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Peace efforts intensify as Gaza death toll tops 1,000

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The groups wrote to Israeli leaders that the Gaza campaign has left civilians with nowhere to flee.

Israel likes it that way. Better to kill Palestinians that way.

Guerrillas in Lebanon sent rockets crashing into northern Israel on Wednesday for the second time in a week, drawing an Israeli artillery barrage and threatening to drag the Jewish state into a second front.

This helps Israel out a lot. Are there more fronts that could be exploited?

Israel launched its offensive Dec 27 to halt years of Palestinian rocket attacks.

No those were in retaliation to attacks on Gaza citizens.

Israeli leaders signaled that they have crippled Hamas to their satisfaction after 19 days of heavy bombardment and ground fighting, but were holding out for international guarantees that weapons would no longer be smuggled into Gaza.

Are you serious, after 19 days of terrorism, you expect some flimsy piece of paper is going to sooth relations? Please. Israel has led a campaign of murder for these 19 days. They have carried out a coordinated attack from air and sea and land upon a nation that would like to live in peace, but was attacked in November and drawn into this eradication effort.

The only problem is, Israel can't use bigger bombs and ordances because the world is watching.

There was one shipment of weapons from the U. S. that was stopped in Greece (was that it)? Has it been allowed to continue? Maybe their bigger stuff was stopped.

I would hope that this can be worked out, that we could have peace, but it's not going to be rectified, yet. Just because Israel had the firepower, bucks and support from the U. S. doesn't make it right or worked out. < :-)

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adaydream at 08:00 AM JST - 15th January

"They have carried out a coordinated attack from air and sea and land upon a nation that would like to live in peace,"

Peacefully firing rockets at Israel. They don't want those nasty Israeli jets stopping them

Hamas agree to a peace deal & then go on to keep it?

Those Israeli jets best watch where they are flying, they might crash into those flying pigs.

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This'll give Hamas 10 days to gather what they have left to throw at Israel.

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Palestinian = Hamas = Terrorist.. There is totally no civilians here..only fighters of different age and gender..Palestinian had choose their destiny and Israeli must push on to complete the task once and for all..10 day truce is a total bullshit..that doesn't serve any purpose..

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adaydream,

Israel likes it that way. Better to kill Palestinians that way.

This is about Gazan Palestinians specifically. What is your basis for your assertion that 'Israel likes it that way'?

This helps Israel out a lot. Are there more fronts that could be exploited?

Again, what is your basis for your assertion that Israel would like to be attacked from another front?

No those were in retaliation to attacks on Gaza citizens.

Israel attacks specifically members of Hamas who are alledged to have been smuggling in November and the two parties agreed thereafter to continue the ceasefire. It was Hamas that decided not to continue the ceasefire in December (more than a month after the November incident), not Israel.

upon a nation that would like to live in peace

Could you please show me where Hamas has said they would like to live in peace side-by-side (real peace, please and not truces) with Israel? I have yet to see such a statement on the part of Hamas.

I would hope that this can be worked out, that we could have peace, but it's not going to be rectified, yet. Just because Israel had the firepower, bucks and support from the U. S. doesn't make it right or worked out.

I agree with your hopes for a true peace. It will take all sides to be in agreement for it to work though.

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kinniku - Israel did the same kind of killing in Lebanon, remember. Only difference is they used cluster bombs then and now they're using white phosphorus (wp)bombs.

That was a little sarcasm. They attacked Gaza, 1 front. Lebanon is front #2. Who else do they want pot shots at Israel or the other way around?

I believe they want to live in peace. I see closed gates, starvation and death. You look through your own glasses.

Again, this attack by Israel will not end this back and forth. Tt's going to take more effort then just yelling attack.

There has to be saner individuals and brighter minds who can work this out. < :-)

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Egypt and Hamas are close to a deal for a 10-day cease-fire

Better known as a hudna. When Muslim Arabs are losing a battle, they use a hudna to re-arm themselves.

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10- day truce, what does that mean? I thought both Hamas and Israel,this time all want to fight to their satisfaction. I don't know what Hamas wants to achieve by launching rockets against a much much stronger opponent when they started this mess. Israel wants to teach Hamas a very hard lesson once and for all: in the future every time you attack us first, we will retaliate with extremely brutal force, cop that! Hope the lesson will work and hope that after 10-day truce, permanent peace will come. Hamas does not need to love Israel just stop attacking, because Israel is so powerful. And that is the only reason. All other arguments are useless.

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unless the united states intervenes, israel will successfully kill every elderly person/woman/child in the gaza strip within the next 5 years. the palestinians cannot reproduce at a rate which exceeds mossad's ability to murder them. especially with their (mossad's) sophisticated, american weaponry.

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By the end of these wars or truce, gaza palestine may become more like lebanon full of international peacekeepers and rich economic aid. Already economic boost is just waiting to loaded via sea ships from EU/Gulf nations/OPEC/others.

It will be better richer gaza in 2009 after this conflict. The ships and economic aid just waiting for the ceasefire. More cash aid is being collected in many nations.

Many say Netanyahu of Likud will be next PM.

May be it could be Ehud Barak or may be a total new PM. Feb elections in Israel,gonna be cliffhanger.

Already arab parties in israel are banned in coming elections. Next mandate could the cure, that is needed for new israel and fatah-hamas new palestine. New lebanon after 2006 war is doing okay. Just a view,may come true.

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adaydream,

Hezbollah attacked Israel and Israel responded. If we are being balanced, it is important to be aware that both sides in that conflict used cluster bombs as the UN at the time pointed out.

I don't think your sarcasm is helpful to the discussion, particularly if it does not reflect the attitudes or the situation. Israel is not asking for Hezbollah to attack and there was no reason for Hezbollah to attack, particularly when they are well aware of what happened the last time they attacked Israel.

I believe they want to live in peace. I see closed gates, starvation and death.

I see the closed gates, starvation and death as well and mourn the fact that it continues. However, I also see Hamas not making any serious attempts to improve the situation for their people regarding its relationship with Israel. Both sides have a responsibility to end the violence. I do not see Hamas suggesting they want to live in a serious peace (not a truce but a real peace) with Israel.

Again, this attack by Israel will not end this back and forth. Tt's going to take more effort then just yelling attack. There has to be saner individuals and brighter minds who can work this out.

I agree 100%.

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By the time this truce, if it comes to pass, will be over, Obama will be in office. I guarantee that will have an effect, good or bad, on how Israel continues or ceases to continue its campaign.

I hope Obama comes in and takes away some if not all of the carte blanche given to Israel by the current US admin. in particular. At the very least, I hope he exerts some pressure on Israel in addition to the pressure being exerted by the US on Hamas (I'm not at all suggesting that be altered, by the way). Even the slightest bit of pressure on Israel could help ease the conflict somewhat, and it needs to be.

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The only problem is, Israel can't use bigger bombs and ordances because the world is watching.

Indeed. And if foreign journalists were allowed into Gaza, they would also me more careful with their smaller ones.

Two firefighters were killed in an airstrike as they tried to extinguish a blaze in a residential building in northern Gaza City late Wednesday, Palestinian medics said. A shell had been fired at the apartment, causing the blaze.

Why in the world would they strike a burning building? Are they intentionally trying to kill rescue workers? Oh, I remember now, we already established they target rescue workers and humanitarian aid workers.

I do not see Hamas suggesting they want to live in a serious peace (not a truce but a real peace) with Israel.

Real peace is exactly what Hamas wants. They don't want the usual truce, which Israel constantly ignores with false excuses.

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There can be no truce until the genocide is completed and the Gaza strip and West Bank are fully occupied by and incorporated into Israel. Do not think that the IDF is afraid to slaughter to the last in order to achive the aim. There is no conscience, no limit to the madness and inhumanity that is Israeli culture.

Moderator: Please refrain from making inflammatory comments.

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Real peace is exactly what Hamas wants.

Real peace with Israel? What specifically are you basing this assertion on? When has Hamas specifically said they are willing to have a real peace with Israel?

They don't want the usual truce, which Israel constantly ignores with false excuses.

Actually, that is incorrect on both levels. First, Hamas has often suggested truces. One of their suggestions was for a 10 year truce. However they suggested that the 10 year truce was not intended to lead to a permanent peace between Israel. As far as 'ignoring ceasefires', both have broken ceasefires.

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Kinniku - Lebanon never used cluster bombs? Provide the links that prove this. < :-)

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As far as 'ignoring ceasefires', both have broken ceasefires.

Since you seem to trust CNN, check this out:http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=3wPOfi_iFnI&eurl

The last ceasefire was broken by Israel. Although not mentioned in the video, several Palestinians (20?) were killed last November. I am sure you mourn these people too...

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10 days to reload.

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adaydream,

Lebanon never used cluster bombs?

If I understand what you wrote, are you asking me if Hezbollah used cluster bombs? If so, the answer is yes. Hezbollah did use cluster bombs in their battle with Israel.

Provide the links that prove this.

Respectfully, I am tired of having to provide links to things that are not particularly secret or hard to find. However, here are a couple of links:

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2006/10/20/hezbollah_used_cluster_bombs_rights_group_states/

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2006/07/17/lebanon-hezbollah-rocket-attacks-haifa-designed-kill-civilians

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The last ceasefire was broken by Israel. Although not mentioned in the video, several Palestinians (20?) were killed last November.

Israel attacked specifically members of Hamas who are alledged to have been smuggling in November and the two parties agreed thereafter to continue the ceasefire. It was Hamas that decided not to continue the ceasefire in December (more than a month after the November incident), not Israel.

I am sure you mourn these people too...

I mourn the loss of any innocent life. Unlike you, I also mourn the fact there is no peace between Israel and Palestine. Unlike you, I also mourn the fact that a Palestinian state and an Israeli state do not yet live side-by-side in peace. However, the reason that peace still alludes the region is because extremists do not want there to be two nations side-by-side in peace. You share this with them. This is worth mourning as well.

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Like I said, Hizbollah didn't use cluster bombs. Didn't think so...

Your second article doesn't even address cluster bombs. The used bombs with ball bearings. (get it right) Compared to cluster bombs this is nothing.

But I did find this link:

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2006-10-20-hezbollah-used-cluster-bombs

Israeli police told Human Rights Watch they had documented 113 cluster rockets fired at Israel, causing one death and 12 injuries. In Lebanon the UN has identified 749 locations hit by cluster weapons. Many bomblets fail to explode and 20 deaths from cluster weapons have been reported in southern Lebanon since the ceasefire.

Yep you may be right.

Now take your right hand and look directly at your palm. Place your palm on your shoulder. Now tap tap tap your shoulder. Congratulations.

Your sarcasm isn't very cute. That's the first time I've seen that documented. Thanks.

Now back to Gaza and the mindless killing of Gazan citizens. Cease fire. < :-)

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It is important to realize that the strategy is and always has been to drive the arab inhabitants out of Palestine. You can ignore all the "official" justifications for the war against Palestine. It is an occupation and genocide. Logical people know that violence does not solve violence, all the power for a diplomatic peace is in the hands of the Israelis, but they do not desire agreements as the strategy is and always has been to drive the arab inhabitants out of Palestine. It is the dark truth, it is the world we live in.

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There's extremist on both sides, not just on Gazan'z side. It's alledged that terrorist were attempting to dig a tunnel. Right...

Israel does no wrong. Jesus Christ no they don't. < :-)

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Real peace is exactly what Hamas wants.

Geez, sabi, I don't even think you can convince the hard-core socialists here of this. Give it a rest.

Like I said, Hizbollah didn't use cluster bombs....Yep you may be right.

They certainly did, adaydream. And it's even verified by one of those human rights groups you love so much. Though I do give you credit for acknowledging your ignorance on the matter.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2006/10/20/hezbollah_used_cluster_bombs_rights_group_states/

Better to kill Palestinians that way.

adaydream, you've become almost hysterical about the deaths of innocent civilians in this conflict with Israel. Yet you've never expressed any concern about the tens of thousands of innocent civilians that have been murdered by Muslim Arabs in the Sudan over the past decade. Is it simply that there's no political gain for you in that conflict? It's pretty obvious you're using the "Palestinian" civilian deaths to advance your own politics, not because you really care about them. So, carry on with your faux concern.

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Real peace is exactly what Hamas wants.

Sure, if by "real peace" you mean every Jew driven into the sea.

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Jews driving over Hamas to get into the sea. That's what's happening right now. < :-)

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Jews driving over Hamas to get into the sea. That's what's happening right now.

Which makes the Arabs promise to drive every Jew into the sea in every one of the past wars look pretty lame, doesn't it? Make no mistake, though, it's what they had it mind for the Jews had they won any of those wars and their repeated attacks are why we're where we're at today.

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adaydream,

Like I said, Hizbollah didn't use cluster bombs. Didn't think so...

Human Rights Watch disagrees with you...as do I...

http://www.hrw.org/en/search/apachesolr_search/hezbollah+cluster+bombs

Human Rights Watch found that Hezbollah also fired cluster munitions into populated areas of Israel. Hezbollah fired 113 cluster munitions, which consisted of no less than 4,400 bomblets...

Your second article doesn't even address cluster bombs. The used bombs with ball bearings. (get it right) Compared to cluster bombs this is nothing.

I did paste the wrong link. The correct one is above. However, I find it sad that you are so blaise about bombs filled with ball bearings...This kind of weapon is also extremely lethal and nothing to make light of just because in this case they didn't happen to kill that many people.

Now take your right hand and look directly at your palm. Place your palm on your shoulder. Now tap tap tap your shoulder. Congratulations.

I am merely pointing out that both sides have used weapons you say you are against (unless you are now for ball-bearing filled bombs)...There is no need to get nasty...You were only looking at one side and I helped you see the other side...

Your sarcasm isn't very cute.

What sarcasm are you talking about? I am not being sarcastic about anything. The suffering of others is nothing to be sarcastic about.

That's the first time I've seen that documented. Thanks.

You are welcome. With this post it will be at least the second time you have seen it documented..

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It's alledged that terrorist were attempting to dig a tunnel. Right...

Hmmm...is this some sort of evidence that Hamas was not using tunnels to smuggle? Aren't you the one in November that was claiming that Hamas was just trying to bring in food? Now you say it didn't happen at all? Rather strange.

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It is important to realize that the strategy is and always has been to drive the arab inhabitants out of Palestine."

Well, I guess it should be considered payback, a few thousand years late, but a pay back.

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Hmmm...is this some sort of evidence that Hamas was not using tunnels to smuggle? Aren't you the one in November that was claiming that Hamas was just trying to bring in food? Now you say it didn't happen at all? Rather strange.

Are you implying that people "smuggling" food or medicine deserve to be blown to bits. We already established that Israel does not want Gazans to receive adequate humanitarian aid. So it is very much possible that those who were killed were only importing much needed food or medicine. Just because Israel claims they were smuggling weapons, does not make it true, they have been proven countless times to lie when making excuses for murdering Palestinians.

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But I also understand someone being blase about this.

No doubt you would understand being blase about Israeli lives, for they never seem to have much of a value to you. However, the cluster weapons Hezbollah used were condemned along with Israeli usage. In addition, as usual, your analogy rings false. Hezbollah are not 5 year old children and would be insulted by the analogy. They are a deadly force and it seems they still have not learned that they should not attack Israel.

Are you implying that people "smuggling" food or medicine deserve to be blown to bits.

No, I am not. I am saying that it has been reported and that it is alledged that members of Hamas were attempting to use tunnels along the border to smuggle weapons. I am also saying that is the stated reason why Israel attacked in November. I have also stated that both sides agreed in November after that to continue the ceasefire. Again, BOTH sides agree to continue the ceasefire. In December, it was Hamas that decline to extend the ceasefire and then fired rockets into Israel.

We already established that Israel does not want Gazans to receive adequate humanitarian aid.

Nothing of the kind has been "established". Do you have a specific quote saying as much?

So it is very much possible that those who were killed were only importing much needed food or medicine.

Armed members of Hamas importing food? Do you have some precedence for attempting this line of reasoning? Has Hamas used armed members in the past to import food? They certainly have imported weapons. Then again, you don't mind that they do, so I am not sure why you even bother to argue the point. You are on record as writing you could not care less if they were smuggling weapons.

they have been proven countless times to lie when making excuses for murdering Palestinians.

No, they have not. However, you have been proven to misrepresent the truth countless times when it comes to Israel or members of the Jewish faith in general...for example when you attempted to claim Ari Flescher was an ordain rabbi!!

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Israel attacked specifically members of Hamas who are alledged to have been smuggling in November and the two parties agreed thereafter to continue the ceasefire.

Yes, alleged. They ended up killing about 20 Palestinians.

It was Hamas that decided not to continue the ceasefire in December (more than a month after the November incident), not Israel.

Sorry, but Hamas offered a cease-fire in mid-December and Israel refused.

I admit you are extremely well informed on Israeli issues, maybe more than anybody here. But you are also extremely selective in the information you chose to share with us. Agenda?

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Are you implying that people "smuggling" food or medicine deserve to be blown to bits.

Hey sabiwabi, if Hamas is using the tunnels to smuggle in food and medicine but not weapons, then how come they have so little food and medicine yet so many rockets? Wouldn't it be just the opposite? Gee whiz, it makes no sense.

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I just had a thought. Ahmadinejad gave a beautiful message of peace for Christmas, I wonder if he was aware of this carnage approaching. And I wonder about the leaders of the various Jewish groups that complained vigorously about this message, were they aware of this carnage approaching. Just a thought!

BTW, the last post was addressed at kinniku, of course.

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sabiwabi,

Yes, alleged. They ended up killing about 20 Palestinians.

Heh, in addition to reading troubles it seems you can't count either. The November attacks resulted in six Hamas member dead... IDF carried out an attack against a house in Gaza in which six members of Hamas's military wing were killed, including two commanders, and several more were wounded.

Also you claim Hamas was using the tunnels for food. Well, you certainly did not hear that from Hamas as they commented about the tunnel in this way:

Hamas officials asserted, however, that the tunnel was being dug for defensive purposes, not to capture IDF personnel.

Unfortunately, since Hamas has used tunnels to capture IDF personnel in the past and as they admit themselves they WERE NOT using the tunnel for food etc, stopping their tunnel work seems to make sense.

Sorry, but Hamas offered a cease-fire in mid-December and Israel refused.

So you say...on December 19th Hamas refused to renew the ceasefire...so are you talking about before the 19th or after when you say mid-December? If it is before, the December 19th refusal would trump it. Nevermind, I just checked...Hamas officially rejected the idea of a renewal of a ceasefire on December 22nd and then shot two rockets into Israel as reported by the BBC...

the last post was addressed at kinniku, of course. Ahmadinejad gave a beautiful message of peace for Christmas...

Sorry I still have your Christmas message blaming the Jews for killing Jesus ringing in my ears....No wonder you would like Ahmadinejad's speech, huh?

Speaking of which...

Agenda?

Balance and truthfulness. Thank you for asking...

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This:

On Wednesday, a total of 15 rockets and mortars were fired into Israel from Gaza

and this:

Nevertheless, Israel is not feeling any pressure at this point to end the operation

go hand in hand.

If Hamas stopped the rocket fire the international community would put intense pressure on Israel to stop. Every rocket Hamas fires into Israel is a huge release valve for Israel.

But we know Hamas.....they just can't stop firing even if it's counterproductive. It's what they do.

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daydream, militants in Lebanon are sending rockets into Israel. Israel responded. I find it hard to believe that someone would consider this to be a threat by Israel, or something Israel wants.

And even if it was something Israel wants, why would Hezbollah oblige? If one were to believe your point they'd have to believe that Hezbollah is working for the benefit of Israel. That's an odd position to make, in my opinion.

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Everything I've read about the recent rockets from Lebanon leads one to believe that is was done by a new Saudi funded terrorist group and not Hezbollah.

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If Hamas stopped the rocket fire the international community would put intense pressure on Israel to stop. Every rocket Hamas fires into Israel is a huge release valve for Israel.

Maybe you missed the headline?:

Peace efforts intensify as Gaza death toll tops 1,000

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Israel has a chance now, a short precious window to do something for itself and the world. By taking a Japanese approach. Announce a cease-fire, and explain that it was pressure from Ban-ki-Moon and the UN that forced their hand. EVEN IF SUCH IS NOT TRUE... but it will look and sound good to the rest of the world.

Israel will have saved the face of the UN, will have given legitimacy to the UN and will have helped restore world order.

By ignoring the UN and pushing through with its own agenda, it will create the impression of severe self-centredness and arrogance, and it may destroy the faith of the world in the power of the UN. This could give legitimacy to ANY OTHER hard-nosed group that decides to take matters in its own hands.

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"On Wednesday a total of 15 rockets and mortars were fired into Israel from Gaza"

Next Wednesday it may be zero or close to it.

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Umm...nandakandamanda......what about the rockets?

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...and Sabi.... Last I checked, your theory was that Israel was firing rockets into their own country and framing Hamas for it. What happened to that little nugget? ;)

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SuperLib, forget about the rockets. Israel is bigger than that. And I think Hamas have got the message by now. "Keep up with the rockets and we will come back and pay you another visit." See Hesbollah are keeping their distance, despite past rhetoric.

Hamas have probably had enough of their little game. They have almost succeeded in their subconscious plan of reducing the residents of Palestine to living in tents in the desert, the harsh state of existence around the beginnings of Islam. Maybe they can release some of their food and medicines to their own people now.

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nandakandamanda at 10:07 PM JST - 15th January

“and it may destroy the faith of the world in the power of the UN.”

Who in the world (except the UN) has faith in the UN?

Two weeks ago 500 people, men, women & children were butchered in Africa, they were killed using knives, clubs & anything else that came to hand. Very few were killed using guns, i.e. modern weapons. This was not reported as or spoken of as being genocide. It generated next to no comment on JT be comparison to blizzard of anti-Israeli comment we have been getting since the start of the war in Gasa.

Now make the comparison, with Israel’s army conducting an all out war against Hamas they have killed just over 1000 people. The firepower being used by Israel is frightening, but to any sane person it must be obvious that that firepower has been used with great care. If this were the genocide that some here would like it paint it has being the numbers of dead would & could have been colossal, but they are not.

Hamas brought about this public relations war to fool the gullible & in that sense they are being successful, if they post here are anything to go by there are a lot of gullible people in the world who believe that dead children really matter to Hamas. Hamas are sacrificing their own for the TV cameras & it their minds that is a small price to pay. These are the people so many are here & elsewhere defending & calling the victims. Hamas are the Palestinians & the Palestinians support Hamas.

Arguing about who did what when to who becomes totally pointless. Deal with Hamas’ strategy today, this is what they wanted & created for just the reasons we are now seeing, the worlds gullibility. We are dealing with a group of people who’s mend set is so alien that sometimes it is hard to understand what could possibly drive them on & on with what on the surface seems such insane behaviour. They cannot possibly win a war against Israel yet they have started one.

The reason is to get all the support that the gullible will give them & so many of you are doing just that.

Any man that would be willing to put his own child in the firing line to win ANYTHING deserves to be shot in the head. THAT is Hamas.

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Yup, Grafton, no problem with any of that. Just saying that Israel has a lovely little opportunity right now to kill two birds with one stone. To pull out gracefully, having made a point, instead of getting further bogged down and unable to find a face-saving natural pivotal moment for withdrawal. And to make the deal with the UN, in apology for the disdain it has shown so far, and in anticipation of more disaffected youth turning to alternative possibly inhuman ideologies or religions.

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Sell each side a nuke and see who uses it first. I think it'll end in a tie. Oh and send in those reporters to get it on the news.

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Israel has now bombed a U. N. compound, a international media center and started fire at a U. N. warehouse that had 100s tons of relief supplies with white phosphorus (WP). The relief supplies included food, water, fuel and medicines.

No where in Gaza is safe. Innocent women and children are being murdered. Of the over 1000 dead Gazans, a third of them are children.

This needs to end. Gaza's been punished enough. < :-)

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I agree with adaydream and strongly disagree with extremist views shown by grafton.

Israel is lobbing bombs in blindly, no way it they making sure they don't hurt innocents and all that.

Strewth, all me predictions have come true so far, i knew Israel couldn't resist destroying everythink in Gaza. They is bloodthirsty, gawd it obvious innit.

I don't reckon anyone with a grain of common sense is supporting Israel killing all these women and children.

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"This needs to end. Gaza's been punished enough"

Anyone want to help the Israelis finish off Hamas? That'll end it sooner, no?

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Israel is lobbing bombs in blindly, no way it they making sure they don't hurt innocents and all that.

Although untrue, even if it was accurate, "lobbing bombs in blindly" is different from the Hamas rocket attacks on Israeli civilians how exactly?

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The difference is Israel is supported by America, and supplied with WMD's.

Strewth, look at the difference in the amount killed on each side. Don't be fooled sonny jim, use your noddle. Who has occupies and stdeals the other persons land, it's the Jews innit!

I predicted this would happen. I say send in Nato and sort the Israeli's out, and don't forget all the broken UN resolutions by darling Israel.

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I agree with Graftons more moderate viewpoint, and strongly disagree with the extremist views held by Alfgarnett and adaydream. I don't think there is anyone who knows the facts, that actually supports their nonsense. Who think its ok that the people in Gaza should be allowed to freely murder their neighbors without fear of consequence.

The consequences are here. The Pals should be groveling on their knees that Israel is being so considerate and careful, and not just carpet bombing the place like Britain did to Germany in WW2.

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MOlenir: We aint living in the 1949's with threat of Nazi Germany are we?

Gordon BRown has called the latest attack on innocent ata UN centre "indefensible" and siad Israel should halt all military action.

I supose he is an extremist eh! Hardly. You who supports Israel is in the minority, because you're wrong and aint man enough to admit it.

It's genocide, that is the word for it, bloody genocide and it makes me and all rational people bloody angry!

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Molenir.

Thank you, though I have to admit that this blind support of the Palestinians sometimes makes me angry enough to condone carpet bombing of the Gasa just so the comparison can really be seen. There is a hypocrisy at play behind many of the anti-Israeli posts that for me translates into something like “I like Jewish people but I wouldn’t want my daughter to marry one”. It is not so much what is said as what isn’t said. Israel at the moment can do nothing right, Hamas is somehow separated off from the Palestinians as though they are not of the same people which acts as a mechanism where-by it’s possible & acceptable to be pro-Palestinian without somehow also being pro-Hamas.

Hamas are Palestinians & they pushed & pushed & pushed to bring this situation about, they wanted this to happen! They brought the wrath of Israel down on the Gasa deliberately, callously putting their own families in the line of fire & the only possible reason, the obvious reason is the biggest, bloodiest public relation exercise aimed at the knee jerk gullible of the world who have, predictably fallen for it.

Reading many of the posts here leaves me wondering how seeming intelligent people can spend so much time arguing pointless details about who did what to whom first while ignoring the simple obvious fact that this whole situation was designed by Hamas to create exactly what is happening.

They are bringing about the deaths of their own children to get our attention & turn the world against Israel. The rights & wrongs of what they believe, what they want & even what might or might not have been done to them become nothing when seen in this light. If Eskimos left their children out on the ice because they wanted the temperature to get warmer we would say they were evil & stupid, we would not blame the ice & snow for being cold. But many here do blame Israel for Hamas/the Palestinians for sacrificing their children.

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"It's genocide, that is the word for it, bloody genocide and it makes me and all rational people bloody angry!"

Just over 1000 out 1,500,000 doesn't even come close to genocide.

Rational people don't get angry, they think before they speak (write).

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There is something that has been overlooked. Something I find quite interesting.

During the fighting Hama's chief rival Fatah has been surprisingly quiet even as reports come in of Fatah suporters being shot and killed within Gaza, not by Isrealii fire but by Hamas supporters. Curious.

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Presumptuous are we not Thenewfront? More goes into this than you can see.

This is what I see happening. Hamas, the illegitemite spawn of the Muslim Brotherhood, inserts itself into the Gaza strip.

For most of its existance it enguages in suicide bombings in executions eventually culminating in the Passover Massacre in which 30 people were killed and 140 were wounded.

In 2006 it wrests control of Palestine from the Fatah.

It begins to loose control of its crumbling infrastructure and now, its greatest enemy conveniently attacks eventually reafirming its anti-isrealii sentiments.

A cleaver plan no?

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THeQuestion: How many deaths have Israel caused in a mere 2 weeks comapred to the awful terror of 2 years of Hamas.

Kind of answers the question really about which side has the least morals and who enjoys murdering the most.

Whatever the history between Gaza and Israel , the Israeli attacks are inhuman and a disgrace. They should be taken out of Gaza by a Nato force, but the US of A will block it, you betcha!

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Spreading obvious untruths about Israel isn't going to help the Palestinians. If anything, it makes their situation worse by making Palestinian supporters seem too emotional. That undercuts the credibility of those who might otherwise be using valid arguments.

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Ah, so we're getting back to that are we? Bringing up past wrongs, digging into history to find out who did what to whom? Ok then, let us reiterate the basic points. What it comes down to as you should very well know, is the disgraceful and continued attacks by Hamas upon Israel. Israel pulls out, and allows the Pals to run Gaza, they knowingly elect terrorists to be their leaders, who promptly attack Israel. Israel does very little in retaliation other then close their borders, and the occasional air strike, hoping to take the head off the monster.

Hamas continues, and Israel after months and months of increasing attacks, belligerence, and provocation on the part of Hamas, finally warns them that there will be consequences. Hamas becomes more aggressive, essentially daring Israel to do what it can. Israel responds, and thats where we're at. With Hamas cowering in terror from Israeli might, behind the skirts of their women and children. Terrified fighters who would rather, their children die then come out and fight. They want Israel there. They want Israel to kill their children. That has been their goal for a long time. So all you who spout off in support of them, you are essentially saying, that their tactics, of putting their own women and children into the line of fire, is ok. That its all right for them to arrange for their peoples deaths, as long as it suits their purposes. To set up mortar outposts next to schools, knowing that Israel will return fire, and that their children will be killed.

Lets be clear here, AlfGarnett, and TheNewFront when you are spouting off condemning Israel, you are actually supporting those who use these tactics. You saying Israel is committing Genocide, but not condemning those who demand, nay begged them to do so. Why not stand up for whats right for a change. Either that or at least have the decency to admit what you really are, and that you support those who would murder their own people rather then give peace a chance.

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I condemn attack by both sides. But i condemn Israel more for its over excessive killing spree, without concern for innocents, and also its refusal to obey UN Resolutions (More than Saddam).

Killing, destroying and stealing land, Israel whoever applauds your actions is an ignorant.

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The lack of concern on Israels part is demonstrated by the thousands and thousands of Pals killed everyday right? Yeah, more like the thousands who still live because Israel is being exceedingly careful about shooting innocents, despite the Hamas killers who hide among them.

Personally I don't applaud Israel or anyone killing, destroying, or stealing land, though I do applaud Israel for pulling out of the West Bank and Gaza for so long, despite the immense provocation, designed to specifically draw them back in.

As I said before, anyone who supports Hamas in this, is basically stating they support those who murder women and children. Doing so by cowering behind them, and allowing them to serve as shields against retaliation. Such bravery!

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Molenir: Irepaet "I condemn attacks by both sides". I hope this clarigies the matter for you.

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Thats great to hear. Perhaps some of your posts will be slanted more towards the middle then, rather then being, all Hamas, all the time. I look forward to seeing a more even stance from you in the future, rather then more just blind condemnation of Israel.

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Molenir,

Sometimes neutrality has to be critical of one side or the other. Witness the IRC condemnation of Israeli action.

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The IRC is not being rocketed randomly. Once you people experience this lets see how you judge those who do this to you. It cannot be ignored any longer. The people calling for this calm are doing nothing but making themselves look good and sympathetic. And America will not 'block' anything. Get off of your Blame America cr@p.

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bushlover,

What are you talking about? Who said anything about blaming America? And what is the relevance to IRC's neutrality that it is not being rocketed randomly?

The point here is that neutral observers can, and often do, weigh their criticism more heavily against one side than against another. This is why most historians do not try to "balance" the holocaust with an understanding and compassionate view of why it was thought to be necessary.

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Sez you mean the way people criticize cops for using their weapons to protect themselves?

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bushlover,

No. I didn't say anything about cops. Why not address what I've said instead of trying to make what I've said mean something else?

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I give up on you Sez if your not smart enough to get the similie I presented.

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