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'Russians, go home!' Pro-Ukraine protests sweep Europe

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My heart goes out to the people of Ukraine and many of the young Russian soldiers who probably don't or forced to be in a war they don't want to be part of. Unless one Putin's top guy's takes him out, he is untouchable as a former KGB it would be really tough to get at him. All we can do is pray that he is taken out, Russian people can get some kind of freedom and Ukraine can get their lives restored.

20 ( +22 / -2 )

Putin clearly needs to be taken out!

let’s hope Russians aren’t left in the dark and understand the full extent of this horrible dictator! Only hope is someone close to him takes him out and becomes a hero. He’s on the same level as Hitler or my ex wife. Lol

10 ( +18 / -8 )

its actually not. what do all you mean by "take out"?

Is it the responsibility of any other country to "take out" their leaders when they do something the people dont support? like for example Covid lockdowns or buying oil from Russia?

Just "take them out" or else you are ok with the people suffering if they dont/cant?

-17 ( +7 / -24 )

Agreed with Blacklabel again here, there are a lot of Russians taking undue hate over this. Not only Russian nationals, but people running Russian markets overseas that are getting targeted by hate crimes as much as ethnic Chinese targeted because of corona. I've even seen people celebrating the harm that this is causing the average Russian citizen, it is insane.

-5 ( +12 / -17 )

Gatherings were also reported in Britain, Germany, Bulgaria and Montenegro on Sunday.

I recall being in Bali in 1989 shortly after the Berlin Wall came down, and being at a pub in Ubud with folks from all over Europe and around the world celebrating in hopes that the Iron Curtain had finally come down and people from across Europe would be able to meet with friends and family that had been locked behind the iron curtains for a long time. I wonder how long it will be before people across Europe will once again be able to travel freely. Anti-democracy rightists have your travels been severely limited since NATO and the EU have had greater border control over Europe. And if your only response is yes, because of Covid restrictions, I'll say you're comparing an apple to a mortar shell. Health restrictions and Iron Curtains manned by Stasi machine gunners (recall your Putin was a Stasi agent) are not the same, to me, and probably most reasonable people.I wonder how many Russians today would flee Russia if they had the means. There are many Russians living in North America these days. And many living in former SSRs, I have to think many living near Russia are scared thinking Putin's USSR2 will do another Ukraine wherever they settled.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

Take him out!

someone please!!

12 ( +17 / -5 )

Can we please not advocate for assassinations of political leaders? There's a lot of reasons that it is illegal.

-11 ( +7 / -18 )

Autocracy vs. Democracy

The people in the photo above favor democracy and are all for peace and freedom, while the people dropping the bombs and causing thousands of needless deaths favor autocracy.

Which side are you on?

10 ( +15 / -5 )

As a high school kid I watched how domestic public sentiment and protests ended our involvement in Vietnam. So I know this is not futile. But it takes time. Which means that the Ukranian resistance to the invasion has to be supported over a long period. And this is while Russia will only increase their assault with more and more civilian fatalities.

Honestly, I think NATO is making a mistake by not enforcing a no-fly zone. They don't want to because that means direct engagement against Russian forces. Putin knows NATO is scared and will not do anything, which simply enboldens him.

NATO entering Ukranian airspace now is the only thing that will let Putin know that he is not going to attain his goals and might change his mind. Putin is playing hardball, NATO is playing softball. Failure to stand up to Putin now will result in the fall of Ukraine followed by an overflow of hostilities into other countries. No I'm not a wamonger, I want to prevent a greater and longer war on a larger scale.

2 ( +13 / -11 )

Can we please not advocate for assassinations of political leaders?

Wouldn't it be nice to think Russia was a democracy and voters could just vote him out? And that if Putin was voted out he wouldn't do a Lukashenko or do what what's the name of the golfer from Florida did? And wouldn't it also be nice if Putin would just walk away and take his oligarchs and generals with him. But i imagine each of them knows they might have to give up some of their palaces and yachts if they did so, but I think each probably has embezzled sufficient funds to last a couple lifetimes in banks around the world.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Fox News

Thanks, but Fox "News" has done enough damage already. If all one watches is Fox News, they may think that the Russian Army was going to drive all the way to Portugal.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Can we please not advocate for assassinations of political leaders? There's a lot of reasons that it is illegal.

Perhaps this comment would be better directed to Putin, who is actively sending his goons to murder Zelenskiy rather than just idly talking about assassinating a political leader like people on here are.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Can we please not advocate for assassinations of political leaders? There's a lot of reasons that it is illegal.

To invade a country, completely destroy it and killing innocent men, women and children...THAT is illegal!

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Pretty soon, the Russians won't have a home to go to. Karma!

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Unless you’re all in favor of cold blooded murder, how can anybody be in n support of all of the needless death and suffering being inflicted upon Ukraine by Russia?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Moscow's assault on its pro-Western neighbor on February 24 has sparked global condemnation and an outpouring of solidarity with Kyiv as the West inflicts harsh sanctions, some directed against Russian President Vladimir Putin himself.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

A police spokeswoman said 1,700 people were arrested in Moscow after around 2,500 took part in an "unsanctioned protest", while 750 were detained at a smaller rally of around 1,500 people in the second-largest city, Saint Petersburg, Russian news agencies reported.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

So many people buying into the simplistic narrative that Putin attacked the Ukraine out of the blue without any reason.

Why do so few people do some background reading and find out that this problem has been developing for a time? This is hardly a secret.

Here is Noam Chomsky from 2015 explaining exactly what we see now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBFcQdwEFy8

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

stormcrow

Unless you’re all in favor of cold blooded murder, how can anybody be in n support of all of the needless death and suffering being inflicted upon Ukraine by Russia?

I have not seen anybody in favour of "needless death and suffering". The issue is who is to blame. As Chomsky points out, no russian leader could accept a NATO expansion into Ukraine, just as no American president could accept Soviet missiles in Cuba.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

A police spokeswoman said 1,700 people were arrested in Moscow after around 2,500 took part in an "unsanctioned protest", while 750 were detained at a smaller rally of around 1,500 people in the second-largest city, Saint Petersburg, Russian news agencies reported.

And the anti-democracy crowds were posting that it's New Zealand and Canada that are fascist. But I think they were just name calling knowing fascist is a bad thing to call anyone. Bet most of those posters might have been unaware of the English dictionary meaning of the word. I also know the global alt right have their own lexicon with their own meanings that differ from what I have learned is standard English, but then many English speakers I've met living overseas and traveling outside the US say that because I do not speak British English I do not speak English.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The reality is states do not remain a sovereign state just because they have been an independent state. You have to be able to defend or you disappear.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Given the circumstances - US (still napping), EU deluded with unsustainable self interest and rising power China throwing a lifeline to Putin, I'd say ordinary people's voice is the best chance we have of saving Ukraine AND Russia from this reckless dictator.

I think it's time Ukraine start a 'save Russia - go home' campaign to convince Russian soldiers to turn around and go back.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

no russian leader could accept a NATO expansion into Ukraine,

Did you see any Nato expansion into Ukraine?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

In Fall 2015, Professor Mearsheimer gave a talk on the topic Ukraine at University of Chicago in which he predicted the events of the past month.

"I actually think that what's going on here is that the West is leading Ukraine down the Primrose Path, and the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked," he said. "And I believe that the policy I'm advocating, which is neutralizing Ukraine and then building it up economically, and then getting it out of the competition between Russia on one side and NATO on the other side, is the best thing that could happen to the Ukrainians."

"What we're doing is encouraging the Ukrainians to play tough with the Russians. We're encouraging the Ukrainians to think that they will ultimately become part of the West, because we will ultimately defeat Putin, and we will ultimately get our way. Time is on our side, and of course, the Ukrainians are playing along with this. The Ukrainians are almost completely unwilling to compromise with the Russians, and instead want to pursue a hardline policy."

"If they do that, the end result is that their country is going to be wrecked. And what we're doing is in effect encouraging that outcome. I think it would make much more sense for us to work to create a neutral Ukraine," he said.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Agreed with Blacklabel again here, there are a lot of Russians taking undue hate over this.

Eric Swalwell suggested that the U.S. kick out Russian students studying in the U.S. I guess blaming an entire nationality for the acts of their leader is the thing now. Reminds me of putting Japanese Americans in internment camps.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

A police spokeswoman said 1,700 people were arrested in Moscow after around 2,500 took part in an "unsanctioned protest", while 750 were detained at a smaller rally of around 1,500 people in the second-largest city, Saint Petersburg, Russian news agencies reported."

Many Russian cities are witnessing protests against the war since the start. Distinction should be made between Russian people and its leadership. Powerful video of a captured Russian Lieutenant Colonel speech about the troops not wanting to fight in Ukraine today.

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/i-feel-shame-captured-russian-soldiers-powerful-denunciation-of-ukraine-invasion/news-story/4fea7b000dc4f44a0f7456c1fc4adf6a

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I think there are some who feel Russia have had good reason to go into Ukraine for its own interests. These entities need to understand that theory and diplomacy are fine, but when you actually enter another country and start killing and destruction; it's no longer on the table to come back to negotiate. It's over; you need to be taken out.

Not wanting NATO on your doorstep may have been a valid issue, not sure of the danger or that being, it would have led to war because NATO is by nature a defensive force. It leads only the conclusion that states that take an absolutists stance to their policy, tend to end up being insane, and there is no negotiating with the truly insane. And ultimately it only ends in catastrophy if it is not identified, and put to an end within its generation. if not it will lead to what we see here today and are experiencing.

It appears we have been very naive, and very greedy in this generation and in generations past. Let us hope the future children's children will be more wise and act accordingly.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Eric Swalwell suggested that the U.S. kick out Russian students studying in the U.S

That is a complete stupid suggestion from Eric Swalwell.

There are many nice and peaceful Russian living in this world.

You should not punish these nice Russians because of their mass murderer leader in their home country.

But, if they support Putin's murder attack on Ukraine and killing innocent men, women and children...then Yes, I completely would agree with Eric Swalwell!

In my opinion, all Putin and this war supporters, who are living not in Russia and who admires Putin and are saying how clever this murder is, ...all of these supporters must be kicked out of the country they are living and send back immediately to Russia.

Then in Russia, they can kiss Putin's ass.

But I bet, that all these supporters enjoy sitting on their sofa in a safe country, with all its advantages, and watching on their 72" TV Screen the war and cheer up Putin.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

"And I believe that the policy I'm advocating, which is neutralizing Ukraine and then building it up economically, and then getting it out of the competition between Russia on one side and NATO on the other side, is the best thing that could happen to the Ukrainians."

How about the Ukrainians decide the path they want to take?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

 Putin and this war supporters, who are living not in Russia and who admires Putin and are saying how clever this murder is, 

One US politician just called Putin 'savvy', but apparently that politician and others in his party have close relations with Putin. Who all knows why the Florida golfer took so many US government files, including several marked 'classified' to one of his golf courses,

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@quercetum

Mearsheimer....Pozner

earn their stripes touting Putin's narratives. No body even know whether Putin has got something on them, certainly their analysis is a broken record of Putin's own self preservation narrative. It's not even surprising that they get air time, sprout predictions only for Putin to fulfil them then they all go into a dark room and pat each other on the back.

There's no justification EVER for reckless, murderous, violent actions on innocent people, and looks like in this case Children. Ask Mearsheimer, Pozner how they justify what Putin has done instead.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

So many people buying into the simplistic narrative that Putin attacked the Ukraine out of the blue without any reason.

And a small number of people like yourself buying into the much more simplistic narrative that Ukraine deserved to be invaded.

The issue is who is to blame.

Let me guess: anybody but the guy who launched the invasion. Am I right?

As Chomsky points out, no russian leader could accept a NATO expansion into Ukraine, just as no American president could accept Soviet missiles in Cuba.

Relying on anarchist linguists to form your opinions now?

I don't recall the US actually invading Cuba in order to get rid of those missiles. Nor do I recall Ukraine actually joining NATO or doing anything which posed a risk to Russian security akin to the USSR putting nuclear weapons in Cuba.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Thousands of Russians defied the authorities and around 2,500 were detained on Sunday for protesting against the war.

We stand with the Russian people against Putin!!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

China throwing a lifeline to Putin

China is not a charitable organisation, it is not in the business of throwing lifelines.

If Putin accepts 'help' from China, he will find out later (if he survives, hopefully he won't) that what he thought was a lifeline is actually a garrotte around his neck.

Can we please not advocate for assassinations of political leaders? 

If assassination turns out to be the only way, so be it. Personally I would rather see Mad Vlad deposed by right-minded Russians, manacled, publicly tried for his war crimes and thrown in a cell where hopefully he will die a long slow lingering and painful but natural death. Word is that he has some terminal disease that has turned his eyes into pin points and bloated his cheeks.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

this war have to be stopped.

both sides need to take a seat and discuss matter asap.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

@quercetum

The reality is states do not remain a sovereign state just because they have been an independent state. You have to be able to defend or you disappear.

Kim jong Un has a job for you, Iran too. China would grant you card carrying member status of the CCP immediately, Putin would likely make you the new foreign minister.

So let's all get WMDs so we can defend ourselves.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

quercetum

In Fall 2015, Professor Mearsheimer gave a talk on the topic Ukraine at University of Chicago in which he predicted the events of the past month.

He is not the only one. Pretty much all Russia experts have been saying that NATO expansion into Georgia or the Ukraine is an essential threat to the existance of the Russian state and could not be tolerated by any Russian government.

Simply blaming Putin for a predicted response is simplistic.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

cleo

China is not a charitable organisation, it is not in the business of throwing lifelines.

If Putin accepts 'help' from China, he will find out later (if he survives, hopefully he won't) that what he thought was a lifeline is actually a garrotte around his neck.

That is very much true. The CCP does what is good for the CCP. That said, Putin will surely consider selling more gas to the CCP and decreasing supply to Europe. Lets see how the Europeans do with stratospheric prices for heating and food.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Quote

People of Ukraine, we won't desert you! Democracy, freedom, peace," read one placard.

What are you going to do then??? People love going out and demonstrating. It's the easy way to actually avoid doing anything about it.

European nations aren't banning individuals from going to Ukraine to help defend it so why don't these people actually do something rather than making placards and demonstrating, in the peace and safety of their own countries. As James brown said , they people as ' talkin' loud, saying nothing.'

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

rainyday

And a small number of people like yourself buying into the much more simplistic narrative that Ukraine deserved to be invaded.

Nobody is talking about "deserved". The issue is superpower interest and real life politics, not morality. Grenada and Cuba did not "deserve" to be invaded and blockaded by the US either. Yet we tend to understand the big picture. Where is that understanding now?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

There's no justification EVER for reckless, murderous, violent actions on innocent people, and looks like in this case Children. 

He's not justifying murder. He is pointing out the liberal delusions that provoked Putin: the strategy to move Ukraine out of Russia's orbit and integrate it into the West.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

rainyday

I don't recall the US actually invading Cuba in order to get rid of those missiles. Nor do I recall Ukraine actually joining NATO or doing anything which posed a risk to Russian security akin to the USSR putting nuclear weapons in Cuba.

The US edged very close to nuclear war then. And Zelenski not only voted to join Nato, but actually went to UN and pondered about getting nuclear arms. Your memory is bit selective.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Nobody is talking about "deserved". The issue is superpower interest and real life politics, not morality. 

Oh I see. Yes, if you don't care about morality then I can see why you would be very keen to support a decision to do something that results in thousands of innocent people dead and millions more turned into refugees.

What you are describing fits the definition of psychopathic behavior BTW.

Grenada and Cuba did not "deserve" to be invaded and blockaded by the US either. 

True, they probably didn't. Not sure what your point is.

Yet we tend to understand the big picture. 

Which is might makes right? Deutschland uber alles or whatever its Russian equivalent is?

I understand how that big picture works out too well, which is why I think Putin must be stopped.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The US edged very close to nuclear war then.

Yeah, I'm not here to defend everything the US did 60 years ago, I'm here to talk about what Russia is doing today.

And Zelenski not only voted to join Nato,

OMG! So? Zelenskiy doesn't get to decide if Ukraine joins NATO, NATO does. And it would seem he was fairly wise to want to join NATO given the obvious threat that Russia posed to Ukraine.

but actually went to UN and pondered about getting nuclear arms. Your memory is bit selective.

Uh yeah, its amazing what Russian troops invading your country will cause you to ponder.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Can we please not advocate for assassinations of political leaders? There's a lot of reasons that it is illegal.

It depends on what kind of "leader" they are, and how they are treating their own country. Tyrants and dictators always have their own native people willing to remove them from the world. Hitler for one. Mussolini didn't have a "pleasant" death either, and neither did Saddam.

People who act like "rulers" instead of "leaders" usually are not well received by their own country's citizens.

As to whether assassination is considered, depends on how evil, corrupt, and unjust the actions such a "leader" does. Nobody wants to murder a leader that takes care of their citizens and makes the country prosperous.

Putin's regime has a well known act of making political opponents die or disappear in very strange ways. All for his own gain of power....

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@quercetum

He's not justifying murder.

But he has to. He/they are making out that Putin's actions are somehow caused by 'liberals' failure. This is ALL Putin, and if they justify Putin's narrative they have to justify the murder.

They would know Putin 'could' be full of lies, by their own admission they've both had access to Putin on a personal level. But they chose to go down a biased path. IMHO, if they can't justify the reckless violent murder of innocent children, they're as deluded as these Russian soldiers (except these Russian soldiers didn't have direct access to Putin).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD_4Y2TQotA

4 ( +4 / -0 )

rainyday

Which is might makes right? Deutschland uber alles or whatever its Russian equivalent is?

I understand how that big picture works out too well, which is why I think Putin must be stopped.

It is not about Putin. No US president could accept nuclear missiles in Mexico, and no Russian president can accept NATO arms right on its nose in Ukraine. Or in Georgia, cutting off Armenia. NATO tried that too and failed. Making this a personal issue about Putin means completely misreading the situation. And that is not just me saying that; this has been warned about since the Maida coup in 2014.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Lots of innocent Russians are being targeted for just being Russians globally! Shouldn’t the Russian Government officials and the Russian military bear full responsibility?

Its just the same as The US arresting and putting millions of innocent Japanese in camps during the war instead of just targeting the Japanese imperial army! Or China putting innocent Muslim’s in concentration camps all on the disguise of removing terrorist elements! Or even when more than 200,000 innocent people in Iraq ( civilians ) were killed by the unnecessary and completely unjustified war that The US did during their invasion falsely claiming Iraq had WMD’s ( not even a single WMD were in Iraq )! And yet, The US and it’s cronies did not face any consequences to date for that!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

It is not about Putin.

Really? Who is in charge over there giving orders to invade other countries then? Larry the Cable Guy?

No US president could accept nuclear missiles in Mexico, and no Russian president can accept NATO arms right on its nose in Ukraine. 

Well, lets break that apart because you've got a lot of BS assumptions built into that argument.

First, nobody was talking about positioning nuclear missiles in Ukraine nor was that ever likely to occur.

Second, Ukraine wanting to join NATO and Ukraine actually joining NATO are two very different things. So long as Putin held onto parts of Ukraine, which he had since 2014, he was effectively exercising a veto power over Ukraine's NATO membership without needing to invade the whole country. So Russia not wanting Ukraine in NATO doesn't make sense as a justification for this invasion itself.

Third, lets say Mexico was thinking of entering into a military alliance with Russia (not actually entering such an alliance, just expressing an interest in it). Would that justify the US in invading Mexico, just to prevent Mexico from hypothetically entering such a treaty relationship years in the future? I don't think so.

Making this a personal issue about Putin means completely misreading the situation. 

No, I am not misreading the situation, its not hard to understand the realpolitik behind it. Even interpreting it that way though, it still doesn't provide Putin with any justification for this that anyone in their right mind would accept. The only way it makes sense is if you read what Putin has to say about Ukraine as a whole and not just focus on the NATO related stuff. He thinks Ukraine should be part of Russia. This would be the case regardless of what NATO does, its based on his ideological ultra Russian nationalist/ Russian orthodox worldview and not on BS geo-strategic concerns about Ukraine hosting US forces or whatever. If you buy into that then what he is doing makes actual sense. I don't know any sane person outside of Russia who does.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Rainyday

Uh yeah, its amazing what Russian troops invading your country will cause you to ponder.

You are reversing the timeline. Zelensky made those mind-boggling remarks about going nuclear BEFORE the Russian invasion, and they surely played a part in the decision.

I

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

You are reversing the timeline. Zelensky made those mind-boggling remarks about going nuclear BEFORE the Russian invasion, and they surely played a part in the decision.

Yeah at a time when his country was completely surrounded by an invasion force that would actually attack his country a few days later.

Give me a break.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Third, lets say Mexico was thinking of entering into a military alliance with Russia (not actually entering such an alliance, just expressing an interest in it). Would that justify the US in invading Mexico, just to prevent Mexico from hypothetically entering such a treaty relationship years in the future? I don't think so.

Sort of like beating up your neighbor's kid because he is thinking about taking judo lessons.

The alt-right are doing a great job of debasing themselves here.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Lots of innocent Russians are being targeted for just being Russians globally! Shouldn’t the Russian Government officials and the Russian military bear full responsibility

Shouldn't the people who target those innocent Russians (and those of Russian heritage) around the globe be responsible for being hostile? If anything, be hostile and judgmental towards the country's politicians & people involved, not the ordinary people who didn't have a say in what is/was done.

It's like targeting Muslim people for ISIS. Ring a bell?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

BlacklabelToday 12:58 pm JST

its actually not. what do all you mean by "take out"?

Seriously? You want to know what "Take out" means?

Apart from take out food, in this context it means to kill, assassinate, execute, or remove from power.

Is it the responsibility of any other country to "take out" their leaders when they do something the people dont support? like for example Covid lockdowns or buying oil from Russia?

WTF? You think starting an invasion with your neighbor that kills thousands has any equality at all with a covid lockdown or buying oil? I know your taking the pi.. but mate that is a fairly blatant overstatement even for you.

And yes I am all for someone "taking him out" (killing him)!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Bottom line is this war could have been avoided if the Ukraine Government had just agreed to stay away from NATO and not try to get nuclear armed again! Or Ukraine should have joined NATO under the radar rather than beating the drums day and night about their intentions! There were easier ways to join Nato rather than the approach that Ukraine Government were doing! The Western countries encouraged Ukraine to offend Russia day and night and when the time came to protect Ukraine from Russia, the West are just sideline spectators implementing sanctions which won’t last! The brave Ukrainian citizens are fighting the Russian military themselves! Would The US allow Mexico, Cuba or Venezuela to get Nuclear armed…a resounding no! Heck, they would have done the same to these countries as Russia did to Ukraine ( Iraq is a proof of that )!

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Or Ukraine should have joined NATO under the radar rather than beating the drums day and night about their intentions! 

This is just idiotic. There is no secret way of joining NATO, its an international treaty organization that has a very lengthy and fully public process a country has to follow to even apply, let alone join.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

But he has to. He/they are making out that Putin's actions are somehow caused by 'liberals' failure. This is ALL Putin, and if they justify Putin's narrative they have to justify the murder.

Blaming attempts to integrate Ukraine into NATO and justifying Putin's invasion of Ukraine are not equivocal.

*Kidnapper holds hostage at gun point and says if you move any closer, I'll shoot.

*John says the police should not move closer. The police moves closer and the hostage is shot.

*Is John justifying the shooting of the innocent person held hostage?

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

There too many comments here calling for the assassination of Putin. Throughout history national leaders have been murdered, usually by those closest to them. Caesar is the first that comes to mind, but his death did not lead to a better Roman Empire, it was still oppressive and brutal. If and when Putin goes there will be another tyrannical leader to follow, that is how Russia operates, it is not a free country. And as a footnote, were there any calls for the assassinations of Bush and Blair, and so many EU countries leaders when they invaded, illegally, a sovereign country, Iraq, followed by Afghanistan. Both those wars were brutal, over a million innocents killed, countless millions made refugees. They were both war crimes, yet not one of the leaders have been held accountable.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Blaming attempts to integrate Ukraine into NATO and justifying Putin's invasion of Ukraine are not equivocal.

*Kidnapper holds hostage at gun point and says if you move any closer, I'll shoot.

*John says the police should not move closer. The police moves closer and the hostage is shot.

*Is John justifying the shooting of the innocent person held hostage?

I have no idea whether to upvote this or downvote it. I don't think anyone does.

Can you start over?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The issue is who is to blame. As Chomsky points out, no russian leader could accept a NATO expansion into Ukraine, just as no American president could accept Soviet missiles in Cuba.

NATO and the US paid for and helped dismantle the nukes Ukraine inherited from the USSR. Russia was broke and unable to do that itself. NATO membership was a decade away for Ukraine, and no matter what Russian fears were, they have no right to tell another sovereign nation what organization they can join.

The US did not stop Cuba from being aligned with the USSR. It did mind when nukes were on route to be deployed there.

The US should have then invaded Cuba to stop it being aligned with the USSR as that is the equal to what Russia is doing right now, today to stop a future of Ukraine in NATO.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

And as a footnote, were there any calls for the assassinations of Bush and Blair, and so many EU countries leaders when they invaded, illegally, a sovereign country, Iraq, followed by Afghanistan. Both those wars were brutal, over a million innocents killed, countless millions made refugees. They were both war crimes, yet not one of the leaders have been held accountable.

While Iraq was not justified, Afghanistan was. It is the winners that hold the losers to account, just look at WWII. With the exception of Stalin who with Hitler started WWII, the main germans caught were tried and executed for their crimes. The Allied generals guilty in the same way for things like fire bombing Dresden escaped any punishment. Victors justice applies.

Russia may eventually leave due to attrition, but they will not be conquered so they will not face victors justice. Everyone wanted Hitler "taken out" and attempts were made, but all failed. Nobody will object if an attempt on Putin succeeds.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

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