking about. Lots of evidence for that, right here

And one thing leads to another. Remember the stupid unnecessary cult suicides over Comet hale-Bopp, due to misinformation? And in the US there is a lot of xenophobic hate talk about 'immigrants won't vaccinate their kids because it's against Islam' or 'immigrants don't get vaccinated at all' or 'they give us TB'. there are anti-vaxxers who claim Christianity as their excuse too - I've known them all my life.

All this ignorance, conspiracy theories, false news and false science leads to nothing but trouble. And the loudmouths behind it know that, and they are grinning.

You do realize there is no way to actually debunk or prove the theory?

Gogo, very condescending. All you so is. Say other commenters are dumb and uneducated. Guess the mods are asleep.

@ WhatsnextMay 14  10:43 pm JST

Absolutely! She is called an anti-vaxxer, yet denies that outright in the video 'Plandemic' (hard to find, but it is still up on the web).

Why is everything a conspiracy and people that educated themselves the enemy? I blame Trump for this increase in stupidity of people.

And you know that I am wrong based on what?

On the scientific consensus.

https://www.kxan.com/news/us-intelligence-agencies-debunk-conspiracy-theory-that-coronavirus-was-manmade/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_related_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/17/covid-19-coronavirus-did-not-come-from-a-lab-study-shows-natural-origins/#768aad7c3728

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-not-human-made-lab-genetic-analysis-nature

I can produce dozens more.

I also think the media and silicon valley get it. When you censor something and say something's dangerous that just peaks everyone's interest. It will always have the opposite effect.

Plus we didn't give all these platforms our attention because we wanted them to protect us from information. That was never their job in the first place

@jspac

And no, they can't be held. Accountable for what a YouTuber says. There are laws in the USA that give them protective status so they cant be sued for anything anyone says. Its the same laws given to telecom companies. So if I said something bad to someone on the phone they can't sue sprint. Same deal.

Steve Martin. Great comment. Thanks for sharing the info. I'll check it out!

These articles keep citing her mask comments and ignore the scandals with fauci during the aid epidemic. She wasn't the only doctor in the video talking about germ theory. There was also the dr.erikson in the film which who had his YouTube video deleted as well. These articles never debate anything in the film accurately and misconstrued her quotes.

I agree with concerned citizen here. If the tech Giants want us to take them seriously about the science then debate what she actually said better yet have a forum with here and other doctors and scientist and have a debate. If they are convinced that her theories and accusations are quack they should be easy to disprove.

I honestly don't like the mask. I have a sore throat after using them for the day, it's hot in the summer time and you are really restricting your oxygen. I believe there is some merit to her comments and I would like to see more science about whether is healthy to wear all day everyday. Instead of just saying shut up shut up. Quack. These tech companies throw a temper tantrum when anyone breaks through the mode and questions authority. Questions are dangerous! Stay inside! Cover your mouth, ears and eyes. Silicon valley loves you! Bill gates loves you!

I have just started the 2nd chapter of 'Plague of Corruption', and am finding her writing (co-authored) both clear and entirely believable from my own experience of academia here in Japan.

For those who doubt systematic collusion is likely to be found in the sciences, I modestly suggest taking a peek at Chris Martenson's YouTube videos (Ph.D in toxicology, Duke). Or if into reading, T.S. Kuhn's 'The Structure of Scientific Revolutions' or Robert Friedman's 'The Politics of Excellence'. Doctor Martenson is not an anti-vaccer, and neither does he show a political agenda. But for not toeing the official WHO guidelines, which have been demonstrably politically questionable and contradictory, Chris's videos have long been demonetized by Google / YouTube. Now that he is sharing increasingly credible evidence that the virus has been engineered (a very 'unnatural' furin cleavage site gene sequence, among other evidence), I suspect his videos, now over 100 days of coverage, will also eventually be deleted, as was his Wiki page.

Unlike Moskowits, I still tend to think (and hope) the virus accidentally escaped the Wuhan lab, rather than being deliberately released. But this also begs the question as to why several hundred scientists have protested against 'Gain of Function' research on already dangerous viruses. If the research was not dangerous to begin with, why the need for the NIH's secretly decided safety protocols ... or the need for high security P4 labs to begin with? Might as well do similar research on potentially dangerous chemicals which could be weaponized by self-interested foreign powers.

As history seems to show, what can be weaponized, will be ... MKUltra, Unit 731, Josef Mengele, The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments, the list just goes on and on.

Monsanto or Moskowits? It shouldn't be difficult to second guess which would more likely have a conflict of interest regarding 'objective' science. 'Follow the money' is fully appropriate. One only needs go back a generation or so to find scientific-medical consensus regarding the 'best' cigarettes ... or the dangers of the devil weed.

And just as problematic, Google/YouTube's presumption to censor Moskowits is only a thin line from censoring unofficial narratives coming from the likes of Chris Martenson, Naomi Klein, Shoshana Zuboff, Chris Hedges, or Noam Chomsky ... as potentially dangerous 'conspiracy theory' nuts. As Karl Popper pointed out more than a generation ago, censorship and a free and open society are mutually incompatible.

So if the virus was engineered in a lab in China, how did it make it into 'Big Pharmas' flu vaccines in 2013-2015? How did that virus then stay hidden until wearing a mask suddenly made it spring into life in the last 6 months?

You have to choose your crackpot conspiracy theory carefully here. If you believe it was made in China, then you have to dismiss the Mikovits lunacy. And if you believe her time-bending tosh then China gets off the hook, and that's not gonna gonna go down well with the current web of wizadry being thought up by your re-election campaigners.

She also outlined clearly how Fauci and others are corrupt.

The fact that videos like this are being deleted from Youtube and Facebook mean that what they contain is making some people nervous... if it was rubbish they’d be allowed to stay up. If something gets deleted under the pretense of being a “conspiracy” it’s most likely the truth

Beside, if the video is really so evidently fakenews, why bothering rushing to cancel it?! With so many around...

They rushed to cancel it because it hit the soft spot. It is indeed a sort of a conspiracy in the sense that the virus not only is man-made, as Nobel price virologist Luc Montagner has publicly declared already weeks ago, after other Indian and other countries lab also detected from the sequencing of the virus DNA and the HIV rna inserts they found - which triggered the fast contagion; but it was also well known since last year: there are proofs of its contagion as far back as October. The impossibility of realizing a vaccine is also well-known, as well as very effective cures are also know (vitamine C and ozone, as well as anticoagulants to avoid its turning into pneumonia). Just government - led by scientific communities that are tied to farmaceutical companies, avoid looking into that direction, because it implies loosing profits for cures and vaccines that were in development already before the spread.

I believe the virus was likely engineered.

Well you're wrong.

And you know that I am wrong based on what?

And "as a scientist myself", I believe the virus was likely engineered.

What is the basis of your belief?

I base my opinion on the DNA sequence analyses, the research (published, peer reviewed...) of Shi Zhengli (a virologist in Wuhan specializing on modifying (engineering)the host specificity of bat corona viruses), and the great efforts that China went through to hush things up.

But perhaps I should instead believe Benjamin Romberger, because he is a Facebook user and a Southern California resident.

I'm more inclined to believe those who can back it up with facts that are reproducible

People can say whatever, but when asked for facts to back it up, they should be able to reproduce it

People can say whatever as long as they can support it with reproducible facts

As they say - talk is cheap; facts is where it's at

Expat, many people prefer to "believe". And no peer review of scientific data will change that, they know better from facebook

For us regular people, our decisions on these things must be based on belief because we just don't know. The question is, who do we believe?

It's a good question. I always have big doubts about any video presentation of serious "facts" when it is accompanied by "mood music". This goes for BBC documentaries as well as privately made videos. The clips I've seen of this video had such music (quite quiet and subtle).

And "as a scientist myself", I believe the virus was likely engineered.

What is the basis of your belief?

I believe the virus was likely engineered.

Well you're wrong. And that's perfectly OK, as long as you don't start telling people around you not to wear masks or get vaccinated.

I watched the video in question and thought the points Dr. Mikovits raised were very worthy of further inquiry.

For us regular people, our decisions on these things must be based on belief because we just don't know. The question is, who do we believe?

I'm inclined to have stronger belief in the one who is risking their reputation, ridicule and livelihood rather than the big money profiteers, establishment bullies.

@raw beer: I'm more concerned you think she has any point at all. Her facts are all made up.

This is a bad article from AP. Instead of just reporting the facts, the authors are expressing their biased opinion and supporting them by quoting a "Facebook user... Southern California resident", yeah that sure qualifies him...

And there are plenty of examples of "solid, well-supported by experiments and peer-reviewed science published by respected researchers in specialized journals" that have turned out to be "wrong", and not all due to honest mistakes.

I have found many of Dr. Judy Mikovits' statements quite compelling and they should be heard. And "as a scientist myself", I believe the virus was likely engineered.

However much I disagree, tech companies are private entities and thus do have the right to decide what is disseminated on their platforms.

But because these private entities are now the major global method of information sharing, which affects society so profoundly, the U.S. government should use legal means to break the monopoly, encourage more competition and thus allow for diversity of viewpoints on the internet.

Do not believe what your govt tells you or wants you to believe, question everything !

Keep an open mind !

Timeon, no disrespect meant but I've seen too many big companies, people with some letters behind their name, etc. browbeat, belittle, etc. They may something upstairs but hearts run near empty. Sorry. It's a sad comment on society as a whole to see how protectiveness of all types have just polarized our world. No need to use the big 'C' word, it's there.

As a scientist myself, it always puzzles me how solid, well-supported by experiments and peer-reviewed science published by respected researchers in specialized journals is easily dismissed as "difficult to understand mumbo-jumbo", "government manipulation", "big pharma money grub" etc., while ludicrous theories without any scientific support, made by scientists discredited for fraud and made-up data, or by people with a limited or no scientific training become instant hits on the net.

And unfortunately is impossible to argue with these people, any rational scientific argument is met with "follow the money", "censorship", "government cover up", etc.

Follow the money.

Okay. Please show us where the money goes, then. I imagine you're not talking about the ad money Dr. Mikovits made on the millions of hits of her original youtube video...

Something reminds of when they were Burning Books in the old days because some didnt like what was written in them.

Why are tech companies responsible for censorship?

Because they would be responsible too if millions of people watched the video, believed in it and then did really stupid things like not wear masks and refuse to be vaccinated.

One man's 'Fake News' is another man's truth. Who would you believe, Faust (sorry, Fauci) or Dr. Mikovits? Follow the money.