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'Blackmail' charges fly in EU-Hungary standoff on Ukraine

102 Comments
By Anne-Laure MONDESERT

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102 Comments

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He needs to make a good show of it to please his role model, the alleged war criminal president of Russia. Once he sees there's no bribe coming though, he'll go along with whatever will keep the cash coming from the EU.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Cut off all funds. There is a price to intransigence and you better be prepared to pay it.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Faceless EUrocrats stooping to blackmail. Earth to Brussels: hurting the economy of a member state will hurt your own shared currency.

Hold the line Orban. The Eurocrats are playing with fire and fanning the flames across wider Europe and vindicating the UK leaving.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

Hold the line Orban. The Eurocrats are playing with fire and fanning the flames across wider Europe and vindicating the UK leaving.

100% agree

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

The Financial Times reported Monday that a confidential proposal circulating in Brussels called for shutting off all EU funding to Budapest, with the aim of spooking investors and sabotaging Hungary's fragile economy, should it refuse to play ball.

That would be a good start. If you can't play nice with the EU consensus, they they don't have to play nice with you.

And if your economy tanks, you may be out of job...

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

JJE

vindicating the UK leaving.

Yeah, and that work out real well for the UK. LOL ;-)

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

100% agree

Tucker got you on board with Orban, right? MAGA just loves it a good authoritarian wannabe dictator.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

100% agree

I understand why you would be against the U.S. helping Ukraine. I don’t understand why you support Orban on this. You’ve repeatedly said Europe should fund Ukraine’s defense. Hungary is part of Europe, and the EU.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Watch the EU plan backfire should they go through with it. Even more nonsensical than sanctions and cutting off cheap, abundant and geographically close energy and resources.

The elephant in the room is mentioned at the end of the article - they want to impose a huge migrant quota on Budapest and force them to take illegals. This is a non-starter.

Hungarian FM Peter Szijjarto was in Ukraine for discussions yesterday. A key bone of contention is civil and language rights for the Transcarpathian Hungarian minority there. They are trying to simplify a multi-faceted issue which is more complex than Viktor's alleged "intransigence".

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

Kyiv is not part of the EU. And the chance of it every joining is like a dot receding into the horizon.

The irony is Orban is saying out loud what many people think, especially some politicians who can't say it out loud - it's a foolhardy waste of money. He is actually saving the EU from itself.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

That's what you get when you allow such specimens in the EU - Hungarians would perhaps prefer to become one of the Soviet states themselves, after sucking at the EU's teat for decades...

5 ( +10 / -5 )

bass4funkToday 07:16 am JST

Hold the line Orban. The Eurocrats are playing with fire and fanning the flames across wider Europe and vindicating the UK leaving.

100% agree

Wanting some cover for your surrender?

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Tucker got you on board with Orban, right?

Actually, I liked the guy before he did the Tucker interview.

MAGA just loves it a good authoritarian wannabe dictator.

If you think so.

I understand why you would be against the U.S. helping Ukraine.

You do? God knows I’ve been saying this daily.

I don’t understand why you support Orban on this. You’ve repeatedly said Europe should fund Ukraine’s defense. Hungary is part of Europe, and the EU.

Yes, but that doesn’t mean that they have to vote in lockstep. I mean in the U.S. as one nation our Capitol wants open borders, Texas doesn’t, they want to uphold national sovereignty. Same thing, same analogy.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

JJE

Kyiv is not part of the EU. And the chance of it every joining is like a dot receding into the horizon.

Ukraine will be part of the EU one day.

The irony is Orban is saying out loud what many people think, especially some politicians who can't say it out loud - it's a foolhardy waste of money.

He's entitled to his minority opinion. I find it short-sighted and in fact, not giving Ukraine aid will be more expensive in the long run.

He is actually saving the EU from itself.

No. He isn't. The EU know what they are doing.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Bullies like Orban usually fold when they're threatened by someone more powerful. Now he's really stuck in a pickle... can't look weak to his people after he talked big, but scared he'll be cut off by the EU.

Faceless EUrocrats stooping to blackmail. Earth to Brussels: hurting the economy of a member state will hurt your own shared currency.

Hold the line Orban. The Eurocrats are playing with fire and fanning the flames across wider Europe and vindicating the UK leaving.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Take it easy on Orban, he may be a moderate. Some politicians in Hungary want to occupy and annex the Transcarpathia region of the Ukraine where ethnic Hungarians have suffered under control of Kiev. It was part of Hungary until the CCCP cut it off and glued it onto the Ukraine.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Yes, but that doesn’t mean that they have to vote in lockstep. I mean in the U.S. as one nation our Capitol wants open borders, Texas doesn’t, they want to uphold national sovereignty. Same thing, same analogy.

Weird analogy in a few ways. (Texas wants to “uphold national sovereignty”?)

If Hungary doesn’t want to be a member of Europe, they shouldn’t get the money either.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Weird analogy in a few ways. (Texas wants to “uphold national sovereignty”?)

Border.

If Hungary doesn’t want to be a member of Europe, they shouldn’t get the money either.

Let Europe figure that out, but DC says the thing about Texas as well.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

bass4funk

I mean in the U.S. as one nation our Capitol wants open borders,

No. Neither Democrats nor the GOP want open borders.

Texas doesn’t, they want to uphold national sovereignty. Same thing, same analogy.

What Texas wants is authority to enforce the border. They don't have that authority. National borders fall under federal authority, not state authority.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Hungary PM saying out loud what the majority of people in EU believe now, that US NATO Ukraine proxy war's failing badly, and most people no longer support it.

Why? EU voters sophisticated, know Russian speaking Ukrainians have sought their legal independence from Ukraine for 10 years. It was low-grade civil war initially.

Civil war greatly escalated due to Biden assuming power, major policy change to massively equip, train and integrate Ukraine into NATO command structure, causing Russian 'invasion' = escalation of civil war.

Naturally, Russia says their legally supporting those seeking their independence for CAUSE = human, property and citizenship rights violations.

Obviously, Ukraine Civil War escalation has had huge negative European implications, from inflation to supply chains to geopolitical, hardly low-grade civil war now. Nobody in EU wants WWIII, global chaos spreading etc.

Hungary's PM quietly supported by many EU leaders all with poor approval ratings due to Ukraine political reality. Their job security at stake = many running against EU incumbents now on ending Ukraine proxy war support.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Tucker got you on board with Orban, right? MAGA just loves it a good authoritarian wannabe dictator.

Fun fact: Tucker's dad is a lobbyist that does lobbying work for Viktor Orban. "Freethinker" Tucker probably gets paid to simp for Orban, and his dumb followers will just lap it all up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Carlson#Foreign_relations

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/07/world/europe/tucker-carlson-hungary.html

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

The EU is only bound by their own rules - no consensus, no deal. There was presumably a reason why they made them that way. If they just wanted to push through majority decisions across the board, they could do what governments always do and change their own rules to get their own way. Orban may simply be doing what Erdogan does - playing them for the maximum that he can get.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Tucker got you on board with Orban, right?

Is Carlson still scamming the viewers?

This man has some front. I’ve never seen a character so impervious to shame.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

this is how EU values looks like in reality.

dont need to say more.

Viktor dont give up you are not alone.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Hungary's nationalist Prime Minister Viktor Orban saying out loud what many of his EU political peers believe but fear to say in public, that's what makes him powerful.

Orban's collation of EU pol's growing fast as Ukraine becomes greater and greater failed state and Risks Rise.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

HopeSpringsEternalToday 09:50 am JST

Still Putins' War

0 ( +8 / -8 )

HopeSpringsEternalToday 09:50 am JST

Naturally, Russia says their legally supporting those seeking their independence for CAUSE = human, property and citizenship rights violations.

Nothing legal about Russia invading for "independence" (and then annexation).

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Orban's collation of EU pol's growing fast

Eh?

Slow down a bit. Hard to know what Carlson is saying here.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

HopeSpringsEternal

Hungary PM saying out loud what the majority of people in EU believe now, that US NATO Ukraine proxy war's failing badly, and most people no longer support it.

That's not true. The majority of people in Europe support aiding Ukraine in their defence of Russian imperialism.

Also, this is not a proxy war.

Civil war greatly escalated due to Biden assuming power, major policy change to massively equip, train and integrate Ukraine into NATO command structure, causing Russian 'invasion' = escalation of civil war.

This is completely untrue. It was Trump who increased arming Ukraine. Who would have thought.

The Russian invasion is not an escalation. Putin wants regime change, a puppet in Kyiv and all of Ukraine.

Naturally, Russia says their legally supporting those seeking their independence for CAUSE = human, property and citizenship rights violations.

Naturally Russia are lying. Also, there are no human, property and citizenship rights violations.

Obviously, Ukraine Civil War escalation

It's not a civil war escalation. It's a Russian invasion. Sure Russia started the civil war, but this is just an escalation. Putin wants regime change and Russification of all of Ukraine.

Hungary's PM quietly supported by many EU leaders all with poor approval ratings due to Ukraine political reality. 

Untrue. All other EU country supports Ukraine.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Unmentioned here is Orban also wants independent oversight of the funds before they disappear into the black hole of corruption of the intended destination. Sensible initiative considering recent revelations.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

" If they just wanted to push through majority decisions across the board, they could do what governments always do and change their own rules to get their own way. Orban may simply be doing what Erdogan does - playing them for the maximum that he can get."

Yes, I agree with your opinion.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

JJE

Unmentioned here is Orban also wants independent oversight of the funds before they disappear into the black hole of corruption of the intended destination. Sensible initiative considering recent revelations.

He doesn't need to worry. This already exists.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

"Freethinker" Tucker probably gets paid to simp for Orban, and his dumb followers will just lap it all up.

Do you have any proof for this accusation? Of course not.

"If you can't play nice with the EU consensus, they they don't have to play nice with you."

Sounds like they are really following through with those democratic principles they supposedly hold so dear - do what we say or else!

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

TaiwanIsNotChinaToday  10:14 am JST

HopeSpringsEternalToday 09:50 am JST

Naturally, Russia says their legally supporting those seeking their independence for CAUSE = human, property and citizenship rights violations.

Nothing legal about Russia invading for "independence" (and then annexation).

Matter for lawyers at UN and elsewhere to work out. US supported breaking up Yugoslavian for many of same reasons, ethnic tensions. Seems as if that was legal?

Lots of elections held, evidence presented and UN paperwork to justify these regions becoming Russian.

Hungary's PM Orban gets above, as do many other EU leaders less willing to speak publicly but all understand political reality of failed US NATO Ukraine Proxy War.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

La vie douce

"If you can't play nice with the EU consensus, they they don't have to play nice with you."

Sounds like they are really following through with those democratic principles they supposedly hold so dear - do what we say or else!

It's called political negotiation.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Hungary's PM quietly supported by many EU leaders all with poor approval ratings due to Ukraine political reality

Incredible how simple things are, eh?

Paper and crayons. No scissors.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

HopeSpringsEternalToday 10:38 am JST

TaiwanIsNotChinaToday  10:14 am JST

HopeSpringsEternalToday 09:50 am JST

Naturally, Russia says their legally supporting those seeking their independence for CAUSE = human, property and citizenship rights violations.

Nothing legal about Russia invading for "independence" (and then annexation).

Matter for lawyers at UN and elsewhere to work out. US supported breaking up Yugoslavian for many of same reasons, ethnic tensions. Seems as if that was legal?

Oh, I see, we need to sort that out in court, huh? Well, sorry, but people can see what obviously a facist land grab with their own two eyes. And Russia signed on to KFOR in Kosovo that renders inane that nonargument.

Lots of elections held, evidence presented and UN paperwork to justify these regions becoming Russian.

Oh I see. You just hold the illegal elections and spam the paperwork and you are all good with the international law.

Hungary's PM Orban gets above, as do many other EU leaders less willing to speak publicly but all understand political reality of failed US NATO Ukraine Proxy War.

Still Putin's War

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

I wonder who the Kyiv bagman is on this deal and what is the take.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

To those on this forum from authoritarian countries - democracy isn’t a suicide pact.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Well, negotiation goes both ways, so the "give me, or else" ultimatum doesn't always work.

"If you can't play nice with the EU consensus, they they don't have to play nice with you."

Sounds like they are really following through with those democratic principles they supposedly hold so dear - do what we say or else!

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

UChosePoorlyToday  10:46 am JST

To those on this forum from authoritarian countries - democracy isn’t a suicide pact.

How right you are, as leading democracies 'outsource' the dying to innocents in Ukraine being exploited by corrupt unelected special interests with their globalist agenda, dangerously destabilizing the entire world.

Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban Gets ABOVE.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

"Sounds like they are really following through with those democratic principles they supposedly hold so dear - do what we say or else!

It's called political negotiation."

That is one way to call it , or as the article headline says others see it as blackmail. Still, Orban will possibly go along with it once he can extract as much from the EU as he can. Political negotiation indeed.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

PM Oban of Hungary believe in Yugoslavian 'peace model' for Ukraine = let people align with those they choose.

Democracy in Russia's different than Ukraine, like present day Yugoslavia, now 3 distinct peaceful countries.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

HopeSpringsEternal

Nothing legal about Russia invading for "independence" (and then annexation).

Matter for lawyers at UN and elsewhere to work out.

No. It's already determined illegal.

US supported breaking up Yugoslavian for many of same reasons, ethnic tensions. Seems as if that was legal?

Ukraine has nothing to do with Yugoslavia. It's not even similar.

Lots of elections held, evidence presented and UN paperwork to justify these regions becoming Russian.

No elections have been held. No amount of paperwork can justify these regions becoming Russian

Hungary's PM Orban gets above, as do many other EU leaders less willing to speak publicly

No, even Orban knows it's an illegal, imperial invasion. As do all EU leaders.

but all understand political reality of failed US NATO Ukraine Proxy War

This is not a US NATO war. They are not involved. Nor is this a proxy war. It is an imperial invasion by Russia.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

HopeSpringsEternal

PM Oban of Hungary believe in Yugoslavian 'peace model' for Ukraine = let people align with those they choose.

Citation please.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

La vie douce

It's called political negotiation."

That is one way to call it , or as the article headline says others see it as blackmail.

Sure, it started with Orban's blackmail.

Still, Orban will possibly go along with it once he can extract as much from the EU as he can. Political negotiation indeed.

I indeed think he will. As he should for peace in the world.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

"Cut off all funds. There is a price to intransigence and you better be prepared to pay it."

Indeed. By the same token, supporters of cutting the funds then also support cuts to military "aid " by the White House when it comes to Israel's intransigence, non?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Hungary has more in common with Russia, yet Ukraine has more in common with the EU.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Hungary,Slovakia as now.no guns no bullets to be sent to Kiev junta.

message is very clear.start to talk about peace asap.

stop this conflict now.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

2020hindsightsToday  11:11 am JST

HopeSpringsEternal

PM Oban of Hungary believe in Yugoslavian 'peace model' for Ukraine = let people align with those they choose.

Citation please.

People of all former Ukrainian regions have spoken loud and clear, they are NOT interested in Kiev's 'Democracy'.

Strange for me, why those in charge Kiev believe ethic Russian speaking and former Ukranian, but now Russia citizens would ever be willing to become Ukranian?

It's anti-democratic mentality in Kiev, people above have spoken. It's NO different than former Yugoslavia, free will matters. Otherwise, it's nonstop cycle of violence. PM Oban of Hungary gets it, practical solutions are best.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

If one thinks about it, PM Oban's had bird's eye view of those seeking their legal independence, as Hungary's right next door to both former Yugoslavia and Ukraine.

Oban get it, he's RIGHT, endless violence = insanity

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

HopeSpringsEternal

PM Oban of Hungary believe in Yugoslavian 'peace model' for Ukraine = let people align with those they choose.

Citation please.

People of all former Ukrainian regions have spoken loud and clear, they are NOT interested in Kiev's 'Democracy'.

That's not a citation and doesn't even talk about Orban.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

HopeSpringsEternal

Yes UA is not homogenic one nation country.Say Zakarpatie oblast.Russyns,Hungarians,Slovaks,Poles,Romanians.Russians as well.Ukrainians-very few.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

2020hindsightsToday  11:35 am JST

HopeSpringsEternal

PM Oban of Hungary believe in Yugoslavian 'peace model' for Ukraine = let people align with those they choose.

Citation please.

People of all former Ukrainian regions have spoken loud and clear, they are NOT interested in Kiev's 'Democracy'.

That's not a citation and doesn't even talk about Orban.

By spoken, I mean they, former Ukranians have held numerous elections, spilled their blood for 10 years and countless UN humanitarian charges against Kiev etc.

PM Orban often compares former Yugoslavia with present day Ukraine, same need to legally partition, but not along ethnic lines but rather mother tongue in case of former Ukraine areas now Russian. Why?

End the cycle of violence.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

HopeSpringsEternal

Correct.To get this you dont need to be some "russian specialist" making tens of comments daily here.

Lets hope that common sense will prevail in Kiev as soon as money from abroad will get dry.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

HopeSpringsEternalToday 10:57 am JST

PM Oban of Hungary believe in Yugoslavian 'peace model' for Ukraine = let people align with those they choose.

He can believe in Russia's fascist plan all he wants. Doesn't mean anyone will join the fascist bandwagon.

Democracy in Russia's different than Ukraine, like present day Yugoslavia, now 3 distinct peaceful countries.

Democracy in Russia is nonexistent.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Lets hope that common sense will prevail in Kiev as soon as money from abroad will get dry.

PM Oban agrees and he's drying up $money, so end game definitely here regarding Ukraine madness. Seems US politics trending that way as well.

World's got bigger fish to fry than this former contained civil war, that's become far too dangerous with no benefit, other than MORE death & destruction or WORSE.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

taiwan you still owe me apology for your rude comments.

if you want to discuss about some topics/say Russia/you should know more.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Man! Interesting photo of that guy with his mouth open.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

HopeSpringsEternalToday 11:30 am JST

People of all former Ukrainian regions have spoken loud and clear, they are NOT interested in Kiev's 'Democracy'.

People across Ukraine have spoken loud and clear, they are NOT interested in Russia's regime change plan for Ukraine.

Strange for me, why those in charge Kiev believe ethic Russian speaking and former Ukranian, but now Russia citizens would ever be willing to become Ukranian?

Strange for me that people don't understand the concept of international law, noninterference, and territorial integrity.

It's anti-democratic mentality in Kiev, people above have spoken. It's NO different than former Yugoslavia, free will matters. Otherwise, it's nonstop cycle of violence. PM Oban of Hungary gets it, practical solutions are best.

Yugoslavia was an internal struggle aside from Russian approved KFOR mission in Kosovo.

By spoken, I mean they, former Ukranians have held numerous elections, spilled their blood for 10 years and countless UN humanitarian charges against Kiev etc.

And I am sure that has some legal basis although I still await it from the apologist. 141 countries condemned Russia's fascist invasion.

PM Orban often compares former Yugoslavia with present day Ukraine, same need to legally partition, but not along ethnic lines but rather mother tongue in case of former Ukraine areas now Russian. Why?

Why indeed. There is no legal justification and Russia annexes, not grants independence.

End the cycle of violence.

End the immoral calls for surrender.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

HopeSpringsEternalToday 12:00 pm JST

Lets hope that common sense will prevail in Kiev as soon as money from abroad will get dry.

PM Oban agrees and he's drying up $money, so end game definitely here regarding Ukraine madness. Seems US politics trending that way as well.

World's got bigger fish to fry than this former contained civil war, that's become far too dangerous with no benefit, other than MORE death & destruction or WORSE.

Still Putin's War. Still Russia's responsibility to withdraw.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

HopeSpringsEternal

PM Orban often compares former Yugoslavia with present day Ukraine

OK, so if he does, do you have a citation?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

We can all agree a peaceful end to Ukraine's long term civil war/tragedy is the first step towards their recovery!

PM Orban wants to see thriving Ukraine and Europe, not more senseless bloodshed with no change in outcome.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

HopeSpringsEternal

We can all agree a peaceful end to Ukraine's long term civil war/tragedy is the first step towards their recovery!

Agreed. This will require a full withdrawal of Russia's imperial forces.

You seem to be under this misunderstanding that the war is about autonomy of the Dombas. It isn't. That is not why Putin invaded. He invaded to depose Zelensky, install a puppet president, and Russify Ukraine.

So peace isn't going come from a Yugoslavia model, because that is not what the war is about. It's about Putin's imperialism.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

So peace isn't going come from a Yugoslavia model, because that is not what the war is about. It's about Putin's imperialism.

Your opinion. For Putin, Ukraine civil war problem needs a solution, these people will fight endlessly rather than submit to Kiev. Putin's under political pressure to assist their legal independence, assimilate them into Russia.

Again, PM Orban sees the above reality, end the bloodshed, there's no imperialism, just practicality.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

We can all agree a peaceful end to Ukraine's long term civil war/tragedy is the first step towards their recovery!

Sure yes.Before that we must talk about reason for this conflict.Remove that reason,solve that problem first,than makes sense to start to talk about peace.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

No, even Orban knows it's an illegal, imperial invasion. As do all EU leaders.

Nevertheless, four countries - Hungary, Romania, Slovakia and Poland - are on a low start" in anticipation of the collapse of Ukraine. Each of them hopes to snatch a piece of territory that once belonged to them in history. The split of desires and public revelations. And be sure, when the moment of partition comes, there will be all the legal grounds to justify the redistribution.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Is Carlson still scamming the viewers? 

Absolutely not.

This man has some front. I’ve never seen a character so impervious to shame.

Naw, love the guy. A real leader

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

HopeSpringsEternal

So peace isn't going come from a Yugoslavia model, because that is not what the war is about. It's about Putin's imperialism.

Your opinion.

Based on facts.

For Putin, Ukraine civil war problem needs a solution,

He started the civil, so I doubt he thinks it needs any other solution other than a land grab.

these people will fight endlessly rather than submit to Kiev.

They were fine before 2014 when Putin sent troops in.

Putin's under political pressure to assist their legal independence,

No he isn't. Helping the Dombas was a pretext to the invasion. It wasn't the reason for the invasion.

assimilate them into Russia.

That's what Putin wants - a land grab.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Eastman

We can all agree a peaceful end to Ukraine's long term civil war/tragedy is the first step towards their recovery!

Sure yes.Before that we must talk about reason for this conflict.Remove that reason,solve that problem first,than makes sense to start to talk about peace.

The reason is Putin's imperialism. So the solution looks like the removal of Putin?

3 ( +7 / -4 )

202hindsights

what or who is Dombas?tried google,tried yahoo,tried even yandex...as I wanted to know about that pretext to the invasion.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Do we really want this Ukraine civil war to continue another 10 years? Orban views the ongoing bloodshed as going terribly expensive with no benefit.

Practical solutions usually best, it's clear these Russian speaking people in former Ukraine wish to be Russian.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Eastman

202hindsights

what or who is Dombas?tried google,tried yahoo,tried even yandex...as I wanted to know about that pretext to the invasion.

Sorry typo. Donbas

Petty.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Nevertheless, four countries - Hungary, Romania, Slovakia and Poland - are on a low start" in anticipation of the collapse of Ukraine. Each of them hopes to snatch a piece of territory that once belonged to them in history. The split of desires and public revelations. And be sure, when the moment of partition comes, there will be all the legal grounds to justify the redistribution.

Your view, but PM Orban and others Desire regional stability for a change, not incremental border gains.

TEN YEAR Ukraine CIVIL War = TOO LONG

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

2020hindsights

typo solved.so bad in this forum we cant repair our comments after sending.20th century tech...

so what pretext you are talking about?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

HopeSpringsEternal

Practical solutions usually best, it's clear these Russian speaking people in former Ukraine wish to be Russian.

Unfortunately, that won't end the war.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

2020hindsights

my citation please?About Putin removal.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Do you have any proof for this accusation? Of course not.

I provided two links. Of course I have proof.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

2020hindsightsToday  12:40 pm JST

HopeSpringsEternal

Practical solutions usually best, it's clear these Russian speaking people in former Ukraine wish to be Russian.

Unfortunately, that won't end the war.

You might be right, but money drying up and political costs rising, and general 10 year civil war fatigue, that can end things quickly. Then recovery can begin!

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Might add vibrant Ukranian democracy cannot exist within the context on an ongoing civil war. PM Orban knows this, Kiev must recognize this truth.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

People across Ukraine have spoken loud and clear, they are NOT interested in Russia's regime change plan for Ukraine.

People in West Ukraine yeah, East / Donbass nope, they are pro Russian as they have demonstrated clearly and want to be part of Russia. Thats how this war will end up, along those lines.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

HopeSpringsEternal

You might be right, but money drying up and political costs rising, and general 10 year civil war fatigue, that can end things quickly. Then recovery can begin!

It's not a civil war. It's a war between Russia and Ukraine. So unless Russia stops, and Putin has said he wants Odesa, there will be no peace.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Might add vibrant Ukranian democracy cannot exist within the context on an ongoing civil war.

Nonsense. There is no Civil War. Russia invaded.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Ramsey's Kitchen

People across Ukraine have spoken loud and clear, they are NOT interested in Russia's regime change plan for Ukraine.

People in West Ukraine yeah, East / Donbass nope, they are pro Russian as they have demonstrated clearly and want to be part of Russia.

When?

Thats how this war will end up, along those lines.

Or if Ukraine is not supported, with Russia occupying the whole country.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Russian Speaking former Ukrainians beg to differ, they've sought and achieved their legal independence from Ukraine for CAUSE. That's the way the cookie crumbles. PM Orban agrees.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Your view, but PM Orban and others Desire regional stability for a change, not incremental border gains.

Bien sur, you are right, it's the very desire that is justified in the best human sense. But the redistribution of territories as a result of the collapse is the cherry on the cake, which it is a shame to talk about publicly, but which stands at least number two (according to the most modest estimates) in the list of goals, tasks and desires. With all my respect to Orban.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

to all of you my dear friends

all have started during Maidan coup when legitimate president Yanukovich was violently removed.

Crimea did not want join regime of Kievs junta so became part of Russia.

eastern parts of Ukraine with majority of Russians declared independence from Kiev junta.

civil war have started.

ATO of Poroshenko have started.

many civilians from Lugansk and Donbas areas have fled to Russia,many have died during UA forces bombardments.many ethnic Russians were killed and tortured by right wing UA forces/Azov etc/.remember Odessa?

Minsk agreements.Breaching of it from side of Kiev and its supporters.

Russians warning that their national interests are under thread.Western ignorance.

Russia took action against international law and have attacked UA.

There were few attempts to stop this conflict.Say in Istanbul.Both sides were close to peace agreement.BoJo came and have said NO.

War continues until now.

There is no military solution for it.Solve reasons why all of this have happened,than talk about peace this time seriously.ASAP

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Reasonable Ukrainians do not want as citizens those who've made it crystal clear via this ten-year bloody civil war, they do not wish to be Ukrainian citizens. PM Orban agree with them too!

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Eastman

to all of you my dear friends

all have started during Maidan coup

There was no coup.

when legitimate president Yanukovich was violently removed.

This didn't happen. Yanukovich fled to Russia.

Crimea did not want join regime of Kievs junta so became part of Russia.

No. Putin sent in troops and annexed Crimea.

eastern parts of Ukraine with majority of Russians declared independence from Kiev junta.

civil war have started.

With Russia sending in troops.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

The past is settled, let's make a better future for all of Ukraine and Russia. People need peace and security in order for this happen, that's PM Oban's objective!

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Eastman

Minsk agreements.Breaching of it from side of Kiev and its supporters.

Breached on both sides.

Russians warning that their national interests are under thread.Western ignorance.

Which, of course, they were.

Russia took action against international law and have attacked UA.

An illegal, imperial invasion of a sovereign country.

There were few attempts to stop this conflict.Say in Istanbul.Both sides were close to peace agreement.BoJo came and have said NO.

Sure. Since when does BoJo have authority of Ukraine?

War continues until now.

There is no military solution for it.Solve reasons why all of this have happened,than talk about peace this time seriously.ASAP

Putin's imperialism are the reasons, therein lies the solution.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

No solution to Putin except Armagedón, something PM Orban & reasonable people wish to avoid at ALL COSTS.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

The Treaty of Lisbon | Fact Sheets on the European Union

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/5/the-treaty-of-lisbon#:~:text=The%20Treaty%20of%20Lisbon%20gives,are%20compatible%20with%20EU%20law.

This is Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban  weapon of choice.

Blackmail? depends on which side of the fence one is peering over from.

For the EU to function at all, requires all member states cooperation.

Here is the ballot ground......

Annual EU budget 2024 - European Commission

https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/eu-budget/annual-eu-budget/all-annual-budgets/2024_en

Hungary open to using EU budget for Ukraine aid package

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungary-open-using-eu-budget-ukraine-aid-package-orbans-adviser-says-2024-01-29/#:~:text=The%20EU%20has%20suspended%20a,billion%20euros%20still%20remain%20frozen.

Viktor Orban is no fool.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

2020hindsights

you still owe me my citation about removal of Putin.

btw

maidan-ilegal coup

Yanukovich was removed against valid UA constitution than "fled"

Russian troops were in Crimea before maidan have started/hint Sevastopol russian navy base/

Russia did not send troops.if yes show evidence.

Minsk agreements were a tool for UA to buy time and weaponize against Russia,so breached by UA and its supportrs and guarantors/hint Merkel and her comment abt Minsk agreements.

BoJo was UK PM that time and yes USA/NATO have "authority" over Kiev junta-its crystal clear.

Reason was that Russia felt security threat from side of NATO and wanted to eliminate it.Russia have own national and security interests too/surprise?

now get my me my citation about removal of Putin.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

"Freethinker" Tucker probably gets paid to simp for Orban, and his dumb followers will just lap it all up.

Do you have any proof for this accusation? Of course not.

I provided two links. Of course I have proof."

No, I can't see it , where in those 2 links is a conclusive proof Tucker Carlson gets paid by Orban?

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Eastman

2020hindsights

you still owe me my citation about removal of Putin.

Removal of Putin? What are you talking about?

btw

maidan-ilegal coup

No. It was a peaceful protest, but Yanukovich sent in his goons.

Yanukovich was removed against valid UA constitution than "fled"

Yanukovich wasn't removed.

Russian troops were in Crimea before maidan have started/hint Sevastopol russian navy base/

But Russia still annexed Crimea.

Russia did not send troops.if yes show evidence.

Google "little green men"

Minsk agreements were a tool for UA to buy time and weaponize against Russia,so breached by UA and its supportrs and guarantors/hint Merkel and her comment abt Minsk agreements.

Sure. Why was Russia even permitted to be there considering they were an aggressor?

BoJo was UK PM that time and yes USA/NATO have "authority" over Kiev junta-its crystal clear.

Nope.

Reason was that Russia felt security threat from side of NATO and wanted to eliminate it.Russia have own national and security interests too/surprise?

Russia has nukes. They had no security concerns.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

No, I can't see it , where in those 2 links is a conclusive proof Tucker Carlson gets paid by Orban?

I said probably*. I gave my opinion, do you know what an opinion is?

I based my opinion on the fact that 1) Richard Carlson was paid to do lobbying work by the Orban government, and 2) The fact that Tucker can't quit gushing about Orban, and that didn't happen until papa Carlson got paid to lobby for Hungary. Maybe it's just a coincidence though and Tucker Carlson just has a soft spot for authoritarian blowhards.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

2020hindsights

sharp start 7.24am 37 comments as at 13.54 japanese time sure you may get lost so check below and reply/my 3rd attempt

2020hindsightsToday  12:35 pm JST

Eastman

We can all agree a peaceful end to Ukraine's long term civil war/tragedy is the first step towards their recovery!

Sure yes.Before that we must talk about reason for this conflict.Remove that reason,solve that problem first,than makes sense to start to talk about peace.

The reason is Putin's imperialism. So the solution looks like the removal of Putin?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Eastman

you still owe me my citation about removal of Putin.

The reason is Putin's imperialism. So the solution looks like the removal of Putin?

Oh, now I see what you were referring to. It was a suggestion. From me. But would probably be a good solution.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

2020hindsights

problem with Putin s removal solved above,check and reply.with my exact citation.

maidan was not peaceful at all.did you ever heard about snipers from Sakartvelo?or you believe there were none?

Yanukovich was removed against that time valid UA constitution.

Crimea became part of Russia after referendum since previous ones were ignored by Kiev for decades.

little green men or big green men?i am confused.did you go there and ask them-did Putin send you?just wondering

rest of your lines worthless to repeat facts again as you wont listen and learn.or better to say-respect someones other opinions.

now get back to me with my citation of Putin removal/my 4th attempt.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

2020hindsights

its interesting to see that there is no difference between my citation/you cant find here any and your suggestion...or maybe just a dream?

time to close this thread and take a break mate.or get some new RedBull so UA will prevail as someone is posting here everyday/irony off...

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Gang, not democratic to talk of 'eliminating' leaders from fellow democracies. Violence is NOT the solution to the Ukraine 10 year civil war or Mr. Putin. Core values matter!

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

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