tokyo 2020 olympics

New Zealand selects transgender athlete Hubbard for Olympic women's weightlifting team

131 Comments
By STEVE McMORRAN

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131 Comments

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Fantastic! Best of luck!

-59 ( +12 / -71 )

June 21 2021 - The day womens sport died

73 ( +85 / -12 )

Not fair. Discriminatory against the female competitors who ought to loudly protest.

68 ( +76 / -8 )

The women lifters have protested but the woke brigade shout louder.

60 ( +70 / -10 )

@awomde

wish I could give you more than one up vote !

24 ( +35 / -11 )

“We acknowledge that gender identity in sport is a highly sensitive and complex issue requiring a balance between human rights and fairness on the field of play," Smith said. "As the New Zealand Team, we have a strong culture of manaaki (hospitality) and inclusion and respect for all"

The usual blah from those for whom "inclusion" (or at least, being seen as inclusive) is more important than "fairness". Meanwhile, from the pointy end of the argument...

"However, anyone that has trained weightlifting at a high level knows this to be true in their bones: this particular situation is unfair to the sport and to the athletes."

Belgium's Anna Vanbellinghen, who will likely compete against Hubbard, said the New Zealander's presence would be “like a bad joke” for women competitors.
42 ( +46 / -4 )

Im happy that men can compete with women now since women wanted equality in life. Go man go!

12 ( +29 / -17 )

Does seem unfair if, 'The determining criteria — a maximum reading of 10 nanomoles per liter of testosterone — is as least five times more than a biological woman.' It will almost be strange if she doesn't win a medal.

27 ( +29 / -2 )

What a joke!

If Hubbard was in the men's category Hubbard would be competing 3 weight levels higher.

Now think about that!

At 130 kilos Hubbard would be in the men's 109 kilos and up category.

But as is expected there is no such category for women as the reality few if any in competition are even close to that size/weight

Women's top category is 87 kilo up.

To show a difference in the Olympics men have 81~ 96 k, 96~ 109 k, and 109 k and up.

And please no "what if a natural born women was that size?" Silly comments. It hasn't happened before and if it did it would be extremely rare.

Biology and physics, most born women that reach the height and size of Hubbard suffer from problems related to their height because of the natural lower bone density and pelvic structure of natural females something a post pubescent born male will not face.

Feeling are all fine and dandy but biological facts are reality are another.

I am not saying people like Hubbard cannot live if be a woman in whatever way they want that is fine their choice.

But to say they are the same as natural born is going against all science and biological facts.

51 ( +55 / -4 )

Very unfair advantage, and a slap in the face to the genetically born women who have trained for years to win gold.

This has opened the floodgates, and will be the death of genetically born womens sports if it is allowed.

42 ( +46 / -4 )

It will almost be strange if she doesn't win a medal.

Strikes me as a no-win situation. If it (a useful pronoun when dealing with something of which the gender is debatable) wins a medal, especially a gold, it will get criticized for having a natural biological advantage. If it does not, it will be criticized for not even being able to beat “real” women.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Total unfair. An unintended consequence of “wokeism” that can’t be changed now as liberals have gone too far to come back.

34 ( +40 / -6 )

Women training hard, some for a lifetime. Now they have to compete against men. LGBT+whatever letters crying "unequality and discrimination" but when they are the ones discriminating against women, it's all fine. Hypocrites!

South Park showed it best what this hypocrisy really is like in the following clip:

https://youtu.be/URz-RYEOaig

30 ( +31 / -1 )

Complete farce of course, but quite fitting for these screwed-up Olympics.

28 ( +33 / -5 )

Now I am not an expert on the categories but if I am correct Anna Vanbellinghen would be in the one category lower 81 k but has competed in the 87 k up.

Either way at under 90 k what chance against a 130k Hubbard?

13 ( +15 / -2 )

This is a ridiculous decision! Are they soooo desperate to get a gold that they are prepared to cheat? A man will always be stronger and have more stamina than a woman transgender or not. This decision is an outrageously unfair to every REAL female athlete!!! It is interesting to note that there are no female to male transgender athletes prepared to compete as a male events. Why is that? Because they can't win! So why is this even considered never mind accepted.

27 ( +29 / -2 )

Madness.

Become a woman, whatever you want.

But you cant then compete as a woman, that's hardly a human rights travesty

this is the hight of selfish woke bs.

26 ( +28 / -2 )

I do not wish Hubbard ill will, she is likely a good person. But for the sake of fairness I hope she doesnt medal.

Japanese women are famously good at weightlifting/strength sports, and usually pick up a medal or two. So perhaps Japanese women will step and nab the gold in this class at home.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

World records: 333kg- women and 473kg- men.

had a best, combined snatch and clean and jerk total of 300 kilograms.

“she” also benefits by competing in the much much lower weight class as others have mentioned.

male competitors can “clean and jerk” 25kg more than body weight on average while women only 1kg more.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

5-10 years ago I would've said this is ridiculous and unfair to the women, but since they spent all that time saying how they're just as strong and can obviously do everything any man can just as well... I'm now a proponent of true gender equality, and looking forward to seeing them prove those claims.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

Ganbare Laurel!

How hypocritical that the same individuals that consistently criticize Japan for 'being behind the times' when it comes to LGBTQ issues here, are the very same ones now criticizing Laurel and her being picked to represent New Zealand at the Olympic games as a woman. Topics like these show the true underlying character of people.

-22 ( +4 / -26 )

I guess that's one gold medal in the bag for NZ.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

A man will always be a man and a women will always be a women not matter how much you dice and slice it.

18 ( +23 / -5 )

oldman_13Today  11:59 am JST

Ganbare Laurel!

How hypocritical that the same individuals that consistently criticize Japan for 'being behind the times' when it comes to LGBTQ issues here, are the very same ones now criticizing Laurel and her being picked to represent New Zealand at the Olympic games as a woman. Topics like these show the true underlying character of people.

There is a significant difference between:

1) Two people of the same gender wishing to be able to be married and requesting equal rights to heterosexual couples

and

2) A “woman” insisting on competing in a sport in which physical strength is a huge advantage, against other (actual) women, none of whom will have that advantage.

It would take a pretty obtuse individual to equate the two.

25 ( +26 / -1 )

How hypocritical that the same individuals that consistently criticize Japan for 'being behind the times' when it comes to LGBTQ issues here, are the very same ones now criticizing Laurel 

There is ZERO evidence these are "the same individuals". This issue has ZERO to do with Japan and LGBT issues, and EVERYTHING to do with fairness in competition. Natural born women have been given an outrageous disadvantage. How could anyone not understand this?

What's next? Allow post-op males to compete in the female 100m sprint?

15 ( +17 / -2 )

This is totally unfair to the other competitors. Men who transition to women have an advantage that makes this unacceptable. Whether it upsets those who transition or not is neither here nor there, sport must be as fair as possible and this is as bad as cheating.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

This is totally unfair to the other competitors. Men who transition to women have an advantage that makes this unacceptable. Whether it upsets those who transition or not is neither here nor there, sport must be as fair as possible and this is as bad as cheating.

Someone hack your account? You’re making sense.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

The Olympic Committee agreed to classify him as a woman and allowed him to compete as a woman by applying a biological test (maximum 10 nanomoles per liter of testosterone). So will this test also apply to all males seeking to be recognized as females in any sports or social settings throughout the world?

What about high school sports? Should high school kids have their testosterone measured?

What about entrance to girl's only schools? Should elementary and high school kids have their testosterone measured?

What about entrance to female only spaces like bathrooms, spas, etc? Should every trans woman have their testosterone measured?

This is getting ridiculous.

The standard applied for determination of gender must be uniform throughout the world and the only way this can be achieved is by natures own indisputable markers; chromosomes.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

The world has gone insane. Then what does that make a real woman? That's totally a disrespect to all the women out there. A person who has a mind of a woman but a man's body, is allowed to compete in the women's division.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

Laurel has clearly met the standards of eligibility as she had transitioned eight years ago and has a testosterone level within the limits (as per the IWF guidelines as well which is same as the IOC). These rules for transgender athlete eligibility was set in 2003 so it has been in place for quite a while. She ranks only 16th in the world rankings so any advantage she has is negated by the fact that many of the world's elite weightlifters use drugs in some manner (there were 61 doping positives in Olympic weightlifting between the 2008 and 2012, by far the most of any Olympic sport).

Yup a lot of hypocrisy, bigotry, double standards, and ignorance displayed above.

-23 ( +5 / -28 )

This is the PC.

This is the world that Westerners have always wanted.

11 ( +18 / -7 )

Tells a lot about how ridiculous New Zealand has become as a country.

And the same who have called for science driven decisions during the Covid now completely ignores biology, anatomy and sports science to push their crazy agenda. What a world, even sport is ruined and polluted today by silly ideology. We are now asked to believe that separating men and women during sport competitions and having therefore separations based on body size, weight and strength when it matters by simple physics was somehow a “discrimination”.

17 ( +22 / -5 )

New Zealand has fallen down a left wing rabbit hole, and this is the sort of nonsense that happens.

Gavin/Laurel is welcome to live their life the way they choose, but competing against women is blatantly unfair. I do not support Hubbard's selection.

17 ( +21 / -4 )

The additional burden Hubbard has had to carry is that her efforts have made her a flashpoint in the debate around the fairness of trans athletes competing in women’s events. She has faced anger, scorn and ridicule, and has been directly criticized by some opponents.

Hubbard is NOT the victim here. The real victims are the poor women competitors being discriminated against and robbed of sporting achievement and financial reward opportunities by a man. This is insane.

19 ( +22 / -3 )

Old man -

She ranks only 16th in the world rankings so any advantage she has is negated by the fact that many of the world's elite weightlifters use drugs 

Wrong. It pays to actually read the articles -

*will be ranked fourth in the competition on Aug 2 for women 87 kilograms and over.*

4 ( +6 / -2 )

How many social disasters do we have to go through to finally begin to see how "The Revolution" always, always turns to eating its own? Is allowing biological males to, if they so desire, completely dominate sports in the name of "diversity" really all that good for women who will never win against such competition again? Was it not humiliating, not uplifting, to see the most successful women's soccer team in Women's World Cups, USA, lose to a band of HIGH SCHOOL BOYS 5-2?

How about allowing any biological male who claims to "be" a woman to enter any women's restroom without censure? After all, who are you to say that this is a woman, but that is not? Any woman who objects to the 100KG jar-head "woman" barging into her restroom will be branded a "transphobe," that's how crazy things have become...

See how they set things up to fail?? How many times do the laws of unintended consequences have to come back to bite us in the fit-bit before we say "enough is enough" and draw a line somewhere, anywhere, to maintain some semblance of reality?

14 ( +17 / -3 )

Why not having a transgender Olympics. It would be better

21 ( +24 / -3 )

Nice to have all the things I wanted to say already said by others! Well done!

Terrible decision, New Zealand!

21 ( +24 / -3 )

I cannot believe all the hate and misogyny in the above comments. This woman is a brave trailblazer who is bringing a lot of attention to this rather staid and boring sport. I applaud her and hope she wins a gold.

-25 ( +6 / -31 )

Just too funny....

The world has gone mad.

Female competitors, "real" females.. should be speaking out. This isn't being inclusive... It's robbing women of the chance to compete.

I hope s(he) does her back in during the first round.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

Also, I think it is quite gratuitous to show the 2 photos of her breaking her arm in a failed lift.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

AlternativeOpinionToday  11:26 am JST

The women lifters have protested but the woke brigade shout louder.

There has been no protest from other weightlifters. I guess the female weightlifters are more respectful of people's gender choice than people commenting online about it.

-22 ( +3 / -25 )

There has been no protest from other weightlifters. I guess the female weightlifters are more respectful of people's gender choice than people commenting online about it.

Really?!

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/females-told-be-quiet-transgender-issue-ex-weightlifter-2021-05-07/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9636357/amp/Olympics-Transgender-weightlifter-Hubbards-presence-Tokyo-unfair-rival.html

There are plenty more, even with the gag order!

16 ( +18 / -2 )

Also, I think it is quite gratuitous to show the 2 photos of her breaking her arm in a failed lift.

That is all part of the propaganda.

Showing those makes it look like Hubbard is not as big a threat to the born female, it give this false image of " look Hubbard doesn't always win" .

It fails to point out that it is not uncommon for such things to happen even on supposedly easy lifts if the person makes an incorrect move.

But these are engineered to give a false sense that Hubbard isn't as big a hurdle for born females as the facts show.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Utter selfishness. Hubbard should be the first person (in a very long line) to say no, it's unfair. Tells you a lot about his/her personality.

19 ( +23 / -4 )

The IOC policy specifies conditions under which those who transition from male to female are eligible to compete in the female category.

If it just burns you up that a transgender can compete then take your vitriol to the IOC and lobby accordingly. I think hating and bullying this particular person who is following the rules is wrong.

-15 ( +4 / -19 )

I guess he'll be getting gold then, no hormone treatment can suppress the bone density and natural strength of a male body.

19 ( +20 / -1 )

I cannot believe all the hate and misogyny in the above comments

Please look up the meaning of "misogyny".

If anything the comments here have been In support of women actual born women the vast vast vast majority of those classified as women.

Sad thing is this has to be pointed out!

Read

http://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/14344016

See who the real misogynist are, the ones telling born females to shut up on this subject or face trouble.

19 ( +21 / -2 )

Cool. Just like the East German shot putters of the 1970s!

13 ( +15 / -2 )

Laurel Hubbard hefted 185 kilograms in two lifts on the way to qualifying in the women’s super-heavyweight division for the Tokyo Olympics.

I congratulate Laurel Hubbard and I wish him all the luck.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

What Antiquesaving said! Shame on the misogynists who support interference in women's sports!!

8 ( +10 / -2 )

The IOC policy specifies conditions under which those who transition from male to female are eligible to compete in the female category.

Yes and many doctors have pointed out that the focus only on testosterone is flawed.

Lets ignore the fact that even at just under 5 nmol/l is still over twice the upper level any born female has. ( Side note if the 5 nmol/l wasn't any help then why can't born female artificially increase their testosterone to that same level?)

So let's look at hemoglobin levels born males have higher hemoglobin, larger blood volume, larger lung capacity, larger hearts than a born female of equal size.

This translates to more oxigen to the muscles, ( so why ban born females from getting the same advantage be blood doping?)

Then we have bone density, which all experts say only starts to reduce if the person remains of hormone therapy to reduce testosterone for at least 5 years uninterrupted and will take at least 10 years to reduce to the level of a born female.

These are not anti transgender but simple biological facts.

No different than my eyes are blue and wearing brown contacts doesn't change that fact.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

That's a man, baby!

10 ( +14 / -4 )

If you need another example of the sad truth that men are better than women in most sports, at least at the elite level, look no further than tennis. The Williams sisters were both beaten handily, one after the other , by a man ranked 203rd in the world. Mind you, it might not have been a fair test, since the male player (Karsten Braasch) had already played a round of golf the morning of the matches (and had a couple of adult beverages).

lol Never heard that.

But it reminds me of the US (real) Women's soccer team vs pubescent highschool boys.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Laurel Hubbard hefted 185 kilograms in two lifts on the way to qualifying in the women’s super-heavyweight division for the Tokyo Olympics.

I congratulate Laurel Hubbard and I wish him all the luck.

Great achievement for someone that if put in the men's category would be super heavyweight division!

Oh right women's super heavyweight is 87 kg up Hubbard is 130 kg which in the men's places in the 109 kg up

Hubbard's closest born female competition barely weighs 100 kg.

Interesting to note that the Wikimedia pages of all the other top female weightlifters list their category and the body weight.

While Hubbard's Wiki page curiosity leaves out Hubbard's weight which is over 130kg. 30 kg over the closest born female.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Might be dating myself a bit, but we always made fun of the East German olympic team, the female athletes wee on so many forms of steriod that they needed to shave more than their male team-mates...

11 ( +13 / -2 )

I am not against transgender living as they like, I don't even care or see any problem with them using the women's toilet no danger ( I do see a problem with the idea floating around on unisex public bathrooms the kind with communal stalls sinks etc.. it isn't the transgender I worry about it it the predators that can and will use those as hunting grounds)

In my neighborhood we have at least 3 people I know personally for 30 years that live as women despite being born male one is a very good client shows up in kimono is a tea ceremony teacher and brings his/her bowls and other pottery in for repair regularly one of my best and favorite clients.

But we do have to use logic in certain cases and sports is one, the physical differences are there denying them or wishing them gone will not change that.

We do not put a featherweight boxer up against a heavyweight because logic is the featherweight wouldn't stand a chance.

The same logic needs to be used here.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Might be dating myself a bit, but we always made fun of the East German olympic team, the female athletes wee on so many forms of steriod that they needed to shave more than their male team-mates...

Life was so much simpler in the past. I miss the olden days when the men didn’t have beards and the women were clean shaven.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

This is very difficult subject. Although I personally support people who want to change their gender, in some cases transgender people can be in unfair advantage.

In sports there are definitely some really strong ladies who would make most of ordinary men ashamed. However, male body is generally stronger than female body, especially when you compare athletes. If male athlete changes gender, body traits are still of the male athlete. Unless we are talking about sports where male and female athletes are competing together, M2F transgender athletes can have advantage over cis female ones when it comes to strength. I believe that the story would be quite different if the lady from this article were to compete in martial arts.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I believe that the story would be quite different if the lady from this article were to compete in martial arts.

I would like to see a woman compete in men's martial arts and get selected to represent her country. No sarcasm - I'd really like to see that! I don't think it will happen, but if it DID, it would be amazing to see!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Well, say goodbye to womens sports.

If identity equals biological gender, lets make it all co-ed!

13 ( +15 / -2 )

I'm absolutely for facilitating anyone who wants to play sport. But, this is the Olympics. It's not social sports.

I think this is a step too far. In the future we may have a fairer way of dividing people other than by gender lines. Unfortunately we don't really have those systems set up now.

Perhaps this will be the first step toward creating inclusive and fair groupings. But regardless, I know when we read the history books Hubbard will have an asterisk by her name. I feel for her fellow competitors.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

For me this just doesn't work in many sporting capacities, especially those that require strength and power.

It doesn't matter what her testosterone levels have been for the past however many months or years - she has benefitted from actually being a man for 35 years. That means her body was physiologically stronger for 35 years - a year at which most female athletes no longer participate at the highest levels - and that high level training and conditioning as a man must give her some benefit and unfair advantage now.

I have absolutely nothing against her wishes to transition, and would support all those who wish to do the same - but sports that require strength and power need to think about how best to allow all people to compete fairly. This isn't to say she shouldn't be allowed to compete - more that there should be other ways in which she can. The most logical solution to me seems to be having another two event categories - Transitioned Male and Transitioned female. That probably won't happen though as the optics appear discriminatory.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

For her to come back after breaking her arm, along with all the criticism, it must take a lot of balls.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Attilathehungry

Might be dating myself a bit, but we always made fun of the East German olympic team, the female athletes wee on so many forms of steriod that they needed to shave more than their male team-mates...

Oh yeah, I too remember those Sovjet shot-putters, topped up with testosterone to the brim. In those days, that was a big medical issue. Today, the old Sovjet sports apparachiks would have such an easy time.... just let every "identify" as female, and there you go.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I find it simply unacceptable. The only comfort is that it happens in a sport where the majority of top athletes cheat. The entire Romanian federation is currently banned.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Well, in Mixed Martial Arts there was a transgender competitor- Fallon Fox. Broke her opponent's skull within 2 minutes. Here is what Fox's opponent in that bout said:

I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not because I’m not a doctor. I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right. Her grip was different, I could usually move around in the clinch against other females but couldn’t move at all in Fox’s clinch.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

If a transgender, man to women, wants to compete then why not as a women in a mans category ? See how far they get

9 ( +10 / -1 )

it's so sad that women's sport is being ruined by biological men, purely to appease the 'feels' of a tiny minority. As a NZer, I feel indifferent towards Hubbard's identity, he can call himself whatever she pleases. But for the poor women that must compete against him - it is just sad that sports' institutions accept this.

15 ( +16 / -1 )

People are saying they are born the wrong gender and this has become acceptable. But as I pointed out others have claimed they are born the wrong ethnicity and this is not acceptable.

The two are clearly linked, the idea is that nature made a biological mistake and one can chose to correct that mistake in one instance but not in the other.

That's a ridiculous argumentum ad absurdum. You might as well argue that people can feel that they were born the wrong height. Being born the wrong sex clearly has a much greater impact on people's lives.

And your point has little to do with the topic at hand.

And while I wish the transgender woman the best of luck, if she gets a medal it will devalue it for others and cause cause resentment for those who miss out on medals. However, this is the IOC's problem - they set the entry criteria, not New Zealand's or three competitor's.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Okay, hypothetical question; what if there was a female-born athlete that had a similar bone density and muscle development to a male? Would you say she should be banned?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

That's a ridiculous argumentum ad absurdum. You might as well argue that people can feel that they were born the wrong height. Being born the wrong sex clearly has a much greater impact on people's lives.

Now give us a logical reason not your feelings.

If you Think someone that is born with a genetic weight disorder has it better or less problems than an fully healthy man that says hevusca woman then you need to learn a few things.

Being born with autism has far more impact than feeling you are the wrong gender, having any serious disability has more impact even dyslexia has more impact.

But in this case like all the related cases the LGBTQ................ Community is loud very loud and organised and is given far more than groups that actually need more but are unable to get more because they are more often than not drowned out by the far more vocal groups.

A 140kg Hubbard is competing in 87 kg up category the next heaviest born female is barely 100kg if she qualifies if not the next is just over 90kg as a man the category would be 109 kg up.

No 109kg category for women because there has never been a need for it and ask yourself why that is?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I can see the reasoning behind this but it's totally flawed. To be fair to one person, giving him/her the right to compete, you're unfair tall the others.

I wish they would collectively abandon the competition.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Okay, hypothetical question; what if there was a female-born athlete that had a similar bone density and muscle development to a male? Would you say she should be banned?

Well that depends on certain things, if that is the case then the probably is they will also have far higher testosterone in which case they will be treated like a transgender.

But bone density is only part of the advantage hemoglobin and blood volume, lung capacity, heart size are all a factor.

I imagine if a female had the hemoglobin of a man and the oxigen saturation of a man it would trigger a blood doping investigation.

From what I have read transgender Athletes are expected to show higher oxygenation levels than born female so no investigation into possible blood doping.

So basically if such a female existed they would be subjected to far more scrutiny than the transgender.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

A 140kg Hubbard is competing in 87 kg up category 

Hubbard can't even compete in that weight class in the men's category and now he's competing in the women's 87kg?

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Moderators, I don't think the correct picture has been used. The caption says she's lifting in the snatch

6 ( +7 / -1 )

She has since met all of the requirements of the International Olympic Committee’s regulations for trans athletes and fair competition.

Plenty of posters said the Olympics would following the advice of experts and held under the high test scrutiny. I guess you didn’t mean this huh?

Take the package.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

letsberealistic

Okay, hypothetical question; what if there was a female-born athlete that had a similar bone density and muscle development to a male? Would you say she should be banned?

Nope, there would be no issue. There have always been people with exceptional bodies, nothing to do with "identity". Next question?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

A 140kg Hubbard is competing in 87 kg up category 

Hubbard can't even compete in that weight class in the men's category and now he's competing in the women's 87kg?

A technicality!

87 kg is the highest women's category.

Only one woman was 100kg previously most of the heavyweight women are no more than 90kg

I did find out there was talks and plans to add a new higher category but it was scrapped when they realised the only one competing that would be in it would be Hubbard.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

What a travesty.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

This truly will be the most progressive Olympics. Can't wait to see her in the snatch.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Good luck to her

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Boooooo, this is ridiculous and lacks common sense !

7 ( +8 / -1 )

I did find out there was talks and plans to add a new higher category but it was scrapped when they realised the only one competing that would be in it would be Hubbard.

When they decided to allow men in women's divisions they should have automatically created similar weight classes/ categories for the women's divisions even if there are no competitors in those categories yet.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Reckless

Nah, mate. I've already claimed the comedy gold for that joke

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I think this is wrong on so many levels. However, poetic justice does put a smile on my face. Who else wants some equality? It's a great time to be a feminist.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

When they decided to allow men in women's divisions they should have automatically created similar weight classes/ categories for the women's divisions even if there are no competitors in those categories yet.

Can you imagine the outcry from the transgender community if that was done?

Hubbard would be the only one in the category and would get a medal for just showing up.

But the community would scream to high heavens that it was discrimination to isolate Hubbard.

Now guess why it wasn't done.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

 knowing they actually destroyed women's sport.

Unfortunately that not a laughing matter.

That's a gigantic step backwards for women's rights.

This is just a start

7 ( +8 / -1 )

This is just not right.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

I thought the main point of competitive sports is for participation and strategy, not necessarily winning.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

When they decided to allow men in women's divisions they should have automatically created similar weight classes/ categories for the women's divisions even if there are no competitors in those categories yet.

Can you imagine the outcry from the transgender community if that was done?

Hubbard would be the only one in the category and would get a medal for just showing up.

But the community would scream to high heavens that it was discrimination to isolate Hubbard.

Now guess why it wasn't done.

Because they were stupid.

The way to do it would be to add all mirror categories in all sports to make way for the planned inclusion.

Now if any male chooses to cross over in any sport we are looking at a gross overmatch like this one

2 ( +2 / -0 )

There can be legitimate ways to counter this decision. "Men" are "men" and "women" are "women" isn't one of them as there have always been people whose gender had to be "tested" (which is a bit more complicated than some have eloquently suggested here). Even then, in some cases, their participation was controversial.

It would be naive to expect nuance in a comment section on this type of topic. However, there have been trans men (that is born as female) in professional sports throughout history as well. Wikipedia is your friend.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Not just because it's a male but also because most probably a lot bigger and stronger because no weight category restraints

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Have no issue with people choosing the gender they identify with.

This is BS. If a young man transitions before going through puberty that’s one thing. But post pubescent males are biological men, with all the size/strength advantages that entails. Why this stuff is labeled “feel good progress” is baffling.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

The way to do it would be to add all mirror categories in all sports to make way for the planned inclusion.

That is called compromise and unfortunately that community does not know the meaning.

Take public toilets, some refuse to use men's or women's and want unisex, a compromise was proposed in many western countries having a solitary unisex, disabilities, etc.. toilet ( similar to what we have in most malls in Japan.

This was rejected by the LGBTQ.....etc... Community as they want only their way and nothing else.

In this case Hubbard has to compete with born women in order to further their agenda anything else is unacceptable.

This hardline stance is why so many of my LG friends have given up on the BTQ....etc... And openly say it is time to distance themselves from that part of the community

6 ( +7 / -1 )

ian

Unfortunately that not a laughing matter.

That's a gigantic step backwards for women's rights.

This is just a start

Actually, this is so visually absurd, maybe it finally causes a backlash against this insanity. I am sort of glad the person is allowed to compete as a woman, just to demonstrate how misguided this policy is.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Well, some female-born athletes do have high levels of testosterone and that's probably unfair, too. Sports is about testosterone levels. I say compete in the same field with similar testosterone levels.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

This isn't going to make the world more accepting of 'transgender' people...

It just publicly shows how ridiculous some ideas are

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Yotomaya

It would be naive to expect nuance in a comment section on this type of topic. However, there have been trans men (that is born as female) in professional sports throughout history as well. Wikipedia is your friend.

I looked at your friend Wikipedia. The only trans-man your friend it mentions is Chris Mosler. All the other names mentioned are, unsurprisingly, trans-women.

Obviously, transitioning to the much harder men's division is a much less of an issue than for a biological male to beat biological women in the women's division. Hats off to Chris Mosler, but he would have dominated the womens section anyway.

So.... I don´t see this "throughout history" here.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

What is the point of having separate sex categories for sport if biological males can compete in the female category? It’s cheating and denies a female a place at the Games. How will this encourage women and girls to get involved in sport. This is wrong. In team events allowing biological males to compete in female events is dangerous for the females.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

@Zaphod

I don't know if we're looking at the same page, but I found a whole list. I didn't go through all the names, but it turns out that some of the earlier ones did compete against women. My bad.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Zaphod

Unfortunately that not a laughing matter.

That's a gigantic step backwards for women's rights.

This is just a start

Actually, this is so visually absurd, maybe it finally causes a backlash against this insanity. I am sort of glad the person is allowed to compete as a woman, just to demonstrate how misguided this policy is.

What I was thinking also, hopefully something good will come out of this like the stake holders confronting this issue head on and have serious discussions instead of just pandering to avoid confrontation.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Well it is gonna happen and I am gonna enjoy watching it. Take your complaints to Dick Pound for the next round.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I wonder whether there have been any transgendered men who have competed (and won).

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Well, some female-born athletes do have high levels of testosterone and that's probably unfair, too. Sports is about testosterone levels. I say compete in the same field with similar testosterone levels.

Before posting look up the facts.

The average female has between between 0.3 and 2.4 nmol/L.

Even very high level rarely reach 4 nmol/L ( men 7 ~ 31 nmol/L )

Further more any born female over 5 nmol/L must reduce their testosterone below that level for 12 months the same as transgender but without the benefits of higher bone density, higher hemoglobin, etc..

Depending on the discipline/sport if a born women's testosterone is over 3.5 nmol/L they may be subjected to extra scrutiny for possible doping.(this all depends on their sport's governing body).

As pointed out many times the testosterone level is a false flag to distract from the other transgender advantage, such as bone density, bone structure, hemoglobin levels, blood volume, lung capacity, heart capacity, etc... All these are far more adventitious to an athlete than testosterone.

That is why blood doping became far more popular, storing high oxygenated blood and transfusing it just before competition to boost blood volume and oxygenation.

Transgender have this blood and oxigen advantage naturally over born women.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Well it is gonna happen and I am gonna enjoy watching it. Take your complaints to Dick Pound for the next round.

People all over the world are enjoying sports this very moment. Don't see how it could be different especially for an event like the Olympics.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

But I doubt even New Zealanders will enjoy this particular event, win or lose

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Perhaps they should select an entire “women’s” squad of trans gender athletes, they would clean up on the women’s Olympic medals!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

New Zealand's Laurel Hubbard, entered life as a male. I enter life as female, neither Hubbard or I can change that fact.

Well hold the press. Hubbard can when competing in the Olympic Games, at the expense of Girls born Girls, not Men.

Keep politics out of sport.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

ian

But I doubt even New Zealanders will enjoy this particular event, win or lose

I expect many of them feel embarrassed when this person comes home with a gold medal from the womens division.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

IOC permitted it. Apparently they are the experts. If you don’t like it maybe take it up with them.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

The last post but one, stayed up longer than I expected, provocative, some would contend as offensive.

New Zealand Olympic Committee chief executive Kereyn Smith said it's clear Hubbard has met all the criteria to compete in Tokyo.

We acknowledge that gender identity in sport is a highly sensitive and complex issue requiring a balance between human rights and fairness on the field of play," Smith said. "As the New Zealand Team, we have a strong culture of manaaki (hospitality) and inclusion and respect for all.

"We are committed to supporting all eligible New Zealand athletes and ensuring their mental and physical wellbeing, along with their high-performance needs, while preparing for and competing at the Olympic Games are met.”

The above is a political statement, has not basis in fact or sport.

Certainly New Zealand Olympic Committee chief executive Kereyn Smith concludes in retrospect Hubbard has met all the political inclusive criteria.

Hubbard was born male no amount of political spin will change that fact.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I have a question that I know will upset many but here it goes.

Hubbard has not "fully" transitioned.

This means at anytime Hubbard can revert back to being a man.

Now remember we now have many new categories like pangender non-binary, fluid gender, etc..

So what happens if Hubbard wins and in the future decides to be a man again or another category not woman but pan/fluid/non-binary, etc..

Does Hubbard still get to keep the medals and titties?

Interesting thought for the future!

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Wot about the chromosomes?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

@Antiquesaving

I don't believe her record as a man gets wiped so I suspect "Yes" is the not so interesting answer

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I call this cheating because the person was a guy loaded with testosterone and power lifting and now a man trapping a female body with hormone injections is like why can’t load up on TRT which stands for testosterone replacement therapy….. still cheatyas it being on gear

6 ( +8 / -2 )

The system is soooo rigged

7 ( +8 / -1 )

I don't believe her record as a man gets wiped so I suspect "Yes" is the not so interesting answer

Born a man that is understandable, declaring one's self a woman is very different.

I can declare myself a genius but that doesn't make me a genius.

I can claim to have brown eyes and wear brown contacts but that does not mean my eyes are actually brown.

Long ago I work in an institution during summer holidays and one patient claimed he was a cat, would only eat and drink from a bowl on the floor, purred, licked himself to wash, etc.. that still didn't make him a cat.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

“Life-changing opportunities are missed for some athletes — medals and Olympic qualifications — and we are powerless. Of course, this debate is taking place in a broader context of discrimination against transgender people and that is why the question is never free of ideology.”

This debate should be taking place in a broader context of discrimination against women.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

How disgusting does it get? One more reason not to watch these cursed "olympics". I just hate the PC woke world this has become.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

No Government, or opinion can, will, or be allowed, question Laurel Hubbard human right to choice to be whatever Laurel Hubbard wants to be whether sexuality, gender preference/. How Laurel Hubbard want to dress, to live life is her choice.

Now when it comes to sport, I believe there has to be a level playing field, that girls must be girls and boys must be boys. No umms and ahhs, natures rules must be first and foremost.

No brick layers in lipstick, we enter this world as nature intended and we all accept that fact.

No if, buts or maybes, nature decides our agenda at birth. nuff said, cut me down if you wish, but that is my humble opinion for what it is worth.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

I feel bad for all the women athletes who dreamed of competing in the olympics only to have the dream crushed by a man.

17 ( +19 / -2 )

what kind of madness is this! we cannot be silent, enough is enough. If you are having problem figuring out if you are a man or a woman, take a long look at your body. It's not that difficult to figure out. GEEZ!!!

9 ( +9 / -0 )

I feel bad for all the women athletes who dreamed of competing in the olympics only to have the dream crushed by a man.

You are missing the point. Laurel Hubbard is a woman from top to bottom. She dreams of competing in the Olympics. Get over it.

-19 ( +1 / -20 )

I think the "T" in LBGT destroys all the other characters. If gender becomes a matter of choice, everything becomes meaningless.

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Reckless, well put, Laurel Hubbard is a woman, and quiet rightly so.

Laurel Hubbard has made that gender choice.

In sport that is far from straight forward, especially in weight lifting.

I don't believe you cannot separate the two.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Laurel Hubbard is a woman from top to bottom.

With a little mental gymnastics sure. Maybe even in her mind. But physically and biologically she’s a man. I respect that. But Even though I refer to Hubbard as a she, I’ll always know that she’s a man who’s had some procedures done. Thanks to woke ideology, women are being discriminated against.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

You are missing the point. Laurel Hubbard is a woman from top to bottom. She dreams of competing in the Olympics. Get over it.

Sure an I have brown eye because I dream about it and wear brown contacts, is that how it goes?

About two years ago a lesbian friend was over the top angry, she had been seeing someone she meet online.

About a month into their relationship that person finally told her that they were transgender and still fully biologically male.

Even my friend will not accept that this person is a woman and is even more upset that she wasted time on a relationship with a "man" because biologically this transgender has hardware my lesbian friend is not interested in and doesn't have what she is interested in.

Just because I feel I want or am something I am not does not mean I have some right to it.

My body isn't what I want it to be, I have physical problems ASD dyslexia, do I think I have the body I deserve? NO! But can I just declare I am no longer ASD or dyslexic?

No that would be insane ad I would still have those things.

Sad they don't like being a man or being a woman, unfortunately that is how things go, just like I don't like having the disabilities I have but there is nothing I can do about it I was born this way and I have to live with that.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Goodlucktoyou, open, and very close, and personal.

i often wondered if there wasn’t the church, masculinity, they may also, if not drunk at the time, change their sexuality.

But can we really all accept at such a reality?

It is a question I venture to my rainbow colleges, the spectrum of sexuality and the acceptance within society of how we all choose to live are lives is open to the interpretation,

The political will to tolerate.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Reckless

You are missing the point. Laurel Hubbard is a woman from top to bottom.

Apparently not in the middle, as she has not done the conversion. And certainly in bone structure, bone density, muscle mass, and all the other reasons for sports being divided into XX and XY divisions.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Eventually sports organization will have to do proper science to make proper fair decisions. The current parameters are not actually science based. I mean, for all I know she would still be allowed to compete, but with some properly done studies to support that decision.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

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