14 Wisconsin lawmakers flee state to block anti-union bill

We are seeing ObamaCare in action here - "doctors" handing out bogus statements which allowe fellow public sector union members to take sick leave (on the taxpayers dime of course).Yep, if Obama and the collectivists are allowed to win your health care will be politicized within weeks. Count on it.

goodDonkey - With 70,000 strong the people are saying yes to full collective bargaining rights. This is looking more like a "W" in the Dems column.

Incorrect, it's reported that there were 70K protestors. That number includes "both" sides of the issue, not just the pro government union side.

Most of the taxpaying voters are calling or emailing their views to their elected representatives. The State has NO money. Demanding more money from the taxpayers isn't as popular as you seem to think.

This is looking more like a "W" in the Dems column.

The Dems have to return sometime, and when they do, that W becomes an L. Republicans have the votes they need to pass it. Easily. This really is a slap in the face of democracy. Indeed it shows they have absolutely no respect for the will of the people. Protesters being out there. Thats fine. Next election voting out those who passed it. Thats fine too. But trying to stall a vote by fleeing the state... Thats just despicable.

This is looking more like a "W" in the Dems column.

wishful thinking

Alphaape:

If they can't get their points across in a reasoned manner for stating their claims, and all they can do is run away, that says that they really have a weak point.

"That says" no such thing. They have a weak position not "a weak point." So strong is their point that they are willing to stand up to ridicule. You don't see the level of support they have attained from supporting a "weak point."

It is one thing to take away the right of Policemen to strike - along with other strategic jobs. But to take away the right to bargain is inconceivable. The dumbass Republicans constantly bitch about Obama's health care bill but they do not support the alternative either. Public workers have a right to bargain matters concerning their health care. Now I would expect some idiot to bring up that they already have health care. THEY GOT IT THROUGH BARGAINING!

With 70,000 strong the people are saying yes to full collective bargaining rights. This is looking more like a "W" in the Dems column.

Have to admit pretty interesting Media coverage on this. No mention that the Wisconsin "cheesebaggers" are predominately white, Governor Walker / Hitler posters were there and plenty of "Hate Speech" being riled up by left toward the Governor.

Don't forget, Jesse Jackson is there too, adding his voice in solidarity and saying that this is the same movment just like it was in Egypt (his words not mine).

Though I may not agree with the Dems and their plan, it just shows a bad performance for them to run away. If they can't get their points across in a reasoned manner for stating their claims, and all they can do is run away, that says that they really have a weak point.

I wonder if any of those Dems will get reelected in the next WI election. All their oppents (including in their own party) have to campaign on is that when things got tough, they ran away. They will not be able to live that one down.

Have to admit pretty interesting Media coverage on this. No mention that the Wisconsin "cheesebaggers" are predominately white, Governor Walker / Hitler posters were there and plenty of "Hate Speech" being riled up by left toward the Governor.

Very interesting indeed.

Teachers in Wisconsin make $$$ 100, 000 $$$$ / yr. when the bennies are figured in, and still get raises higher than the private sector has seen these last few years.

I read and heard that also. What is really missing and it shows how gullible we Americans are, if based on those reports about the average teacher salary in WI, that total compensation will be reported on their W2's (tax statements) in 2014. They will not be taxed on them, but in 2018 it will help the IRS more easily collect a tax on the so-called "Cadillac" health insurance policies, those that cost significantly more than the national average. The Cadillac tax goes into effect in 2018.

So, the teachers will be getting better health benefits compared to the private sector, but come 2018, they will have to pay a new Federal Tax.

Obamacare was backed by the National Teachers unions, so they basically sold them out.

Teachers in Wisconsin make $$$ 100, 000 $$$$ / yr. when the bennies are figured in, and still get raises higher than the private sector has seen these last few years.

Democrats, enraged that Republican politicians are doing what they were elected to do.

This Republican governor, Walker sounds like a real dirty bastard! I hope the unions win this!!!

Watching a few clips on the news and listening on the internet radio, a few protestors have the gov. of WI compared to Hitler. Before this devolves into a Rep (Tea Party) vs. Dems, why is it fine for the Dems and unions to label people as Hitler or Mubarak, when their main argument is that those are the tactics of the right and we should have more civil discourse.

I don't mind them protesting, but keep it civil and to the point.

"Unions still could represent workers, but could not seek pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum. Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized"

@paulinusa: Look at the last sentence. Suppose you were a teacher and you had a choice to vote for candidate A or B. You firmly believe in the principles of candidate A, and decide to vote for him. But the union is backing candidate B. They are contributing to his campaign fund. How do they get this money? From your dues, since the union is not a business in a since it raises capital. It raises funding by member donations. Donations which teachers have to pay regardless. Sure they may have a convention and express an opinion, but when was the last time you saw a unioin back a candidate based on the actual desires of its members.

Looking at the first sentence. It does not mean that the union members will not get pay raises, but that they are tied to the CPI, as is the case with most private sector jobs. So they could get the full CPI amount or less, depending on the budget of the state amd it's ability to pay.

Unions force members to pay dues. Tell me, if you worked for a company and they backed a candidate that you did not like, and believed in policies you did not care for, do you really want to keep funding them? Also, with the amount of workforce laws in place and the number of lawyers, it is not like in the old days of sweatshops and horrible working conditions. Businesses can be fined by the government for not having a safe work environment and for other cases of employee abuse. As a matter of fact, the unions main point is to bring these exact laws to empoyers when members file a grievance.

This isn't a case of a union demanding a larger share of a private companies profits. The teachers union is demanding that the taxpayers pay more to cover their salaries, benefits and the loans. State governments need to cut expenses. That includes the teachers. The other option is to fire 5,000 plus teachers." Boom! arrestpaul has the post of the day. Cut, dry, and simple explanation to a very simple problem. The union members themselves it seems don't even know what they are marching for.

GJDailleult - Problem is this issue has nothing to do with the quality of education in the USA and the role of unions　in creating whatever problems exist. This is just an ideology based, fact-free attack on unions, and another chance to push

the economically illiterate myth of the "private sector taxpayer who earns the money, and now can't afford to pay anymore to support the public sector leaches".

My advice is to learn what the word infrastructure means, and learn what money is, where it comes from and how it is created before you completely kill your country.

Where does the money to pay the salarys and benefits of teachers come from? The taxpayers, that's who. Where does the money come from to pay the interest on the loans that the State of Wisconsin has to take out to meet its obligations. Also from the taxpayers.

This isn't a case of a union demanding a larger share of a private companies profits. The teachers union is demanding that the taxpayers pay more to cover their salaries, benefits and the loans.

State governments need to cut expenses. That includes the teachers.

The other option is to fire 5,000 plus teachers.

Problem is this issue has nothing to do with the quality of education in the USA and the role of unions　in creating whatever problems exist. This is just an ideology based, fact-free attack on unions...

Sorry GJ. You oftimes make some good points, but here, you are completely lost. Here are some facts. In states with strong unions, teachers cannot be fired without great effort. Meaning, if a teacher is doing a poor job, they continue to be employed. What people here are saying, is that they want schools to run more like the private sector. If you do a good job, you are rewarded, if you don't, you either are punished, or lose your job. Merit based employment. Removing collective bargaining is the key to this. These are the facts. Whats fact free is the hysterical union response to being asked to pay part of their own health insurance, and 401k. The cuts being talked about are very, very moderate. And making these cuts will help the states budget. Union officials insisting that this is the end of the world. That their very human rights are being infringed... I could go on and on.

Problem is this issue has nothing to do with the quality of education in the USA and the role of unions　in creating whatever problems exist. This is just an ideology based, fact-free attack on unions, and another chance to push the economically illiterate myth of the "private sector taxpayer who earns the money, and now can't afford to pay anymore to support the public sector leaches".

My advice is to learn what the word infrastructure means, and learn what money is, where it comes from and how it is created before you completely kill your country.

The school districts and the state boards of education are running out of money and the ideas for improving curriculum and instructions.

If money were the problem it would have already been solved. The U.S spends on average 3 grand more per student than OECD average at the elementary, secondary, and post secondary level and a higher percentage relative to GDP. Heck, most of Europe spends half of what the U.S does on education, and pay their teachers less, and have less facilities yet they consistently outperform the U.S.

Heck, they dropped two billion dollars in Kansas City schools in 1999 as part of Missouri v. Jenkins which, at it's heart, was a noble enough case. They built top of the line computer labs, libraries, increased teacher salaries, streamlined classrooms...and test scores went down, the drop out rate rose, schools failed to meet standards and lost accreditation, and now half of their schools are closing due to underperformance and mismanagement. So money isn't the problem and there are plenty of ideas, government officials and those controlling the schools just won't go through with them.

I did not learn to read by being taught and neither did most other people.

I'm not talking about learning to read, I'm talking about reading at grade level. Many high school students in the U.S read at a fourth grade level, it is the responsibility of the teachers to ensure students are kept up to speed in their reading. If a student can't keep up he should be kept back a grade, not as a punishment for the student but so that he gains an actual understanding of the material. Instead most teachers pass them along.

When my niece and nephews stayed with me for the summer they were all underperforming in school. After 4 weeks and some mileage put on my library they were up to speed in math and reading, plus they learned how to fill out reconcile bank statements real fast (some call it child labor, I call it enrichment). I shouldn't have had to do that, if they had leaning problems that would be one thing but their schools hadn't even tried.

Trying to make unions the scapegoat for a system that fails so many of our young people is what is abhorrent.

It's not a scapegoat they aren't solely to blame but they are to blame, the entire system is a failure from the Department of Education as a whole down to district administration, state legislation, school officials, unions, everything is messed up.

And who do your think influences the legislature through strikes, protest, and campaign contributions?

Regarding the educational curriculum, it's the companies that produce the textbooks and materials. The teachers unions have next to nothing to do with it.

Honestly, the number of students reading at grade level is abhorrent and that IS the fault of the teachers.

No. It is not. I did not learn to read by being taught and neither did most other people. I learned by (at first) being read to, and then by reading on my own.

Trying to make unions the scapegoat for a system that fails so many of our young people is what is abhorrent.

ubikwit:

" teachers are a part of the once core system of compulsory education "

I don´t think anybody suggested eliminating teachers or ending compulsory education.

it is a simple divide and conquer strategy by the empire party!

teachers are a part of the once core system of compulsory education that served to unite student of the pluralistic society of the usa behind the common shared values of american citizens.

now some of the posters here group them into "private interest" groups, and apparently think that education is something that only properly propertied members of society are worthy of partaking.

aside from the fact that the teachers represent an aspect of the system set up by government to serve and maintain the PUBLIC INTEREST, the right to collective bargaining is such a fundamental thing that even if this so-called republican governor could muscle it through, it wouldn't stand up under the court challenges--one would assume.

and since the blue blue collar work force in the private sector of the usa has basically been being phased out by technocrat following the beat of the white-collar corporate types who want to make the usa the world's leading service sector economy in the global pecking order, it is up to public service sector employees like these teachers to rectify the situation.

The teachers unions are a pretty powerful private interest group, oh wait, I forgot. Only greedy corporations and individuals looking out for their own best interests fell into that horrible title.

They are NOT the same agents. You just sound like a current House Speaker who just began to show his true colors this week.

Honestly, the number of students reading at grade level is abhorrent and that IS the fault of the teachers

Oh really? Is that all teachers' fault? I highly doubt it. Many schools are in dire need of teachers who are competent enough to teach classes to a bunch of students, but they can't. The school districts and the state boards of education are running out of money and the ideas for improving curriculum and instructions.

"The state is not trying to do away with the union, but trying to gain back control from the union on certain areas."

"It doesn't appear that the Govenor and State legislature is trying to end "collective bargaining"."

This stuff is nonsense. What part of "his plan to end most collective bargaining rights." do you guys not understand? Collective bargaining is the essence of a union, without which it ceases TO BE a union. If don't agree or don't like unions, fine, but don't pretend that this is something other than what it is: breaking up the union.

"Texas leads - if it's real jobs and economic growth you are actually talking about..."

Suggest you do some research on their gigantic budget deficit est. at 15 billion+.

Oh and county rather than country in the bit about school choice. Little fidgety on the keyboard, tax season's got me wired on Red Bull and Coffee from 6am-10pm most days.

Complete and utter baloney. Teachers teach the curriculum foisted on them NOT by unions, but by state and local boards of education.

And who do your think influences the legislature through strikes, protest, and campaign contributions? The teachers unions are a pretty powerful private interest group, oh wait, I forgot. Only greedy corporations and individuals looking out for their own best interests fell into that horrible title.

The entire system of education is broken. Teachers unions block any proposed voucher programs despite their success in other countries, they resist any measure that would make it even marginally easier to remove a teacher from their post, and a disgustingly large number of students are failing to meet even the ridiculously low standards that the state and local boards of education set. Honestly, the number of students reading at grade level is abhorrent and that IS the fault of the teachers. In my own community they recently protested a proposed measure that would switch students from semesters to trimesters and increase their workloads. That got struck down. Another measure would allow students to select what school to go to within the country rather than being locked in by geography. That was also struck down. Forcing teachers to go through evaluations that could result in their firing if underperforming, struck down. Teachers unions are in it for the teachers, not the students.

Mod, please strike my post at 3:00 a.m. Hit the submit button a bit to soon and messed up my quote.

Complete and utter baloney. Teachers teach the curriculum foisted on them NOT by unions, but by state and local boards of education. The entire system of education is broken. Teachers unions block any proposed voucher programs despite their success in other countries, they resist any measure that would make it even marginally easier to remove a teacher from their post, and a disgustingly large number of students are failing to meet even the ridiculously low standards that the state and local boards of education set. Honestly, the number of students reading at grade level is abhorrent and that IS the fault of the teachers. In my own community they recently protested a proposed measure that would switch students from semesters to trimesters and increase their workloads. That got struck down. Another measure would allow students to select what school to go to within the country rather than being locked in by geography. That was also struck down. Forcing teachers to go through evaluations that could result in their firing if underperforming, struck down. Teachers unions are in it for the teachers, not the students.

Teachers unions have blocked any attempt to reform the educational system in the U.S for years and the result is generation after generation of idiots that need to play catch up in college or totally lose out to foreign skilled workers.

Complete and utter baloney. Teachers teach the curriculum foisted on them NOT by unions, but by state and local boards of education.

Whatever the positives and negatives of unions, and there are both, the only important fact is that the USA's problems have absolutely ZERO to do with unions.

Teachers unions have blocked any attempt to reform the educational system in the U.S for years and the result is generation after generation of idiots that need to play catch up in college or totally lose out to foreign skilled workers.

Wisconsin has very good schools

Compared to what? No, as far as I'm concerned as long as the U.S lags behind most of Europe and Asia the entier educational system in the U.S is a collosal failure. Granted that Wisconsin does better when compared to the U.S average I say that a decent state in a failing country is still a failing state.

Really? Please read carefully:

Yeah, it says they require an annual vote. Which makes sense, if the people in the union don't want to work in a unionized workplace they shouldn't have to and if they don't want to pay dues they shouldn't have to. They just won't get the benefits of the Union's lawyers and such in case their fired, sounds fair to me.

And I would have loved to vote out my union when I was still in one. 20%, I can't even make this crap up, 20% of my partime wages went to the union and I never once needed to use any of their services. Hell, the actually made it harder for me to make money by capping my hours per day, hours per week, and hours per pay period to 8, 30, 50 respectively and I wasn't allowed to work overtime because they wanted more fulltime workers to have it.

Faced with a near-certain Republican victory that would end a half-century of collective bargaining for public workers, Wisconsin Democrats retaliated with the only weapon they had left: They fled.

It doesn't appear that the Govenor and State legislature is trying to end "collective bargaining". The State of Wisconsin simply doesn't have the money to continue to pay out more money than it takes in. The loans that the State now takes out to pay it's bills are bankrupting the State.

The teachers union is demanding that the legislature raise taxes to cover their benefits. The State doesn't make money on it's own, it's the taxpayers money that they're spending.

Wisconsin could fire 5,000 to 6,000 teachers instead. The teachers union could raise the dues on their remaining members to make up for the expected loss of union income.

Not true, when the states try to negotiate new contracts, because of the barganing agreement, the union comes in with the upper hand.

Republican definition of "upper hand": When your opponent comes to the bargaining table on an equal or near-equal footing.

"Nothing said about taking away their right to unionize."

Really? Please read carefully:

"Unions still could represent workers, but could not seek pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum. Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized"

Well you know civil servants need to turn profit too ....

This isn't about incremental givebacks, it's more like the state wants to render the unions powerless because they feel they have the opportunity.

Not true, when the states try to negotiate new contracts, because of the barganing agreement, the union comes in with the upper hand. In other words, one side has an advantage and if they don't like how the game is played they can take their ball home and end the game. All the states want to do is to be able to renogiate all terms. Nothing said about taking away their right to unionize.

Problem with the republicans is they want public services to be FREE, like if the gabbage collectors are a wee bit late, then they bit:^% about the lack of service , forgetting of course they are responsible for cutting the funding...........

Nothing to do with Rep or Dem. In CA, you pay your city and county taxes for garbage collection and other city upkeep. In cities like LA, ou have to pay an additional "trash pickup fee" so your garbage can get picked up. That is not right since you already pay for garbage collection from paying your city and county taxes. The extra "fees" (nice name for tax) are levied to help reduce budget deficits due to labor costs.

This Republican governor, Walker sounds like a real dirty bastard! I hope the unions win this!!!

These democrat "leaders" run away and not live up to their responsibilities much like the union lemmings that support them.

Wisconsin would be better off if they simply stayed away.

RR

"The state is not trying to do away with the union, but trying to gain back control from the union on certain areas."

This isn't about incremental givebacks, it's more like the state wants to render the unions powerless because they feel they have the opportunity.

It's called the National Health Service in England. And, though not without the odd problem here and there, it works pretty damn well. Still, if it were you, Sailwind, I wouldn't hesitate to hand over a few coins to ensure your complete recovery :)

I do already hand a few coins already it is called Medicaid they take a few coins out of every paycheck an American makes.....Medicaid is going broke by the way.

@sailwind

if I get sick you're going to fork over hard earned money to pay for my medical bills?

It's called the National Health Service in England. And, though not without the odd problem here and there, it works pretty damn well. Still, if it were you, Sailwind, I wouldn't hesitate to hand over a few coins to ensure your complete recovery :)

@Sailwind You obviously don't like government. There are a lot of folk like you out there, especially in the States. I suggest you all club together and buy a island where you can set up a society free of civil servants and the "public trough". When crimes are committed you can solve them yourselves, when people get sick you can treat them yourselves and when you get invaded you can defend yourselves. It'll be great! A combination of Lord of the Rings and The Road. Good luck.

Just want a Government one can actually afford........And one that knows who actually works for. Interesting point you made though, if I get sick your going to fork over hard earned money to pay for my medical bills? Would not want to treat myself when I have your cash backing me.

You're right. The taxpayers should elect officials who's job it is to set budgets for the govt including the civil servants. That would be a good system....

@Sailwind You obviously don't like government. There are a lot of folk like you out there, especially in the States. I suggest you all club together and buy a island where you can set up a society free of civil servants and the "public trough". When crimes are committed you can solve them yourselves, when people get sick you can treat them yourselves and when you get invaded you can defend yourselves. It'll be great! A combination of Lord of the Rings and The Road. Good luck.

They are free to negotiate those terms to get a good and fair, and free to bargain for them collectively -- if they believe it will get them the best deal.

Ummm...They negotiate with Government management or public servants that have already master feeding off the public trough and have put themselves into positions of management. That portion of the Govt is not unionized they are mangement.

My question to you...Who do public servants bargain with?

I think bargaining with other high ranking Govt public servants for a fair wage is redundant......Both should bargain with the ones that actually pay their wages.......The Taxpayer.

The joys of negotiating with the govt. If they lose the nego they just change the law. :0

The average civil servant wage in Wisconsin is some $46,000. Corporate management has got to be giggling about this chump change and the need for unions to protect even a minimum standard of living: they have their boards of directors to scratch their backs, all while their corporations can now act as "people" to rig the democratic process.

Interesting how the decline of American unions parallels the decline of American power. Causality I am not suggesting, but it should certainly give lie to the converse.

Problem with the republicans is they want public services to be FREE, like if the gabbage collectors are a wee bit late, then they bit:^% about the lack of service , forgetting of course they are responsible for cutting the funding...........

Simple question.......What profit does Government has or earn that gives oublic servants to right unionized and demand a bigger cut?

The question is not as simple nor as cut-and-dry as that. For example, the government and public servant might agree on a salary for, say, fighting fires. That salary represents a certain level of purchasing power that often will become eroded through inflation. Obviously, the way around that is through an agreement to keep one's purchasing power (ie: salary) at parity.

Naturally, the powers that be would love to keep paying the same salary with cheaper dollars. Fairness and justice demand otherwise.

Out of curiousity, are the people on the other side of the table (legislators and governors, in this case) able to bargain collectively?

They get to work collectively to set the rules for their pay and retirement. They supposedly answer to the people, but when you've got US Congressmen and women who are eligible for pensions after 5 years of service and can receive it as early as age 50, you've obviously got people in the position to give themselves the kind of deal that unions would dream of fighting over.

These legislators are in the "union of management" where the only ones at the table are themselves.

In addition to eliminating collective-bargaining rights, the legislation also would make public workers pay half the costs of their pensions and at least 12.6 percent of their health care coverage — increases Walker calls “modest” compared with those in the private sector.

Headline to the article is a bit misleading, but this is the real crux of the protests. The state is not trying to do away with the union, but trying to gain back control from the union on certain areas. We have all heard the stories of how teachers can't be fired due to their union contracts (watch the documentary "Waiting for Superman" and it explains it in detail). What the governor is trying to do is to strike this clause. Then they will be able to go into contracts with teachers that will allow the state to fire underperforming teachers, instead of having them on the payrolls just collecting a check and not doing anything for their students.

The other issue, having to pay a modest amount increas in their healthcare premium is just taking some of the burden off of the rest of the taxpayers. The teachers are still getting a great deal in terms of healthcare. In the private sector, you are paying much more than the teachers are.

Also, just a question. If the unions fought long and hard for Obamacare, why then are they upset that their members may have to pay an icrease in rates? Afterall, they were saying how Obamacare would provide coverage for the 40 million who dont' have it. If the teachers don't want to increase their costs, then the union should tell them to use Obamacare; but they seem not too interested in doing that.

I'm pretty sure we don't want civil servants working to create a profit, but I'm enjoying visualizing how that would turn out.... ;)

Civil servants (at least in my country) link their pay claims to inflation. Profit, obviously, doesn't enter into it. When a country's economy is prospering, why the heck shouldn't people who work for that country benefit?

No. A ridiculous point. Would you suggest that people who work for Toshiba are "servants" of Toshiba, and should therefore not be allowed to demand better pay/conditions from the company they "serve"?

Umm...If you work for Toshiba your wages are only paid because Toshiba is able to turn out a product that is profitable. You understand that means they have to compete and continue to try to make products that folks want to buy. If the workers feel that profit is to high and they demand a bigger cut through a union.....good on em.

Simple question.......What profit does Government has or earn that gives oublic servants to right unionized and demand a bigger cut?

Republican governor elected along with an overwhelming repub majority

No one gave them a mandate to bust unions. Now they are going to face the consequences. Bet on a Democratic governor and solid Dem majority the next election.

No. A ridiculous point. Would you suggest that people who work for Toshiba are "servants" of Toshiba, and should therefore not be allowed to demand better pay/conditions from the company they "serve"?

Out of curiousity, are the people on the other side of the table (legislators and governors, in this case) able to bargain collectively?

Never understood the concept that public workers needed a collective bargaining union. Public workers work as servants for the people and should have have never been in a position to be able to form unions in the first place. Now we have extortion through collective bargaining from the people, you know taxpayers that they are suppose to serve in the first place.

A very good point.

Faced with a near-certain Republican victory that would end a half-century of collective bargaining for public workers, Wisconsin Democrats retaliated with the only weapon they had left: They fled.

Never understood the concept that public workers needed a collective bargaining union. Public workers work as servants for the people and should have have never been in a position to be able to form unions in the first place. Now we have extortion through collective bargaining from the people, you know taxpayers that they are suppose to serve in the first place.

"But as ole Churchill said, we have not found a better way to govern."

Total rubbish

Yet another example of liberals shirking their duties.

RR

Demonstrates how democracy can get somewhat messy and boisterous at times. In a way, a very inefficient way to govern. Look at Japan as a clear example. But as ole Churchill said, we have not found a better way to govern.

Complete disrespect for the very thing democrats like to say they believe in - democracy. Republican governor elected along with an overwhelming repub majority in the legislature and these weasels run away from a quorum. Whats make it all the more galling is that the same Dems accusing Gov Walker of being a "dictator," in their well-known habit of projection, are on another point again showing their totalitarian colors - - they want to help the unions eliminate the the secret ballot in the workplace. Who are these Democrat party members? WHo do they serve? It is not the American people.

You have teachers/policemen and other union people thinking they are part of the elite politician class when they are rudely realizing they are not. This is a harsh reality for some and a FEMA camp for others.

Since Obama will not delete the TSA/FEMA and other wasteful programs we must all suffer while the Gov and military get bigger. They goal is to Federalize the States afterall.

Lets face it--Wisconsin leads the U.S. right now

Texas leads - if it's real jobs and economic growth you are actually talking about...

Fleeing Wisconsin in the winter? Sounds like common sense to me.

Lets face it--Wisconsin leads the U.S. right now. Packers won the Super Bowl, RNC chairman Reince Priebus (gotta make sure I don't mix that up with Prince Fielder) is from Wisconsin, the response to the state of the union address was from a Wisconsin politician, it has one of the best universities in the land, and the list just goes on and on.

Don't forget the beer, brats, and cheese--on the head or edible varities.

Heh, apparently when Obama said, "Elections have consequences" somehow doesn't apply to these Wisconsin democrats.

Funny, the article doesn't mention President Obama.

The people of Wisconsin are now realizing the extreme folly of electing union-busting Republicans. The scum who are using a temporary budget shortfall to destroy the peoples' right to collective bargaining on behalf of their corporate friends and donors.

Gee, a $130 million shortfall after giving over $140 million in tax credits to businesses. Do the math. Either those tax credits stimulate revenue the way the Republicans claim they will, or they won't which would prove the Repubicans are lying again and using middle-class workers as scapegoats.

Most non-elites do not get those type of perks.

Perhaps they should organize and fight until they get them. Their bosses in the "union of management" have them.

Typical Democrat contempt for our laws and politcal process.

Wisconsin has very good schools except for The city of Milwaukee. I am for this legal blockade as long as it gives people time to look at the situation and correct the problems. Let's find a real solution for this while other states/cities are closing schools (KC, Detroit etc) and dropping teachers at an alarming rate.

If no solutions can be found. -Then maybe all these union teachers will need to be fired. -Sort of like what happened at GM Janesville. That would be a horrible solution.

People need to realize that others cannot pay 100% for your pension and health care anymore. -Most non-elites do not get those type of perks.

Heh, apparently when Obama said, "Elections have consequences" somehow doesn't apply to these Wisconsin democrats.

RR

Whatever the positives and negatives of unions, and there are both, the only important fact is that the USA's problems have absolutely ZERO to do with unions. Anybody who thinks they do is delusional, anybody who is taking advantage of the present situation to push the same old crackpot ideological agenda is just plain nuts, and anybody using this stuff as a diversion from the real problem is a criminal.

I agree Smorkian

Fleeing is something liberals have a natural aptitude for.

Do you have something constructive to say about the issue, or just mudslinging?

It seems the people of Wisconsin should demand such a sweeping change that affects so many people be put to a direct vote. The 'public representatives' always like to sneak in controversial legislation at the beginning of terms in the hopes voters forget about them at election time. They have no stones for a real referendum.

Fleeing is something liberals have a natural aptitude for.

RR

Unions still could represent workers, but could not seek pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum.

So basically they'd still be getting pay raises at a responcible rate in an economy in which you're lucky if your salary even keeps pace with inflation. That doesn't sound anti-union, more like common sense. Wisconsin public schools suck, those teachers don't deserve a substantial pay raise anyway.

Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.

Sounds like a dream. I remember when I was a part time state employee. Every week the union took two hours but by contract I couldn't work more than thirty and most of the time I only worked ten, so twenty percent of my pay often went to the union. Plus I had to pay into the pension fund which I was ineligible for. So with several years of that crap under my belt I can say without hesitation that SEIU Local 517 can burn in hell.

Unions have a time and place, and in most instances it's neither here nor now. Teachers unions cheif among all is probably the most damaging to the U.S through its sabotage of any attempt to improve educational quality.