A man in handcuffs is led by police near Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School following a shooting incident in Parkland, Florida, Wednesday in a still image from video. Photo: WSVN.com via REUTERS.
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17 killed in shooting spree at Florida high school by expelled student

184 Comments
By Bernie Woodall

A 19-year-old gunman returning to a Florida high school where he had once been expelled opened fire with an assault rifle on Wednesday, killing 17 people and wounding more than a dozen others before he was arrested, authorities said.

The shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, a placid, middle-class community about 45 miles (72 km) north of Miami, ranked as the second-deadliest act of gun violence ever on a U.S. public school campus.

The attack began shortly before the school's dismissal.

Television footage showed images, increasingly familiar in America, of bewildered students streaming out of the building with hands raised in the air, weaving their way between heavily armed, helmeted police officers, as a fire truck and other emergency vehicles idled nearby.

Florida's two U.S. senators, briefed by federal law enforcement officials, said the assailant wore a gas mask as he stalked into the school carrying a rifle, ammunition cartridges and smoke grenades, then pulled a fire alarm, prompting students and staff to pour from their classrooms into hallways.

"There the carnage began," Senator Bill Nelson told CNN. Senator Marco Rubio gave a similar account on Twitter.

A chilling cell phone video clip broadcast by CBS News showed a brief scene of what the network said was the shooting in progress from inside a classroom, where several students were seen huddled or lying on the floor surrounded by mostly empty desks. A rapid series of loud gunshots are heard amid hysterical screaming and someone yelling, “Oh my God.”

The gunman was arrested later outside, some distance from the school in an adjacent community. CNN, citing law enforcement sources, said the gunman tried to blend in with students who were fleeing the school but was spotted and taken into custody.

He was identified as Nikolas Cruz, who previously attended the high school and was expelled for unspecified disciplinary reasons, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at a news briefing hours later.

As a high school freshman, Cruz was part of the U.S. military-sponsored Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corp program at the school, according to Jillian Davis, 19, a recent graduate and former fellow JROTC member at Stoneman Douglas High.

In an interview with Reuters, Davis recalled his "strange talking sometimes about knives and guns," adding, "no one ever took him seriously."

Chad Williams, 18, a senior at Stoneman Douglas, described Cruz as "kind of an outcast" who was known for unruly behavior at school, including a penchant for pulling false fire alarms, and was "crazy about guns."

The gunman surrendered to police without a struggle, Israel said. He was armed with an AR-15-style rifle and had multiple magazines of ammunition.

"It's catastrophic," Israel said. "There really are no words." Broward County Schools Superintendent Robert Runcie called it "a horrific situation,"

Twelve of the dead were killed inside the school, two others just outside, one more on the street and two other victims died from their wounds at a hospital, Israel said. He said the victims comprised a mixture of students and adults.

The sheriff said at a briefing after dark that investigators had so far positively identified just 12 of the dead, including a football coach he did not name.

Authorities at two nearby hospitals said they were treating 13 survivors for bullet wounds and other injuries, five of whom were listed in critical condition.

The Valentine's Day bloodshed in the racially diverse Miami suburb of gated communities with palm- and shrub-lined streets was the latest outbreak of gun violence that has become a regular occurrence at schools and college campuses across the United States over the past several years.

It was the 18th shooting in a U.S. school so far this year, according to gun control group Everytown for Gun Safety. That tally includes suicides and non-injury incidents, as well as a January shooting in which a 15-year-old gunman killed two fellow students at a Kentucky, high school.

Wednesday's violence marks the second-greatest loss of life from a shooting at a U.S. public school, after the 2012 massacre of 20 first-graders and six educators at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut, by a gunman who also killed his mother and himself.

It also is the deadliest ever at an American high school, surpassing the 1999 rampage at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, where two teenagers killed 12 students and a teacher before taking their own lives.

Staff and students told local media that a fire alarm went off around the time the shooting started, sparking chaos as some 3,300 students at the school first headed into hallways before teachers herded them back into classrooms.

One survivor, Kyle Yeoward, 16, a junior, told Reuters he and about 15 fellow students and a teacher hid in a closet for nearly two hours before police arrived. Yeoward said most of the shooting occurred in the building for the school's freshman class.

Anguished parents checked on their children.

"It is just absolutely horrifying. I can't believe this is happening," Lissette Rozenblat, whose daughter goes to the school, told CNN. Her daughter called her to say she was safe but had heard the cries of a person who was shot.

The school had recently held a meeting to discuss what to do in such an attack, Ryan Gott, a 15-year-old freshman, told CNN.

"My prayers and condolences to the families of the victims of the terrible Florida shooting," U.S. President Donald Trump said on Twitter. "No child, teacher or anyone else should ever feel unsafe in an American school."

The school, named for a famed Florida environmental activist and author, was to remain closed for the rest of the week, education officials said.

© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2018.

©2018 GPlusMedia Inc.

184 Comments
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The same as Japanese matri-patri-infanticide, really. It happens, it's disgusting, everyone grieves, lives are lost, someone talks about it for some days. Reset. The cycle keeps on going.

-17 ( +11 / -28 )

Again and again it happens. Horrific and sadly predictable.

25 ( +27 / -2 )

The right to bear arms is not an ultimate right and needs to be trimmed.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The right to bear arms is not an ultimate right and needs to be trimmed. Back in the day they shot muskets that took a minute to load and were as accurate as Abe's three arrows

Exactly. The right to bear arms is a fundamental right, like freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean it cannot be regulated. It means the government must have a compelling reason to regulate it (protecting students) and must use the least restrictive means to regulate it.

13 ( +22 / -9 )

Shootings and drugs are common articles in American medias. Yet, they never prohibit guns. If it is because they cannot trust others since America is a melting pot, Japan should remain conservative about immigration.

-7 ( +13 / -20 )

Another day, another school shooting in the US. And so it continues........

23 ( +24 / -1 )

As a 65 year old man who has seen a lot, watching 13 to 18 year olds running from the school with hands in the air like criminals makes me cry.

33 ( +34 / -1 )

sometimes glad I live in Japan

17 ( +19 / -2 )

Once again RIP to those innocents whose lives were taken, condolences to all who were close to them, and speedy recover to all who were injured.

Once again thank you to the police and all emergency responders. I’m sorry that you once again had to stop what you were doing to deal with another gun nut gone mad.

Once again I’m sorry that the community at large will have to pay for the police, emergency services, medial and judicial costs resulting from this. INCREASE TAXES ON ALL GUN AND AMMO PURCHASES! Make the gun USERS pay for their fellow user’s crimes.

"My prayers and condolences to the families of the victims of the terrible Florida shooting," U.S. President Donald Trump said on Twitter. "No child, teacher or anyone else should ever feel unsafe in an American school.”

In other words, Trump knows included in his base are the NRA, the hugely profitable gun industries they represent, and gun huggers. He’ll continue to pander to them and do nothing to limit in any way their access to even more guns and ammo. Except offer prayers. (Whatever that means)

The NRA’s connections to Russians should come as no surprise to anyone. Both are doing their respective best to bring the country down.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-07/the-nra-should-disclose-any-russian-ties

13 ( +18 / -5 )

 Nothing will happen without learning how to communicate with each other.

I wish I could agree, but each time a 'sensible response' is offered to the gun communities, it's met with a shrill response from the NRA. A case in point: the state of Washington wanted to restrict the importation and sell of ivory. The NRA and the gun communities were outraged, because that would mean they'd no longer be able to have ivory handle weapons. How about bump stocks?

23 ( +24 / -1 )

you all can argue how great guns are and how kids and psychos can buy them, I will live here not worrying if my kid will get shot up at school

17 ( +17 / -0 )

Exactly. The right to bear arms is a fundamental right, like freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean it cannot be regulated. It means the government must have a compelling reason to regulate it (protecting students) and must use the least restrictive means to regulate it.


No one is arguing guns should not be regulated, even Justice Scalia argued for that, and I'm sure more after this incident with 15 or 16 kids dead.

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

More kids probably would have been saved if they hid rather than checked on their cell phones for texting friends.

-33 ( +0 / -33 )

LizzToday  08:19 am JST

No one is arguing guns should not be regulated

A routine perusal of right-wing talking points on the issue will show a large number of people arguing exactly that, either explicitly in those words or implicitly by opposing every sensible gun regulation ever proposed.

24 ( +24 / -0 )

No one is arguing guns should not be regulated

No one? Even on this forum that's not what I've read. What percent of gun owners 'yell' the '...cold, dead hands' slogan. Please don't try to suggest that all gun owners have 'sensible responses' to the issue. And please don't expect people who can mimic the sound of a sucking chest wound and who have attended a funeral and watched 3 young children bawl their eyes at their mother's funeral to accept the everyone needs guns argument. And please don't even begin to say 'we shouldn't reason emotionally'. We ALL do.

19 ( +19 / -0 )

It was the 18th shooting in a U.S. school so far this year

Goodness, it's only February.

Gun control. End of.

24 ( +24 / -0 )

Nothing will change. Thoughts and prayers. Moving on.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

America seems cursed by guns. This is guns country's destiny.  More tragedies would happen in future unless giving up guns.

15 ( +15 / -0 )

The answer, according to some, is more guns in the classroom and that Japan should remain conservative as regards immigration.

I kid you not.

What a strange and sad world we live in.

17 ( +19 / -2 )

For non-Americans it might be hard to understand but the problem is actually simple. Guns have been legal in the US since the Boston Tea Party days because people needed to defend their homes from the British red coats. Now though, the argument is we can pass all the laws we want but if only the good people fillow then the bad people will be the only ones with guns. Which is true.

Frankly it is too late to ban guns. Which is why I live here where can send my child to school with the ease of mind that he won't get slaughtered by a mentally ill clown while he is at school. Thank goodness

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

It was the 18th shooting in a U.S. school so far this year

Goodness, it's only February.

it's only February.

In fact it's only the middle of February. An average of 12 shootings a month, 144 per year...

No. 1 in all the wrong things.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

A routine perusal of right-wing talking points on the issue will show a large number of people arguing exactly that, either explicitly in those words or implicitly by opposing every sensible gun regulation ever proposed.


I don't know what to say. What regulations are you looking for ? No one is for an underaged maniac threatening to kill people all over the Internet having access to firearms. It could also turn out to involve terrorism or an unknown political motive.

-18 ( +1 / -19 )

Yet another shameful day for a nation falling apart. Rest in Peace to all those innocent children. Eternal hell to those who do not support gun restrictions.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

Tragic, tragic, my heart goes out to all the families. At least they were able to apprehend the shooter. Florida is a death penalty state, so let the justice system take its course, this individual will stand trial and pay for his horrific crimes.

We don’t know yet what the motivating factor was in this shooting, what gun, how many rounds it holds, did he have a mental problem. The debate about banning guns, if it comes up (and it will, no doubt) we shall see. But until then, we shouldn’t rush to judgement.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

" SchopenhauerToday 07:36 am JST

Shootings and drugs are common articles in American medias. Yet, they never prohibit guns. If it is because they cannot trust others since America is a melting pot, Japan should remain conservative about immigration."

What on earth are you talking about? Please explain!

11 ( +11 / -0 )

The real culprits are both Liberal and Conservative.... both act like they care but neither really does anything but cater to greed. The Liberal culprit is Hollywood... at least in my opinion it is. For decades Hollywood has promoted gun violence on an ever increasing level. On the Conservative side... it is the National Rifle Association which has fought tooth and nail to preserve unfettered access to guns and even military style automatic weapons for all Americans.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

It's the killings that go On and On my friend, and it is never going to end.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

More Americans have died from domestic guns than the total of all American war deaths.

In fact at the current level it's like a Vietnam or Korean war per year. The statistics are staggering.

Yet the "It's Our Right-ists" keep refering to an archaic good old # 2 - the right to bear arms.

That's the scariest thing.

17 ( +18 / -1 )

It's a shame none of the teachers were packing so that one of them could have taken the shooter out quickly.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The same as Japanese matri-patri-infanticide, really. It happens, it's disgusting, everyone grieves, lives are lost, someone talks about it for some days. Reset. The cycle keeps on going.

Why on earth do you keep bringing up Japan in totally irrelevant ways? There is nothing the same about it at all. I get that you don't like Japan and feel the need to impart your wisdom if that's what it can be called but it's irrelevant. Just stop already.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Poor American kids, growing up in a society where the 'grown-ups' insist their right to shoot bambi is reason enough to turn every school into a potential bloodbath

We don’t know yet what the motivating factor was in this shooting, what gun, how many rounds it holds, did he have a mental problem. The debate about banning guns, if it comes up (and it will, no doubt) we shall see. But until then, we shouldn’t rush to judgement.

No, we shouldn't rush to judgement, must we? This killer may have had a perfectly sound reason for walking into a school and shooting kids. (rolls eyes)

Obviously he was a looney, no one else but a looney would think it was a good idea to shoot up a school.

So you have two problems; too many loonies in your society, and too easy access to guns for all those loonies.

Do something about it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

My prayers and condolences to the families of the victims of the terrible Florida shooting. No child, teacher or anyone else should ever feel unsafe in an American school.

Trump is likely as sincere about that as he is about his newfound concern over domestic violence. A few days from now, after the NRA and their cohorts have devised some sort of explanation that, like, totally doesn't involve the overwhelming presence of guns on America's streets, this talking point will be parroted on Fox, Trump will watch it, and that will become his new opinion.

In fact, if my kids had gone to school in America, I would have advised them that the SHOULD feel unsafe. Reality talks from parents always trump fairy tales.

17 ( +17 / -0 )

It's a shame none of the teachers were packing so that one of them could have taken the shooter out quickly.

Exactly. What's needed every morning is shooting practice for both teachers and students alike. They can be graded on it, as well. If a teacher or student fails, they can be expelled.

Of course, occasionally, when a shooter goes off - disciplining students, students fighting students, students fighting teachers, teachers molesting students - these incidents will have to be factored into grading and success rates.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It's a shame none of the teachers were packing so that one of them could have taken the shooter out quickly.

I don’t know that would be the best solution and I’m a very strong supporter and member of the NRA, however I do think there needs to be other backups and options that can and should equalize the situation or at least give the teachers and faculty members the upper hand so that we have less of these tragedies.

-27 ( +1 / -28 )

Florida is a death penalty state, so let the justice system take its course, this individual will stand trial and pay for his horrific crimes.

And ? What's going to change ?

What good will be out of killing that guy, expect merely primal vengeance ?

15 ( +15 / -0 )

When is the last time someone killed 17 teenagers at a school in Japan or Australia? Oh, that's right, it is harder to get guns in those countries, so it doesn't happen.

23 ( +23 / -0 )

When is the last time someone killed 17 teenagers at a school in Japan or Australia? Oh, that's right, it is harder to get guns in those countries, so it doesn't happen.

@1glenn, you clearing have no idea about Australia then mate, trust me getting firearms in Oz is just as easy as the US, we just are not mental like the guys in the US.

-12 ( +6 / -18 )

No, we shouldn't rush to judgement, must we? This killer may have had a perfectly sound reasonfor walking into a school and shooting kids. (rolls eyes)

We shouldn’t.

Obviously he was a looney, no one else but a looney would think it was a good idea to shoot up a school.

But knowing that he’s a loon is obvious, but what moved him to do such a horrific crime, what was the catalyst that pushed him over the edge. These are questions that must be answered.

So you have two problems; too many loonies in your society, and too easy access to guns for all those loonies.

Do something about it.

I think we have too many loons that’s for sure and they shouldn’t have access to guns, we need more mental facilities, that would help a lot, it’s a start.

-20 ( +1 / -21 )

Sad

That's all I can think to say.

RIP

6 ( +6 / -0 )

A question for those advocating teachers having their own weapons: Do you know how much training is needed in order to react to an active shooter situation without causing more carnage?

The answer: So much training that it would not allow the teacher's time to teach. The military and law enforcement are the only segment of society that are able to appropriately respond to such a dynamic situation, and even they cause collateral damage.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

I think we have too many loons that’s for sure and they shouldn’t have access to guns, we need more mental facilities, that would help a lot, it’s a start.

A more realistic/obtainable start would be strict federal firearms control laws. Identifying the mentally ill is far more difficult than identifying who buys what kinds of firearms.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Americans love guns. Guns equal shooting and killing. Therefore, Americans love shooting and killing. Can anyone fault that logic?

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I think we have too many loons that’s for sure and they shouldn’t have access to guns, we need more mental facilities, that would help a lot, it’s a start.

Yeah, let's lock up people who MIGHT be dangerous instead of taking away the weapons that ARE.

Either way, that's not the first time I've heard that solution. I've never seen pro-gun politicians act toward it though.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

So many billions spent on combatting terrorism but missing and/or ignoring the terror that goes on in American streets and schools nearly every day.

Some of my comments are sarcastic today. If that seems indifferent of me, it's not meant to be.

Just despairing at yet more loss of life.

And the refusal to move on the gun issue.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

But knowing that he’s a loon is obvious, but what moved him to do such a horrific crime, what was the catalyst that pushed him over the edge. These are questions that must be answered.

No, the question that must be answered is how this lunatic that got expelled from school got his hands on an AR-15-style rifle. And why people like you think that is perfectly OK.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

My sincerest condolences to the victims and their families.

The rest of the world is lucky we have America to look to as an example of how NOT to treat firearms and the laws regarding them.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

bass4funk:

But until then, we shouldn’t rush to judgement.

Of course not. Just wait until half the country shoots itself to death and then let's have a discussion about restricting guns to people who have been vetted.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Nothing will change.

Too many people love these filthy devices.

Deep down, I don’t think gun lovers really care about better mental health facilities or any other proposed solution.

Just make sure you let them have guns. Lots of them. Bloody big ones too.

What a sick situation.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

No, the question that must be answered is how this lunatic that got expelled from school got his hands on an AR-15-style rifle.


There is no excuse for ignorance in this day and age. When all the kids I can guarantee knew it would go down this way and only now are investigators reviewing social media postings that they have described as "very disturbing."

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

No, the question that must be answered is how this lunatic that got expelled from school got his hands on an AR-15-style rifle.

That's easy. He lives in America. Any more questions?

16 ( +16 / -0 )

Not sure why anyone is even surprised or upset about this? 18th of the year, so 2 per week, so not unexpected at all. Will be forgotten in a few days when the next one occurs

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Yeah, let's lock up people who MIGHT be dangerous instead of taking away the weapons that ARE. 

That would be a good first step.

Either way, that's not the first time I've heard that solution. I've never seen pro-gun politicians act toward it though.

They might change you never know, you never know.

-17 ( +0 / -17 )

Another American mass-shooting. This is benefiting my business tremendously, because we specialize in placing Japanese students in exchange programs with English speaking Commonwealth countries. Every time something like this happens in the US, we see an upsurge in the number of Japanese who have canceled their plans to go to the US and now wish to go to the UK/Australia/NZ or Canada instead.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

That would be a good first step.

If it's such a good idea, why don't the pro-gun politicians act on it?

They might change you never know, you never know.

Again, what's the hold up? If the pro-gun side wants to keep their precious toys, it's up to them to do something to make them safe.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

America is a very very sick society when it allows so many many of its young innocent children to be brutally killed in so many many numerous killings and people who quote their constructional rights and putting those rights before the lives of sweet little children are equally sick.

Where in the constitution does it state that people are allowed to buy and carry assault rifles. The right to bear arms does not mention the type of deadly weapons and was written in the days of musket weapons.

The 18th shooting this year on or near a school playground.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

That happens regularly in the US. Just read or listen to the news.


But what to do is the question. Policies aimed at reducing gun deaths will likely need to be targeted at the specific people who commit or are victimized by those incidents. And mass shootings are almost impossible to formulate statistically sound observations about since they differ in every way possible from everyday run of the mill homicides or suicides.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

Not sure why anyone is even surprised or upset about this?

Who are you seeing that is surprised by a school shooting in the US? Can you point to a single comment that expresses surprise?

With regards to people being upset... well forgive them for having sympathy for other human beings..

4 ( +7 / -3 )

But what to do is the question... And mass shootings are almost impossible to formulate statistically sound observations about since they differ in every way possible from everyday run of the mill homicides or suicides.

How about removing that one key factor that turns everyday run of the mill homicides or suicides into mass shootings?

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Sadly another mass shooting...

And PLEASE enough of this BS about people not guns kill, the US is so AWASH in weapons that this SIMPLISTIC line of thinking is utterly meaningless!!

And people saying teachers etc need to packing heat, just in case......WTF!! If you even have to contemplate such a thing you should be able to realize there is a REAL serious problem & try to fix it!!

Alas now we just wait until the NEXT & the NEXT etc etc mass shooting, US makes it SO EASY to kill others, please wake up & do something about it instead of trotting stupid lame excuses & bizarre lines of "reasoning".

And I say this as a guy who was around rifles as a kid, THANKFULLY north of the 49th parallel almost no one can legally own hand guns & assault type weapons & voila MUCH less gun violence, it can be done, not that hard....

10 ( +10 / -0 )

It seems that most Americans would never think about much stricter gun control seriously until wackos aiming guns at your face or until family members are killed. so tragedy happen again and again though they say never let them do it again.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

As I said above, non-Americans just say "ban guns" but it is too late. If you pass laws to ban guns in the US the good people lose their guns and the bad people who do not follow the law will terrorize them.

I am not pro-gun and I think NRA is silly, but in America it is too late you can not ban guns. You have to use metal detectors etc. because guns are everywhere and no law will change it.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

That is why I send my precious kids to school in Japan, because I know they won't get shot up and slaughtered by a psycho who can get a gun.

We do know this shooter was insane, a sane person would not do that. We know that insane people and children have easy access to guns in the US.

Thank goodness I raised my child in Japan

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The majority of Americans don't own a firearm so the majority are being held to constitutional ransom by a minority. If the constitution can't be changed to ban all weapons then it should be amended banning the deadly assault type weapons.

All supporters and owners of these assault weapons should be hanging their heads in deep shame. Another 17 families destroyed because of someone's constitutional rights to bear weapons. They don't even know now sick that is.

No register of who owns weapons. No training needed before buying a gun. You can't drive a car without passing a driving test. But I can walk into many gun stores in many States and buy as many deadly weapons as I want. I can even just go online and buy them from there without any checks.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Just another day in America very sad but until serious gun reform happens it will not stop.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

I'm watching CNN as I type this and the police are telling the community that it's up to them to call in and report anything unusual to prevent such mass tragedies from happening. Well, what do our representatives on Capitol Hill and Mr. Potato Head have to say about this? Nothing much. They're satisfied with the way things are. This is really screwed up.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@Lizz But what to do is the question

I read this: Police believe the suspect used an AR-15-style … semiautomatic, high capacity rifle, adding he had “countless magazines.”

Why should a civilian (non-police, non-military) need a semi-automatic weapon? My suggestion: Ban them. 

Why does a civilian need magazines holding multiple rounds? Restrict them. 

For civilians, outlaw all automatic weapons. Outlaw bump stocks. Outlaw weapons firing large caliber (e.g. .50 caliber) rounds. 

Make it a crime to upgrade weapons. Increase sentencing for anyone found guilty of committing a crime while carrying a gun.

Those who claim freedom means people have the right to chose what they ‘need’ for themselves, I hope you never have to experience a tragedy like this.

Those who claim actuarial tables show the risks of getting killed by a gun aren’t that great, I hope you never have to experience a tragedy like this.

Those who claim a ‘good teacher’ with a gun could have stopped this - real life is not a John Ford western. What you were able to do at the gun range is NOT the same as a real life incident.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

knowing that he’s a loon is obvious, but what moved him to do such a horrific crime, what was the catalyst that pushed him over the edge. These are questions that must be answered.

What moved him to do it? We've already established he's a looney, he doesn't need a 'reason'.

What pushed him over the edge? There he was thinking his looney thoughts and there, conveniently, was the means to put his sick fantasies to work. Easy.

There, questions answered. The question that must be answered is, What is America going to do about it?

And the answer, sadly, is probably Nothing bar Thoughts and Prayers ™

the bad people who do not follow the law will terrorize them.

Erm, don't look now, but they already are, at an average rate of 12 times a month. And that's only in the schools.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

The solution to America’s mass shooting problem is obvious to everyone and is the giant elephant in the room. The reality is the Constituon that makes it a right to bear arms is so enshrined in the culture and psyche that no matter how prevalent these shootings become there is little hope for major change.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Those who claim actuarial tables show the risks of getting killed by a gun aren’t that great, I hope you never have to experience a tragedy like this.

Yes! and the same people who claim gunshot kill less people than car accidents or disease are also the ones who want to spend billion fighting terrorists when terrorists in America have killed less than the domestic gunshot murders and deaths.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Cleo you miss my point. I am not a gun supporter, I am saying that the reason the Us can not ban guns is because the people who support having guns argue that if they follow the law then only the bad people will be able to carry weapons. Logically that is true. Therefore passing laws is not the solution, it is too late.

If you do not want to play Russian roulette with your children then live in a place like Japan. I have zero worries today that my son will come home from school.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Yes! and the same people who claim gunshot kill less people than car accidents or disease are also the ones who want to spend billion fighting terrorists

Exactly.

when terrorists in America have killed less than the domestic gunshot murders and deaths.

That doesn’t mean they haven’t tried (they did’ or they won’t try (they will) and knowing that the Jihadists are bent on killing us, it is imperative spend that money to fight terrorism.

-18 ( +1 / -19 )

As I said above, non-Americans just say "ban guns" but it is too late.

That's a pretty defeatist attitude...

If you pass laws to ban guns in the US the good people lose their guns and the bad people who do not follow the law will terrorize them.

Good people with guns don't keep bad people in check, good law enforcement officers with guns do.

Criminals will always have guns, but otherwise law-abiding lunatics would have a harder time committing mass murder with a gun ban. They might even be discouraged enough to just move on with life.

A gun ban would result in less guns in circulation, and that makes access harder for criminals, disturbed teens, lunatics, everyone (except law enforcement). It wouldn't happen over night, but you have to start somewhere.

You have to use metal detectors etc.

A gun ban is unrealistic, but metal detectors are a reasonable solution to you? Everywhere? What about parks? Anywhere outdoors would still be unsafe.

because guns are everywhere and no law will change it.

Actually, laws are the only thing that could change it (unless we throw anyone with issues in an asylum as bass4funk suggests). It would take politicians with courage to pass those laws though. If nothing is done, you're right, nothing will change.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Chickens come home to roost. Wait for the hypocrisy to go on the loose.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

You cannot extrapolate from the number of school shootings in the past six weeks, that the school shooting rate is 12x12=144 per year. The correct stats are 290 shootings since 2013 (around 60 per year) with the majority of those incidents involving single fatalities. It’s bad enough without having to sensationalize.

https://everytownresearch.org/school-shootings/

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

bass4funk

That doesn’t mean they haven’t tried (they did’ or they won’t try (they will) and knowing that the Jihadists are bent on killing us, it is imperative spend that money to fight terrorism.

So in this century, since 2000 how many Americans have been killed from acts of terrorism in the country? In the same time frame how many have died from gunshot? How many young American children have been senselessly killed in mass murders?

9 ( +11 / -2 )

MrBum again I am not pro gun. I am saying those are the arguments they use.

And if the law enforcement protects people so well why did kids get shot up? The pro gun people will say if a teacher had a gun it could have been prevented.

Pro gun people think more guns are the answer. To be honest guns are so rampant you can not ban them. They tried that with alcohol remember?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

A minority of Americans continue to hold constitutional ransom over the majority. 25% of the total population own 100% of the weapons while 3% of those own 50% of the total number of weapons, 270-300 million guns.

Do something about that 3% and 50% of the weapons would be removed.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

The pro gun people will say if a teacher had a gun it could have been prevented.

Highly unlikely. More likely, as a previous poster said, there'd be more 'collateral damage'.

To be honest guns are so rampant you can not ban them. 

Unfortunately guns will always be used to kill someone else. I'd never expect all gun deaths to be eliminated. But they can be reduced.

Ban the sales AND possession of automatic and semi-automatic weapons of all kinds. Ban large caliber rifles and handguns. Ban magazines holding a large number of rounds.

As long as it's seen by extremists as an all or nothing proposition, nothing will change.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

If you do not want to play Russian roulette with your children then live in a place like Japan

I do. Never saw the attraction of a place where kids get shot up in school, no one is surprised and the general consensus is that Nothing Can Be Done About It.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

To be honest guns are so rampant you can not ban them. They tried that with alcohol remember?

I do, and they tried it with drugs too. Both times they were successful in confiscating a whole lot of alcohol and drugs. Both times the problem was the ease in which alcohol and drugs can be made, so there was always more supply.

Guns aren't so easy to manufacture. And most of the them are manufactured right in the US, so there's a bit more control over the supply. They just have to stop making so many and sell only to law enforcement. But that would be bad for business, so manufacturers pay politicians to do nothing.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@bas4 knowing that the Jihadists are bent on killing us

As an NRA member, have you lobbied against them for allowing people on terrorist lists to buy guns?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2-000-terror-suspects-bought-guns-legally-report-article-1.2437868

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Sadly, just another day in 'Merika with their gun culture. How many massacres so far this year? How many times have gun nutters said it's not guns? And how many minutes until the next time they repeat the same, tired old mantra that puts this on international news week after week, but barely even front page news in the US. The US will NEVER wake up from this nightmare... not even when it's the kids of politicians or the politicians themselves. Far too late.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Hell, just make it the law that everyone and their mother has to carry.

Let's let 2 and 3 year old kids play with guns too!

Can beat em'...join em'

THAT is how screwed up the "gun" culture is in the US. Everyone wants their "rights"

But no one gives a guano about the thousands upon thousands upon tens of thousands of lives that are shattered.

Fine, let's start with making "gun" free states!, put up fences and walls between states that have, and do not have or allow guns!

I'd move!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

like I said earlier, just happy I raise my kids in Japan.

I agree that in the Us its about which is why it will never change, just like everyday people can not get healthcare. Too much money at stake to change the system

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I do, and they tried it with drugs too. Both times they were successful in confiscating a whole lot of alcohol and drugs.

FYI since that time alcohol and pot have both been legalized

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Less than 10 million Americans own 135-150 million (50%) of the total number of weapons. An average of 15 guns per owner.

There are 500,000 to 700,000 more AR-15-style rifles.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Personally, I like guns.

Do you like the gun used to carry out this filthy act of slaughtering innocents ?

This is something I can’t get my head around. What is to like? This is not the necessary evil argument.

The best explanation I can come up is admiring the brutal simplicity of these devices. I know a little about engineering and I suppose I can see something in this, but there are so many truly incredible feats of engineering and design to admire.

I have more respect for the superb packaging of combini rice balls which keep the seaweed off the rice until you pull the corners. We don’t even need to go into watches, car engines, supersonic flight or suspension bridges.

Maybe I’m just wired differently and don’t see it. Perhaps people just like things designed to drill holes in skin, flesh, muscles and organs and shatter bones.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

17 school shooting in US this year but none at the UN. Why not heighten security at schools? Oh right not worth the money. Why not ban guns? Oh right too much money.

In the US money is all that matters. Spoken from a very patriotic US citizen

4 ( +5 / -1 )

FYI since that time alcohol and pot have both been legalized

Yeah, because you can't stop people from producing it themselves, which was my point. And FYI, alcohol and pot have never been used as tools for mass murder. No society has successfully stopped their people from getting drunk/high, but almost every other well-off nation gets by without guns except the US.

And I take back what I said about gun manufacturers paying politicians to do nothing. They paid them to play up the "God-given" right of every American to own guns, and America listened. Pro-gun politicians do worse than doing nothing, they make things worse.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

MrBum actually your point was that by passing laws they confiscated a lot of alcohol and drugs. But they still ended up legalizing them which is my point, too rampant to ban by making laws

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@dangob In the US money is all that matters. Spoken from a very patriotic US citizen

Can you believe some posters say that Trump's a good president because the stock market went up ($$$), that people shouldn't get fussed about other problems that have come up since he took office?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I don't why the media is calling it Miami suburb? It's 45 miles from the city.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

MrBum actually your point was that by passing laws they confiscated a lot of alcohol and drugs. But they still ended up legalizing them which is my point, too rampant to ban by making laws

Actually my point was despite success in confiscation, prohibition and the drug war were doomed to fail due to lack on control on the supply side. The point was guns are a lot harder to bootleg, grow, or smuggle from other countries, so banning them has a better chance of success.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

So in this century, since 2000 how many Americans have been killed from acts of terrorism in the country?

That’s not the point, don’t conflate the 2nd amendment and terrorism.

A minority of Americans continue to hold constitutional ransom over the majority. 25% of the total population own 100% of the weapons while 3% of those own 50% of the total number of weapons, 270-300 million guns.

https://www.activistpost.com/2016/08/pew-poll-majority-americans-want-protect-second-amendment.html

Ok, now on to reality.

The poll found that 52% of Americans want to want to “protect the right of Americans to own guns,” and 46% want to pass more gun control laws. When the poll was first taken in 2000, 66% of Americans wanted more gun control, and only 29% wanted to protect gun rights.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

1) Politicians, please spare us your lame "this is not the time" comments -- IT IS PAST TIME!!!

2) American people -- regardless of what is in the Constitution, don't you WANT to make a start on getting the guns OUT of your society?? Who cares how long it takes?

3) President of the United States -- are you going to travel to Florida to offer some consolation and comfort to the victims and their family members? What do you mean, "No?"

4) The Congressmen and Senators take BRIBES from the NRA, so they have NO INTENTION of doing ANYTHING about guns. It is up to the American voters to VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE!!

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@fizz I don't why the media is calling it Miami suburb? It's 45 miles from the city.

(from Wikipedia) Parkland is a principal city of the Miami metropolitan area, which was home to an estimated 6,012,331 people in 2015

(from Oxford dictionary) Suburb: an area on the edge of a large town or city where people who work in the town or city often live

6 ( +6 / -0 )

That’s not the point, don’t conflate the 2nd amendment and terrorism.

Don't conflate the number of deaths from road accidents and disease with deaths of little children from mass murder.

The poll found that 52% of Americans want to want to “protect the right of Americans to own guns,” and 46% want to pass more gun control laws. When the poll was first taken in 2000, 66% of Americans wanted more gun control, and only 29% wanted to protect gun rights.

Ban all the assault weapons. Control how many guns can be owned. Limit the number of bullets. There are such that can be done still allowing people to have weapons for sport and hunting.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So our country is just supposed to turn into a slave nation like the EU countries because of some crazy indiduals?

Ohh, so the EU is a slave state and the US isn't, because the EU has stricter gun laws? Lol hilarious.

But yeah, sign me up for that. I'll take stricter gun control in favor of fewer shooting deaths.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

So our country is just supposed to turn into a slave nation like the EU countries because of some crazy indiduals?

Oh, not another one with fantasies of waging a guerilla war against a government with a grotesquely bloated military at its disposal.

It’s cute in a childish way but not really useful here.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

@fizz So our country is just supposed to turn into a slave nation

It's extremist statements like that that continue to stop all discussions. Slave (whatever that means) or free (whatever that means). Only the poles, no middle ground. All or nothing.

I've never advocated for getting rid of all guns mostly because I know that would be impossible. But I do think civilians should not be allowed to possess certain types of weapons. And I do think the state should have the ability to limit their possession and enforce laws.

An example of an extremist position I've read on this forum is that the state should have NO guns, only citizens be permitted to have them.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Extremely sad and extremely upsetting...

Japan with a 130 million population in last 10 years or so had up to 20 persons killed by guns annually, with only 2 in one year. Why? Because there no guns.

To get rid of guns in US it is important to pay the President, Senators, etc., etc. significantly more to stop the corruption and bribery. If the President of the US makes about $400,000 per year, and Senators about half of that it is very easy to bribe them especially by the big business. If the President would gross about 4 billion USD and Senators maybe half of that would be no reason for them to risk and accept bribes. They would be financially independent and they would be able to do the best for the country. They would totally ban all the guns. Lots of chidren, adults, old people would live unharmed...

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

USA should have travel bans imposed on it

5 ( +8 / -3 )

I imagine he was arrested because he had done something illegal.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

My guess is he was schizophrenic.


I heard autistic, but that isn't really the point. This is like the eighth or ninth (??) deadliest mass shooting in modern US history and 3 of them have been within the last five months.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Unfortunately and sadly, in the U.S., gun-rights supporters are too afraid to take that step or leap towards the banning of guns, even if it could mean for safer schools. They are too stubborn and set in their ways to do anything different. As a result, there will continue to be gun massacres and senseless deaths. To the gun nuts, the numbers of dead are just collateral damage to keep their gun addiction alive. It's absolutely sickening.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The AR-15-style rifles is a weapon of war not a weapon for sport or hunting.

These weapons are designed to fire off bullets very, very quickly. Some manufacturers boast that an experienced shooter could fire as many as 45 rounds in one minute. Magazines containing fresh ammunition can be swapped out in a matter of seconds.

In most states, anyone legally allowed to possess a handgun can also purchase an AR-15 or other assault-style rifle, with no further requirements. In Florida, for example, there is no waiting period for would-be buyers of rifles or other long guns.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ar-15-style-weapons_us_5a84cf09e4b0ab6daf45ab2d

America's gun culture in 10 charts

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

6 ( +6 / -0 )

From the Interwebs

""" In 1996, the Republican-majority Congress threatened to strip funding from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention unless it stopped funding research into firearm injuries and deaths. The National Rifle Association accused the CDC of promoting gun controlAs a result, the CDC stopped funding gun-control research — which had a chilling effect far beyond the agency, drying up money for almost all public health studies of the issue nationwide. """

Columbine was in 1999

USA has to stop the NRA, and all their enablers, if they want to ever stop killing their children. No one else in the world was so hardcore, that eventually a limit was reached and they could relent to reason. In the USA, there is literally no limit to the death toll that will sway any change away from the "new normal"

7 ( +7 / -0 )

I love shooting pistols. Nothing wrong with guns.

If this kid did not have a gun, he would have found another way...bombs? Knives, Chlorine and Ammonia mixed together....Ricin....the alternatives for mass killings ar much easier to come about than with guns.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Make the gun USERS pay for their fellow user’s crimes.

Make automobile USERS pay for their fellow users’ crimes (manslaughter while DUI). Same logic or lack thereof.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

If this kid did not have a gun, he would have found another way...bombs? Knives, Chlorine and Ammonia mixed together....Ricin....the alternatives for mass killings ar much easier to come about than with guns.

The gun in question is an assault rifle which needs to be banned and off the streets. Ricin is very difficult to make and then used to kill 20 young kids.Stab to death 20 young kids.

Aways the same-old-same worn out arguments defeating owning weapons which have no real purpose than killing.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Make automobile USERS pay for their fellow users’ crimes (manslaughter while DUI). Same logic or lack thereof.

Automobile users do for the most part pay for their fellow users' crimes. A main way is the requirement for all drivers to be insured. Insurer actuaries factor in the costs they will incur compensating for such cases as manslaughter when DUI and pass those costs on to other drivers, even those who would never dream of drink-driving.

Such a system applied to guns would at least allow more people to see the dollar cost guns cost the economy. Require all gun owners to be insured, and let the market figure it out.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

The police did their job and captured the guy without resorting to adding to the day's fatalities. Well done on them.

Now the right people can find out what drove him, what his motivations to carry out this terrible crime were.

It's the only option available to help prevent future massacres since nothing will be done about the gun problem. So best focus on the individuals who commit such atrocities.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Parkland school is a 27 minute drive from our family condo in Delray Beach.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Turn on the television at any time of day and we can find heroes settling their disputes with guns, knives and bombs!

It is no wonder that a brainwashed society resorts to these weapons when faced with social problems.....

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

 I do think there needs to be other backups and options that can and should equalize the situation or at least give the teachers and faculty members the upper hand so that we have less of these tragedies.

Like maybe bulletproof doors that can be locked down like pilots have?

If this kid did not have a gun, he would have found another way...bombs? Knives, Chlorine and Ammonia mixed together....Ricin....the alternatives for mass killings ar much easier to come about than with guns.

The level of effort is much lower with a gun. The barrier to entry is about $300 or $400, or a willingness to steal from a neighbor, friend, etc.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Ban guns. Unless someone has a compelling need to own and possess a firearm no weapons should be held by the general public.

This won't be the last mass slaughter by gun-toting pychos in American suburbs, and no lessons will be learned. After a few weeks it'll be just another statistic... until the next rampage happens, then it'll be used for comparisons.

Nothing will be done to curb access to deadly weapons. I mean how many of these mass murders have been committed with legally held weapons? The pro-gun lobby always trot out the pathetic line about criminals will still be able to get guns if there are restrictions... this is true, but the shooters always seem to use legally-held guns, so that argument goes out the window.

America probably has more mass murders than most countries outside of the Middle East.

Ban guns.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

AnonymousToday  02:15 pm JST

Make the gun USERS pay for their fellow user’s crimes.

Make automobile USERS pay for their fellow users’ crimes (manslaughter while DUI). Same logic or lack thereof.

You do realize that there are laws requiring automobile USERS to buy insurance to cover at least the material costs of their mistakes, don't you? And that people are not allowed to USE an automobile without state-regulated training and licensing to ensure a minimum standard of safety, don't you? And the state reserves the right to deny any citizen their license to drive if they have been found to USE their cars in an unsafe way, don't you?

That's how absurd US gun laws are, that the vehicles we need for a functioning economy are actually more heavily regulated than firearms intended for mass murder.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

kurisupisu Today  02:58 pm JST

It is no wonder that a brainwashed society resorts to these weapons when faced with social problems.....

Yet literally billions do, without turning to firearms.

And using 'mental health' is a weak sauce argument.

Other countries have mental health issues. The only difference is quite obvious.

I find it amazing to hear today, people quibbling over "how many school shootings" there have been in the US this year - "It's not many..."

  1. Eight school shootings.  Thirty in the country as a whole, and 346 last year.

Yet - hey! - it's a "mental health issue"... and "IT'S ONLY EIGHT/THIRTY/THREE-HUNDRED-AND-FORTY-SIX SHOOTINGS".

Eight shootings in a *** school, man. Eight times where kids have been shot because some idiot has ready access to a firearm.

But no worries! Prayers/good thoughts, amirite?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

America is the No1 gun owning country with 101 guns for every 100 residents.

Japan is in position 162 with 0.6 guns for every 100 residents.

In America every type of gun is available including the deadly assault rifles. In Japan, the guns are almost limited to shotguns. The amount of munitions in America are unlimited while in Japan, its limited.

Driving a car requires a certain level of intelligence and a driving test but any idiot can go and a gun.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I can’t believe so many people think the answer is more guns. There has not been a mass-shooting in Australia since the gun buy-back nearly 30 years ago. I think that’s proof enough that, less guns means less killings.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

bass4funk

Florida is a death penalty state, so let the justice system take its course, this individual will stand trial and pay for his horrific crimes.

Previously on numerous occasions you stated your opposition to the death penalty. Have you changed?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

When guns are easy to obtain, then almost anybody can use them, including those who could later use them for nefarious purposes (ya can't predict even what "good" people will do later in life, after they are already in legal possession of guns)

With all else being equivalent between attackers and defenders, the attackers will always have the advantage of surprise and planning - the defenders stand to lose the initial skirmish, so it's almost impossible to avoid some sort of casualties

As in the movie WarGames, really the only winning move is to not play the arms race to start with

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Worth repeating:

Eight shootings in a *** school, man. Eight times where kids have been shot because some idiot has ready access to a firearm

5 ( +5 / -0 )

NRA rules.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Prayers for victims of natural disasters such as earthquakes and tsunami are understandable as they are what is known as "acts of God." That an 18-year old with a well-documented history of mental illness somehow managed to access this weapon was no "act of God" - it was a logical result of administrative negligence.

The insurance argument above was interesting, as well is tort reform allowing owners of negligently kept firearms to lose all they have and go to jail. Of course the NRA is against this, but then, they hate the Second Amendment: What part of "well-regulated" is unclear?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

GoodlucktoyouToday  06:08 pm JST

NRA rules.

If by "rules" you mean "launders Putin money for Trump and has the blood of innocent children on its hands," then yes, I agree.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

First of all, my thoughts are with the victims families. Horrific doesn't even begin to describe what they must be feeling.

The mass murderer Cruz was expelled for making death threats.

The school sent an email telling all staff NOT to let him on campus if he were wearing a backpack. Why? Because he TOLD the school he would do just that. Come back with weapons in a backpack.

He used a rifle. He was in the building. How?? The school expelled Cruz for making death threats, took NO PRECAUTIONS, then immediately blamed the government and the country for the horror. Police were not called and security personnel not used at the school like they are in so many other schools despite the known danger and threats.

The school is to blame.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Well it’s a good thing Trump is building a wall. That should stop these school shootings.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

I can’t believe so many people think the answer is more guns.


Why ? Israel has more restrictive gun laws than the US but every school still has private guards and a minority of teachers are armed.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

The school sent an email telling all staff NOT to let him on campus if he were wearing a backpack. Why? Because he TOLD the school he would do just that. Come back with weapons in a backpack.

He used a rifle. He was in the building. How?? The school expelled Cruz for making death threats, took NO PRECAUTIONS, then immediately blamed the government and the country for the horror. Police were not called and security personnel not used at the school like they are in so many other schools despite the known danger and threats.

The school is to blame.

Some points worth considering there.

What do you think of the fact that a person like this was able to get his hands on an extremely powerful firearm capable of discharging a shower of bullets?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

He used a rifle. 

He was armed with an AR-15-style rifle and had multiple magazines of ammunition.

He was in the building. How??

Yes and immediately set off smoke grenades and sounded the fire alarm to get the maximum numbers of teachers and children out of the classrooms and into the main corridor.

The school expelled Cruz for making death threats, 

 expelled for unspecified disciplinary reasons.

"Broward County Public Schools superintendent Robert Runcie told reporters there were no red flags giving authorities a reason to be on guard."

“We didn’t have any warnings,“ Mr Runcie said. ”There weren’t any phone calls or threats that were made“.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Why ? Israel has more restrictive gun laws than the US but every school still has private guards and a minority of teachers are armed.

Errr,,I think Israel has a bigger terrorist problem than the US. Car bombings, suicide bombings, shootings, knifings. Kinda incomparable. Comparing armed guards with arming civilians is also ridiculous.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Horrific doesn't even begin to describe what they must be feeling.

"Horrific doesn't even begin to describe....but, I'm in no way interested dealing with the problem." Got it.

The school is to blame.

All of that may be true, but he could have used a gun anywhere. What would the excuse have been there? How about at the church in Texas? Was that their fault for not packing more heat? Good grief.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Errr,,I think Israel has a bigger terrorist problem than the US.


They have guards everywhere to fight terrorism but there are not going to be 'more guns' in either country. Just more in the right place at (hopefully) the right time.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

zichi -

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200126034.html

They knew about him. There were red flags everywhere.

They ignored them.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

They have guards everywhere to fight terrorism but there are not going to be 'more guns' in either country.

There aren't going to be more guns? Every time a shooting happens, people go out and buy more guns.

Just more in the right place at (hopefully) the right time.

Well, we've got a great track record on "hope" now haven't we? We "hoped" things would change after the Vegas shooting. Then we "hoped" they would after the Texas church shooting. And we should just keep "hoping?" Brilliant, foolproof plan. Hey, let's keep hoping y'all, yeehaw!

8 ( +8 / -0 )

They knew about him. There were red flags everywhere.

Nothing in the Miami Herald post about death threats as you stated? Certainly in light of all the numerous school mass murders that a government review should happen which should include schools in lockdown during hours and armed guards stationed at schools.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Comparing armed guards with arming civilians is also ridiculous.


I'm saying that Israel has a multi layered policy with only two points at schools being: law enforcement stationed at entrances (which this school in Florida was also supposed to have) and a large number of armed, well trained teachers.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

another shocking fact, around 1.5 million people have died by gun violence in the US since independence , this is more than all Americans killed in all the wars during the same period.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@wtfjapan: Actually that 1.5 million people killed by guns in the US is only since 1968.

One of the first things that came to mind as I listened to the nonstop news about this, is that over 100 civilians are killed every month, month after month by US military strikes in just Syria and Iraq. Imagine how people have to go through this type of thing every day?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

another shocking fact, around 1.5 million people have died by gun violence in the US since independence 

Shocking!! Since 1776?? You've got to be kidding me!!

Thats it! wtfjapan has shown me the light. Gun control (even though studies show gun-controlled cities are more dangerous) is the answer!

1776!

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

Gun control (even though studies show gun-controlled cities are more dangerous) is the answer!

so the whole of Japan is under strict gun control and certainly more safe than America. Less than 5 gunshot deaths every year.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

I know ALL about you, TE.

TE?

Give up the booze, man.

I know exactly who you are

Sure you do. You're a very honest person, not given at all to hyperbole, bs and threats.

and the horrific things you have said on this very website literally wishing for assassinations and bloodshed in the United States.

So you keep saying but you've never, ever offered up any proof of that. Whereas I have screenshots of your threats, innuendos, violent scenarios and other weird late night creepy stuff directed towards me and other posters. Mods may have deleted it all, but I haven't.

I would suggest relevant authorities have also noticed the red flags.

Excellent. This is about the umpteenth time you've warned me about impending knocks on the door.

So. I'll say it once more. Bring it on. I'm more than happy to hand over my pc and various devices.

Please. Ring them now. Do it. JT can have exclusive rights to the popcorn fest.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

My opinion won't be popular but people who still think that banning guns will magically solve this issue still don't see the problem here. It's not the guns that are the problem, it's the culture surrounding the guns. The glorification of guns and violence is what's the issue. Guns and rifles are merely a tool to protect oneself and one's property. Want to know who to blame? Blame the media who glorifies this kind of violence. Blame the gun nut culture who deifies it. Guns themselves are merely the tool, it's the wielder and the culture they live in that causes the shooting spree to happen on innocents. Yeah, yeah, just because you don't like my opinion doesn't mean you have to get butthurt...but go ahead and downvote me. I don't care. You know I'm right.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Penske, the gun culture is at fault in America, but that culture is only perpetuated by the easy access to weapons of this nature. Take away access to those weapons and stop glorifying them and maybe things can start to change.

Trouble is that as long as the US has this posturing, macho culture ("gotta go into them thar woods n hunt me a deer to show Ah'm a real man") and adoration of nutters with stashes of weapons on racks in their 'man caves' things will never change.

All it takes is some disgruntled snot-faced yobbo to grab his dad's gun and trot off to school and you have another mass slaughter of children and young people on your hands.

Remove the guns and you remove the means to murder kids in schools. As I said above, most of these killings are carried out by using legally held weapons, not gangs of roving thugs with stolen guns or guns bought on the black market - they tend to exterminate each other.

How dense are American lawmakers that they can't get their heads around the fact that it's access to guns that perpetuates the issue. Just ban the bloody things.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Why ? Israel has more restrictive gun laws than the US but every school still has private guards and a minority of teachers are armed.

Israel also has compulsory military service in which those teachers are trained to handle firearms and get to practice on Palestinians. See any difference to the situation in the US?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Thats it! wtfjapan has shown me the light. Gun control (even though studies show gun-controlled cities are more dangerous) is the answer! more BS fake facts , America has 3~5 times higher homicide rate of any 1st world country, it is even higher than many 2nd & 3rd world African/Asian countries. Australia banned semi & fully auto guns in 1996, 18yrs prior to this there were 13 gun massacres resulting in over 100 deaths, 20yrs+ after this ban there have been zero massacres. Australia's homicide rate is about 1/5 of that of the US. Facts that are backed by statistics not BS propaganda.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Amerika will NEVER solve this problem because the solutions would violate SOMEONE'S civil or constitutional right. Just live with it.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Trump live from the WH on the Florida mass shootings and murders. LT1530

My Fellow Americans..

Lot of sympathy for the victims, families, school teachers and local community but not a single word about gun control or banning the deadly assault weapons used in this tragic event.

I guess his speech will become available on the WH site.

Emotional speech without content. No bite about securing the schools just some loaded words about mental health.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The US 2nd amendment is the real issue.... and within the Swamp, you have the monster Gun Lobby... so little of effect will ever get done, without addressing the constitution.... and that ain't gonna happen any time soon.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Also, lets assume that they do make following up on public concerns over an individual's stability to bear arms... what will happen... someone will call in Donald Trump's sanity and as a result the Police will be forced to take away his pop guns ? That will be unworkable.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Someone will undoubtedly spin this event saying, well if you let all the Kids in School have Guns, then the death rate would have been a lot lower.... I really wouldn't be surprised to see that one being mentioned.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Perhaps a conceivable solution would be to adjust interpretation of the 2nd amendment, allowing the right to bear arms that were only available at the time of the 2nd amendment's creation.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I watched, listened and even I tried to not give it my opinion about this massacre, but it pricked at me like a thorny bush. It made me think too much I fear. Please forgive my long post of thoughts.

17 people died again at the hands of a lone shooter yesterday. Once more in a location filled with defenseless children and adults. Our insistence that schoosl remain without the safety factors that we have had in place since the the early 1990s: in our hospitals ER’s, ICU, nursery wards. Even our police stations were locked to keep the public from coming further than the front desk.

Our city halls, our government offices and most all buildings in New York post 9-11 are show ID or your business reasons or you don’t get access. Our banks, airports etc all have limited general access unless you are a customer. With proof of ID. There are armed guards at almost all these locations.

We all know this and we call it the new normal. But we send our future -- our children -- to the most vulnerable place to spend most of their time from K-grade 12. We still seem to think they are safe in a gun free zone we call school.

Then, we collectively gnash our teeth and say, “Why? Why?"

There is a saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expect different results. So who are the crazy ones, us or the peoplewho take advantage of our lackadaisical attitude?

Then we blame the tool that was used in the crime. If only we ban the tool, people say. Then we want to know why the person who did this horror, did it. He had easy access to the tool we say. The evil gun.

But really was it the gun or is it our perverse society to blame? As a nation, we need to stop condoning violence as an acceptable means to an end. Has anyone here heard of Antifa? Or, how about Hollywood celebrities threatening violence and assassination of political figures?

Anyone, anyone?

Yes, lots of unanswered questions that we ask ourselves every time a terrible tragedy like this occurs. 

We tell the government, you take care of it. In reality, we are the government.

If you think I am anti-gun, I’m not. I am a lifetime member of the NRA. I own several long and short barrel firearms and have been certified to use each of them (fellow NRA members here know what I am referring to), possess an OWP -- which is legal here -- and am always armed everytime I go out in public. If confronted, I am trained to protect myself. In my view, I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Though no longer a parent (my lone child was killed by a Honduran illegal alien in 2007), I have nieces and nephews who work in places that are soft targets gun free zones. I hate that.

Until we recalibrate our national mindset I view today's America's declining society as being the weapon, we as passive supporters of hate-filled rhetoric the gun and, like it or not, we very well may have collectively helped pull the trigger in Florida on Valentine's Day. . . .

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Exactly. The right to bear arms is a fundamental right, like freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean it cannot be regulated. It means the government must have a compelling reason to regulate it (protecting students) and must use the least restrictive means to regulate it.

Is it really a fundamental right? I mean, it comes from an amendment in the first place. But I agree with you on regulations:

*A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed*

There is the 2nd amendment in all its bloody glory. The very first phrase talks about regulation before we get onto the right to bear arms. A well-regulated militia implies a state-sponsored organisation designed to defend or keep the peace, and its members require arms. Nothing about owning military-grade weaponry because you fancy it.

I presume that this murdering youth was a member of some well-regulated militia, and not some psycho kid who just felt like buying a gun that could spray lead.

>

7 ( +7 / -0 )

According to a Yahoo news article, the white supremacist group, The Republic of Florida, confirmed that the man charged in this murder, Nikolas Cruz, participated in some of their paramilitary drills. This adds to the known fact that murders by white supremacists have more than doubled in the past year. This should be constituted as an act of domestic terrorism. If Trump is so willing to go forth with a Muslim ban, why not a ban on white supremacist groups? To me, they pose a much greater threat to American society.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

People are still talking about this? It’s so yesterday. Just another school shooting. Nothing special (ion America).

3 ( +5 / -2 )

For non-Americans it might be hard to understand but the problem is actually simple. Guns have been legal in the US since the Boston Tea Party days because people needed to defend their homes from the British red coats.

@ Dango Bongo - that is simply an historical inaccuracy. For a start the right to bear arms came well after the war of independence came to an end. A second inaccuracy was not recognising that the war of independence was actually a civil war, although those looking for independence outnumbered loyalists by about 2:1. Patriotic memory has since repainted it as an uprising of the whole population against red-suited tyrants, but at the time it was far from it - families and communities were deeply divided. Perhaps as they still are on the matter of gun control.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

It's very simple for Non-Americans to understand... the US Democratic system is totally FUBAR'd.

Plain and simple. It does not adapt, can not adapt, will not adapt, does not want to adapt.

One wonders whether it is Democratic anymore ? (I mean Republican...) or whatever you wish to call it... other than ... broken.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Our city halls, our government offices and most all buildings in New York post 9-11 are show ID or your business reasons or you don’t get access. Our banks, airports etc all have limited general access unless you are a customer. With proof of ID. There are armed guards at almost all these locations.

OMG, that sounds like an absolutely awful place to live. And you want more of the same??

If you think I am anti-gun

I don't think anyone fell into that trap.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

"It was the 18th shooting in a U.S. school.."

WHAAAAAAAT! and Its only FEB

3 ( +3 / -0 )

As I said above, non-Americans just say "ban guns" but it is too late. If you pass laws to ban guns in the US the good people lose their guns and the bad people who do not follow the law will terrorize them.

Dango Bong

I am SORRY but that line of thinking is simply WRONG!!

Surely the correct answer is to re-write laws, beef up enforcement, heavily restrict & even BAN certain ammunition & gun accessories.

Things wont change overnite but its known as a START! Over time it will get better. Another thing have law enforcement have LOTS of gun amnesty days where weapons/ammo etc can be dropped off for destruction, no questions asked. THIS has been done in many places, I know it has been done in my home country Canada at times & I believe I read about a very successful turn around in the number of guns in Australia I think it was.

Yanks, you just need to balls to START this & other ideas & it WILL get better, to do nothing means it will more likely get WORSE, or best stay the sad same! Its a no brainer, now come on put on your damned NIKES & just DO IT ALREADY!!!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Last September, FBI was sent a screenshot of a comment by nikolas cruz:

"I’m going to be a professional school shooter.”

Unfortunately, the FBI was busy running down Clinton campaign leads about a nonexistent Russian conspiracy with Trump.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Trump will have a hard time making America GREAT again. His speech to the children felt useless.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I have nieces and nephews who work in places that are soft targets gun free zones. I hate that.

Too bad. Japan is one big gun free zone. It is one big soft target as civilians cannot own guns.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

nishikatToday  09:36 pm JST

Too bad. Japan is one big gun free zone. It is one big soft target as civilians cannot own guns.

Madame President,

This article is about what is going on here in the U.S., not Japan. Please try and keep up. . . .

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

If confronted, I am trained to protect myself. In my view, I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Then how do you do this in Japan with no guns? Japan is a safe country, but there are stories of violent attacks from time to time. You cannot have a gun in Japan. What will you do if you are walking on the street in Japan and someone attacks you with a sword. Or if more than one person attacks you?

my lone child was killed by a Honduran illegal alien in 2007

Yes, and an American just killed 17 children at a high school.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Almost, if not all, all of the shooters were on anti-depressant medications. Mayo clinic research indicates "In some children, antidepressants may also trigger anxiety, agitation, hostility, restlessness or impulsive behavior. " It also appears that there were warning signs (ignored) that the shooters were reaching a point to cause harm to themselves and others. Although the shooter was identified as a problem and fellow students said they were not surprised at what he did, there was no action taken by anyone to do anything that may have averted this massacre. The best the school system did was to expel him ! Was there no follow up?

Schools here are usually locked down with entrance by anyone closely watched. How did he enter the school? he was a known issue as well.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Madame President,

my lone child was killed by a Honduran illegal alien in 2007

Obama was not the present at that time. Neither was Hillary.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@ Nauhoff

The same as Japanese matri-patri-infanticide, really

Distracting the attention of your national hobby?

Weak arguments by weak creatures :)

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Let the Americans have their most favourite hobby and as continental Europeans we should be eager to send them the latest innovations of the EU weapon industry.

Not only does Europe produce better cars but also better fire arms. Check out the latest Glock 43 :

' The Glock 43 is the answer to your everyday concealed carry needs. It's ultra-concealable, accurate and fantastic for all shooters regardless of hand size.'

Isn't that great? 'Regardless of hand size' means that your kid can use it at school to defend him/herself ! :)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Tex: My condolences for your loss.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

1 ( +1 / -0 )

OMG, that sounds like an absolutely awful place to live. And you want more of the same??

Not shootings, but I do love my country and if other people don’t or are shocked, oh, well.

Too bad. Japan is one big gun free zone. It is one big soft target as civilians cannot own guns.

In Japan, the Japanese can make the laws as they see fit, but when I’m in the States, it’s hunting all the way.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

but when I’m in the States

But when you are in Japan what do you do if someone is attacking you with a sword, charging at you with a car, or a group of people attack you. Japan is a very dangerous country for 2A people.

it’s hunting all the way.

You can hunt in Japan.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

In Japan, the Japanese can make the laws as they see fit, but when I’m in the States, it’s hunting all the way.

Unfortunately, there are some people who aren't hunting animals, but children. Sure glad my country and Japan has zero tolerance with guns. Australia got it right too a few years back.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

There is a clue in the title, " Amendment" not god given right, so the amendment can be amended to suit the constitution,

3 ( +3 / -0 )

If you care about getting to the bottom of this problem, please take the time to watch this.

https://www.facebook.com/jayla.holmes.14/videos/540387656330083/

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

USA is not a democracy. Rich people and organisations support politician election. This is officially called lobbying. I call it corruption.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The only way to prevent such shooting incident in the States is to abolish all gun laws and make National Rifle Association a US government institution. If everyone carries a gun, this type of incident would never take place. Liberal media in the US has grossly exaggerated the scale of shootings. Their purpose is trying to take the guns away from American people by promoting yet more gun control laws. In fact, more people in the US have died from opioid addiction than shooting-related deaths, yet no one has talked about it.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Thomas ryu, you must be a ted nugget fan or you must have been brain washed by his doctrine, its total rubbish the theory of more guns more protection, its total rubbish, I don't think that most people want to abolish ALL GUNS, just tighten up on your very lax laws, and make it the same policy throughout the USA, rather than having fragmented laws in different states, the first thing the government needs to do is to buy back or remove the sale of assault rifles. there is a clue in the name of this type of gun "ASSULT RIFLE" not general protection rifle, these are for front line troupes not the general public, then the government needs to look at screening ALL gun owner through doctors and medical record, and try to spot and weed out potential problems.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

whose gonna read down this far... fire alarms should be silent (hold your horses) at schools. if you shoot fire people come look and check. So, the alarm is pulled and the school office is alerted and checks cameras around the activated alarm. Then send out the armed guard/office staff/ administrator. the difference is between smoke in the hall and a heat triggered ceiling alarm

0 ( +0 / -0 )

shout "fire"not shoot. sorry

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If everyone carries a gun, this type of incident would never take place. 

And according to the NRA teens should carry just like adults. And according to We The People if anyone does't believe this it makes them a Liberal. How else can teens protect themselves?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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