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White House condemns attack on U.S. embassy in Yemen

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The bush administration has had their chance to work with the countries overseas and hasn't been able to stop attacks on our government.

It's about time that we had another administration to work on stopping these attacks against us.

John McCain is the same as george bush. Barack Obama is the change we need. < :-)

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adaydream; the war is being won ,but is not over. Bush said it may take 50 years. Obama would just run off an dlet AlQaida do what they want, the guy is a fruitcake.

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"killing six Yemeni guards"

I'll bet the Yeminis are ticked off at the scumbags who did this.

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AQ has been targeting Americans way before this administration and has attacked US embassies and US buildings before. It has always caused more damage and death to the locals then the US personel. Its a sad thing that I hate to say will happen for as long as the US is a global power, just like it has happened to other global powers..

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nippon,

Don't kid yourself. The so-called war on terror has amplified the desire by Islamic fundies to attack global American interests.

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Madverts - So, you're saying we should lay down our arms and surrender to the Islamic fundies in the hope that we can de-amplifly their desire to attack global American interests, right?

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No, sarge, I'm saying the so-called war on terror has fueled the fire of terorism, only under the pretext of actually fighting it.

Would you like to present some statistics on the difference in global terror attacks befoe and after Bush Co launched their so-called war on terror, or would you like to leave it at that?

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Madverts ,

where did I say it hasnt increased since we entered Iraq??? Did I defend any president? Did I say anything other then this has been happening for a long time?? It happened when I was in the military and I served under three differnt presidents.. So please explain how I am kidding myself in a statement that is 100% the truth?

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madverts - OK, if the "so-called war on terror" has "fueled the fire of terrorism" what's your brilliant solution? Even if there has been an increase in global terror attacks, how about laying some of the blame on the scumbags carrying out the attacks instead of whining about those who are trying to stop them? Nah...

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Nippon,

I wasn't talking about Iraq I was talking about the so-called global war on terror. To hear you say it, attacks on US interests is normal simply because the US is a super-power. Whilst I don't paticularly have an opinion on your claims, my reference to the hike in global terrorist attacks since the launch of the so-called war on terror was directed at sarge.

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sarge, you expect me, once again, to have solutions for the troubles you lot actually shrieked to create all those years back at the beginning of this troubled century?

You supported bush co when they touched off this paticular blaze. I think it is perfectly honest for me, in light of the gargantuesque size of the failure, to laugh where necassary at those that haven't an inkling of regret for making the situation worse under the guise of fixing the damned problem in the first place.

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madverts, if you don't have any solutions, then why come here and whine? I mean, how useless is that?

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sarge, you supprted the failed governance that created this mess. Your guy, bush, has actually increased terrorist attacks - and let's be honest here in saying it 'aint by no small percentage, and you're berating me for not having a solution??

Heh, like I said many a time, Denial of this magnitude deserves a medical term.

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adverts - Bush hasn't increased terrorist attacks, the terrorists have increased terrorist attacks. This is not rocket science...

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sarge - let me get this straight.

bush launches a so-called war on terrorists, only the consequences of so-called war, create at least one huge playground for terrorists - like the city of Baghdad for example, that went from 0 car-bombings a day, to at one point 40 car-bombings a day.

Only according to you, heh, this isn't bush's fault.

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The religion of peace in Yemen.

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Prior to Bush taking action, we had 2 attacks in the US, the WTC and Pentagon. After Bush took action we have had zero. Attacks by terrorsts in the US had been reduced to nothing.

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Madverts:

" sarge, you supprted the failed governance that created this mess. Your guy, bush, has actually increased terrorist attacks "

Nope, doesn´t match the facts. Jihadist activity has not increased or decreased. However, jihadist attacks inside the US have decreased under the Bush government, obviously because of stronger law enforcement.

Under Obama, you can look forward to more jihadist terrorism inside the US, otherwise no big difference.

The Jihad will go on until the whole world is united under Shariah. Changes in kuffar governments don´t matter.

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ossan,

Using that kind of dishonest mathematics, bush's watch had the lot.

Please try again....

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Global suicide bombing attacks are up. And they're up by massive amounts. And this, thanks to bush, who claimed to be starting these was in the name of fighting them.

This surely isn't so hard to absorb.

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Prior to Bush taking action, we had 2 attacks in the US, the WTC and Pentagon. After Bush took action we have had zero. Attacks by terrorsts in the US had been reduced to nothing.

Yeah, terrorists don't kill Americans anymore. They mostly kill Europeans and Muslims. Why do terrorists hate them so much?

Perhaps Adverts can fill us in?

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killing six Yemeni guards and four civilians, officials said. No American personnel were reported hurt.

Nice try Taliban or whoever. You are just pissing off the world as much as the states is.

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sarge said:

madverts, if you don't have any solutions, then why come here and whine? I mean, how useless is that?

madverts has at least stated the problem. You have not come to terms with the fact that there is more al-Qaida out there now than there was when Bush started his war on terror. sarge you don't even know what the problem is so any solution you try to pontificate is irrelevant.

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I do want to express my sympathy for those killed and injured and their families. This senseless violence is shameful. Innocent people get hurt who had nothing to do with the issues the terrorists are fighting for.

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I condemn the attack, also. < :-)

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moderateguy2008,

There is no current presidential contender that would--or could--ignore terrorism and let terrorists do as they please. As long as there is a healthy cadre of the hunt-'em-down-and-kill-'em school (and there seems to be no current shortage of members) sufficient demand will always be placed on the President to address the problem.

So no President is going to "run away". The issue is how a President will engage. I think that, if Obama is willing to authorize operations in Pakistan without Pakistani consent, he is clearly willing to engage. I'm hard-pressed to understand how he would do that but not also be engaged in a bombing of a US embassy.

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Sarge,

How useless is it to come here and praise policies that have not yet succeeded, may never succeed and have--in the meantime--likely resulted in an increase in world terrorism?

Madverts claims that Bush's approach to terrorism has amplified fundamental Islamic terror attacks. You draw the conclusion that Madverts means that we should lay down our arms.

How useless is it to mischaracterize what other people say?

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The bush administration has had their chance to work with the countries overseas and hasn't been able to stop attacks on our government." No they didn't and even before the failed invasion, very few Islamic run countries' leaders came out and condemned AQ, in fact, we have found more in favor than against. You can't talk peace with thugs. Say what you want about Bush, fine, but your wrong if you think he could have talked peace with them. The only peaceful method would have been to GIVE billions of dollars and then you would have criticized that.. Face it, you are a roaring spectator.

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your [sic] wrong if you think he (Bush) could have talked peace with them

Too bad he pulled us out of Afghanistan before the job was done. Can you imagine an Osama-bin-Laden-less world? I think of it each day.

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ossan, to use your logic i will respond. when bush was in office we had 2 attacks. before bush there was zero attacks.

honestly, bush and his cronies are idiots. i could have run this war btter. mistake after mistake and you keep supporting him? ww2 was only 5 years and we have been in iraq more than that. any new administration would be better.

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“The United States condemns this attack,” said spokesman Gordon Johndroe. “This attack is a reminder of the continuing threat we face from violent extremists both at home and abroad.”

Actually, Gord, it's a reminder that US policies have created more terrorists and terrorism than there ever were before.

Ossan: "Prior to Bush taking action, we had 2 attacks in the US, the WTC and Pentagon. After Bush took action we have had zero. Attacks by terrorsts in the US had been reduced to nothing."

I think you mean, 'prior to bush taking OFFICE there were ZERO attacks in the US' (by your logic, anyway). As such, attacks by terrorists in the US after bush and his policies came into play were increased at an extreme level (from zero). Now, add the number of countries that have joined the 'terror list' and, the exponential increase of terrorists and people who wish harm on the US and its citizens (and other countries of the world by proxy) and you can see the mess Bush and Co. created. Thanks for admitting it.

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Here's the real problem.

No matter what McvCain or Obama or even lameduck george bush does, these attacks aren't going to stop. Al-Quaeda is going to continue to attack Americans, Europeons, Australians or even other Muslims who disagree with their goal of being the dominate terrorist organization and they get their way by instilling fear in others. It's a game along with being a war.

McCain's swinging of little fist isn't going to stop anything. The one man in America that states I know how to win wars. Then for some reason John McCain failed to tell his twin in the Whitehouse how to win a war.

Maybe Obama's talking may not do anything in Yemen to stop Al-Quaeda.

So what's the choices?

Spend more money fighting an enemy that moves from one country to another, depending on where they can do the most damage and stir up more crap.

Or we can start talking, negotiating and quit our threatening ways.

We need friends all over the world. We need friends in Russia, we need friends in Afghanistan.

We need to get the hell out of Iraq, where we drew Al-Quaeda. We pissed off an entire country to the point that we pushed people into joining Al-Quaeda and taking up the insurgency.

We have numerous resourses tied up in Iraq that need to be protecting us and our properties. We have 130,000+ of troops that could be protecting our assets. But no, we're fighting george bush's war on terror.

We've lost so much in Iraq. We've lost so many military and civilians that never needed to be lost. So after we've put so much out to fight the george bush war on terror and the war isn't won in over 5 years and with Al-Quaeda attacking us at will, the bush administration saying anything at all is laughable.

So SuperLib, what is your solution? < :-)

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My mistake. So skipthesong, what's your solution? < :-)

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we pushed people into joining Al-Quaeda and taking up the insurgency." That's debatable. Least you not forget, OBL is probably one of the smartest people in the world and has more resources than many believe. He is like a Messiah for the poor and angry. As long as there will be poor people in the Islamic world, he'll get the resources necessary. Far too many of them have believe in a re-conquest and far too many of them believe in a god that only looks out for them. He knows just how to feed them. The only way to stop all this is to stop the teachings, like somehow the US has done and is still trying to do in schools - not allowed to pray, show support for god, nor use religious reasons for celebrating things and most of all, keep religion out of a governmental power.

'prior to bush taking OFFICE there were ZERO attacks in the US' " Yes, there were, were all you too young to remember 93? and if you take Islam out of the picture, what about Tim McVey?

Aday: I believe in fighting fire with fire! And, I believe in fighting until the finish. Never have I been drawn into a fight and then start helping the idiots, and I don't approach a discussion to talk about being friends, and if I did I sure as hell wouldn't ever let my guard down. I guess that is one of the reasons your kind is losing everything.

The peace lovers have the best idea, but unfortunately, I won't see it work in my lifetime. Hope my future generations do. But when I see the so called left call presidential candidates religous nuts yet talk how lovely Islam is, even though its the most right winging element we have on earth right now, I sometimes hope they win.

this bombing is nothing new to me. I am not going to start crying tears for the people who did this NOR will I look for excuses you and several others have for the people in a country that supports the idea of marrying off girls as young as 9 years old..... to provide rightwinging off spring.

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There is absolutely no way that any Iraqi citizen would ever have killed an American if we had not attacked the solvern country of Iraq. So explain to me how we pushed people into joining Al-Quaeda and taking up the insurgency. is debatable.

Whether they marry off their children at 9 years old is not my business. I may not like it and I may disagree fervently, but it's no reason for us to be having a war.

Whether it's Yemen or Australia or any where else, we are going to have people coming after us. This kind of war on terror isn't going to involve taking out countries, but working with those countries to reduce Al-Quaeda's successes. They will have successes, but not as many if we didn't work hard to prevent them.

Hey skipthesong, if it wasn't for the efforts of many many people not wearing a military uniform to stop most attacks on the US. Don't get me wrong, the military has been fighting one hell of a war brought on them by george bush, but the attacks stopped in the US or the attacks stopped at the British embassy is because of the non-uniformed types.

I'm glad that no Americans were hurt. I feel very much for the Yemen's that lost their life protecting out property. < :-)

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skipthesong said:

No they didn't and even before the failed invasion, very few Islamic run countries' leaders came out and condemned AQ, in fact, we have found more in favor than against.

I am not going to try to convince skip and the others who refuse to acknowledge the truth. There were many of us who were there to see the Arab leaders express their sympathy for the terrorist's actions on 9/11. I saw countless Muslims discredit any form of violence to promote Islam. Hate speech is often subtle these days. Anyone with half a brain knows they cannot advocate the killing of a race or all the member of a religion. So instead people like WilliB and skipthesong vilify and demonize the entire Muslim community over the actions of a few.

Like I said I cannot change the opinions of those who believe Muslims are practicing a religion of hate and can't wait to dispose of the other religions and nonbelievers. I do want to thank all the people who have learned to be tolerant. There are so many Non-Muslim posters on these threads who defend the majority of Muslims from the actions of the few. The people I am so grateful for sometimes have no god at all and many others have strong ties to or simply strong beliefs in a traditional faith. To all of you I want to recognize that you "get it." You understand that to have peace in the world it must start with the individual. And you are the individuals that will continue to spread peace.

Part of spreading peace will require endless arguing. Pushing tolerance is not easy. Opponents will give many reasons to hold the many accountable for the actions of the few. They will also say they are not the few that all or most Muslims for example are bent on violence. But I have seen people on here fight the good fight for years. Often the same people who defend the U.S. actions to fight their enemies in Afghanistan. So they are not promoting weakness by any means. They are looking at the truth and admitting that there are decent people in groups, that large amounts of their fellow citizens are saying are bad groups of people; like the Muslims. Most of the people supportive of tolerance also condemn the suppression of women and other practices under regimes that are rigid, archaic, and generally oppressive. We are accused of supporting such practices. But that is what is called throwing out a "red herring"; it is meant to distract the issue when we are trying to emphasize that we must be tolerant to solve the issues we face in this uncertain world.

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I have to say that I should be careful about lumping skip with WilliB. I hope that skip is for getting rid of religion in public education and government and less for getting rid of the Muslim religion. I hope that skip recognizes we can't do that in other countries like Saudi Arabia. It would be great but it isn't going to happen. The best we can hope for is not to be seen as the enemy to these militants. I hope that I misunderstand skip and that he doesn't hate Muslims or even hate the Islamic religion. I was unhappy during the period immediately following 9/11 where people were angry at Muslims and wanted revenge. It took me a long time to realize that is just how some people deal with a tragedy like that and that many of them would not harm a Muslim if they were given the opportunity to do so and not get caught. I do see a difference in WilliB; he is unrelenting in his claims that the Islamic religion is evil and wants nothing less than the destruction of all other people. Hopefully skip is not of this mentality and if that is true then I did not mean to mischaracterize him. But when he makes the statement that no Muslims condemned the terrorist actions of 9/11, like I quoted him as saying, it closely resembles hate speech.

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goodDonkey: "Hopefully skip is not of this mentality and if that is true then I did not mean to mischaracterize him. But when he makes the statement that no Muslims condemned the terrorist actions of 9/11, like I quoted him as saying, it closely resembles hate speech."

You're bang on with your comments here, and unfortunately you haven't mischaracterized skip at all. He has flat out said he is not opposed to the death of ALL Muslims, and has openly called Islam the source of all ill in the world, etc., which is indeed hate speech. It's a shame, because otherwise he has some decent posts from time to time.

Basically, in respect to Islam and Muslims in general, skip follows the same idiotic mentality as many in the US, and sadly the world (largely thanks to the US!), that Muslim=terrorist; and they don't realize that by saying things that 'all muslims should die and the world would be better' that they are the very things they pretend to abhor. In other words, not only is such language 'hate speech', it is the very root of terrorism and evil itself. Again, sadly, the hypocrisy is lost on many here.

Anyway,

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when he makes the statement that no Muslims condemned the terrorist actions of 9/11" leaders, and I ain't talking about some paid politicians nor diplomats, I am talking about the real leaders in those countries, the ones with the power - the clerics.

Personally, I think religion needs to be the thing of the past. All religions have had their hands in governments, wars, and impeding of science.

I have also have to state, I seen posters here condemning my speech as hate speech, and one in particular who will go out of his way, calling Christians in the US nut cases, yet paints a picture of forever peaceful Muslims. You want to call it hate, Yet, every time I have asked people who claim to be of the left, please provide a listing of difference between Islam in its stregnth agaisnt those of the Nazis.

No one here can prove to me that people who follow Islam to the hilt are prepared, desire, nor can even find a middle ground in living amonst us infidels. For the particular posters, I don't notice if you condemned me if I said let's kill kkk and their kids too. Nor did you condemn me when I said Nazi Germany should also have had an A Bomb dropped on them..... I sometimes feel many shout support for Islam simply because they hate Bush. For GD: Firstly, I have attended several NOI events in Chicago back in the day, thus I have been on the extending hand side. I haven't seen that come back and also notably the disappointment of my father's race; but still I have had friends who were Muslim, but never once did they try to dictate my ways.

Before GWB screwed this up, I was down with the fight against Muslims, sure. I was down with jumping skin heads too (and I have) at bus stops.

For Aday: You say its none of you business that in Yemen a girl of 9 can be married off and its none of you business, but lets' say if a populace in say the bible belt wished to ban abortion, teach that creative junk, and forbid pre-marital sex you would be yapping via your keyboard board so hard that you would probably break it in two... But, you are correct in a sense that its none of your business, but what if they populated your area enough where they pushed for that - because they are pushing their ways on many outside their lands... You can say in places such as Yemen where terrorist have grown in size is the fault of the US but I can equally say the seed was planted long long ago and all this really did was open the Pandora's box - its always been there.

Smitty, the only person following any idiotic mentality is you with your self hating self. Hate yourself so much that you need to find an excuse to be acceptable. Then you go on and paint this picture "sadly teh world.." that you are some sort of a wise man and you know something that most in the world doesn't?

Again, sadly, the hypocrisy is lost on many here" Just yesterday you called a candidate a religious nut... yet defend the actions of a great many Muslims, yes, the hypocrisy is just amazing.

Again, I wait to be proved wrong that Nazis, KKK and Fanatical Muslims are not the same.

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Let's use skip's post as a shining example of hypocrisy!

'we pushed people into joining Al-Quaeda and taking up the insurgency." That's debatable. Least you not forget, OBL is probably one of the smartest people in the world and has more resources than many believe.'

Not debatable at all; it's fact. What's more, lest we forget who TRAINED OBL in the first place, as a lackey for more American dirty work. Okay, so that part isn't so much pointing out the hypocrisy as it is 'teaching' the facts.

"He is like a Messiah for the poor and angry. As long as there will be poor people in the Islamic world, he'll get the resources necessary. Far too many of them have believe in a re-conquest and far too many of them believe in a god that only looks out for them. He knows just how to feed them."

Funny, I don't usually call American military recruiters 'Messiah' (nor does anyone, to my knowledge), but they practice the exact same things you preach here -- target the poor and/or not so smart to go off and fight, both for food and 'for honour'.

"The only way to stop all this is to stop the teachings, like somehow the US has done and is still trying to do in schools - not allowed to pray, show support for god, nor use religious reasons for celebrating things and most of all, keep religion out of a governmental power."

I agree with you here, IN PART, but am using this quotation as a means to point out to some on here the hypocrisy in thinking that by electing McCain/Palin this kind of thing will 'stop terrorism'. Does anyone think that by electing McCain/Palin skip's notion of eliminating religion from government and schools will occur? Polar opposite, my friends! Palin is a radical Christian, and while I've no doubt she would attempt to limit any religion that is not hers, from government to schools, she would easily pander to the desires of some to reinstitute the Lord's prayer in schools (ie. make it mandatory for ALL to say!), take out any methods of birth control and/or sex ed., etc. And limiting it from governmental affairs??? Come on! This is a woman who says Iraq is god's work!

And while I agree with skip that the 'teachings' should be limited in school, I don't think anything should be banned. In fact, I think people should be taught to RESPECT others' religions, and learn more about them... through awareness. When I went to the nearby international airport the other day, I was deeply impressed to see that they had recently added a 'Prayer Room' for those who wish to enter and pray (granted it was due to an increase in Emirate flights directly to the UAE, but at least they are being accomodating). They CANNOT ban Muslims from praying when they are 'supposed to'. Likewise, while they cannot ask ALL people to recite the Christian Lord's prayer, they cannot, I believe, ask those who wish to do so to NOT do so (although there is no set time for it, so they CAN ask them not to do it during class, etc., if it's disruptive). Throw in some Buddhism and Judaism for spice, and let them all try to learn a little. The idea that providing an open forum for people to learn about Islam is akin to creating a terrorist cell is ludicrous, and results in the same kind of fear and hypocrisy that pushes terrorists to target such attacks on themselves.

''prior to bush taking OFFICE there were ZERO attacks in the US' " Yes, there were, were all you too young to remember 93? and if you take Islam out of the picture, what about Tim McVey?'

Go back and reread my post, skip! I was pointing out how Ossan's 'black and white' view of things since Bush took office can easily be spun against him (and even said, in brackets, after that which you quoted, "according to your logic"). In other words, read a little more carefully before you post on someone else's comments, and especially if quoting them.

"I believe in fighting fire with fire! And, I believe in fighting until the finish. Never have I been drawn into a fight and then start helping the idiots, and I don't approach a discussion to talk about being friends, and if I did I sure as hell wouldn't ever let my guard down. I guess that is one of the reasons your kind is losing everything."

Wow... HATE ALERT!!! 'Your kind', eh skip? Instead of using 'your kind' as to stereotyping a group of people, which you love to do, I'll use it in the sense of 'type', as in your 'type of argument' is what sets the world at war, and why NO ONE ever wins... especially those who consider being open to options other than war as 'backing down'.

"The peace lovers have the best idea, but unfortunately, I won't see it work in my lifetime."

Not with that attitude, granted, because opposed to the 'peace lovers', or 'our kind', there are the warmongers, who won't allow the peace lovers, for various reasons, to prevail.

"Hope my future generations do. But when I see the so called left call presidential candidates religous nuts yet talk how lovely Islam is, even though its the most right winging element we have on earth right now, I sometimes hope they win."

This argument just doesn't make sense.... you sometimes hope WHO will win? the 'left' which you make the subject of the sentence? Anyway, I think you misdirect your bias to make an attempt at understanding Islam and being open-minded as embracing it and Allah as our god. Hell, I'm not Christian/Jew/Muslim or anything else but Buddhist, but I would gladly learn about any and all of them without necessarily espousing any of their views. Respect them? sure! How else are we going to survive? (and no, skip, NOT by wiping out the Muslims!) Calling the righties religious nuts is, granted, quite strong if not justified, but I don't think anyone who says Palin, for example, or Bush, for a better one, is a religious nut would turn around and set up an altar for the 9/11 terrorists. I think it would be more apt to say that those people believe ANYONE who misuses ANY religion to fob off their responsibility and launch war is a radical; but that does not make ALL Muslims so, nor does it make people opposed to radical Christians in government automatically embrace Islam!! When will you learn this!?

"this bombing is nothing new to me. I am not going to start crying tears for the people who did this NOR will I look for excuses you and several others have for the people in a country that supports the idea of marrying off girls as young as 9 years old..... to provide rightwinging off spring."

Again, misunderstanding leads to hate, skip. I just as easily use this mentality to group all people under banners in other areas, for example: all Chinese are communists, as are Cubans, VEnezuelans, and North Koreans, and love their leaders and would die for them. All Jews want all Muslims to die, and vice-versa, etc. etc. but I would be utterly wrong, and utterly stupid to actually believe such things.

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skip: Thanks... while I was writing my post, you submitted yours... not surprisingly, you prove my every point.

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I have equally never noticed smitty ever condeming the hate speech coming out of London these days by Muslims there against the the Brits. I never once seen any posts where smitty condemns fatwas by major leaders, in fact, I have seen posts where said leaders have every right to everything in the US on their visits.

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skip: "Smitty, the only person following any idiotic mentality is you with your self hating self. Hate yourself so much that you need to find an excuse to be acceptable. Then you go on and paint this picture "sadly teh world.." that you are some sort of a wise man and you know something that most in the world doesn't?"

Sorry... I'm laughing too much to let this one go. I don't hate myself at all, bud... this is another clear-cut example of misdirecting your feelings onto another (and as if to prove it, you lament your days of 'bashing Nazi skinheads at bus stops'! Sorry skip, but that's not only criminal, but it's hatred to the core.... oh... and that doesn't mean I'm sympathizing with skinheads, either, in case you need to be further informed).

What's more, my friend, it's YOU who has been crying out, more than usual, 'Why are we sniping at each other like this? Why is the world like this?' and in the VERY SAME BREATH saying, "you are all Nazis who think this or that!" espousing the very hatred you pretend to lament... which, finally, and again and again, proves just how much it is YOU who is the hypocrite, skippy... simply saying 'I know you are but what am I' doesn't cut it; you have proven yourself wrong, full of self-loathing and hateful acts, and just plain inability to even try to empathize.

When are you going to learn that not liking one things does not necessarily mean you LOVE another? Clearly you hate Islam... you have said it again and again in hateful speech and even said you are down to bashing them, etc., but where do I say that means you automatically LOVE Christians? Where? I didn't. In fact, I go out of my way in my last post to agree with you on certain common elements of religion and teachings.

But, let's wrap up this by pointing out how, again, you defeat yourself and your own arguments with your hatred and intolerance:

"...I don't notice if you condemned me if I said let's kill kkk and their kids too. Nor did you condemn me when I said Nazi Germany should also have had an A Bomb dropped on them....."

Nicely put, skip.

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skip: "I have equally never noticed smitty ever condeming the hate speech coming out of London these days by Muslims there against the the Brits."

I condemn it. There. Show me a thread on here that talks about it, skip, I'll gladly go on and condemn it there, too.

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skip: "I never once seen any posts where smitty condemns fatwas by major leaders, in fact, I have seen posts where said leaders have every right to everything in the US on their visits."

I condemn anyone who favours all-out attacks on countries, their religions, and their peoples, bottom line; be they Americans, MEasterners, Japanese, or even Cubans. And since when is attacking a sovereign nation with no grounds called a 'visit'? Show me where I said such and I'll gladly retract it with an apology. Until then... keep them wheels spinning in the mud!

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What we are simply witnessing here is a religion being hijacked by a few idiots and nothing more. In this case, they simply ended up blowing and ripping themselves up. How stupid can one be?

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Proffessor: "What we are simply witnessing here is a religion being hijacked by a few idiots and nothing more."

Thank you for stating it in so few words, where many of us, in particular myself among them, have lacked in brevity. Anyway, as said, I hope people can recognize it for what you say.

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It gets harder and harder to pimp for the Jihadis, doesnt it smith. In one week its been Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Nigeria and Yemen. Best to fall back on accusing everyone who disagrees with us as racists and try and silence them that way. Keep the faith. Fight the power, man.

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Alinksy: "In one week its been Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Nigeria and Yemen. Best to fall back on accusing everyone who disagrees with us as racists and try and silence them that way. Keep the faith. Fight the power,"

I love the 'who disagrees with us' part, as though you have anything more credible to offer under this... what... 8th recent handle than you did under your most infamous one that lasted for near a year or so. In other words, your record speaks for itself.

For the record, again, I don't support terrorism at all... and that includes the US doing whatever it wants, wherever, and then spinning it as though they are the victims. These people in Yemen who tried to bomb the embassy were scum, bottom line, and their actions prove it. But some of the comments by Gordon are laughable at best, and are EXTREMELY hypocritical to say the least. Why 'you' seem to see everything so one-sidedly is beyond fathomable for most, and what lands you guys in trouble every time.

Be sure to keep the faith yourself, amigo. I'd say 'fight the power' too, but you're usually not around long enough. Peace out.

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But some of the comments by Gordon are laughable at best, and are EXTREMELY hypocritical to say the least.

Dont I know it! LAughable, and EXTREMELY hypocritical. To say the leastest. Thats why like you I will continue to capitalize Osama Bin Laden even as I REFUSE to capitalize the name of any repub or tory or conservative. We need to show solidarity with our oppressed Muslim brothers.

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What we are simply witnessing here is a religion being hijacked by a few idiots and nothing more." Ok, so since there are so few, who are they? How did they get there? The religion wasn't hijacked, its more like religion hijacked common sense.

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" “This attack is a reminder of the continuing threat we face from violent extremists both at home and abroad.” "

Extremists of what? They are still refusing to address the issue. There is not "extreme" about the the Jihadists who blew up the embassy. They are simply serious believers, acting on the command to fight the kuffars until they submit.

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Professor:

" What we are simply witnessing here is a religion being hijacked by a few idiots and nothing more "

Gee, but it is pretty easy to hijack, isn´t it? And just how was this religion before it was "hijacked"? It was founded by a warlord who kept slaves, had a harem, ordered raids and murder, and personally led over 30 wars. Where do you think the swords in Saudi Arabias flag come from?

Tell us what there is sans the "hijacking".

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Let's use skip's post as a shining example of hypocrisy!

'we pushed people into joining Al-Quaeda and taking up the insurgency." That's debatable. Least you not forget, OBL is probably one of the smartest people in the world and has more resources than many believe.'

Not debatable at all; it's fact. What's more, lest we forget who TRAINED OBL in the first place, as a lackey for more American dirty work" He was up to the fight and we didn't train him, just gave him more cash. no one needed to train him, he was born for this as he knows jihad, which ever day it falls on, is his duty

Funny, I don't usually call American military recruiters 'Messiah' (nor does anyone, to my knowledge), but they practice the exact same things you preach here -- target the poor and/or not so smart to go off and fight, both for food and 'for honour'." Ah, so everyone who joins up is stupid... what do you call cops then? Anyway, you actual agree with me that the people blowing themselves up are stupid and blinded by some religous goal.. Thanks,

"The only way to stop all this is to stop the teachings, like somehow the US has done and is still trying to do in schools - not allowed to pray, show support for god, nor use religious reasons for celebrating things and most of all, keep religion out of a governmental power."

I agree with you here, IN PART, but am using this quotation as a means to point out to some on here the hypocrisy in thinking that by electing McCain/Palin this kind of thing will 'stop terrorism'. Does anyone think that by electing McCain/Palin skip's notion of eliminating religion from government and schools will occur? Polar opposite, my friends! Palin is a radical Christian, and while I've no doubt she would attempt to limit any religion that is not hers, from government to schools, she would easily pander to the desires of some to reinstitute the Lord's prayer in schools (ie. make it mandatory for ALL to say!), take out any methods of birth control and/or sex ed., etc. And limiting it from governmental affairs??? Come on! This is a woman who says Iraq is god's work!"

Where did I say I will vote for McCain? Excuse me, but I know I have been advocating a third party.. and with me running in 2012!

And while I agree with skip that the 'teachings' should be limited in school, I don't think anything should be banned." Then we are stuck with it, whether we agree or disagree. Ban it. Any school that teacher the world is screwed up because some chick eats an apple should be burned to the ground as far as I am concerned (no, I do not mean that litterally, but if it was burning down, I don't think I'd be fetching any water).

In fact, I think people should be taught to RESPECT others' religions" Ok, this is great.... please, let your hatred for me die for the moment and inform me, that you know of, what religion teaches respect for the next kind while advocating theirs as the "true one"

, and learn more about them... through awareness. When I went to the nearby international airport the other day, I was deeply impressed to see that they had recently added a 'Prayer Room' for those who wish to enter and pray (granted it was due to an increase in Emirate flights directly to the UAE, but at least they are being accomodating). They CANNOT ban Muslims from praying when they are 'supposed to'. Likewise, while they cannot ask ALL people to recite the Christian Lord's prayer, they cannot, I believe, ask those who wish to do so to NOT do so (although there is no set time for it, so they CAN ask them not to do it during class, etc., if it's disruptive). Throw in some Buddhism and Judaism for spice, and let them all try to learn a little. The idea that providing an open forum for people to learn about Islam is akin to creating a terrorist cell is ludicrous, and results in the same kind of fear and hypocrisy that pushes terrorists to target such attacks on themselves." I can't say one bad thing about Buddhism. Nothing at all. Sorry about that. Hope I didn't disappoint you.

''prior to bush taking OFFICE there were ZERO attacks in the US' " Yes, there were, were all you too young to remember 93? and if you take Islam out of the picture, what about Tim McVey?'

Go back and reread my post, skip! I was pointing out how Ossan's 'black and white' view of things since Bush took office can easily be spun against him (and even said, in brackets, after that which you quoted, "according to your logic"). In other words, read a little more carefully before you post on someone else's comments, and especially if quoting them." oh, apesadumbrado. Debo haber entendido mal.

"I believe in fighting fire with fire! And, I believe in fighting until the finish. Never have I been drawn into a fight and then start helping the idiots, and I don't approach a discussion to talk about being friends, and if I did I sure as hell wouldn't ever let my guard down. I guess that is one of the reasons your kind is losing everything." " Wow... HATE ALERT!!! 'Your kind', eh skip?" Hey man, not sure where you are from, but that's acceptable. If you don't like it, go cry to Hollywood.

Instead of using 'your kind' as to stereotyping a group of people, which you love to do, I'll use it in the sense of 'type', as in your 'type of argument' is what sets the world at war, and why NO ONE ever wins... especially those who consider being open to options other than war as 'backing down'." If you really know of a workable choice, let us in on it.

"The peace lovers have the best idea, but unfortunately, I won't see it work in my lifetime."

Not with that attitude, granted, because opposed to the 'peace lovers', or 'our kind', there are the warmongers, who won't allow the peace lovers, for various reasons, to prevail." u call me a warmonger? I've never threatened anyone with war.

"Hope my future generations do. But when I see the so called left call presidential candidates religous nuts yet talk how lovely Islam is, even though its the most right winging element we have on earth right now, I sometimes hope they win."

This argument just doesn't make sense.... you sometimes hope WHO will win?" Muslims, so you can live under it rules and decrees. No more Roppongi Hills for you.

Hell, I'm not Christian/Jew/Muslim or anything else but Buddhist," Well, if they win, that will have to change.

but I would gladly learn about any and all of them without necessarily espousing any of their views." Don't believe you. Respect them? sure!" No, you won't, you even went as far as saying something to the effect that we should be afraid of Christians and not Muslims.

How else are we going to survive? (and no, skip, NOT by wiping out the Muslims!) I do not know how many times you brought that up, but yo, I don't recall calling for their extermination but I will admit, those who follow those Nazi ways, the ones who use the idea of marrying off 9 year olds in Yemen, yeah, wipe them out. not saying I would do it though.

Calling the righties religious nuts is, granted, quite strong if not justified, but I don't think anyone who says Palin, for example, or Bush, for a better one, is a religious nut would turn around and set up an altar for the 9/11 terrorists." You kind of contridicted yourself here I think. First of all, I don't think either of them are really believers as much as they say they are, but the down on their luck types like, similar to muslims, believe there is a god they can pray to tht will lead them to the promise land. Who am I to say there is no such thing? Well, who is anyone to say one wasn't abducted by aliens?

I think it would be more apt to say that those people believe ANYONE who misuses ANY religion to fob off their responsibility and launch war is a radical; but that does not make ALL Muslims so, nor does it make people opposed to radical Christians in government automatically embrace Islam!! When will you learn this!?"

When you do.

"this bombing is nothing new to me. I am not going to start crying tears for the people who did this NOR will I look for excuses you and several others have for the people in a country that supports the idea of marrying off girls as young as 9 years old..... to provide rightwinging off spring."

Again, misunderstanding leads to hate, skip. I just as easily use this mentality to group all people under banners in other areas, for example: all Chinese are communists, as are Cubans, VEnezuelans, and North Koreans, and love their leaders and would die for them. All Jews want all Muslims to die, and vice-versa, etc. etc. but I would be utterly wrong, and utterly stupid to actually believe such things." and yet, you still preach to the crowds here that I am some type of hating monster who desires to kill wontonly.

Look, until 9-11 (I even gave a pass to 93, 88, and 79) I really never even thought about Islam at all, except for some of my friends in Chicago. But their type uses more of a race method to obtain people and I wasn't down with that.

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Islam has always been a radical political movement as well as a religion, and it only our modern ignorance that makes us forget that. Islamic "clerics" are quite clear about what they want: The establishment of the 9th Caliphate (or the 1st Imamate, in case of the Shiites). That is a politcal goal, any way you turn it.

The US government (both parties) keeps digging its own grave by misunderstanding the modern jihad as a problem of a few "extremists" who have "hijacked" a peaceful "religion". This is simply wishful thinking.

These Yemeni bombers have "hijacked" islam as much as Stalin "hijacked" peaceful communism. They are taking it seriously, that is all they do.

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Sorry skip, but that's not only criminal, but it's hatred to the core.... oh... and that doesn't mean I'm sympathizing with skinheads, either, in case you need to be further informed)."

Whoa, now you gonna on my case about that... man, there is no satisfying you, is there? JIC, u a lady or are you just young?

Willi, you hit something here and I really wish some here would get it. One poster stated the religion had been hijacked and that we should not blame the whole crew. Ok, fine if you want, but you are right in pointing out that modern Jihad is not just a passing item with the Bush presidency. And Smitty is gonna be all over me, but I think we are in for a much bigger fight than many believe and I also believe that having all these people come to their defense like one poster is part of the plan.

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Superlib,

"Perhaps Adverts can fill us in?"

Hey there's no need to get up-tight because I'm pointing out the truth mate. The so-called war on terror has increased global suicide bombings and has heightened the risk of heinous attacks on American civillians and American interests both at home and abroad.

I'm so sorry some people don't like hearing the truth.

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The so-called war on terror has increased global suicide bombings and has heightened the risk of heinous attacks on American civillians and American interests both at home and abroad.

I've long felt that the violence in India and the Sudan and Algeria and Afghanistan and and Pakistan and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and Kuwait and Ethiopia and Iran and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Tanzania and Germany and Australia and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and China and Nepal and the Maldives and Argentina and Angola was all directly related to my country's misguided war on 'terror', which is little more than a war on teh religion of peace(that name for Islam is the only thing that bush ever got right!).

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skip: "And Smitty is gonna be all over me, but I think we are in for a much bigger fight than many believe and I also believe that having all these people come to their defense like one poster is part of the plan."

I'm not 'all over you' on this at all, just attacking your arguments as being that which you pretend to hate so much -- which smacks of insecurity.

I actually agree with you... I think that 'we' (questionable whom we are speaking of) ARE in for a much bigger fight than many believe. Where we differ is as to why; with my opinion being that intolerance, by it's very nature, can never cease to exist simply by decision. That goes for your intolerance, the intolerance of radical Islamists for viewpoints other than their own, intolerance of ANYTHING! As ideal as you may wish for things to be by saying, "We should just eliminate all religions", there is no way in hell it's going to happen without many fighting tooth and nail to protect it, regardless of the religion they're fighting for.

Now, before you try and back that up with the logic that 'that's exactly why it should be eliminated', keep in mind that religion is belief... and by saying you 'believe all religions should be eliminated', you really aren't acting any differently than a jihadist who says all his enemies should cease to exist. You clearly adhere to your beliefs as strongly as any person who is part of a religion, and even fringe on the radical in many of your posts.

Regardless, putting it all on some kind of external locus of control and saying, "We're going to be in for a bigger fight than we think" while attempting nothing to prevent it, or believing there's nothing you can do... well, son... you're setting yourself up for your own fall.

Anyway, I do apologize for the strong tone I've taken in a lot of my posts here against you, today in particular, but you've really got to take a good look and see that your attitude towards one particular group, and your 'solution' for it, are really no different than what that group proposes towards people like yourself. I'm not telling you to go to the local mosque and embrace Islam, skip... not at all... I'm certainly not going to... but I am telling you that ignorance and hatred breed more of the same. You don't have to be 'down with Islam' to realize that not all of Muslims are radicals.

Anyway, next time you quote me on something, try not to paste the WHOLE post (in fact, in your last entry NONE of mine would have sufficed). With that, have a nice day... go let off some steam (in a positive manner).

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The origins of al-Qaeda can be traced back to 1979 when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. Soon after the invasion, Osama bin Laden traveled to Afghanistan where he helped organize Arab mujahideen and established the Maktab al-Khidamat (MAK) organization to resist the Soviets. In 1989, as the Soviets withdrew, MAK was transformed into a "rapid reaction force" in jihad against governments across the Muslim world. Under the guidance of Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden became more radical.[82] In 1996, bin Laden issued his first fatwā which called for American soldiers to leave Saudi Arabia.[83]

In a second fatwā issued in 1998, bin Laden outlined his objections to American foreign policy towards Israel, as well as the continued presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War.[84] Bin Laden used Islamic texts to exhort violent action against American military and citizenry until the stated grievances are reversed, noting "ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries."[84]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

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Heh, uhm, alinsky,

Cut and paste as much as you want. The fact remains that suicide bombings are UP, largely due to the brain-childs of idiots that thought they could wage war on an ideology.

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allinsky: That many places are in the mix?

smitty: I ain't talking about elimination of religion by killing people.

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skip: "smitty: I ain't talking about elimination of religion by killing people."

I know that, but what you've got to realize (what I was saying) is that your reason for wanting to eliminate religion is based on the trouble caused by radicals. We're not talking about fence-sitters who might be swayed into another system of beliefs -- we're talking about the die-hard radicals. There's NO WAY, out of all the people you might be able to get to give something up, that you will do them... particularly by means of threats. It would take something absolutely cataclysmic for their beliefs to be shattered, and usually it's not in a positive manner, and not for the better good. 9/11 for example, probably turned more than a few distraught relatives away from God, and likely pushed some towards him/her as well. Likewise with Allah -- I'm sure, and I know this might be tough for you to believe, there were MANY Muslims who questioned or outright condemned the motives of the murderers of that day; and likewise others who were suddenly swayed into joining the cause.

Again, eliminating religion to make a 'peaceful planet' will never happen... the people it's very ingrained in would never give it up -- regardless of what that religion is.

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Mad: "The fact remains that suicide bombings are UP, largely due to the brain-childs of idiots that thought they could wage war on an ideology."

Look, if you want to use stats, we can go around in circles forever. These people have a goal and they have had that goal for a long time. The US has had problems with the Islamic world since the day the US decided to back Israel (sorry, but I still can not get over the fact how tiny the place and how much significance in modern history it has). People blamed Carter, Regan was blamed, Bush went a step further with Iraq and Clinton did to with Somalia and Bosnia and in other parts of the world people are even going as far as blaming Russia with Chechenya.

I would rather say, it is more to do with timing. GWB came in when it was time to blow up, otherwise, what was 93 all about? What was the Cole about? and the list goes on and on. Face it, it was a and always has been a bad genie in a bottle.

And yet, the US government, with the increase in suicide bombings still as you say, has managed to shell out record numbers of cash to these people I sometimes feel we are funding the enemy's side...

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It would take something absolutely cataclysmic for their beliefs to be shattered, and usually it's not in a positive manner, and not for the better good. 9/11 for example, probably turned more than a few distraught relatives away from God, and likely pushed some towards him/her as well. Likewise with Allah -- I'm sure, and I know this might be tough for you to believe, there were MANY Muslims who questioned or outright condemned the motives of the murderers of that day; and likewise others who were suddenly swayed into joining the cause."

I like this post. I do. One thing here: "something absolutely cataclysmic for their beliefs to be shattered" You are not going to like this answer, but how about that cataclysmic approach by done in the same manner in which got so many into religion in the first place? At this moment, right now, I do not see any other alternative and I do, really do, hope I am wrong.

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Skip,

"Look, if you want to use stats, we can go around in circles forever."

How so?

The stats prove that the so-called war on terror has done nothing but ceate it. Iraq is a shambles and no a terrorist playground, Afghanistan is no better off and the outrage towards non-muslim'sfrom the Islamists in this perceived war against their faith worldwide has increased exponentialy...

"And yet, the US government, with the increase in suicide bombings still as you say, has managed to shell out record numbers of cash to these people I sometimes feel we are funding the enemy's side..."

More than funding Skip:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/aug/06/usa.iraq

If idiots, and I repeat, inept idiots had not been in charge of this so-called war on terror, something might have been achieved.

But idiots were in charge, and not acting in the interests of eliminating terrorism - they wanted to sell lots more arms in companies where Bush's daddy holds stock, and have a strategic advantage over world oil reserves.

The blowback, I promise, will be eternal throughout our lifetimes.

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