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12-year-old boy with fake gun dies after shot by Ohio officer

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Another policeman-assisted suicide?

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

With the US awash in guns, cops have got to assume the worst about each situation. This suggestion is pathetic but is made in the context of American gun insanity: All toy guns should be banned.

13 ( +18 / -5 )

Sorry, but this (sad) news is hardly surprising in the least.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

"Another policeman assisted suicide"!

---So officer Wilson is guilty I read in your comment. The media you read does not have all the facts yet, How could you?

"Toy guns should be banned"

!----And knives, bows and arrows, pressure cookers, baseball bats, hammers, rope, lighters and matches, windows w/o safety bars above the 2nd floor. Heck lets add privately owned motor vehicles.

Clearly this officer in Cleveland was paranoid and not well trained. Even if this boy looked more mature than age 12, the policeman over reacted and to responded fatally. Sadly the 12yo boy is now dead. Sad for all involved.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

Reasons why I no longer live in the U.S., #172.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

If someone points a gun (or grabs it) , can a lawman afford to stop and ask himself if it's the real thing? These toy weapons are dangerous, easily exploitable and potentially menacing playthings.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Suggestion #173 about visiting / living in USA; When an ARMED Policeman is ( likely ) pointing HIS GUN at YOU, DO WHAT HE SAYS.

" Little thugs " in the United States, sometimes have guns.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Life is becoming extremely cheap in the US.

So officer Wilson is guilty I read in your comment. The media you read does not have all the facts yet, How could you?

He's a murderer, whether or not he's indicted. Just as this cop is a murderer. Just like the cops who murdered a man who took an air rifle off the shelf at a local department store. (Shot him in the back.)

If someone points a gun (or grabs it) , can a lawman afford to stop and ask himself if it's the real thing?

Yes. A person who is not a gutless coward will wait a few precious seconds. Normally, a gun has to be aimed before firing it will hit someone, and this kid was not aiming it -- just taking it out from his waistband, probably to throw on the ground or otherwise remove it from his person.

When we describe "heroic" behavior, we think of the firefighter willing to risk his or her life to enter a dangerous situation to save the life of another person. These gutless cowards will fire at anything to save their own asses.

3 ( +12 / -9 )

If ever there was a case of people creating a hell of their own choosing... One more reason to thank the Lord I wasn't born in the USA.

Good luck, America, you're going to need it....

1 ( +9 / -8 )

When an ARMED Policeman is ( likely ) pointing HIS GUN at YOU, DO WHAT HE SAYS.

Yes. This is the message we must send to American children.

!----And knives, bows and arrows, pressure cookers, baseball bats, hammers, rope, lighters and matches, windows w/o safety bars above the 2nd floor. Heck lets add privately owned motor vehicles.

Your copy-and-paste stock answer to gun violence in America does not apply here. Do you think a 12-year old at a playground would have been shot if he had been carrying any of the above? Seriously: this is not the first time a toy gun has been mistaken for the real thing, and since restricting the real thing is impossible, we'd be better of eliminating toy guns.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

@WA4TKG ... When an ARMED Policeman is ( likely ) pointing HIS GUN at YOU, DO WHAT HE SAYS.

Unless you are an "open carry advocate" backed by the NRA. Then you strut your feathers, fully armed with guns and secret camera in front of policemen hoping they will stop you and your can post your video on you tube, as well as suing the police department.

Go search on you tube for "open carry", I got 726,000 hits. You won't be able to watch them as fast as they are being added. Who needs logic when you've got guns.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I was once ACCOSTED by no less than SIX Thug looking types in Missippi while ARMED ( legally) accompanied by my Female Japanese friend. It turns out THEY were POLICE. I did NOT over-react and the whole incident PASSED. The KEY HERE, is CONTROL. Sorry, I am one of those DREADED NRA members you obviously HATE.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Yes. A person who is not a gutless coward will wait a few precious seconds. Normally, a gun has to be aimed before firing it will hit someone, and this kid was not aiming it

Easier said then done. Have you ever looked down the barrel of a gun? Not a sight I want to see again. Those few precious seconds could mean the bad guy wins. It's a difficult position.

This shooting has mistake written all over it. In retrospect this officer likely thinks the same. "If only I waited a few seconds more". He didn't he shot a boy dead and he will pay for theta mistake. IF THE MEDIA REPORTED THE STORY ACCURATELY!!! As we've seen in the past, they are headline grabbing over accuracy. Not a good practice.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

This shooting has mistake written all over it. In retrospect this officer likely thinks the same. "If only I waited a few seconds more"

He will have to live with his cowardice -- taking an innocent life.

Easier said then done. Have you ever looked down the barrel of a gun?

Stop making excuses for cowards. He would have only been looking down the barrel of a gun if the kid pointed it at him. And there's enough time between when it's being taken out of a waistband to when it gets pointed for any courageous person to hold off on making a decision to fire.

Like the cowards who murdered the guy in WalMart who had taken an air rifle off the shelf for purchase. Shot him in the back.

Those few precious seconds could mean the bad guy wins. It's a difficult position.

So a fireman shouldn't try rushing into a burning building to save someone because the fire might win. A person of valor would risk his life rather than shoot to kill an innocent person, and I'm seeing FAR too many gutless cowards -- like this one -- who call themselves "cops."

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

MarkG: "As we've seen in the past, they are headline grabbing over accuracy. "

And how, pres tel, do you know they are not being accurate?

My question is why the responders were not informed that the caller thought the gun might be fake. It might have helped the police officer in question exercise a little more restraint instead of being yet another trigger-happy US cop.

And sorry to the gun-nutters, but anyone who honestly believes the man 'had no choice' but to shoot and kill a kid with a toy gun is admitting that the US has a SERIOUS problem with guns.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

I feel sorry for the cop. He's merely the end-product of a society that values law and order over human life. This is going to happen again and again till America sorts itself out.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

And sorry to the gun-nutters, but anyone who honestly believes the man 'had no choice' but to shoot and kill a kid with a toy gun is admitting that the US has a SERIOUS problem with guns.

Amen, Smith.

And it continues to make the point that life in America is becoming cheap -- mainly because the people who endorse guns have so little regard for it. Lethal force appears to be the first response tool for everything.

People assembling together to protest? Call out the Guard, declare an emergency, and get ready to shoot to kill.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

A policeman kills a kid with a toy gun because he is in a country knee-deep with the real things which kill tens of thousands every year. Just sick.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Sad story. But the life of this child is the price required for grown adults to be allowed to carry real guns. And everyone who carries a gun in the USA has tacitly agreed to this price, and thinks that the lives of children are a fair price to pay for their 'right' to carry.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

As with the other cases, the policeman has already been declared guilty by the clueless Kangaroo court on this forum.

There's no doubt that shooting a 12 year old shows that the US has serious introspection to do about its out of control gun culture.

But the police officer also deserves to have his version of the event heard? Did he mistake the 12 year old for an adult? Whether any words were exchanged which made him feel threatened?

Calling somebody gutless from the comfort of your armchair is easy. What is difficult is to have a balanced outlook and a rational understanding of facts before passing a judgement..

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Reasons why I no longer live in the U.S., #172.

If you were to scroll down the Crime section, you would see a police officer in Chiba burglarized 2 homes. Google police misconduct throughout the World and see where the U.S. ranks then come back here and share your findings. Thank you

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

Calling somebody gutless from the comfort of your armchair is easy.

What seems to be easy is cops blowing away people who don't represent a real threat. (Like the WalMart case.) Lord help if the victim was 6' 5" and 230 lbs and completely unarmed. That would be reason enough to blow him away for some people.

Anyone who responds to fear in a way that causes them to take the life of an innocent person under the fear-induced delusion that they are protecting their own life is a coward by definition.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

A series of unfortunate events:

-- the toy gun's bright orange cap signifying it's a toy was taken off

-- the dispatcher didn't tell the police the gun may or may not be real

-- the boy did not follow the policeman's instruction when told to raise his hands but instead reached to his waistband apparently where the toy gun was located

-- the cop had to assume the worst and shot

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Anyone who responds to fear in a way that causes them to take the life of an innocent person

The statement would be true if he cop knew that the boy was innocent and had a toy gun. But we dont know either way, so anybody who makes a judgement without facts is just making himself or herself foolish.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

A series of small misunderstandings resulting in a lost life. Really bad luck for all concerned.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The caller said the boy was pulling the gun in and out of his pants. “I don’t know if it’s real or not,” the caller said. The boy did not make any verbal threats toward the officer or point the gun, but reached into his waistband and grabbed it after being told to raise his hands, Tomba said.

The price of innocence. Obviously this kid was playing around, but eventually played around with the wrong set of people. This was a twelve year old kid obviously thinking like a twelve year old. Little did he know, that to the cops he was a killer black thug with a gun.

<http://www.examiner.com/article/gun-wielding-white-man-tased-first > Sorry kid, I guess you should have been white then you would still be alive.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Sincere condolences to the family, sympathies to law enforcement officer involved.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Quote: 'A man who called police told emergency dispatchers before police arrived that the boy was on a swing set and pointing a pistol that was “probably fake” and scaring everyone. The caller said the boy was pulling the gun in and out of his pants. “I don’t know if it’s real or not,” the caller said.'

"Scaring everyone."

A concerned citizen? A do-gooder? A nosy neighbor? He must be doing some serious self-reflection right now.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Those few precious seconds could mean the bad guy wins

Once again, predictable fantasies about the steel phallus.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Calling the police seems to present the bigger danger.

Was the kid play-acting like his favorite music video persona?

Real or not, kids need to be taught by their parent(s) to respect firearms. I don't care if it's a toy made of popsicle sticks, kids need to treat them respectfully, and to learn the principle of non-aggression. This tragedy is one part parenting failure, one part neighborhood snitch failure, and a large part police state consequence.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

'This tragedy is one part parenting failure, one part neighborhood snitch failure, and a large part police state consequence.'

And, of course, in no part due to the consequences of living in a country absolutely awash with firearms which can and do find their way into the hands of young children. Barking mad.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Wayne LaPierre, the National Rifle Association’s executive vice president.........

 “I call on Congress today to act immediately to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed officers in every single school in this nation.”

Blinkered as well as bonkers !!!

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I assumed Ohio is in Japan and shoked by the news for a while. Now I realize its just another news from US.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

To put this into perspective... when I was a boy I lived in an army town in the South of England. It had been targeted by the IRA on at least one occasion (blowing up a building near my school). Aldershot had massive security, with bomb scares every so often. As boys we played with guns... no orange bits on them... just cap guns and battery powered machine guns.

Not once did an MP take it into his head to shoot at kids playing with toy guns. Why do American police officers always assume it to be a real gun? Is that what America is like? Police officers believe that everyone is an armed thug? Even a 12 year old?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Way, way, way too much of this type of incident ! When are people going to learn ? Law enforcement officers shoot to kill !

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Is that what America is like? Police officers believe that everyone is an armed thug? Even a 12 year old?

The American way of thinking is that because some 12 year olds are armed, all 12 year olds may be armed. Therefore all 12 year olds are suspects.

The ones that put Law and Order FIRST over human life

It's not law and order they have put ahead of human life, rather it's their own lives they have put over a suspect's life. Even though they have pledged their life in service.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

It appears that the U.S. federal "look-alike" law and regulations that impose marking requirements on certain types of replica and toy firearms, was of little consequence.

However this tragic loss of life needn't be in vain, if national gun education and avoidance programs taught in public schools from kindergarten through middle school or even high school be a compulsory measure.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Or you could even just get rid of the whole gun culture altogether!

But of course that's way too logical.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

As a kid, my friends and I spent many days playing in the nearby woods with our bb guns(firing steel BBs). We didn't play in the neighborhood playground, but in the woods. The swings and carousel always had bunches of younger kids, so we played where we wouldn't disturb others or be disturbed. We shot up dirt and rock piles, but never aimed at people.

If this kid was waving his pistol at people , then he bears the blame for his foolishness. Condolences to his bereaved parent(s).

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The lastest data from PEW research may have some bearing as to the circumstances surrounding this officers actions. Whatever the case this tragic boys death will torment him for the rest of his life. I hope his community recognise this and support him accordingly, with continued respect accorded to the victims family.

Quote:

"Overall, about a third of all Americans with children under 18 at home have a gun in their household, including 34% of families with children younger than 12. That’s nearly identical to the share of childless adults or those with older children who have a firearm at home"

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/15/the-demographics-and-politics-of-gun-owning-households/

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@John Galt He was twelve. How about taking down 10, 8, 6 year-olds? Kids in the US are brought up in a place where guns are loved and romanticised. Of course kids, particularly boys around this age, are going to ape the stupidity of the adults with toy guns. Kids like to get into mischief. It's called being a kid and they shouldn't be blown away by a firearm for doing so. Remember, these kids will need to get into the habit of handling guns for the day when they'll be warding off the nuclear-armed tyrannical US government with pistols ( quack, quack, banana, banana, I'm the Marquis de Sade etc.etc.),

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Remember, these kids will need to get into the habit of handling guns for the day when they'll be warding off the nuclear-armed tyrannical US government with pistols

That is the completely schizoid message being given out by gun-loving conservatives who, by the way, made Ohio an open carry state. Isn't it?

"We need the second amendment to keep and bear arms in case of a police state that might come and take them. So, kid, when the police show up, you'd better let them take your gun."

The boy did not make any verbal threats toward the officer or point the gun, but reached into his waistband and grabbed it after being told to raise his hands, Tomba said.

Let's not forget the South Carolina man who was shot by police (and lived) after being stopped for a seat-belt violation when he was pulling in to a gas station. He was shot after being told to produce his driver's license and registration, as he turned to his vehicle to get them.

Were these cops wearing cameras? Let's hope they were and that America gets a chance to see how a 12-year old kid gets blown away by these courageous men in blue -- wearing bullet-proof protection and risking their lives against kids with toy guns.

Really bad luck for all concerned.

This has nothing to do with "luck." This event was practically designed to happen.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

And the saddest part is that many Americans really believe that guns make them free.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Why a 12 year-old is walking around a playground with an Airsoft gun in the first place is the real issue here. Those guns are intentionally designed to look like the real thing, and it appears only about half of the ones for sale have the orange muzzle called for by law enforcement so that the toys can be told from the real thing.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Fadamor

You seriously think that's the "real issue" here?

A cop shot a child dead....

2 ( +4 / -2 )

America won't change the statistics of child slaughter until they change the Constitution. The old 'rights argument' is only satisfactory for the mentally ill. The only thing standing in the way of changing America's gun slaughter is the gun nuts and the NRA. Americans are not stupid, they refuse to think.

This child was frightening people at a playground waving a gun deliberately altered to appear as a deadly weapon. The police witnessed the gun being grabbed from a table, put in a waist band and then the boy pulled the weapon when confronted. The result? Exactly what the officer is trained to do.

Americans face the anniversary of Newtown slaughter, twenty six dead, twenty of them children ages five and six. America won't change these lurid tragedies. They love their guns so much they're ready to make anyone die for their "freedom".

This child might have been saved if the toy wasn't deliberately altered or if all toy guns are sold only in International Orange plastics. Sadly again all the wisdom is too late for a twelve year old whose reckless acts resulted in his death.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This child might have been saved if the toy wasn't deliberately altered or if all toy guns are sold only in International Orange plastics.

Or if he hadn't lived in a society where anyone might seriously consider a child waving a toy gun around might, just might, be in possession of a real gun. A society in which it is all too easy for a child to get his hands on a real gun and use it to wreak havoc on himself or others.

Sadly again all the wisdom is too late

Sadly there is no wisdom when having a society awash with lethal weapons that anyone can get their hands on is seen as some kind of 'freedom' to be protected at all costs, even when those costs include the deaths of thousands of children every year.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This child was frightening people at a playground waving a gun deliberately altered to appear as a deadly weapon.

If this was the case, the boy would have been the only one left on the playground. He wasn't, was he? The fact that there were others with him indicates they were not afraid, and therefore knew the gun was not real. Of course, I'm going out on a limb here by assuming that "frightened people" don't hang around the things that cause them to be frightened.

We (America) are an extremely sick society.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Sadly there is no wisdom when having a society awash with lethal weapons that anyone can get their hands on is seen as some kind of 'freedom' to be protected at all costs, even when those costs include the deaths of thousands of children every year.

@ cleo: The kid didn't have a lethal weapon. It was a toy gun. But, how well would you react if you were faced with a similar situation. Also, what type of area was the police responding to? Was it an area that was known for higher crime rates.

I get it you don't like guns, your choice. But for those who do manage to keep them secured, and follow proper procedures, why should we have to adhere to your beliefs and not be able to own one? If I owned a gun, you would never know, but in America one has the right to own one. My grandmother who lived far out in the country kept a series of guns (rifles, and pistols) in the house and we grandkids never bothered them for they were locked up. As a matter of fact, I only found out about them as an adult being in the house shortly before her passing. She informed me that they had always had them, used them to hunt and would defend their property (they lived really far in the woods), and all while growing up we grandkids never knew they were in the house.

As in this case as well as the Ferguson one, let the process get completed and if the cop is found at fault, then he should be prosecuted. I love the fact that when the cops shoot someone, everyone in the areas is an eyewitness. But when it is a black on black or other type of crime where the victims/criminal are not cops, no one seems to see anything.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

for those who do manage to keep them secured, and follow proper procedures, why should we have to adhere to your beliefs and not be able to own one?

Because the cost of your 'right' to own guns is that 5-6 year old kids get shot at school, and 12 year old kids get shot in the playground.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

But, how well would you react if you were faced with a similar situation.

Were it me, I could give his grief-stricken parents -- as much good as that would do them now -- 100% assurance that their child would not have been shot. Why? Because I never, ever would have fired first in that situation. How do I know? Because I have long decided that my own life wouldn't mean much to me living with the knowledge that I took the life of an innocent person, and so would be willing to risk mine in the process.

A coward would never even begin to think in that way, and this is one of the great problems of America: FAR too many cowards who think they need these guns to protect themselves from their fellow Americans. We need to clearly identify cowardly, yellow behavior for what it is -- and stop trying to excuse or rationalize it. Naturally, gutless cowards will react with contempt -- rather than reflection -- when someone who is not a coward calls them out on it. They've got a million excuses to justify themselves. This is how deep-set the problem is.

The officers report "a few people" including the kid sitting in the pavilion at the rec center -- with the gun on the bench or table -- as they arrived. This is obviously not a panic-inducing situation. Of course, when heavily armed and cowardly police arrive on the scene, that's when it's time to panic.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

he was a 12 year old boy. that officer should have used some recourse other than shoot to kill. it used to be long time ago the police didn't shoot to kill. they would disable the person. i wish they would use rubber bullets or something like that. i really feel sorry for the kid. he probably had no idea that his actions would cause his death. for those of you who are glad you don't live in the US don't judge America because of something like this. it is still a great country to live in as long as you are law-abiding. i'm sure it is not so great for those who break the law in your countries, too.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

it is still a great country to live in as long as you are law-abiding.

Tell that to this 12 year old kid who wasn't breaking any laws.

Oh wait, you can't. He's dead.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I see both sides of this argument. First of all, America has been having a lot of school shootings recently. How would the cop know if the kid wasn't like one of those kids? He couldn't. He made a decision and unfortunately, it was the wrong one. On the other side however, how long was the kid there? BY the time somebody called the police about the kid, he must've been there for a bit. It would've also taken at least 10 minutes for a cop to arrive at the playground. In all this time, the kid would've shot somebody at the playground if it was a real gun, which it wasn't. There were people at the playground so if the officer didn't see any of them harmed, he should've considered it being a toy gun, not a real one. Sadly, there have been to many cases of shootings that have made situations like this have irrationals jumping to conclusions.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@WA4TKG ... Sorry, I am one of those DREADED NRA members you obviously HATE.

Sorry, I wouldn't waste my mental energy hating YOU when I need that mental energy to think logically and clearly. An exponential increase in gun rage incidents/accidents (sometimes committed by juveniles) is logically incompatible with "open carry" laws. Your logic is broken - HATE is not acceptable substitute for logic.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Because the cost of your 'right' to own guns is that 5-6 year old kids get shot at school, and 12 year old kids get shot in the playground.

And yet that cost is lower than the number of children being killed because of Alcohol. Would you agree to give up Alcohol or would you say the current number of children being killed or being severely injured by an intoxicated adult is an acceptable cost so that recreational Alcohol remains legal?

even when those costs include the deaths of thousands of children every year.

Cleo you yourself defend the right for you to have the freedom to consume alcohol for recreational purposes even though it kills more children on a per capita basis than guns do.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Fadamor

You seriously think that's the "real issue" here?

A cop shot a child dead....

Yes I DO think that's the real issue here. If I'm a police officer and someone REGARDLESS OF THEIR AGE pulls a realistic "look and feel" gun out of their pants after being told to put their hands up, I will NOT wait for him to pull the trigger to see if it is a fake! What, the suspect was a child so that means the cops should wait and get shot first? Only if the cop is suicidal.

Therefore yes, I feel the issue is why this 12-year-old was given a pellet gun that looks100% identical to a lethal handgun and allowed to go to a playground with it. Until we find out where the Airsoft gun came from, we won't begin to understand why he was where he was WHEN he was.

The corollary issue is why the 12 year old decided to pull the gun out instead of obeying the command to raise his hands. Even if he had just frozen in fear and not moved at all, he'd still be alive today. But no, he decided to pull out the gun. Everything this kid did seemed designed to attract the police and then get shot.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Excuse the above lack of brevity in earlier posts. ..

Only a fully independent judicial review/inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the death of this boy will reach a conclusion and subsequent closure.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

And yet that cost is lower than the number of children being killed because of Alcohol.

When I see the name "noliving," I think of a vampire who preys upon the living.

I cannot think of a scenario where the cops are called, and end up killing a 12-year-old kid for pulling out a beer bottle. This not a matter of numbers, it is a matter of senselessness. It is sickly stupid to keep bringing up alcohol. The satanic logic you are using is this: "OK, so you get to keep the alcohol; and we get to keep guns."

No matter what the statistics are, a kid who brings a bottle of wine to a park and shares a few slugs with his friends is vastly different than a kid who brings a gun and starts firing slugs at them.

With the indulgence of the moderators, I believe I can articulate the perverse stupidity of your continually bringing up alcohol, in hopes that you'll finally see the light: the key metric is incidents per use. Most people handle an alcoholic beverage infinitely more times in a given period of time than they handle a firearm. A lot of people who are depressed and under tremendous stress will reach for a drink. Imagine what it would do to your stats if they reached for a gun instead? (As all too many do already...) Or if people handled guns as often as they handled an alcoholic beverage.

If alcohol was as remotely as dangerous as a firearm, storage procedures for beer and wine within a home would be vastly different. But we all know that's not the case. Hence we're left with the perverse ludicrousness of this argument from the blood-sucking gun-lovers.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Robyne HendersonNov. 25, 2014 - 01:30AM JST he was a 12 year old boy. that officer should have used some recourse other than shoot to kill. it used to be long time ago the police didn't shoot to kill.

If police are called to the scene on a report of a possible suspect with a weapon and you pull out something that looks passably like a gun, you’re probably going to be shot. If you are a parent and don’t instruct your child about this, you bear some of the responsibility. If you are an adult and you whip out a solid black airsoft toy handgun in front of the cops, you’ve pretty much extended the invitation for them to ensure you have a very bad day. The government’s ability to protect citizens from doing stupid things has historically been quite limited.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

We (America) are an extremely sick society.

Speak for yourself, sir.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Gun fanatics will circle these tragedies marching in iron rings of paranoia and selfish ignorance. Sometimes calling bereaved families late at night mocking their suffering as they did after the Newtown Slaughter, December 14, 2012.

This tragedy was caused by a twelve year old doing three things wrong. Threatening (prompting the 911Emergency Call), Concealing (as Officers approached) and Pulling the weapon on an officer. Anywhere in America, and at any age, these three choices will get you shot. When the investigation is done it will prove threatening, concealment and brandishing a weapon out of concealment were the reasons the Officer fired. Exactly as he was trained and certainly within the experience of a twelve year old with access to a TV set.

The problem with the Second Amendment is, it equips the least able to govern their behavior or impulses with the deadly weapons that make Police Training an essential survival tool and this boy's death a predictable outcome. The inevitable conveyor belt of Americans slaughtering Americans brings great wealth to merchants of death and a steady flow of children's bodies to the morgue. And some still think that is their "right".

0 ( +2 / -2 )

kcjapanNov. 24, 2014 - 11:55PM JST This child might have been saved if the toy wasn't deliberately altered or if all toy guns are sold only in International Orange plastics.

The word "child" might be hard to distingush during confrontation. Whether or not such practices would make it easier for criminals to disguise actual guns as toys. That sort of maneuver could cast a moment of doubt in a police officer’s mind before drawing their weapons, giving potential cop killers an advantage.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Wait, hold on a second, so what you're saying is that a fatal shooting occurred in USA? But didn't that just occur now? And now? And now? And....

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The inevitable conveyor belt of Americans slaughtering Americans brings great wealth to merchants of death and a steady flow of children's bodies to the morgue. And some still think that is their "right".

I would suggest that you do a bit of research and look up the area where this incident occured and you will see from Cleveland police records that it is in an area that has seen an increase in crimes and other illegal activities. I won't bore you with the youtube video that is out made by some residents in the area that touts the gang life, but just google this:

:"#BBE Drama & #BBE Marii Jetz - My LiL" and watch the video, made by kids from the same area. So the cop is responding to a call in that area, what is he supposed to think? Some say taser him that may have worked but we don't know the full details yet. But, if he had been shooting up the park at that age, would you still be in an uproar and the people in the area would be saying that the police didn't respond quick enough to stop him.

Tragic event all around, but I do hope that the next time there is gun violence in this particular area, that as many eye witnesses come out and report what they have seen to the police so that they can catch the criminals and help the police rather than say nothing as I suspect may be the case in these areas all too often.

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@noliving:

And yet that cost is lower than the number of children being killed because of Alcohol

As always, children are mere statistics to adherents of the steel phallus death cult.

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I cannot think of a scenario where the cops are called, and end up killing a 12-year-old kid for pulling out a beer bottle.

It doesn't matter if you can or can't because it is irrelevant how the child dies, what matters is if the death is pre-mature and needless. A child that dies from Alcohol is just as premature and needless to society as a gun death.

This not a matter of numbers, it is a matter of senselessness. It is sickly stupid to keep bringing up alcohol. The satanic logic you are using is this: "OK, so you get to keep the alcohol; and we get to keep guns."

Yes it is partly a matter of numbers considering the numbers of children that die by gun deaths is used to try and severely restrict guns or prohibit them. Could you please explain again why a child's death caused by Alcohol is more necessary to society than a child dying by a firearm? I keep bringing up the number because of your, Strangerland, Cleo, and Smithinjapan sanctimonious attitude and using the numbers of gun deaths. You try to shame gun owners and yet you deliberately ignore and or refuse to stop engaging/condoning in any number of recreational activities that kill just as many people, especially children, than firearms.

Satanic logic please, your logic is that you simply don't approve of guns therefore no one should be allowed to have them or use them for recreational reasons. So yes that so called Satanic logic is my logic, it recognizes that people have different interests and different dislikes and in order to be fair to everyone if we say this recreational activity kills this many people and that number is unacceptable than every other recreational activity that kills this many people or more and has nearly as many participants and or engaged in just as frequently is also unacceptable. If you want to call that Satanic than so be it but in my humble opinion I would say it is a pragmatic logic.

No matter what the statistics are, a kid who brings a bottle of wine to a park and shares a few slugs with his friends is vastly different than a kid who brings a gun and starts firing slugs at them.

No kidding, just like how a kid who takes a gun with him to a gun range and shares the gun with his friend under adult supervision at the range is vastly different than one who opens fire on them. Just like how a young teenage male who brings a bottle(s) of wine on a date so he can get his date intoxicated to the point he can molest/rape her/him and possibly kill her/him is vastly different than one who brings a bottle of wine to just enjoy a romantic date.

With the indulgence of the moderators, I believe I can articulate the perverse stupidity of your continually bringing up alcohol, in hopes that you'll finally see the light: the key metric is incidents per use. Most people handle an alcoholic beverage infinitely more times in a given period of time than they handle a firearm.

Conjecture. Love to see the evidence of legal gun ownership vs legal consumption of Alcohol. Just so you know the average american age 15 and older consumes the equivalent of 31 glasses of wine or 9.4 litres each year. In an average year the USA civilian market will sell 7-10 billion rounds of ammo to civilians. However though ammo sales for the past six years have exceeded 10 billion+ rounds. Here is a better comparison the number of bullets fired vs the number of alcoholic beverages consumed.

A lot of people who are depressed and under tremendous stress will reach for a drink. Imagine what it would do to your stats if they reached for a gun instead? (As all too many do already...) Or if people handled guns as often as they handled an alcoholic beverage.

More conjecture/presumption, here Yabits lets do this comparison. The amount of bullets fired vs the number of drinks consumed. You know as well as I do that most people will go to a gun range and fire hundreds if not 1,000+ bullets each time they go to the range. Do people who go to a bar consume hundreds of drinks or thousands of drinks or even hundreds of fluid ounces in one sitting?

Also according to the suicide rates of the USA the USA has basically the same suicide rate as the UK, and well lets see here Japan has a higher suicide rate than the combined homicide and suicide rate of the USA. In fact the USA suicide rate is basically average when compared to the rest of the developed world. So we don't really have to imagine seeing as we already have the stats.

If alcohol was as remotely as dangerous as a firearm, storage procedures for beer and wine within a home would be vastly different.

It is, the statistics bare that out plain as day, more children and adults die in developed countries from Alcohol on a per capita basis than guns kill children and adults on a per capita basis in the USA. The reason why the storage procedures are not different is because of ignorance or because they are not ignorant and are deliberately making the decision that the current number of deaths caused by Alcohol is acceptable.

So for the mods reading this and wondering how this relevant to the topic the answer is quite simple, Cleo, Strangerland, and Yabits have been trying to shame gun owners over the number of children and adults killed due to firearms. I'm just simply pointing out that if they want to make such comments they should first look at their own lives and ask themselves if they participate or condone any recreational activity that kills just as many if not more children and adults on a per capita basis and if they are OK with severely restricting or prohibiting such products.

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BlobfishNov. 25, 2014 - 02:36AM JST Sadly, there have been to many cases of shootings that have made situations like this have irrationals jumping to conclusions.

Cops jumps to conclusions quickly due to the fact that over 1,500 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty during the past 10 years. That's average of one death every 2-1/2 days or 150 per year. It's a dangerous job.

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Conjecture. Love to see the evidence of legal gun ownership vs legal consumption of Alcohol. Just so you know the average american age 15 and older consumes the equivalent of 31 glasses of wine or 9.4 litres each year. In an average year the USA civilian market will sell 7-10 billion rounds of ammo to civilians. However though ammo sales for the past six years have exceeded 10 billion+ rounds. Here is a better comparison the number of bullets fired vs the number of alcoholic beverages consumed.

Just pathetic, Noliving.

You should be comparing each bullet to the number of alcohol molecules per sip. Glad to see you reaching so far.

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The kid didn't have a lethal weapon. It was a toy gun. But, how well would you react if you were faced with a similar situation.

I'm not criticising what the policeman did at all. Given the circumstances, he may have reacted in the only way possible.

Also, what type of area was the police responding to? Was it an area that was known for higher crime rates.

Yes, it was America. Well known for gun crime.

for those who do manage to keep them secured, and follow proper procedures, why should we have to adhere to your beliefs and not be able to own one?

Because having a society where it isn't totally unthinkable that a child might have a gun in a public park leads to children getting shot dead and policemen doing their duty having to live the rest of their lives knowing they killed a child.

...and we have the endless guns vs drink whine again. Alcohol has a myriad of legitimate, beneficial uses; in addition to recreation, it's used in cooking, has religious uses, acts as a disinfectant and/or cleanser; it's a fuel, forms the basis of perfumes and some vegetable essences. The only use a gun has is to intimidate and kill. So yes, it's perfectly reasonable to bring up alcohol every time yet another kid gets shot and killed in America - if you're a gun fanatic. For normal people, no.

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How this story continues depends on the skin color of the police officer. If he is black, the story will go away with a yawn. If he is white, look forward to the usual screaming orgy.

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And yet that cost is lower than the number of children being killed because of Alcohol.

Apples and oranges. It's a false equivalency.

You seem to be trying to say that because alcohol is legal, and kids die from alcohol related incidents, guns should be legal. What? That makes absolutely no sense. It's simply an attempt to distract from the subject at hand.

The fact is that every single gun owner in America is partially responsible for the death of this boy. Gun owners in America have decided that they are ok with kids dying, as the price to pay for their 'right' to own a gun. This has nothing to do with alcohol, and the legality (or illegality) of alcohol does not justify gun ownership whatsoever.

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We keep alcohol out of the hands of kids, but market guns to them.

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Grand Jury has decided not to indict Officer Wilson.

For once, justice was not held hostage to public opinion.

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@ Mennonite Maiden: I guess you have seen what's going on in Ferguson, MO. By the way, the cops are using rubber bullets and bean bag guns and guess what, the looters are still rampaging. So I guess if you were there, and your property was being threatened, you would be happy with the police's less than lethal attempts to stop the violence and if your property is lost, its for the common good.

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American police have been killing children in recent years. Senior and mentally ill as well.

An Internet search shows the stunning and sad results.

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the looters are still rampaging

Not looters, insensitive jerk. They are undocumented shoppers! Be more politically correct and there will be less crime.

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The video has been released.

It appears that the cops blow this kid away within 5 seconds after they appear on the scene. Seriously.

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I saw it too, Yabits. It was heartbreaking. Within LITERALLY 5 seconds of arriving on the scene they shot to kill a 12 year old kid who was wielding nothing more than a toy. What on earth is the world coming to when people excuse and condone that? Jesus wept!

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Yes, within 5 seconds, this 12-year-old used super-speed to attack the cops as they came on the scene, threatening to overturn their car and pummel them all to death. His first strike could have been fatal.

They had to kill him as they were in total fear for their lives.

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Have you ever looked down the barrel of a gun? Not a sight I want to see again.

I've looked down the barrel of a gun, more than once - and much closer that this policeman was to this kid. And I would have waited at least until he went to point the gun at me before shooting. If my gun was trained on him already, I would have plenty of time to shoot before he could line up his aim. Not to mention having a police car to hide behind....

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It brought me to tears. I have my own 12 year old, his parents must be beyond heartbroken. And still people want to excuse the cops who did not even shoot to wound, or stun him, or TALK to him. He didnt even have a chance to tell them it was a toy. I hate the world. Its a sick evil place.

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I wrote before that 'Given the circumstances, he (the policeman) may have reacted in the only way possible.' After having seen the video, I take that back.

The police car drove up, the boy went down almost immediately. There was no attempt to talk to him from a distance calling on him to drop the 'weapon'. If I were the parent of that boy I think I would want the policeman's head on a platter.

If the policemen though the boy had a real gun and was acting in a dangerous manner, why did they drive right up to him?

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How this story continues depends on the skin color of the police officer. If he is black, the story will go away with a yawn. If he is white, look forward to the usual screaming orgy.

The best way in America not to get shot by the police (or anyone) is obviously to be white. A white child is obviously playing with a toy gun. A black kid obviously has a real gun. A white person walking through a middle class housing development goes unimpeded, whereas a black guy gets shot by the local self-appointed militia. And I think an unarmed white guy would probably not have be shot in Ferguson.

Of course, none of those pulling the trigger will ever be punished, but those people only died because of their skin colour.

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I hate the world. Its a sick evil place.

Believe me, LaWren, I wrestle with this feeling a lot. The hearts of so many people -- especially in my own country -- seem to be so craven to rush to absolve senseless killings like this one.

These cops made a conscious decision to roll right up next to this kid. Purposely not allowing themselves or the kid any margin for a benefit of a doubt. It is like America is at war with itself, and kids like this are an enemy to be blown away to be on the safe side.

A white person walking through a middle class housing development goes unimpeded, whereas a black guy gets shot by the local self-appointed militia.

The black kid is suspected of not belonging there. But the fact is that he was living there.

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I am not sure there is even an answer, Yabits, I suppose all anyone can do is their best not to make it an even worse place to be. People who are otherwise perfectly decent people rushing to defend the killing of a 12 year old playing with a toy gun just confounds me.

The police said they called out 3 times to drop the gun. How? In 2 seconds how did they manage to do that? Why didnt they pull up from a distance and talk to him from behind the safety of their car? It actually breaks my heart.

It made me so angry when the police described Tamir as a "young man" in their press conference. He was 12. A boy.

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I feel so bad for americans. always having to live in fear

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Very sad situation. But one has to ask, why was this little boy dressed as he was and brandishing what looked like a gun. And why didn't he just raise his hands when asked to? Didn't he or whoever was responsible for him stop to think what could happen? Why did the police have to shoot to kill? As so many have said, I am so glad I don't live in the USA.

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Still wishing JT would fix the headline on this article.

Not one shot, so if it's supposed to be a noun, then "boy with fake gun dies after shots" or if a verb then "boy with fake gun dies after being shot" or "..boy with fake gun shot to death" by Ohio officer.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

this is what you get when your gun control laws are so lax, the police have to automatically treat any gun as live rather than fake, the guns are so life like you have a split decision to make your mind up, and add to the equation that the orange muzzle indicator was removed, well, there is only going to be one outcome, the moral of the story is teach your kids not to go waving a gun around in public!! may be the police could have given him a warning to "FREEZE!" or hands up, the cops in this situation properly over reacted.

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The video display of this toy gun looked like real. Often there is an article that report a child brings a gun to school and scare others. Also stories about tteachers who tried to take gun away get shot. 12 years old is usually taller than Japanese.

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The gun did not look real, Toshiko, even the person who called it in said they didn't think it was real. He was not in a school and people were only "more scared" because he was a young black male. What poppycock are you talking about. He was 12, the fact that Japanese are generally a shorter race of people is neither here nor there. A boy, a little boy with a toy is dead, and you have no condolences to pay to his parents? Not a decent word about his violent painful death, or the fact they didnt even get help to him immediately when he was laying shot in the stomach.

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Police said the weapon was an “airsoft” type replica gun that resembled a semi-automatic handgun. The orange safety indicator had been removed, police said.

I wrote my observation' No one wrote this boy was black. Not even color of the cop.

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Toshiko, what you wrote was an excuse for a cop to shoot a 12 year old boy with a toy gun. Ive seen more realistic guns for sale in Nakano Broadway. There is no excuse.

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Just pathetic, Noliving. You should be comparing each bullet to the number of alcohol molecules per sip. Glad to see you reaching so far.

Lol OK Yabits, your argument was to compare the number of times people handle alcohol vs the number of times they handle a firearm. That is not a very good comparison, for example what is a better comparison when measuring pilots or drivers, the number of times they get behind the controls/wheel or the number of hours they spend driving/flying and or the number of miles traveled between accidents?

Here let me demonstrate this to you, lets say you have a driver that travels from Minneapolis to Dallas using the interstate and only stopping to refuel the tank, most vehicles get anywhere between 400-600 miles per tank, trip distance is around 1000-1200 miles so they get behind the let say 3 times at most, now compare it to someone who has a 10 mile commute each way, so they travel 20 miles a day and they get behind the wheel twice and lets say you do that for 5 days. That comes out to 100 miles traveled and getting behind the wheel 10 times.

Which is a better determination of how safe driving is? The number of miles traveled or the number of times getting behind the wheel?

Lets say you have a pilot that has a route from Tokyo to Honolulu, just over 3,800 miles or 8-9 hours of flying vs a pilot that flies from from Minneapolis to Dallas, than two days later flies from Dallas to Minneapolis, so the pilot has traveled around 2200 miles and spent about 5 hours in the air and gone behind the controls of an airplane twice.

Which one is a better determination? The number of times the pilot went behind the controls or the number of miles flown/hours spent flying?

A better comparison is the number of Alcoholic drinks consumed for each death and the number of bullets discharged for each death. Just like how a better comparison for traffic deaths is the number of miles traveled vs the number of times they get behind the wheel.

Apples and oranges. It's a false equivalency. You seem to be trying to say that because alcohol is legal, and kids die from alcohol related incidents, guns should be legal. What? That makes absolutely no sense. It's simply an attempt to distract from the subject at hand.

No it is not apples and oranges and not it is not a false equivalency. They are both premature deaths and they are both needless deaths, the products are both used primarily for recreational purposes.

What I am saying Strangerland is that if you are going to act sanctimonious and try to shame gun owners than it would be in your best interests to not condone a recreational product or a recreational behavior that kills just as many if not more children and adults on a per capita basis than firearms. Pointing out someone's hypocrisy and that their argument of "it's for the children" is not genuine and that their motivation for wanting to prohibit guns is rather they just simply don't approve of it therefore no one should be allowed to own this product or engage in this behavior is not an attempt to distract from the subject at hand.

The fact is that every single gun owner in America is partially responsible for the death of this boy. Gun owners in America have decided that they are ok with kids dying, as the price to pay for their 'right' to own a gun. This has nothing to do with alcohol, and the legality (or illegality) of alcohol does not justify gun ownership whatsoever.

Yes they do just like how every person who condones alcohol and consumes alcohol is partially responsible for the deaths of children that die due to Alcohol. You condone recreational consumption of Alcohol do you not? Does not Alcohol kill more children on a per capita basis in the USA than firearms do on a per capita basis?

If the answer is yes to both, which it is, than who are you to shame gun owners and who are you to claim you are better than gun owners morally and finally who are you say that gun owners should give up their guns when you yourself are not willing to give up Alcohol?

The legality of Alcohol for recreational consumption does justify gun ownership if they are both primarily owned and used for recreational purposes which they are. If you can say that the number of children dying for recreational consumption of Alcohol is acceptable than recreational gun owners can say the same for guns.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

OK Yabits, your argument was to compare the number of times people handle alcohol vs the number of times they handle a firearm. That is not a very good comparison

Yeah. Because the water is often muddied in that some people get drunk and reach for a gun.

It is not a good comparison because I can sit and look out a window on the world, or listen to good music with a glass of wine (or cup of sake) or good whisky in my hand -- and can't even begin to imagine of replacing it with a gun.

You condone recreational consumption of Alcohol do you not?

Yes. The Proverbs say that wine is a gift from the Most High that gladdens the hearts of men. He changed water into wine, not weapons. The production of alcohol is a natural process of fermentation. The production of firearms is something I would consider worthy of Lucifer's children.

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It is not a good comparison because I can sit and look out a window on the world, or listen to good music with a glass of wine (or cup of sake) or good whisky in my hand -- and can't even begin to imagine of replacing it with a gun.

Yes it is a good comparison and it is a better comparison than yours. You never did answer my questions, what is a better comparison, the number of times someone gets behind the wheel or the number of miles driven between accidents or motor vehicle related deaths? The number of times a pilot gets behind the controls of an airplane or the number of hours spent flying/number of miles flown between aircraft accidents or aircraft related deaths?

You can look out a windows on the world and listen to good music and target shoot all at the same time.

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