Republicans grapple with post-Trump future

Welcome to political Siberia, GOP. You sold your collective souls to a carnival barker. He cost you the House, the Senate and the White House.

Cruz acknowledged Biden's victory on Wednesday, but he refused to describe it as legitimate when pressed.

Cruz and others in the Republican insurrectionist caucus will continue their faction's efforts to further weaken the republic. They will continue Trump's attacks on elections and voting.

Hopefully Lt. Gen. (ret) Honore's task force investigating Trump's failed - and deadly - assault on the capitol will look into the roles played by Cruz, Hawley, Jordan, Gaetz and other anti-democracy Republican politicians in inciting Trump's mobs.

Funny how after advocating the betrayal of American ideals and failing in the attempted violent overthrow of a democratically-elected government, Cruz et al. want to ignore their lies and whirlwind, and think "we should just move on" ...

Cruz would say that, wouldn't he? He's culpable too.

Deal with it.

And who invited Rafael Cruz to the inauguration? I saw him take one selfie with another guy sans masque. Apart from that, I don't think anybody wanted to be near him or speak to him. Reminds me of Princess and Mannequin attending McCain's funeral.

but noted that Reagan reclaimed the White House for Republicans just six years after President Richard Nixon was forced to resign in disgrace.

They obviously failed to learn their lesson. Let’s give them a much longer time out - OR - just abandon the Republican Party to (as Iron Mike would say) “Bolivion”........

It will be hard for the party to shake off the Tea Party/ evangelical movement that pushed Trump to President. But the electorate rejects that and it is unlikely that they will win with another candidate who adopts the same policies.

Either the Republicans burn the witch at the stake or be remembered in 2024 as all being members of the coven. Convict in the Senate and save the Party.

GdTokyo; Actually the GOP did BETTER in the House and Senate races than many people expected. Predictions were for them to lose substantial numbers of seats, but especially in the House they actually gained, what was it, 10 seats? A very rare and impressive showing when the man at the top of the ticket is losing. This tells me that Republican ideals are still valid.

The good news is that a new and in-tune crop of Republicans are waiting to move higher in the party ranks. People like Dan Crenshaw, Nikki Haley, Adam Kinziger, TIm Scott, Tony Gonzales will replace the dinosaurs. Let's face it, both parties have waaaaaaay too many dinosaurs in charge.

AttilathehungryToday  08:56 am JST

GdTokyo; Actually the GOP did BETTER in the House and Senate races than many people expected. Predictions were for them to lose substantial numbers of seats, but especially in the House they actually gained, what was it, 10 seats? A very rare and impressive showing when the man at the top of the ticket is losing.

Not impressive enough for them to win any majorities, though.

This tells me that Republican ideals are still valid.

Ideals are fine. Pity about the people.

This tells me that Republican ideals are still valid.

As long as there are greedy rich people around, the republican ideals will always be around too. The issue is, how well are these greedy rich people bamboozling the lower classes into voting for them and therefore for things that completely go against their own interests? They have a powerful propaganda arm to help them do so, but how long can they keep the scam up? Lately people have been realizing things like actually having health care is better than dying because you can't afford a doctor. Or paying more taxes than a billionnaire is not very fair. Or having a racist, stupid president sucks. So they're leaving the Republican party in droves.

Simon, you are right. No majorities. Yet substantial gains which were not foreseen by any major political pollster. Nate Silver thought the Democrats would gain seats, not lose them. Also a clear majority in the Senate. Didn't happen either. Again, this doesn't happen often, and is a huge shock considering how the media and so on were intent on demonizing the GOP.

Jsapc, I am curious about the "powerful propaganda arm" you think the GOP has. Care to elaborate?

Jsapc, I am curious about the "powerful propaganda arm" you think the GOP has. Care to elaborate?

Fox News is the most watched news/opinion/disinformation channel in the US.

Even "liberal" media is keen to have delusional right-wing guests in the name of 'balance'.

Until very recently, social media, like Youtube, Facebook, and Twitter were happy to allow disinformation to spread unchecked and unchallenged.

Despite all these advantages, the GOP lost Georgia. Thank goodness.

Nate Silver thought the Democrats

Nate Silver "thought" a lot of things. He's not God or in any position of political power or influence, so why are you basing your argument on him?

Jsapc, I am curious about the "powerful propaganda arm" you think the GOP has. Care to elaborate?

I don't know if you're familiar with a television channel called "Fox News"? They have the most watched news shows in America and have effectively been serving as the propaganda arm of the Republican party and conservative ideas in general. They are know to shamelessly lie, promote conspiracies, omit truths and basically fill the head of their viewers with right-wing crap, going more far-right as the years progress. They often get caught lying and have to pay a lot of money to sweep everything under the rug. Here's the latest example, it's a fascinating read and shows you how rotten that channel is:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/17/business/media/fox-news-seth-rich-settlement.html

Fox Settled a Lawsuit Over Its Lies. But It Insisted on One Unusual Condition.

Why did the network insist an agreement with the family of a murdered young man remain undisclosed until after the election?

Cruz spent weeks parroting Trump's baseless claims of election fraud

Actually, Ted is too savvy for that. He didn't directly claim there was fraud. He just sat back and let others make that claim, then he'd point to opinion polls showing people didn't trust the election. From there, he framed his responses as, "people have serious questions" and "we need to delay certification so we can satisfy the American people."

That way, fraud or no fraud, his rear was covered. He was just protecting our Democracy. No one could possible be against slowing things down, asking questions, and protecting our great country, could they?

Cruz said Trump would remain a significant part of the political conversation, but that the Republican Party should move away from divisive “language and tone and rhetoric” that alienated suburban voters, particularly women, in recent elections.

Nah. With Trump gone that will be the easy part. Suburban women hated the pig.

But let's be real, Ted. You will not be getting away from divisive tone and rhetoric since it's all the GOP has. Your party no longer runs on platforms or positions. Your party runs on fear.

In Georgia the platform was "Don't vote for the communists". There was a prediction that the stock market would collapse (it didn't, it broke records). Notice how so many Trump fans suddenly, in unison, started to use the word "marxist" on this message board? Memo received. Ted himself told Texans that transgenders would suddenly start attacking little girls in bathrooms. And of course, completely open borders allowing anyone to stroll in.

In order for the GOP to agree and compromise with Democrats they have to convince their base that compromising with America hating communists is sometimes necessary. Good luck with that. Your next primary opponent is watching.

The pained face of the man at the window of the limo is a classic portrait of "Woulda Shoulda Coulda". The Dems should just keep giving the Retrumplicans more rope for their long drop down so they can twist in the whirlwind they have reaped by allowing a man who has always been " a party of one" to lead them over the cliff where Cruz, Hawley et al. are now hanging by their fingertips.

Here is the situation for bthe GOP.

Right after Trump became the Republican party nominee for 2016 they lost 5% of their members dropping to just 25% of the electorate.

The Dems remained steady at 31%, and independents went up to 41%.

Many of those that left the GOP were former party leader and the more educated some forming the Lincoln project.

These people for now will not rejoin the GOP until all vestiges of Trumpism has been eradicated from the party,

For now Trump has a firm grip on 75% of the registered Republicans or roughly 19% of the electorate.

The GOP will either dump all the Trumpism risk losing a portion of those Trumpist in favour of the return of those that left and hope to attract more independents or more will leave the party groups like the Lincoln project with plenty of financial backing will form a new party pulling in moderate, businesses, etc... Leaving the GOP rump of hardcore Trumpist.

Time will tell but those most wanting GOP Representative and Senators that supported the false claims on the election are not Dems, but former Republicans many now leading the Lincoln project and they say they will not return to the GOP until these people are removed and out of the Republican party that includes people like Ted Cruz. So it is going to be a fun few year in the GOP.

Yep, Fox news leans right. No question. However, compared to the left leaning cabal of ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, plus every major newspaper (LA Times, WaPo, New York Times), plus big tech.... a drop in the bucket. The media consortium is nearly total.

Trump issued an ominous vow as he left the White House for the last time as president: “We will be back in some form."

He is starting the 'Patriot Party'!

As Samuel Johnson said 'Patriotism is the last refuge of the Scoundrel'

People will always be divided by care and empathy vs. money, self interest and business as priority. It's a never ending difference, so whether there's a GOP or not, a conservative party will exist, in some form.

How dumb were the QaNon followers? They thought Trump's military would take over the White House on inauguration day. It ended in a thud for them, as they anxiously believed to the end, Trump would still be the president and were upset with the hoax. Gullible, or what? That's just one faction of the dumb and dangerous who have branched off the GOP.

What conservatives don't get is how their poor standard of humanity leads to Trump and they are complicit in the problems of domestic terror and insurrection of the Capitol. Cruz, McConnell, Nikki Haley and all staunch Republicans are responsible.

The worry is, the GOP doesn't learn anything and usage of lies is the only way to get things done for their constituents. They lie, aligned with their lying media, and don't have the conscience to not do so, and then the constituents follow their lead and lie, as well, and it goes round and round.

It's a sorry state where the tail wags the dogs of politics, and it's true for Democrats as well. The difference is Bobby Kennedy was a man of honor and empathy, and Democrats still follow his words of truth, while Republicans still follow the ways of Nixon, a liar who believed he was being patriotic, but actually was a criminal as president.

The GOP needs to expel anyone who was a Trump follower, election result denier, or otherwise caused harm by casting doubt about following the Constitution that every 5th grader knows.

GOP can't take liars anymore. The Trump fanatics need to start their own party, if that's their desire. What is the GOP doing to prevent another Trump-like liar taking over?

I look forward to being unhappy about the Democrat's policies, not the GOP trying to destroy the truth and facts.

Yep, Fox news leans right.

"Leans right"? Tucker Carlson promotes conspiracy theories and dog-whistle racism, and employed an overt white nationalist for years. Sean Hannity and Jeanine Pierro were devout Trump servants, slavishly lying and pushing propaganda for a terrible President even as Americans died in their hundreds of thousands (though Hannity finally seems to have woken up to the danger of Covid — now that Biden is President).

However, compared to the left leaning cabal of ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, plus every major newspaper (LA Times, WaPo, New York Times), plus big tech.... a drop in the bucket. The media consortium is nearly total.

Didn't want to address the point that "left leaning" (they're liberal, not left) channels still invite far-right figures on to push lies? Even the Washington Post admitted that it and other media bore responsibility for the rise of fascism in the US by treated racists and white supremacists as quirky outliers to bemusedly debate, rather than a genuine danger to the lives of millions of Americans and, eventually, democracy itself.

"Big tech" has coddled the far-right for years. Twitter refused to ban white supremacists on the basis that the rules it would create would mean they'd have to ban GOP politicians. It was only when their (in)actions had consequences on Jan 6 that they realised that, hm, maybe they should do more than nothing.

What is of more interest is the trump future, post presidency.

A large number of his hotels and resorts should declare bankruptcy in the next 1 year, banks have already refused to lend and creditors will come calling.

The danger of him defecting to Russia and selling state secrets is very real.

Put him under surveillance and take away his passports!!!!

As was widely predicted, the Republican Party's Dance with the Devil in 2016 has ended in utter disaster...

Lindsey Graham, in his days before his spine was removed, said it clearly; "If we nominate Donald Trump our party will be destroyed"....

Bingo Lindsey - you nailed that one...

What happens to the Repubs going forward is anyone's guess;

The party formally rejects Trump and causes a inter civil war that will likely cause cause a split, with the Trump supporters storming off to form their own party...with both being minority parties for decades...

The party tolerates Trump and all his impeachment, insurrection, botched COVID baggage....and remains a minority party for decades...

Which will occur? I haven't the faintest idea - but as Team Blue I'll just smile and try to suppress the urge to say 'told you so"...

AttilathehungryToday  10:17 am JST

Yep, Fox news leans right. No question. However, compared to the left leaning cabal of ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, plus every major newspaper (LA Times, WaPo, New York Times), plus big tech.... a drop in the bucket. The media consortium is nearly total.

Election results appears to indicate that the majority of prospective viewers and readers are left-leaning too so it's maybe just a matter of giving the public what it wants.

Simon, the US is basically 50/50. Perhaps a few percent either way each election cycle. But the media is far from it. Can you think of anyone at CNN who may have voted for Trump? The media culture in the US is at odds with the general public. Just look at some of the coverage and how ... different... it is from the Trump inauguration. Hell, the CNN political director was describing the lights in Washington like "extensions of Joe Biden's arms embracing America."

Hey GOP:

Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there’s still time to change the road you’re on.

The media consortium is nearly total.

Except Fox News is still, proudly, the most watched and influential news network (always playing the victim and posing as "the little guy" against big news... When they absolutely ARE big news). And the biggest difference with your so-called "left leaning cabal" is that, as I stated, Fox News lies. Shamelessly. The liberal media does make mistakes, but it seldom knowlingly fabricates facts. Heck, there's a whole, long wikipedia page dedicated to Fox News lying:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_controversies

JSPAC among cable channels yes Fox is the biggest. But the big 3 networks all are far larger and more influential. And all have deep ties to the Democratic Party.

Nothing will change. Same oil, arms, nuke, hawks.

But the big 3 networks all are far larger and more influential.

Unfortunately, they are not. They do have more viewers, but Fox News has much more clout on the actual political system and on elections. If Fox News was a minor outlet, Trump would have never been elected, pure and simple.

And all have deep ties to the Democratic Party.

No, they don't. They only have "deep ties" to decency and sanity.

You should watch less Fox News.

@Attilathehungry

Fox has admitted in court that it is now a news network.

It made it clear during a defamation lawsuit that it is not news but opinion and no one with any level of reasoning should take the "Opinions" as any sort of facts or news.

They have gone near 100% opinion now by removing the 7:00 news one of the few still left and where Shep Smith was once anchor but left because he could no longer actually do the news but was being pushed to do fake opinion.

So now the 7:00 PM new is replaced by another opinion show.

So not news like ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, BBC, etc... Actual news

Here is a sad fact about the USA election system and the GOP way of suppression of votes and Jerry rigging things.

Since 1992 the Dems got more votes in every election with the one exception of 2004.

And despite this fact Republicans have been able to get elected and if we got down to the state level it is ever a bigger problem.

So when Qrumpers point out how angry a certain portion of Americans are at the way things are in the USA it is because despite all their efforts the USA is finally and inevitably moving to a real Democracy where each vote counts and not just those with the right skin colour.

AttilathehungryToday  11:08 am JST

Simon, the US is basically 50/50. Perhaps a few percent either way each election cycle.

Usually in the Democratic direction these days though.

Hell, the CNN political director was describing the lights in Washington like "extensions of Joe Biden's arms embracing America."

I think they would have stuck a different tone if they hadn't thought that was what most people wanted to hear.

Trump can take the flag off his lapel, and put the dollar sign back on, now. Or the Russian Ruble, his true source of laundered survival.

Antique, I am not disagreeing with that. Fox is majority "opinion journalism" (what an oxymoron), same as CNN and MSNBC. Lineups of partisans masquerading as journalists. Don't watch it much though, it isn't available here. My cable company just does CNN International and BBC.

As for the US electoral system, it is designed to encourage wide support rather than tyranny of cities and large states. But you knew that. Worrying about the popular vote is like worrying about how many hits your team gets in a baseball game. Interesting but ultimately irrelevant. Both parties know that, but the GOP is simply better at retail politics. It is one of the reasons Hillary lost in 2016 to a mouthy New York real estate guy.

I am hoping for a cleanout of the GOP and new people coming to the forefront. Trump had his time, did some good things, but really lost the plot at the end. My hope is that he goes to Mar A Lago (sp), plays golf, and shuts the hell up.

Hell, the CNN political director was describing the lights in Washington like "extensions of Joe Biden's arms embracing America."

That’s pathetic coming from a news outlet. Cheesy as well.

To be fair, Trump did post trash memes of him as Maverick in Top Gun blowing up a CNN jet and punching them in the face outside the ring in a pro-wresting event.

It took two to tango here. Neither are worth taking seriously.

Worrying about the popular vote is like worrying about how many hits your team gets in a baseball game. 

What!!!!????

It is more like how many runners make safely to home plate only to be told that despite having more runs the umpires are giving the win to the losing team.

How anyone can downplay something as simple as the majority vote should win and rule by the minority is not acceptable is beyond logic.

Well it doesn't surprise me, I mean most Trump supporters and many in the GOP would like a return to the good old days where White ruled over non white and only the white had the right to vote.

Antique, it isn't a race thing. It is a political thing. I can't think of many countries that are simply majority vote rule. UK isn't. Canada isn't. Australia isn't. Japan isn't. Any country with a parliamentary system isn't. Not sure why you bring race into it though, unless you think ALL countries that use a legislature to select their heads of state are racist.

Take Canada, for example. PM Trudeau's party only got 33% of the popular vote, yet form the government in Parliament. The Conservatives got just over 34%, yet less seats. Other parties the same. So fully 2/3 of Canadians voted for someone other than the Prime Minister. Such is life in a parliamentary system, which is similar to the American Electoral College in that it encourages parties to try and represent the entire country instead of concentrating on a few voter-rich areas.

Such is life in a parliamentary system, which is similar to the American Electoral College in that it encourages parties to try and represent the entire country instead of concentrating on a few voter-rich areas.

In the first place, this is untrue. This is why campaigns centre around swing states, and the long running joke that every four years candidates run to be President of Ohio. By "voter rich areas", you mean, "places with people".

And secondly, are you saying that you believe that democracy works best when people who get the least votes get the most power? The UK, Canada and Japan also have shabby democratic systems.

Trump had his time, did some good things, 

Can you be specific? His covid-19 solution was a joke with his idea of injecting Mr. Clean.

 Fox news leans right

Wrong. Fox called Arizona way way before CNN which (1) made Trump mad and (2) might have caused Trump to lose the election nsince it discouraged Trump voters from voting.

@Attilathehungry

Please don't try that,

A PM in places like Canada do not have half the power a US president has, lest be real here.

By a simple vote any PM is out just as fast as he got in.

Then we have a far more representative government in Canada where there are multiple parties giving far more choices.

We have a single federal election system and not one each province can Jerry rig to suit the ruling elite one system one country on the federal level.

So please again do not try and distort facts or compare an apple and a rock.

@Attilathehungry

And oh yes it is a race thing despite the GOP and white supporters saying it is not.

A simple look at where the GOP and Qrumpers were trying to have the votes disqualified shows that clearly.

All black majority or heavily back Areas. That is about race clear and simple.

Let's face it, Trump's detractors are the kind of spiteful, vindictive people who like to play the man, not the ball.

Hey remember when Barack Obama was elected and most of the GOP claimed he was born in Kenya and was secretly a muslim? Yeah that was a good show of unity, wasn't it?

If one fights the urge to get distracted by his soundbites, Trump put in a respectable shift as president, and despite the partisan FUD he never did start any wars.

No, he REALLY didn't. His trask record is simply dreadful. He made the deficit explode, lost millions of jobs, increased poverty and inequality, incited a white supremacist riot on the Capitol... The list goes on, and on, and on... Even if you take ous the soudbites, he was quite simply the worst president in American history. Worse than Bush Jr. and Andrew Johnson.

I think once the Trump family and its several business entities are deep into their many upcoming legal challenges they will fade from importance politically. The facts that will come out in the course of the several court cases will make them radioactive.

Also, in the fullness of time the current dismay of the Qanon crowd might lead to many of these people to realize they have been played by pros, perhaps even foreign pros, and this will lead to some introspection on their part and circumspection in the future. You know the old saying; make a fool of me once, shame on you. Make a fool of me twice, shame on me.

Review the effects of Proposition 187 and former Governor Pete Wilson on the viability of the Republican Party in California. Mr. Trump and his many xenophobic, anti-immigrant policies, government shutdowns and budget blackmail may have accomplished on a national scale what Pete Wilson accomplished in California. It didn't happen overnight but the Republicans were stubborn and refused to change in alignment with the voting public. Now Republicans hold no statewide offices and Democrats have solid super-majorities in both houses of the State Legislature. The state also has a $15 billion rainy day fund from consecutive budget surpluses going back to 2008 and this year experienced record tax receipts, much of which will go to covid relief and into that rainy day fund. State GDP exceeds $3 trillion, the worlds fifth largest economy.

Republicans grapple with post-Trump future

The "Rinos" have miserably failed a populist president. If anything positive comes out of this swamp victory, it is that many people have seen now that there is really no substantial difference between the neocon and neolib establishment parties.

I hope very much that Trump starts a new, clean populist party and puts the "republican" establishment in the dustbin.

Anyone else notice that the swamp is more drained today than it's been in four years?

Biden is Making America Great Again.

Then we have a far more representative government in Canada where there are multiple parties giving far more choices.

There is good and bad in that. The deals necessary to achieve a legislative majority can be detrimental to good policy, and governments can be highly unstable when coalition partners use blackmail tactics threatening to leave the coalition and bring the government down to achieve their legislative goals. The public doesn't chose their national leader. No one in UK voted for Boris Johnson to be PM. He represents one district as a Member of Parliament. His party chose him to be PM, not the public. Is that more representative than the US Presidential system? No. Terms of an administration are hardly fixed when a vote of confidence, or the whim of a prime minister calling a snap election can cause a national election on very short notice. Stability suffers under such circumstances and necessary policy doesn't happen when politicians are fighting for power or there is an election cycle. Problems get shoved aside until a new parliamentary majority can be cobble together, for however long it lasts. Canada has not been as bad as Italy, Belgium or Israel in this regard but a good argument could be made against the parliamentary system on those grounds. I certainly do not ever wish to live in such a country.

I hope very much that Trump starts a new, clean populist party and puts the "republican" establishment in the dustbin.

Yeah, his reign turned out really well for America. Please, by all means, put him in power for another four more.

WilliBToday  01:37 pm JST

... there is really no substantial difference between the neocon and neolib establishment parties.

Makes sense to me. I don't think much can be achieved if you have radically divergent parties and a political system that means compromise is necessary between whoever controls the executive and the two houses of the legislature to get anything done.

I hope very much that Trump starts a new, clean populist party and puts the "republican" establishment in the dustbin.

So a lot of Democrats, probably. Such a schism would only benefit them.