Army psychiatrist kills 12, wounds 31 in shooting rampage at Fort Hood in Texas

I can comprehend the act of a single crazed gunman, but several acting in concert like this is hard to accept. What in heaven's name is going on?

From a related story on CNN:

Suicide rate among soldiers continues at a record pace.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/06/11/us.army.suicides/index.html#cnnSTCText

I can comprehend the act of a single crazed gunman, but several acting in concert like this is hard to accept.

It may have only been one shooter. The other two may have been trying to take him and down and....missed.

What in heaven's name is going on?

Oh, lets see...a futile attempt at nation building in Afghanistan, a war in Iraq that never should have started, both going on longer than U.S. involvement in WWII, soldiers having their tours summarily extended and unfit soldiers being enlisted because the population just won't sit for a draft for many of the above reasons.

Frankly I am surprised it does not happen more often!

a futile attempt at nation building in Afghanistan, a war in Iraq that never should have started, both going on longer than U.S. involvement in WWII

And with no foreseeable end in sight. (Didn't one of the candidates say it might require a century?)

I can see how that would breed certain desperation in many.

Well the good news numbskull is that very very few of the soldiers enlisted are unfit. It is amazing at how much it has been exaggerated that the US has a significant amount of unfit soldiers enlisted in the US military.

To be honest yabits I don't think the increasing suicide rate has anything to do with motivating this soldier and the two other suspects to kill fellow soldiers, its important to note that 133 suicides out of a military force that is over 3 million strong is a small number. However though it is good to see that the US military is taking suicides a lot more seriously for the past several years.

The Iraq war has an end in sight, the Afghan war is really taking one of the poorest nations in the world and one of the least developed nations in the world and rebuilding it during a time of war. So it will take a long time.

The candidate that you are referring to meant that it would take a century if you will to effectively build Afghanistan to modern day standards. They were not saying active combat/war would last an entire century.

I don't want to sound alarmist, but this looks like jihadists have infiltrated the US army.

"A law enforcement official identified the shooting suspect as Army Maj Malik Nadal Hasan."

Why does the United States of America continue to take the head-in-the-sand approach that such so-called diversity is good and creates an inclusive society when in reality it is divisive and facilitates exclusivity?

I would like to believe that President Barack Obama will take this massacre seriously and talk sincerely about the above problems, instead of making a mockery of things like he did with the "BeerGate Summit".

What a horrific tragedy. The longer I'm back in the U.S., the more I fear for the future of this once-great nation.

The guy was a doctor!

Why does the United States of America continue to take the head-in-the-sand approach that such so-called diversity is good and creates an inclusive society

Maybe its because when you have all the diversity we have in the U.S. military, one incident like this does not make an epidemic. I cannot say exactly how much it doesn't happen, but I can tell you it doesn't happen a whole lot more than it does happen.

Well the good news numbskull is that very very few of the soldiers enlisted are unfit.

Your idea of "unfit" and mine might be quite different. When I see poor teenagers of low IQ signing up for the paycheck, I don't consider that person fit. But if fitness was how good a cog he will make in the greed war machine, then yeah, poor teenagers of low intelligence fit the bill. Then we have the case of accepting disgruntled wannabe Muslims...and I suspect he was a wannabe in so many ways.

This is very sad and am withholding comments until the Army finishes its investigation. We need to keep our thoughts to the families of the deceased and those who were wounded.

Officials say it was not clear what Hasan’s religion was, but investigators are trying to determine if Hasan was his birth name or if he may have changed his name and converted to Islam at some point.

Why must these tragedies always revolve around a religion. Get over it. Islam is not the devil. Look at what is being done by a "Christian" country throughout the world. As YuriOtani said, focus on the families and soldiers affected, get over your 9-11 hatred for anyone that is mildly different from your white America.

My condolences to the families of the victims.

With all the US is mired in in terms of wars, it's easy to understand how someone could snap and do this kind of thing. Unforgiveable, and unfathomable how someone can commit the act, but WHY they snap? I'm just a little surprised the guy was a doctor.

I agree with pathat that it's a shame investigators had to immediately release the name to the media and suggest there are possible terrorist ties, and not just leave it to the fact that the US is a multi-cultural nation, but we know they have to shirk as much blame as possible and take focus of the issues while they can. It's already working in getting some of the above posters paranoid.

A law enforcement official identified the shooting suspect as Army Maj Malik Nadal Hasan.

The last person you'd expect to bat for the other team.

I don't want to sound alarmist, but this looks like jihadists have infiltrated the US army.

I think "jihadists ideas" is a more appropriate term. I don't think they are sending in sleeper agents ala Tom Clancy just yet. If they were, that would be an awful lot of planning and work just to kill some unfortunate soldiers with a couple handguns. You'd think they would be able to plan something bigger.

I suspect this was a combination of "jihadist ideas" and just the normal "snapping nutter" syndrome.

"Maybe its because when you have all the diversity we have in the U.S. military, one incident like this does not make an epidemic."

True, but the news reports I've just seen on the major U.S. networks lead me to believe that the you-know-what is going to hit the fan about religion in this case.

According to NBC, Hasan was "outspoken" in his criticism of the upcoming deployment to the Middle East for his unit. We'll see what comes out in the coming days, but I think this country is going to be forced to finally come to grips with the above issues, instead of taking the politically correct easy road and ignore them.

"I cannot say exactly how much it doesn't happen, but I can tell you it doesn't happen a whole lot more than it does happen."

This is a numbskull statement.

"Why must these tragedies always revolve around a religion. Get over it. Islam is not the devil."

Not saying Islam is the devil, but if religious belief was at the core of what made this man snap and commit mass murder, then it needs to be discussed openly and frankly without fear of recrimination, something that all too often in the past couple of decades or so Americans have not been able to do.

"Look at what is being done by a "Christian" country throughout the world."

I have and the view has been a sickening one this decade. But for a soldier to commit mass murder against his own is no way to make a political statement against something you don't believe in.

Not the best news on a Friday morning. Sympathies to those killed and wounded.

On a related topic, I am somewhat worried about the ease with which people under treatment get access to weapons in the US army. Firstly you had that chap in Iraq, and now you have this orifice who was obviously a few rounds short of a full magazine (excuse the metaphor).

America is in terminal decline, even the Army can't hold it together any more.

But for a soldier to commit mass murder against his own is no way to make a political statement against something you don't believe in.

I am not so sure. The farce in the M.E. has been going on a long time. People are dying over there while most of us sit all comfy at home and others get to run around in foreign lands well equipped, well armed and well fed, bombing and shooting people. Just when is it appropriate for the chickens to come home to roost? Next time, maybe a date can be set so that we can all know the time frame? Would be the 8 years of endurance since Afghanistan or the 6 years since Iraq? Just how patient is patient enough before you start to expect patience to evaporate and this sort of thing to start happening?

And it remains amazing that Islam is being judged by individuals while our mostly Christian nation continues ridiculous wars in the M.E.! Is this some sort of a joke?

Since this guy was a doctor and felt so strongly about the war against Muslims, why didn't he just pack his bag and go to the ME and provide his medical skills?

[I agree with pathat that it's a shame investigators had to immediately release the name to the media and suggest there are possible terrorist ties, and not just leave it to the fact that the US is a multi-cultural nation,]

No it's just that they released the name of the individual responsible. Get over your own paranoia Richard.

Anyone that holds radical religious beliefs over the belief in their country should not be in our country.

This kind of tragic rampage could happen at any bases in the World. No base is the best, No one cries about it.

JoeBigs: Anyone that holds radical religious beliefs over the belief in their country should not be in our country.

Don't you think his motive was more political than religious? I was thinking religion was just a convenient excuse to act on those political beliefs, or perhaps just a nice lubricant for the wheels.

Of course its going to be hard to determine because the man is dead. But what religious belief spurs this? Too many U.S. soldiers eating pork?

Don't you think his motive was more political than religious?

Islam is both a religion and a political system.

But what religious belief spurs this?

Just read the Koran. The answers are all there.

And it remains amazing that Islam is being judged by individuals while our mostly Christian nation continues ridiculous wars in the M.E.! Is this some sort of a joke?

The USA, UK and others do wage ridiculous and unjust wars, but not in the name of religion. As you very well know, jihadists fight explicitly in the name of religion.

The USA, UK and others do wage ridiculous and unjust wars, but not in the name of religion.

cough slavery? It is too easy to put it on religion beliefs. What about chickens coming home to roost? 1/4 of this world population are Muslims. If your logic stands, the world would be in smoke. Why not admit that bad policies, lengthy oppression we did in the past and continue to do are back to haunt us?

What about chickens coming home to roost?

Nidal Malik Hasan is a chicken... a coward, just like every blood thirsty Islamic whack job that wants to kill innocents in the name of god. The firing squad is too good for him.

Reports now say the shooter is alive, so should get some answers as to motive. Have a feeling some people might be disappointed.

This is really scary and my sympathies to all the family members involved. Japan should seriously consider this possible threat on its US bases too.

Some of the posts on this topic have been terribly insensitive. I am at a military installation right now just down the road from Ft. Hood and will be deploying to Afghanistan in just less than two weeks. I have friends at Ft. Hood and I hardly think that such a tragic event should invite a bunch of callous grandstanding. Politics aside many families are suffering by the actions of one individual who, incidentally, did not die according to the latest reports.

30061015

The firing squad is too good for him.

No need. He was shot dead during the incident.

The USA, UK and others do wage ridiculous and unjust wars, but not in the name of religion. As you very well know, jihadists fight explicitly in the name of religion.

Militant jihadists are not countries. And I cannot think of any war in the modern age lauched by anyone soley or even mostly in the name of religion. And just because a reason is stated does not mean its the actual or only reason. And there is seldom one easy reason for a war or an action such as this. But I think the main reason this happened was not because of religion. I will put my money on a political motive, a personal grudge or just plain being nuts first. A religious belief might have aided and abetted the guy, but it would be something personal or held by a minority of believers, and therefore does not reflect upon the majority.

News reports all say the killer was a fan of the suicide bombers.

Tune in to the news. He is alive and in stable condition.

osprejp

You're right, the initial media reports that the Major had been shot dead were premature. If CNN is saying now that he's hospitalized in stable condition that's just as suspect. I actually just checked the official grid and it says that the shooter was 'neutralized'. That can mean a lot of things...

Fox news is also now reporting it. It still is a rapidly developing story though, so you never know. I hope he is alive so they can get to the bottom of this. They'll know what to do with him at Leavenworth. They'll bring out Mcveigh's old gurney for him to get strapped into.

So this is the kind of person from whom US soldiers receive their mental health treatment and counseling?!? Boy this guy brings a whole new meaning to the army's slogan, "An Army of One."

WayneRooney: "News reports all say the killer was a fan of the suicide bombers."

Actually, the news reports say his name has appeared in relation to radical internet postings... but the media/people investigating have admitted that it's unclear whether he posted the inflammatory remarks himself or was merely commenting on them. No surprise you have jumped to conclusions.

USNinJapan: The initial reports did indeed confirm him dead, but clearly he is not. Of course, the guy may as well be for what's coming to him, but at least since he's still alive they can try and piece together WHY he did what he did.

What concerns me is the number of people jumping the gun based on the man's name -- oh, he simply MUST be a terrorist!! It's quite clear in related articles that the man simply had 'problems'; in particular he had problems with patients while undergoing training, etc. The man was a source of concern in the military because of said troubles. As said, he was a source of concern to the Feds because of his name appearing on radical sites, but it has not been clarified if he made the comments himself or simply commented on posts sympathizing with suicide bombers, etc. What's more, let's say he did make such comments -- it doesn't mean he converted to Islam and was part of a cell instructed to carry out this act. There are people who theorize all the time about what leads a person to kill themself in the name of ideology -- be it Islamic radicalism, or the kids who carried out the Columbine massacre -- this does not make them terrorists by any means.

alienation and fear are two motivating factors in this case.

he had to listen to a lot of war vet stories as part of his job as army psychiatrist, and appeared to dread being deployed.

also, there have been incidents of confrontation and harassment of Hasan due to differing opinions about Afghanistan and Iraq between himself and soldiers in training, which led to alienation.

as a result he tried to obtain an honorable military discharge before deployment.

however, IMHO I do feel he was not justified in shooting his fellow soldiers at all.

my sympathies go to all the family members involved in this tragedy.

I meant to add that I have no doubt the people fueling the argument that he was a radical Islamist are trying to steer away from some of the actual causes of this incident: stress due to warfare and/or dealing with those involved in the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan, mental problems (again, can be related to the aforementioned wars), access to the weaponry to committ such acts, lack of system to deal with the aforementioned stresses, poor recruiting standards, etc.

If the military had to address these issues among others it would paint the situation in the ME in a more negative light. If the suspect were a jihadist it would do the opposite and lend SUPPORT to the 'war on terror' since like-minded radicals would jump to conclusions and declare this an example of why the war must continue, etc.

What concerns me is the number of people jumping the gun based on the man's name -- oh, he simply MUST be a terrorist!!" Whose jumping the gun? his co-workers and cousin were reported as saying he was upset about the wars and believed exactly what is being posted here. but you are a bit right, many of the posters reminded me of you back in the day when an abortion doc was killed by some Christian.

Anyway, enough with you. Why didn't anyone make a mention of his behaviour before hand? I guess this just proves my old posts correct and that those who are not muslim should believe that they are at war with us, and they come in all colors and nationalities. They are at war with us and they are not up to some piece of paper called a treaty - they want victory.

This guy got a free ride from the military through undergrad and medical school to the tune of just under $500,000 and shows his appreciation by killing 12 of his fellow soldiers.

My heart goes out to the families who were already worried as their loved ones prepared to go downrange to serve their country in a war zone, only to be killed by this crackpot.

Anyone that holds radical religious beliefs over the belief in their country should not be in our country.

I think you are right Joe Biggs and that would eliminate many if not most Christians from the military as well.

Yet another tragedy that we can attribute to the whole failure of the previous adminstation to properly execute the war in Afganistan because they diverted resources to a fake and failed war in Iraq. More collateral damage as you military types loved to say about Shock and Awe.

that would eliminate many if not most Christians from the military as well." Really, I've never met a christian in the military who expressed wide spread killing, but I have met Muslims who have...

And GWB's failed war would never have happened if THE Mulims didn't start a war with us.... And even if we did the right thing in Afganistan, that alone would be enough to call out a revenge.

So, now we have the excuse that he was harrased (probably just questions), the war, The crusaders, ... can we add any more excuses other then the only one - he was a crazy nut who followed a religion! hey, these more of them out there..

I think you are right Joe Biggs and that would eliminate many if not most Christians from the military as well.

Yet another tragedy that we can attribute to the whole failure of the previous adminstation to properly execute the war in Afganistan because they diverted resources to a fake and failed war in Iraq. More collateral damage as you military types loved to say about Shock and Awe.

Jeez, can't some of you take a day off from figuring out ways to link anything that happens, no matter how disconnected, to bashing the USA. It's like some of you are trying to channel Oliver Stone. 12 of my fellow service members lost their lives this afternoon because a nut case killed them.

What's the word on the other two? Or was that mistake?

Ah, the dude was upset because he felt the killer in Little Rock, another Muslim who killed a young soldier, was getting a bad deal!

It would seem the Texas gun culture and Arab-American anger make for a potently toxic combination.

I recall a big investigation on skin heads in the military when I was in. Anyone hard line christian was suspect. I hope they start taking the same approach on Muslims in the military. This is the third attack like this that I know of.

skipthesong: " Whose jumping the gun? his co-workers and cousin were reported as saying he was upset about the wars and believed exactly what is being posted here."

LOTS of people who are not religious radicals are upset about the wars. The last election more or less proved that pretty clearly.

"Anyway, enough with you. Why didn't anyone make a mention of his behaviour before hand?"

Ummm... you say there is no mention of his behaviour beforehand but back up your argument with his cousins and family saying his behaviour was erratic? That's called 'paradox', skip. What's more, MANY people cited concern with his behaviour, particular those that were concerned about his MENTAL STATE after seeing a number of patients.

" I guess this just proves my old posts correct and that those who are not muslim should believe that they are at war with us,"

No, actually... all this kind of statement proves is that ignorance still rules a lot of people's actions and comments. If you honestly believe that all Muslims are evil, you are EXACTLY the same as the radical extremists you claim to be against. EXACTLY the same.

Another case of Sudden jihad syndrome.

But blinded by ideology, the US governments continues to chase wild goose Afghanistan, while ignoring reality.

It would seem the Texas gun culture and Arab-American anger make for a potently toxic combination.

What does texas gun culture have to do with anything on a military base? Hello the worlds largest military base is obviously going to have a lot of firepower at its disposal.

I know you were trying to be funny but its just doesn't work primarily because they are on a Military base and the shooter arrested was in the military.

Need to check any Muslim in the US armed forces very very closely. It must become a a necessary part of the vetting process.

He most probably was prompted to commit this heinous crime due to his beliefs.

But the investigation into the truth, I am sure, will continue.

smithinjapan

Sergeant Asan Akbar, killed one and wounded 15 with grenades he rolled into his fellow soldiers' tents at Camp Pennsylvania, Kuwait - Muslim.

Major Nidal Malik Hasan, killed 12 and wounded 31 of his fellow soldiers at Fort Hood, Texas - Muslim.

Merely coincidence?

Correction, Sgt Akbar killed two, not one.

smithjap:

" If you honestly believe that all Muslims are evil "

Not any more or less "evil" than then ideology they believe in. And the deeper they believe in it, they more likely they are to go on a jihad.

skipthesong: "I recall a big investigation on skin heads in the military when I was in. Anyone hard line christian was suspect. I hope they start taking the same approach on Muslims in the military."

So in other words, you approved of all Christians being screened as skinheads? or is it that you just want others to suffer unduly as people did in your time. Once again, skip, as you did with a recent gun issue, you are bringing in your own baggage and using examples of persecution/suffering and how it was wrong to say that it should be implemented in other cases. Klein2 was the person who gave you a grilling, and rightly so, then, in order to point out the hypocrisy. I have no qualms about doing so here. Hell, skip, just the other day you turned the thread of Obama lifting the ban on HIV travellers into an anti-Muslim rant. You just can't injecting personal hatred into unrelated threads.

USNinJapan2: "Merely coincidence?"

Yes, I would say so... or should we NOT take into account the worst case of soldier-on-soldier violence up to this incident?

(from the Camp Liberty incident in Iraq) "An American soldier who is accused of killing five other service members on a base in May had been behaving erratically for weeks — even threatening to commit suicide — but a lack of adequate guidelines on how to handle his case allowed it to get out of control, United States military investigators said in a report."

Is Sergeant John M. Russell one of your Islam converts? or is it possible, just possible, that perhaps the guy cracked under stress, as could be the case here?

My point is that it's sick to watch some of you on here turn a tragedy into an immediate anti-Muslim rant. You're adding to the problem, not helping to resolve it.

WilliB: "Not any more or less "evil" than then ideology they believe in"

Which is a moot point if you also simply believe the ideology is evil. I wouldn't limit this to bias and hatred of a few and target Islam, I would say it applies to anyone who prefers to wallow in ignorance rather than look at things objectively. ANYONE who applies radical viewpoints to practice is guilty of the same thing that they purport all Muslims/Islam to be guilty of (or evil, or what have you).

Extremism is extremism, my friend. The deeper you allow yourself to sink into it, the more likely you are to go on your own little 'jihad' of sorts... or at least anti-Muslim tirades.

This is about a man who turned his guns on his own people -- and yes, the man was American and military, much as you would like to segregate him based on what you claim his beliefs to be, based on name alone -- and it's tragedy. He was quoted as having been under immense pressure and behaving badly due to interaction with patients/war vets, and yet all some people can do on here is point out his name and say it was Islam -- exactly what the media, and likely the military, is hoping for.

If you honestly believe that all Muslims are evil, you are EXACTLY the same as the radical extremists you claim to be against. EXACTLY the same." No, it doesn't! Besides, no, I don't belive all Muslims are evil people, I do believe however islam is evil. Kind of like KKK kids, they innocent when they are born, young, but then get indoctrinated.

you approved of all Christians being screened as skinheads?" More or less, yes. White ones at least.

Muslims have a place where they are welcomed and they are ruled by their religion. This guy should have moved there.

Moderator: Readers, please do not turn this discussion into an anti-Islam rant.

This is indeed a sad day for all of us in the U.S. Army family.

smithinjapan

Both Akbar and Hasan wrote and expressed views which clearly prioritized their religious beliefs, which happened to be Islam, above other things like their oaths of office and duty not to oh say commit murder. Akbar wrote, "But as soon as I am in Iraq, I am going to try and kill as many of them as possible...I may not have killed any Muslims, but being in the Army is the same thing. I may have to make a choice very soon on who to kill." We've seen some of Hasan's writings if you've been watching CNN over the last several hours. It would obviously be unreasonable to say that all those who commit military fratricide are Muslim, but to fail or refuse to recognize any significance whatsoever in the fact that when fratricide does occur in the US military, and most importantly in cases where religion is a factor or probable motive, that the religion happens to be Islam, is in itself unreasonable. In Russel's case as in most other cases of fratercide, the motive wasn't influenced by the killer's religion. The same can't be said for Akbar and Hasan, who are both devout Muslims. That's not coincidence; that's a possible trend.

News is that the other two are released after questioning. Something odd about Virginia Tech spawning mass murderers where Hasan graduated. Two years ago a Korean student shot and killed 30 or so students before committing suicide. Same kind of scenario here.

Giving peopl "here" that is. My apologies! The "man" responsible . . . .

Sorry, sometimes I get a bit frustrated in the face of utter ignorance.

skipthesong: "Muslims have a place where they are welcomed and they are ruled by their religion. This guy should have moved there."

It'd be a whole lot easier to bomb them all into oblivion then, wouldn't it? While we're saying that no one but people approved of by a select few are welcome, let's throw Mexicans back down to Mexico, and Cubans to Cuba, etc. Point being, you cannot claim to be multi-cultural and share a number of beliefs if you are only willing to take in the 'good ones'.

(on my point that extremism is extremism, and that skip's point proves it) "No, it doesn't!"

Yes, it does. In fact, you go on to prove it by saying, "It's KIND OF LIKE the KKK kids..." In case you didn't know it, but being like something is akin to 'being similar', and in many respects being the same. You said as much as well with the religious screening of Christians as possible skin-heads (or white ones, anyway, as you said). So back to my point, extremism is extremism. The particular beliefs may differ, as may opinions on what to do about it or to others, but ultimately extremism is the same thing.

I'm glad you don't think all Muslims are evil, skip, and you are perfectly welcome to think Islam is evil if you so choose. What you are NOT welcome to do is push that belief on others, any more than a radical Islamist is welcome or correct in pushing his/her beliefs on you.

USNinJapan: "Both Akbar and Hasan wrote and expressed views which clearly prioritized their religious beliefs,"

Fine, but nowhere does that make my point about extremism in general being the same moot. I said that this kind of thing can happen for reasons other than Islamic radicalism, and you made a jab about this being a 'coincidence' with another case. Fine. But when I point out that there are incidents of murder of troops by other troops you choose only to see a couple of examples and use it to say it's becoming a 'dangerous trend'. This leads to another point; that being that if there are any 'dangerous trends', it's that cases of troops murdering other troops is on the rise IN GENERAL, case in point (ie. not just Muslims) is the aforementioned Russel.

So once again, this is not a thread about anti-Islam rants; it's about a rampage committed by an insane man. Even in this article there are mentions of non-Islamic shooting rampages, and that should be the focus -- that incidents like this are on the rise in general, and that in the case of the military ONE cause among others is war, and hopelessness/anger that it brings. Lack of understanding and bias is another.

Moderator: Readers, we remind you to refrain from making anti-Islam rants.

The man was identified as Maj Nidal Malik Hasan, a 39-year-old from Virginia.

Not. Good.

I seriously hope this doesn't cause a backlash...

Wrote that last one in a rush, sorry. Will get back to it.

Heh, who would have thought this story would have descended into red-eyed ranting about Islam and George Bush?

I'd rather join the minority and express sorrow for the families like a few other posters present.

Because our president in his press conference this morning spoke for a couple minutes before getting around to the incident in Texas the wingers are trying to say it's his pet goat moment.

I'd like to know, as a shrink for soldiers, what he talked about to his patients?

And to the guy with the question about the killer and what he spoke to his patients about - -the available information I saw says the suspect was not very good at his profession.Sounds like he was another affirmative action mistake.And he was probably kept on because the times demand homage to nonsense like diversity and tolerance, even if it gets the rest of us killed.

more senseless killings.

more senseless killings courtesy of political correctness.

this is america. This is so tragic but why it is not surprising...

I'm in agreement with a few posters here. This was a horrible horrible human tragedy. Let's forget about race, religion and politics and take a moment to think about the people who died today and their families.

Looking at the reality of the situation, which includes sentiments expressed by a number of people who find it hard to hide their contempt for the Islamic faith, the tensions that it must cause in a devoutly religious person who knows that he is aiding in the killing of many innocent men, women and children (who share his faith) -- and must counsel others whose minds become damaged in the business of killing other human beings -- must give rise to thoughts and passions that are overwhelming.

Compound this by the fact that the "just-ness" of the cause for the never-ending "war on terror" has become opaque and ambiguous at best. The grossly immoral concept that the United States has taken upon itself the right to invade and attack other nations and kill people even if there is a "one-percent chance" that they might be planning something we don't like -- preemptive war -- combined with the U.S. desire to force-feed our system to the people of the Middle East, makes this a case of one mentally deranged system spawning and then confronting another one.

what a bunch of psychobabble you ripped off from some leftist website.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/06/AR2009110600897.html?hpid=topnews

Read more for yourself . . . .

When you read some more about the guy's background with his religion and the myriad problems he had in the Army, it makes you wonder why he was still in the service, let alone promoted to major in recent years.

All in the name of promoting fairness for people of all religious stripes, no matter how incompatible the beliefs with serving in the U.S. military, and damn the potential consequences.

I meant to say he was promoted in recent months.

This guy should have been booted out of the Army long before this tragedy occurred.

pathat: This is where I believe you see Political Correctness failing. I believe if someone was to raise a flag on him they would have been accused of being what many here would say intolerant. I really believe that.

smithinjapan

But when I point out that there are incidents of murder of troops by other troops you choose only to see a couple of examples and use it to say it's becoming a 'dangerous trend'.

I did? I would be very surprised if you can show me where I said anything in this thread about a 'dangerous trend'. I'd say a retraction is in order...

Of course if this bastard does recover and start talking and it turns out he was motivated by his Islamic faith after all then I would say that it is indeed a trend and a dangerous one too in light of the body count.

What a dick. This guy is a dick, straight up. His motivations don't really matter. If he were white & Christian, he'd still be a dick. If you've got your own problems, take yourself out. Don't take 13 other people with lives and families with you. So selfish.

This guy posted on the internet about jihad and suicide bombings and killing non believers and the lot. He had been disciplined for trying to convert patients to radical islam before and I believe he said his faith led him to this or some crap like that on the way to the hospital.

What Ke11iente said. :thumbsup:

People need to stop bashing Islam (and no, I am no a Muslim). I know plenty of Muslims and they are all nice and reasonable people. Recently went to Turkey, same thing.

Sure there are crazy Muslims but there are crazy Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists or whatever too.

Maybe some people are just CRAZY.

A footnote, the way I see it any extremely religious people seem to be more prone to being "crazy" than others (ie cults). To have faith, yet be moderate and think for yourself is the key, in my opinion.

A psychiatrist? Obhviously someone missed that he was bat sh*t crazy and had no business being a psychiatrist.

"This is where I believe you see Political Correctness failing. I believe if someone was to raise a flag on him they would have been accused of being what many here would say intolerant. I really believe that."

Yes, this is something we agree on.

What I am doing is taking a hard look at this one particular individual and wondering how his beliefs could have been even remotely compatible with his duties as an officer in the U.S. Army, one who was to provide mental health services to other members, and one who scheduled to deploy to one of our conflicts in the Middle East.

I am not making a blanket indictment of Islam.

I'm thinking there was a failure of massive proportions throughout the chain of command because of blind subservience to the Political Correctness God.

Pass the buck in the name of religious diversity and hope that things don't blow up in your face someday.

Try explaining how this sick bastard was even still in a U.S. Army uniform yesterday to the families and friends of the at least 13 who died at his hand, and the dozens of others injured.

Just plain nuts.

He was a radical muslim, that was his motivation. If he was a radical christian the media would be all over it.

Sorry for all families of people who were killed or hurt in such a terrible personal arrogance, no religion on earth would allow its fellows to do such things to others who are innocents, even if he did not like what US is doing in Iraq or Afganistan, this is not the way to show his opinion, this not the way to solve it, what did these soldiers do to be killed like this, if he thinks he was forced to be sent with troops abroad, then all of these soldiers were the same like him, they have not done anything but obbeying, Its sad to see things happening like this and acclaim it, or blame it on all muslims and their faith, the blam all of it is on those who do not know about faith, but they only follow who acclaim to be right but he is really so far from the real message of Islam, I hope those who convert to Islam to search more and more about The True Islam, and get the truth from the real sources, by going to Mosque or gov.Islamic center ,,not from groups or the Internet.

Obama had his "My Pet Goat" moment with this atrocity yesterday. After the White House announced that the President would be making comments on the situation, Obama chose to start his remarks with light, jovail remarks at the event he was at - he even gave a "shout out" to one person in the audience. A few minutes in he switched to a somber tone and gave his remarks on the Ft. Hood shootings. Even the Chicago news outlets couldn't ignore this appalling insensitivity:

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html

I was not surprised that within hours of the situation CNN's Anderson Cooper had a discussion going on how Post Traumatic Stress played into what happened. Apparently it didn't matter that this terrorist had NO TRAUMA to be suffering the post effects of.

C'mon - the prevailing excuses by those who wish to excuse why the guy might have done this; he was 'traumatized' by hearing stories from those returning from war, and he didn't want to be deployed. Well cry me a bloody river. If anyone joining the US armed forces since 2001 did not think that their chances of being deployed somewhere were pretty friggin' high, they are an idiot. This guy was a Dr. - certainly he knew the odds. My wife works as a therapist to both women who have been sexually abused/raped and kids who have suffered horifically from abuse. It's part of your occupation if that is your field. You don't go killing people becuase of it.

Likely he was nuts, or maybe did have some sort of misguided ideas from his crackpot religion, but don't make excuses for him. Crackpot religion I say? Yes, crackpot. I'll go where many others fear to tread. What single identity or ideal has been responsible for more human deaths, killing and misery and suffering than any other factor, both man-made or natural? What entity/ideal requires you to believe in something that you can never see or prove? What single entity/ideal promises a person hope when there is none, then excuses it after failure (i.e. the promise of prayer to heal the sick, who die anyway)? What entity/ideal helps the rich and powerful gain and keep control of the 'lesser' masses (i.e. the Catholic church)? The answer of course if organized religion. Be it Christian, Muslim, Jew, snake handler, Wicken. Man's fear of life and death personified. 'This can't be it; there must be more'.

On a rant? Certainly and why not? Whether this guy turns out to have been a Muslim (and latest reports are that he is) and whether that had anything to do with it directly, one way or the other it did. Either he freaked because he was a muslim and couldn't handle the idea of going to support in the fight agains his bretheren, or he couldn't handle going to war - which is still at cause because of religious extremism (have to prove my case so they don't yank this for irrelevancy!).

And as a quick note I'm not anti-religious. I think the sould needs something to believe in and if you want to call a spirit of 'goodness' religion that's all good. Killing for it or aggressively promoting its spread (such as the annoying mormons coming to my door) is not.

And while I'm on a tear, here's my solution for the whole muslim extremist, middle east nightmare. Put all of the money we waste in these regions (including any humanitarian efforts) into finding a good, cheap, sustainable alternative fuel source (and team Britain, France, Germany, etc to do this). Pull out of the whole region. Part of their gripe is our interference and 'control' of their economy. Okay, drop it all - move all the oil companies and other investments out. At the risk of putting it in very politically incorrect terms (and what about my rant isn't politically incorrect) they'll go back to being nomadic tribesmen with camels, lots of sand and little else. If that's what they want then sod 'em - let them have it. With the understanding that if they try to spread their snake oil religion it will be dealt with via a rain of nuclear warheads. You stay on your side of the line, we'll stay on ours. The global world order is an impossible farce; deal with that fact and we'll all be happier.

that's 'soul' sorry.

the prevailing excuses by those who wish to excuse why the guy might have done this...

There is no one who wishes to excuse the actions of this psychiatrist. Your post goes right off the rails from that point.

With the understanding that if they try to spread their snake oil religion it will be dealt with via a rain of nuclear warheads.

I will trust and hope that all of the people killed by this gunman were too honorable and too decent to have shared this vile sentiment.

www.hotair.com

Second article with video from Obama.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/06/video-obama-says-to-wait-for-facts-before-reaching-conclusions/

What surprised me was that this guy was not a NCO (non-commission officier), but was high ranking officer, a Major in the U.S. Army. To become a Major, you really have to have right components of qualification, leadership, knowledge, etc. and takes many years of intense training and reviews, regardless of the poor performance internship evaluation that was stated on this article. If you're good in what you do, they get promoted from 2nd Lt, to 1st Lt, to Captain, and then Major. He must've done something right and he was not a dumb guy, but something snapped on him. I don't believe being deployed to Middle East is the real cause.

usaexpat:

A psychiatrist? Obviously someone missed that he was bat sh*t crazy and had no business being a psychiatrist.

It wouldn't be the first time...

[I'm thinking there was a failure of massive proportions throughout the chain of command because of blind subservience to the Political Correctness God.Pass the buck in the name of religious diversity and hope that things don't blow up in your face someday.] -- We'll be waiting for you to say this on the next Israel related story.

Tigermoth: very good post at 3:28am. Screw political correctness as pathat says in the quote above. Israel knows this and so do we. But some only know it when it's convenient.

Diversity is Americas strength..aw

Yabits - what's so 'vile' about my comment if you really think about it? Okay, the 'rain of nuclear weapons' part is a bit over the top. But the fundamental complaint by those extremists (and by whatever chance a good majority of them are Muslim - whether you like it or not) is in western meddling in their affairs that has brougt them nothing but woe. To a large degree they are right. America, Britain and others have been meddling for a long time. Much of it was our greed in obtaining oil and maintaining our addiction to this. We created a super-wealthy upper stratta, i.e. the 'Sheiks' who control the oil fields and the national wealth, while the rest were left to it. Of course you must read the history of the region to realize that there has been bicking, fighting and general chaos long before the western world took any interest in the region. But for good or bad, they want us out. So we should simply get out and leave them to it. Fair enough? Can you possibly disagree with that - and if so why?

At the same time, while I must truthfully admit to a good deal of ignorance about the muslim faith and general beliefs, for fundamentalists I beleive there is something alluding to the fact than any non-believers should be summarily dealt with. While my comment on the nuclear rain of death might be out of hand, it should be made plain that much as the spread of christianity was forced upon much of the world by earlier 'pilgrams' a similar spread of Islam, particularly by force, is not welcome. Let people believe what they wish and have no fear of repurcussions because of this. The Taliban certainly doesn't take that point of view.

There are videos out showing the killer dressed in traditional Arab dress shortly before his rampage. He was giving out copies of the Koran. He reportedly (not confirmed) was yelling something about Allah as he was killing these people. Fair evidence that his religious beliefs came into play I should think.

And as for your first comment about no one wishing to excuse the killings, just read the posts above. Right away several posters jumped into the unjust war thing. Any war is disgusting and unjust; but it's not an excuse for what occurred. There is implication of cause and effect there, whether your bias for the muslim world and leftist point of view allows you to see it or not.

All I'm saying and suggesting is a mutually beneficial course of action. Muslims are tired of being killed by US troops in their countries. A great number of us are tired of our folks getting killed by muslims (and yes, I realize there are 'good' and 'bad' muslims - if you want to ignore the extremely sexist way women are treated which I personally find highly offensive - but hey, that's me). There has to be a separation and a 'you leave me alone and I'll leave you alone' gentleman's agreement. It's not about intolerance or bigotry (although you'll likely disagree) but rather the unfeasibility of mixing opposite cultural extremes and expecting miracle results. If similar groups/cultures in the region haven't been able to co-exist very peacefully in hundreds or thousands of years, we have no chance. That's why the 'hearts and minds' campaign that idiot Bush tried with the military and Iraq and Afganistan has been such a dismal failure. The hatred and mistrust is too deep, and the fissures widened by war and killing. Time to cut losses.

Fair evidence that his religious beliefs came into play I should think.

Emphasis on his religious beliefs. This where so many get confused. His beliefs are not shared by most Muslims. His beliefs are the minority, which is why 1 billion Muslims are not shooting at us. Most of them live in peace.

His name is an Arab name, and he had said he was Palestinian. I guess he was raised rebelious at home, had problems adjusting to the society outside, and then at work decided to kill as many as he could along with himself. Very deranged personality. I just wonder how a psychopath could work as a psychiatrist? I know many psychiatrists are a bit crazy themselves, but this is extreme ...

This is not going to help the image of Muslims.

Emphasis on his religious beliefs. This where so many get confused. His beliefs are not shared by most Muslims. His beliefs are the minority, which is why 1 billion Muslims are not shooting at us. Most of them live in peace." Oh, so are you telling me they are quite content with everything? C'mon. No, its not his relgion of course, but it is the upper echelon in that religion that is a problem.

now back on topic: This what the 4th or 5th incident like this that has happened not in a war zone, but right in the US. While you want to look for the cause of the fire, it might be best to put the fire out first and then think about the cause. its becoming clearer and clearer that they do not want to live amongst us and they are not going to go anywhere, so what is to be done?

Here are the facts so far:

The shooter was dressed in army gear like an officer.

He used two handguns any civilian can get easily in Texas, legally.

IMHO I still insist alienation & fear motivated Hasan more so than Islam did.

His behavior as caught on a security camera at a convenience store also matches the profile of a shooter.

How come you guys all get to talk about Muslims and Islam? The JT Mods deleted my post and said: " Off topic. This is not about Islam."

What I wanted to say was that a very influencial body of Muslim scholars has just this week denounced terrorism and said that it has nothing to do with Islam. I also included a reference to the news article.

Moderator: We do not wish readers to turn this discussion into an anti-Islam rant.

IMHO I still insist alienation & fear motivated Hasan more so than Islam did." Ah, but you want to look at it as though he was alienated by others and not of his choosing. Now we are getting reports from his patients. Word is that some say he debated them on whether the war was right or wrong.

Before everyone and their mother goes off on how bad guns are in the USA, remember this happened on an Army Base where there is access to weapons of all sorts.

As far as the man's beliefs, remember, in Islam, suicide of this nature is a sin...actually, so are all the suicide killings in civilian areas, too...

Whatever this nut job's motivation for his cowardly act (Islam or insanity - they are really one and the same!), I think it is HILARIOUS that of all the people who would drop this idiot with four bullets to his torso it was a WOMAN!

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER!!!!!

Hey Blue Tiger - it wasn't suicide. The guy is still alive (unfortunately). And where does it say it is a sin in the Koran? They are supposed to kill "unbelievers" "wherever they find them". You people who keep trying to whitewash Islam and its murderous history are a real disservice to humanity.

It would be nice if we could all say the koran is a good religious text, but when you really read it, and then hear what believers say about it its a more contradictory work than anything you'll ever see. As they said about Hasan, he was a mess of contradictions. It would be nice if this whole situation was black or white, but its a very ambiguous confuddled grey area and the backlash both between muslims and practically every other society are always going to conflict.

Check out the UN resolution that is attempting to be passed by major Islamic countries.

American army needs diversity as a strategic and calculated step. It is not for any kind of love for Islam. When you fight with Islamists, like in Iraq and Afghanistan, you need some people who can share a common thread during a battle or in its aftermath: say during a debriefing of an enemy combatant. Playing a good cop, bad cop game ... during such episodes.

While Nidal's actions are condemnable to say the least, a cause and effect analysis of another incident in Orlando, Florida, says what! People can go berserk, no matter what their religion, when they feel belittled and betrayed for some reasons. Has anybody talked about the faith practiced by Rodrigues, the latest American fratricide committer? Similar cases in Texas, and at other places in USA, like Oklahoma bombing for instance, have taken place, and no one has ever talked about "their' faith.

One should hold judgment, until a far reaching alarming warning signs of dissent are seen among any given group of individuals, who do not agree with a war continuum by USA. The foot soldiers are tired now, and they need some rest.

About Hasan, this is surprisingly a case of human resources management failure. Motivation to do his job was lacking: he was getting disenchanted, and at this point in time, he needed to be relieved of his duties, as an unwilling soldier is nothing else then a danger to his own comrades! People like him should be let gone .... with the first hint of a deep dissent to the military objectives.

One needs to scrutinize as to what took place during his morning shopping and the afternoon hours that he went berserk! Also, it needs to be closely investigated as to how many people he was able to personally shoot before collapsing. It is highly improbable that he fired as many as 32+13= 45 shots! These many would probably not fit in common US pistol magazines ... Looks like in the ensuing confusion some friendly firing took place .. The nature of wounds would speak for themselves.

It is amazing to see as to how little US forces have learned even after being the most experienced fighters in the world since world war II. They have been in every pie. Arab Israeli wars, Lebanon civil war, Iranian operations, Iraq 1991, Afghanistan 1998, Afghanistan 2002, Iraq 2003, Honduras incursion, Bosnian battles, Afghanistan Russian battles over a very long period from 1979 to 1989, to name a few. Still the psychological effects of war have not been analyzed in sufficient detail.

Hasan Nidal's shout of Allah o Akbar should not be taken as a Jihadist's battle cry! It is a very common sentence, if you will, used by a common Muslim during his daily chores, just saying a praise to Allah. Like one says, oh my gosh, or Jesus Christ in amazement or in excitement. This is just one of those Islamic values that could be misinterpreted in the background of this horrible incident.

Also it needs to be seen that Hasan was a true Loner. No girl friends, no love life. So what was his motivating factor to carry on in a tough military life! Not to shoot his comrades one day for sure.

This is a more complex medico-socio-psycho and 'environmental hostility' episode, that probably could never be fully understood. That is a quality of human beings: Unpredictabilty. His back lash in revenge (supposedly) is what can be attributed to human nature, and not to a religious indoctrination.

Let the American dream live on. When wars are soon over, all would be quite on the western front! "Insha Allah, Allah o Akbar." Live and let live. Let the world issues where drastic violations of human rights are taking place be resolved without blood letting. Do we need to name those places? Darfur, Palestine, Kashmir, Burma,,,,, and the cruel American isolation policies towards Cuba!!! There must be more ... you name them.

Yep, you have to add the infamous Vietnam war, and Korean fiascos to the list of tiring US live ammo exercises.

And read 'than' for 'then' typed out by me somewhere up in the earlier posting ;-)