tech

Will Apple Pay be the next iRevolution?

38 Comments
By BRANDON BAILEY

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38 Comments
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Not in Japan! That thing is already in use here.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Isn't that like... "ancient"... in Japan?

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Oh gosh, just look this article, the pure example of marketing propaganda , really !

4 ( +9 / -5 )

I still prefer cash and gave up my phone a year ago.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Finally, as many large corporation, Apple turns to the practice of extracting rent from financial transactions as a core part of its business. They all wish to be a bank or tap into the flow.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Ho hum. I've been paying with my phone for about 10 years now. And that is a dumb phone.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

No. plenty of this type of system exist already.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Any system which forces you to choose ONE particular phone to use it will never get full market share. Its unfortunate that Apple's ethos means that they will never let other phones use their technology, or their readers. The beauty of NFC, and Felica in Japan is that any phone can use it. It also works with separate cards (Suica/Pasmo), meaning that you dont even need to have a phone to use it.

Of course, starbucks will support it (i believe you have to own an apple laptop if you want to sit at the window of a Starbucks), and so will a few shops here and there. But it wont be a revolution.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Any system which forces you to choose ONE particular phone to use it will never get full market share.

No system will ever get full market share, regardless of how many phones they allow. So that's a bit of a straw man.

And I don't think Apple cares to get full market share, they know they can make a strong profit with the share they can get.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

At least in the USA it will be, since Apple has already lined up a number of major banks and retailers to support Apple Pay.

Yes, we know about the Mobile Suica and Rakuten Edy systems used in Japan that has been around since circa 2008, but those function more like refillable stored value payment cards than the system planned by Apple Pay, which directly makes payments against a credit card or checking account. I expect by probably February 2015 Apple Pay in Japan will add support for Mobile Suica and Rakuten Edy, mostly through an update to iOS to make the phone compatible with FeliCa NFC mobile payment systems.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I'm kind of surprised American and Japan are behind in having this system in place.

China, of all countries, already has Alipay where people actually use it to send money (of course probably the younger generation).

Now Apple is doing Apple Pay and Line is doing Line Pay to catch up. I'm really looking forward to this system as it'll help both consumers and business make transactions easier.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

I'm kind of surprised American and Japan are behind in having this system in place.

Read the above comments. Paying by phone In Japan is not new.

Changing the subject, predicative text has been around since year dot in Japan, but it's "amazing new technology" with Apple (and doesn't work as well as the Japanese version)

0 ( +3 / -3 )

titanium: "Not in Japan! That thing is already in use here."

And ONLY in Japan -- try using your 'keitai-saifu' overseas and see what happens. Apple-pay will be used in other nations that accept it, so your American bought phone can be used outside the US. Japan will resist because they are upset that they invented the tech for doing this kind of thing but as usual failed to export it and are not getting the recognition for it. The same thing happened with iPhone at first, with Docomo and AU rejecting it ("it won't sell in Japan where people are comfortable with Japanese phones!"), and now it is pretty much the biggest seller of smart phones while Japanese companies have been left in the dust behind it and Samsung.

ReformedBasher: The Predictive text introduced by Apple is similar to what's been around for a while, and not just on cell phones in Japan but on websites in general, but is not the same thing. What you've got in the case of the latter is more 'repetitive text' than predictive, as anything it 'predicts' you're going to type next is something you've previously entered before. That, or it gives you options in other languages of what you might be typing out (ie. to change to Kanji, or Chinese, etc.). With predictive text on the new OS8 it's not the same thing -- it predicts what I might want to enter next even if I've never entered it before. It would not be touted as 'new technology' at all if that were not the case, given, again, that it has been around on the internet for ages.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

So is the Osaifukeitai like the Sony Xperia series if a nation is going to accept it and provide apps. No difference Smithy.

Hong Kong's Octopus system can start tomorrow if they want to simply by providing the apps to the users.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

"Assuming there are no system breakdowns or security flaws,..." That's a BIG assumption. As others have noted, the tech is old news in Japan and some other places. Connect to a credit card? No thanks.

Cash is King.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

This article is a joke, right? NFC has been around for years already, with many other smartphone makers utilising it. Throwing an "i" in front of something does not make it "revolutionary".

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japan is the birthplace of competing technology that is deeply entrenched here already, apple pay unlikely to gain any ground here anytime soon.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Apple has a large market share with people who use iPhones. When these are able to pay with their phone it will change the market drastically. Doesn't matter whether such payment functionality has been around on Galakei or Android for many years.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Credit card companies charge businesses 2.7 percent of every transaction. Apple will have to settle for a figure less than that if they hope to compete here, that is also after factoring in the cost of the special terminals Iphones will need and, paying local handlers a cut from the 2.7%. Their 30% commission model will not work here. Plus most importantly why doesn't every one understand that we as consumers need better batteries in our devices if we are to use them for everything the corporations are throwing at us. For all intents and purposes my dumb phone already does everything I need it to do (incorporating my credit card and train pass etc) without having me worry about having enough juice to call home at the end of a long day..

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

CGB Spender is correct. People can mope and complain, but Apple will have a much larger impact than keitai saify has had in ten years.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Seeing how Apple products are so popular with the Japanese, I don't doubt that this may become a major thing in Japan.

I really don't see what's so good about Apple handsets but the Japanese buy it up like candy. They seem to be suckers for advertisement targeting.

As for America, something like this will probably turn out to become a horrible idea. Why? If you know anything about how America deals with lost or stolen phones, you'd know why. For those who don't I'll fill you in. Most companies don't care. They rather have you buy a new one than help you retrieve it. Cell phone thefts are very high because of this. Especially iphones because they have a good resell value. Give it a wallet function and it's not much different than losing your credit cards.

That's just my two cents.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Only available in America.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Throwing an "i" in front of something does not make it "revolutionary".* Apple and the Applites would disagree with you.
-2 ( +1 / -3 )

it predicts what I might want to enter next even if I've never entered it before

That's actually what WWW search engines do now - based on algorithms, predict what ya gonna type next based on what it learned from millions of people who did searches before, even if you've never entered it before.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Most of the posters here that say keitai-saifu / Mobile Suica etc. has been around miss the point. They are quite inconvenient in that you have to keep recharging your card from your credit card. They don't make direct payments.

Apple Pay makes direct payments from your bank account or credit card. You can then track your purchases with your banking software. And the good thing from a privacy point of view is that neither Apple nor the merchant can track your purchases and analyse your trends. It's completely private and safe.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

2020hindsights

Nope Apple can and will track all purchasing with this system since Apple is acting as a middle man in data transfer. If you follow the data stream, it's Appple's server that authenticates and transfer the amount of transaction and point of purchase to the credit card company so they can log any and all data that flows from point of purchase to credit card company.

Apple will probably do it free of charge since this will be an enourmous marketing tool like what Amazon and or search engines do to push adverts based on past purchasing and/or trends.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Raymond Chuang An IOS update cannot add capability to use Felica - the technology is subtly different to standard NFC which is why foreign NFC enabled phones cannot use Saifu Keitai here.

The difference is in the authentication method. Felica uses on-chip authentication as part of the transaction 'handshake' - it is unique to each phone, and the phone companies have no say in it.

NFC, which Android has had for a while, and forms the backbone of the ApplePay system uses an on-SIM authentication mechanism. This means you need a specific NFC-enabled SIM card, and allows phone companies to charge you to use the NFC payments (currently they dont i believe). The phone will beep, because it is NFC communication, but it wont be able to authenticate against a Felica reader (and vice versa, although Japanese phones now have both Felica and NFC)

The only way it will work in Japan would be for a) Apple to roll out reader terminals to conbini/shops/train stations etc, and b) for Japanese banks to get on board and implement the technology to work with ApplePay (This literally makes me chuckle... oh Japanese banks implementing technology... No doubt they would want to make it so that it only works between 9-5pm just like their ATMs)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

SamuraiBlue

Do some research about Apple Pay. Apple doesn't act as the middleman in the data transfer. It is handled directly by the bank.

This different from Google Wallet, which does intercept the payment data and can track your trends.

It's one of the main benefits of Apple Pay. That and security.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Its nice and all but "revolutionary"? What makes it easier or more convenient? Most banks give you a visa debt card that i could use anywhere in the world. You still have to say "apple pay", take out your phone, scan and wait for confirmation. The article mentions security issue with credit cards, when did clerks stop checking IDs? Actually i haver never seen an ID check in Japan.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Smith

ReformedBasher: The Predictive text introduced by Apple is similar to what's been around for a while, and not just on cell phones in Japan but on websites in general, but is not the same thing. What you've got in the case of the latter is more 'repetitive text' than predictive, as anything it 'predicts' you're going to type next is something you've previously entered before. That, or it gives you options in other languages of what you might be typing out (ie. to change to Kanji, or Chinese, etc.). With predictive text on the new OS8 it's not the same thing -- it predicts what I might want to enter next even if I've never entered it before. It would not be touted as 'new technology' at all if that were not the case, given, again, that it has been around on the internet for ages.

Depends how you look at it. Stuff often repeated does come up in the Japanese version (I'm talking about iPhones), but so does likely kanji, so in this sense it is truly predicative.

The English version tries to anticipate what you're going to type too, but it has failed to recognize my typing habits as the hype says - it just keeps giving me the same choices over and over again. Not that I'm complaining, it's better than nothing but what Apple says is not true (and I have an iPhone and have no interest in dissing them, I'm just being truthful)

I'm curious how this is related to henkan on my keyboard(s) (Windows OS). Same thing perhaps? Latest versions seem able to offer both suggestions, and recognize (my) often used words and phrases when typing in Japanese.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Apple will receive a commission on every bank transaction and will become "a nice little earner" for the company.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Apple will receive a commission on every bank transaction and will become "a nice little earner" for the company.

Yes it should be called "Pay Apple". How much cash reserves do Apple have already? Contrast to the genius of bitcoin where if there are transaction fees they go to the peers maintaining the network, and all can get a slice of the pie.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

davestrousers

Yes it should be called "Pay Apple".

Google Wallet should be called "Pay Google."

1 ( +3 / -2 )

2020hindsights

Don't really need to since the data first needs to be verified and authenticated by Apple so the data stream needs to go through a server controlled by Apple from there the data stream is redirected to the relevant credit card company with the verification code. That is the only way a verfication system can work without actual registering a verification code of the phone to the relevant credit campany in which it defeats the purpose of having Apple included into the scheme.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

By the way, they've figured out how to make FeliCa work on an iPhone: put in the FeliCa authentication circuitry into a protective case that includes a connection back to the iPhone via the Lightning port. That way, Apple Pay can add Mobile Suica and Rakuten Edy support while the protective case with its own circuitry acts to authenticate FeliCa NFC signals. If I were NTT Docomo, I'd start offering such a protective case as soon as possible (and make some money along the way).

0 ( +0 / -0 )

SamuraiBlue

Don't really need to since the data first needs to be verified and authenticated by Apple so the data stream needs to go through a server controlled by Apple from there the data stream is redirected to the relevant credit card company with the verification code.

You really should research what you are talking about before posting incorrect statements. The data doesn't need to be verified and authenticated by Apple. That is wrong. When a payment is made the data is sent through the payment network to the financial institution to verify that it is valid. It does not touch Apple servers at all.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

iBelive that this will become the next iRevolution. dozens of dozens of millions of apple fanboys will keep on buying iProducts with great profit margin for Apple no matter what kinds of products they would be. As Albert Einstein said: "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Why all the publicity? Goodle Pay has been around for years already and does the same thing.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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