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30 hostages reported killed after siege ends in Algeria

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Now Japan will notice what is going on in Mali. A shame it takes this sad loss to make this country aware of what is happening around the world. They should have employed a private security company to advise them. Ex SAS guys.

-8 ( +9 / -17 )

Sherman its just the same in UK. When was Algeria previously in the mainstream news?

12 ( +14 / -2 )

ShermanJan. 18, 2013 - 07:43AM JST Now Japan will notice what is going on in Mali

Well if the U.S., UK, France, Germany, Norway, and others all noticed what was going on in Mali it sure didn't help them any now did it?

5 ( +12 / -7 )

@OssanAmerica

I think you are missing the point. Last night, a bunch of coworkers sat down for a late night snack. Of course Japan was the topic on the table. Quite a few of the group feel that Japanese think they are all alone on this planet. Outside Japan's borders is of no concern to Japanese so long as there is a steady flow of income from exports.

I think what Sherman is expressing in his comment is along those same lines. Sounds more like "wake up" Japan. Your politicians can't mouth off at other countries and then expect Japanese people to travel and do business abroad without fear of retribution.

I feel the same way. Apathy simply doesn't work. Algeria is no vacation spot. Those Japanese were over there on business, cashing in. People in government and the gas business put those people in harm's way. You can't have it both ways. You can't rattle the cages and then send your people inside the den to do business.

Also Abe and Japan's government have no right to dictate to Algeria's government how to handle this situation. It's not your jurisdiction. If Algeria wants your help, we'll call. Japan has no special forces and no one qualified to handle counter-terrorism. Nothing. Japan's presence in this matter will only exacerbate the situation and interrupt the flow of communication.

Just hope and pray no one else dies.

-5 ( +13 / -17 )

It is so terrible that innocent people have to suffer like this. I feel for the families of the victims. This type of horrible thing could happen to any one of us, we just have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. RIP to those souls.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

ShermanJAN. 18, 2013 - 07:43AM JST Now Japan will notice what is going on in Mali. A shame it takes this sad loss to make this country aware of what is happening around the world. They should have employed a private security company to advise them. Ex SAS guys.

Yes Sherman i agree with you, in those types of hostile locations, well armed and trained security should be an absolute must.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Well put FPSRussia. Thank you.

-4 ( +5 / -10 )

@Sherman

OMG, Japanese people tend to care more about news related to them ?

I'm sure every non-Japanese person in the world are familiar with all the incidents that are happening all corners of the world, especially Americans.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

@ FPSRussia: Good points. Also, this should be a wake-up call for Japan in regards to Islamic terrorists. Japan has two Somali pirates on trial in Japan. These terrorist types like to strike out against those who they think are doing them wrong. Look at the threats that they have made against France for the raids in Mali. Abe and the rest of Japan had better prepare and I hope it doesn't happen when more Japanese tourist or heaven forbid an act of terror happens in Japan in response to the trial of the Somali pirates.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Algeria is in a tough situation, right next door to Spain, France, nice, but next to it is Mali, etc..and the guns from Libya along with ex jihadi fighters are coming into Algeria, Mali so my guess this kind of violence will only get worse before it gets better, and one of my best friends from Mexico has been working with Japanese and Algerians for the last few years, so I hope the terrorists do not attack anymore foreigners!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I remember when I was living in Provence back in 1996 and practically every week there was a story in the newspaper about atrocities in Algeria. The Islamist rebels were like guerrillas in the mountains and committed some horrible atrocities on Algerian citizens. So, even though I have to condemn this sloppy operation in which many hostages were killed, I do agree with the Algerian gubb'ment's stance on NO NEGOTIATION. You cannot negotiate with Islamic psychos like these guys. You gotta take them out, but not guns blazing like this. Why didn't they use some special forces snipers or something?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Those Stupid Idiots! They should've waited coordinated with The U.S. Special Forces and probably nobody would've been killed except the Scum Bag Terrorist... My Thoughts Prayers to the Victims and their Families.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@FPSRussia

Your politicians can't mouth off at other countries and then expect Japanese people to travel and do business abroad without fear of retribution.

This would be a good point if you could provide examples of Japan "mouthing off at other countries" - specifically in this case Algeria. I suspect Japan has done nothing but cooperate with the Algerians to assist them in developing their dirt poor assbackwards country.

It also kind of sounds like you think its OK for criminal terrorist gangs to act as the tool of "retribution" for governments/countries that feel ignored by the first world.

12 ( +15 / -2 )

Thirty hostages and at least 11 Islamist militants were killed on Thursday when Algerian forces stormed a desert gas plant in a bid to free many dozens of Western and local captives, an Algerian security source said.

What do you expect when you get third world military to do something like this?

Algeria is hardly well known for having special forces able to do hostage rescues. They should have let the US, UK, or even the French special forces deal with it.

I know it's their country, but common sense should dictate in these situations.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Now Japan will notice what is going on in Mali. A shame it takes this sad loss to make this country aware of what is happening around the world. They should have employed a private security company to advise them. Ex SAS guys.

You know, I have learned more about World problems and news since I moved to Japan from the U.S.

Also I am very sure that Japanese and many people around the World know about the Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda-linked terrorists and that the Middle East and North Africa is a hot bed for them. Also I am more than certain companies know the risks of opening companies or working in those regions.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Posts knocking Japan's lack of awareness of foreign matters, and no outrage at all at this completely botched 'rescue'?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

FPSRussia: While it's a 'good' (I use the term loosely) opportunity for Japan to wake up and realize it's part of the world outside of economic trade, the Japanese themselves were not targeted here -- they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that's it.

The Algerian government did the righ thing by not capitulating -- the Islamists probably would have killed the hostages anyway after getting what they wanted (especially if you take into account the eye-witness' report), but it sounds like they botched the rescue attempt pretty bad. I mean, just spraying a bunch of bullets at a truck that contained militants doesn't sound like a very coordinated attack plan. Perhaps letting other nations in on the plan might have led to smoother execution, but then again it was incredibly time-sensitive. The Japanese government can express frustration over the loss of the two nationals, but they can't blame the Algerian government without realizing the deaths were a strong possibility. Britian's leader seemed to say it best by saying we have to expect a bad outcome (but hope for the best).

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Algeria takes the public flak for not succeeding, but also the credit for not being soft on terrorism. World industrial powers get to wring their hands and say it's not our fault. They all save themselves time and a bundle of money. Nice outcome.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Probie:

I wouldn't call a country that has a better debt ratio USA and a better access to education than China and Brazil, third world, developing country rings better ;) . I would recommend you to check OECD data before saying innacurate things like this.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Sadly, I predicted this. The jihadis do not care about life (that of the hostages or their own), and the Algerian government deals with them as it has (and had to) through the decades of bloody Algerian islamist war... guns blazing.

It was easy to predict that this would end in a Beslan-like bloodbath. And with the world-wide rise of islamism, we will see plenty more of this.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

hidingout:

" This would be a good point if you could provide examples of Japan "mouthing off at other countries" - specifically in this case Algeria. I suspect Japan has done nothing but cooperate with the Algerians to assist them in developing their dirt poor assbackwards country. "

Algeria is not a "dirt poor assbackwards country". They have one of the stronger economies in the region, and would have a much better one if they were not forced to use a large part of their ressources to fight the jihadis who want to drag Algeria back to the 7th century. If the Jihadis ever take over, then yes, they will establish a "dirt poor assbackwards country" of the type they have in Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Northern Nigeria, or Northern Mali.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Probie

What do you expect when you get third world military to do something like this? Algeria is hardly well known for having special forces able to do hostage rescues. They should have let the US, UK, or even the French special forces deal with it.

On of course the Algerians are useless compared to use first world countries. How on ear ca we expect them to achieve a good outcome.... Sarcasm intended there.

Funny you name France as one country that would do a better job than them.... Didnt the French have a bad rescue operation in the past week? The hostage was killed as was 2 of their soldiers ( one was left behind and died). Ohara the US didnt they actually kill a hostage in one raid a couple of years back in Iraq? But but they are first world militaries you say!!

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Damn spell check..... Should have read

What do you expect when you get third world military to do something like this? Algeria is hardly well known for having special forces able to do hostage rescues. They should have let the US, UK, or even the French special forces deal with it.

On of course the Algerians are useless compared to use first world countries. How on earth can we expect them to achieve a good outcome.... Sarcasm intended there.

Funny you name France as one country that would do a better job than them.... Didnt the French have a bad rescue operation in the past week? The hostage was killed as was 2 of their soldiers ( one was left behind and died). Oh and the US didnt they actually kill a hostage in one raid a couple of years back in Iraq? But but they are first world militaries you say!!

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

From the Algerian point of view 600 of their people survived but some foreigners got killed. So for them this is a successful operation.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

On of course the Algerians are useless compared to use first world countries. How on ear ca we expect them to achieve a good outcome.... Sarcasm intended there. Funny you name France as one country that would do a better job than them.... Didnt the French have a bad rescue operation in the past week? The hostage was killed as was 2 of their soldiers ( one was left behind and died). Ohara the US didnt they actually kill a hostage in one raid a couple of years back in Iraq? But but they are first world militaries you say!!

Are you trying to say that the Algerians did a better job than the S.A.S., or SEAL Team 6, or the French special forces could have?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

FPSRussiaJan. 18, 2013 - 08:42AM JST @OssanAmerica I think you are missing the point. Last night, a bunch of coworkers sat down for a late night snack. Of course Japan >was the topic on the table. Quite a few of the group feel that Japanese think they are all alone on this planet. Outside >Japan's borders is of no concern to Japanese so long as there is a steady flow of income from exports.

What co-workers are you referring to? Yours? Yes lets categorize all Japanese as one. I have worked with a number of Japanese trading house people who had lived in several countries and were extremely versed in matters outside of Japan. A country that relies on exports by definition cannot "think they are alone" on this planet.

I think what Sherman is expressing in his comment is along those same lines. Sounds more like "wake up" Japan. >Your politicians can't mouth off at other countries and then expect Japanese people to travel and do business abroad >without fear of retribution.

I had hoped Sherman could speak for himself. And has Japan been "mouthing off" in terms of Mali? I must have missed that.

I feel the same way. Apathy simply doesn't work. Algeria is no vacation spot. Those Japanese were over there on >business, cashing in. People in government and the gas business put those people in harm's way. You can't have it >both ways. You can't rattle the cages and then send your people inside the den to do business.

You seem to fail to appreciate that these workers, Japanese as well as others , have nothing to do with government policies. They are innocent civilians who have been taken for political reasons. The rest of the world calls this Terrorism. And I have no idea what "cage" has been rattled by these people, or even by the Japanese government.

Also Abe and Japan's government have no right to dictate to Algeria's government how to handle this situation. It's not >your jurisdiction. If Algeria wants your help, we'll call. Japan has no special forces and no one qualified to handle >counter-terrorism. Nothing. Japan's presence in this matter will only exacerbate the situation and interrupt the flow of >communication.

Actually every country who has a national involved in this situation has a right to say whatever they want. But he west has a relationship with Algeria that must be maintained. Hence you haven't seen Seals or SAS go flying in. By the way, Japan certainly does have anti-terrorism commando units, but they are trained mostly for urban combat and their constitution does not allow them to be sent overseas. Japan can not "interrupt the flow of communication because it is receving it from the U.S. and UK, so that comment makes no sense at all.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

He appears not to have been present and has now risen in stature among a host of Saharan Islamists, flush with arms and fighters from chaotic Libya,

What's going on here?

Two years ago the French were supporting and arming these same Libyan Arab Springers in the name of Democracy and now they all turn out to be radical Islamists.

I bet if they manage to trace the weapons used by the terrorists they'll find that they were the same ones supplied to the "Friends of Libya" group.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Probie

Are you trying to say that the Algerians did a better job than the S.A.S., or SEAL Team 6, or the French special forces could have?

Lol love the response... You realise there is more than one seal team ( 14 of them to be exact) and non are numbered 6. Been watching to many movies there....

But my point here was you called the Algerians third world and that these first world forces could do better.... Yeah maybe they could, maybe they wouldn't too. I.e French raid on Somalia last week, the black hawk down fiasco, Iran hostage fiasco. Etc, etc, etc.

See even the supposed first world militaries can get it wrong..... So my point your comments are a bit unfair and off target.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

“The terrorists told us at the very start that they would not hurt Muslims but were only interested in the Christians and infidels,” Abdelkader, 53, said by telephone from his home in the nearby town of In Amenas. “‘We will kill them,’ they said.”

So, the hostages were going to die anyway. Good on them for going in an attacking. These cowardly terrorists seek to kill non-muslims. So, don't negotiate. Just go in & kill them all! That will make those cowards think twice about taking hostages. Once they realize that taking innocent people & using them as bartering chips will get them nothing but death, maybe they will stop.

These punks cannot fight the French military. That's why they have gone into hiding, blended in with innocent people & fled across the boarder to attack inoccent people.

Terrorists talk tough, but they are really just a bunch of cowards.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Lol love the response... You realise there is more than one seal team ( 14 of them to be exact) and non are numbered 6. Been watching to many movies there....

Yes, I know. Sorry I'm not a military geek enough to say how many there are. And everybody refers to them as SEAL team 6.

But my point here was you called the Algerians third world and that these first world forces could do better....

No. They CERTAINLY could.

Yeah maybe they could,

Yes, they could, well done.

maybe they wouldn't too.

No, wrong.

I.e French raid on Somalia last week, the black hawk down fiasco, Iran hostage fiasco. Etc, etc, etc.

Tell me the glorious history of the Algerian special forces, and their impeccable record of hostage rescue then.

You fail to mention any of the sucessful operations. Well done. Can you make me a nice pie when you're done with that cherry-picking?

See even the supposed first world militaries can get it wrong..... So my point your comments are a bit unfair and off target.

Yeah, you're right. I was stupid to think that elite counter terrorist units, with decades of experience and training would have done better than the amazingly awesome Algerian military. I'm going to become an Algerian citizen, so if I am ever kidnapped, I can feel safe that none of those amateur S.A.S. guys will get anywhere near me, because I know, that the Algerian special forces have my back...

I mean, look at how it raid was planned in such a surgical manner!

“The army bombed four out of five of the trucks and four of them were destroyed ... He presumed everyone else in the other trucks was killed ... The truck my brother was in crashed and at that stage Stephen was able to make a break for his freedom.”

Nothing says "elite hostage rescue" better than bombing the convoy with the hostages in.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Once they realize that taking innocent people & using them as bartering chips will get them nothing but death, maybe they will stop.

I wish you were right Mark but I believe that their belief in what they are doing is beyond what we as westerners may see as rational. Ever heard of a British or irish suicide bomber? Or French, German, italian?

It reminds me somewhat of the mentality of British and German troops in the first world war who would go over the top of the trenches and march towards the other line while all the while being cut down by relentless gunfire.

It took me a while to realise that the Islamist threat is actually real. It is, but maybe not yet, a clash of cultures - like a repeat of something that happened 400 years ago. I think that we (the west) may be perpetually at war for many decades to come.

I wonder what God/Allah thinks about it all.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Probie:

" Yeah, you're right. I was stupid to think that elite counter terrorist units, with decades of experience and training would have done better than the amazingly awesome Algerian military. "

Just for the record: The Algerian military HAS decades of experience fighting the islamists. In fact, they have been doing nothing else for the last few decades.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Just for the record: The Algerian military HAS decades of experience fighting the islamists. In fact, they have been doing nothing else for the last few decades.

Yeah? Well they sound like idiots when it comes to hostage rescue.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Probie,

"But my point here was you called the Algerians third world and that these first world forces could do better...." No. They CERTAINLY could.

Lol, hilarious. So maybe, just maybe if western special forces could have got their in time to save them. You know it would take at least a day or more to get special forces on scene, briefed and ready to go. You really think the hostage takers would have waited that long?

And given the setback the French suffered just last week and that other forces have suffered in the past not every action has a successful outcome you know. Just because the movies make these special forces look invincible doesn't make it so....

"Yeah maybe they could," Yes, they could, well done.

Again hilarious, you assume that just because they come from the US or UK or France they are automatically better than these "third world" soldiers..... As l said the elite French special forces got their backsides kicked by a bunch of third world terrorists just last week. The US special forces got spanked in Somalia a decade ago. And again in Afghanistan recently. So maybe you shouldn't be so sure of anything.

"I.e French raid on Somalia last week, the black hawk down fiasco, Iran hostage fiasco. Etc, etc, etc." Tell me the glorious history of the Algerian special forces, and their impeccable record of hostage rescue then.

Well lets see, they managed to defeat the French, they managed to defeat the Islamic revolution in 2002. Just out of curiosity has the US defeated any other militaries since WW2?

Yeah, you're right. I was stupid to think that elite counter terrorist units, with decades of experience and training would have done better than the amazingly awesome Algerian military.

Lol good one. My whole point is you bag a nation as being third world standard for a terrible action that happens on their soil. Yet when someone points out that this same sort of thing has happened to the same forces you are blow hot air up you get snide and nasty.... Well done.

I mean, look at how it raid was planned in such a surgical manner! “The army bombed four out of five of the trucks and four of them were destroyed ... He presumed everyone else in the other trucks was killed ... The truck my brother was in crashed and at that stage Stephen was able to make a break for his freedom.” Nothing says "elite hostage rescue" better than bombing the convoy with the hostages in.

Yeah terrible nothing like this ever happens with well equipped well train forces right? Um the Russian cinema siege ring a bell......

Just out of curiosity how many of the hostages survived and where rescued from this raid? It is being reported that 130 people escaped prior to the raid or where rescued during the raid. But that isn't being reported here now is it.... Maybe because they weren't japanese?

Another question for you, as the oil terminal is close to the Libyan border. The same Libya that the west helped recently in their war maybe we could look at that angle too? Where did the terrorists come from?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Outta here:

" See even the supposed first world militaries can get it wrong..... So my point your comments are a bit unfair and off target. "

They certainly can, and they certainly have many times. Just remember the disaster of the German response to the islamic terrorist attack at the Munich Olympics or the disaster of the Russian response to the islamic terrorist attack at the school in Beslan. The list is long. Only in Hollywood can a team of supermen perform a miraculous stunt like we are shown in the movies. To believe that a Western military would by necessity have performed better than the Algerians is to believe in Hollywood.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

WilliB,

Exactly right and sadly some people tend to think life will always work out for the good guys ala die hard, under siege, delta force etc.....

Sadly as events prove this isn't always the case.

And they tend to forget little matters like in the time it takes a SAS, delta force, seal team etc to get into position and ready a day or more could have elapsed. Hostages would have been killed and the terrorists could have (would have) reinforced their positions and it would have been a true blood bath.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

in those types of hostile locations

Hostile location ? Algeria is a relatively peaceful country. They had no reason to fear something like that.

The U.S. military isn't better than Algeria's

We should be impressed by... Iraq ? They are at the same level, no ? It's easy to criticize the Algerians today, but that's not the case there are armies that know how to deal with that type of terrorist op' in a satisfactory way. Also, saying that doing nothing and waiting would have saved lives is easy to say. Impossible to know.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Cos:

" Algeria is a relatively peaceful country. "

In what universe is that the case? The Algerian military has the islamist insurgency generally under control at the moment, but "peaceful country"???? Good grief! The Algerian islamist civil war was and is one of the bloodiest and prolonged conflicts in the world.

Just because Algeria does not pop up in mainstream media headlines everyday makes Algeria "peaceful"??

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Probie:

" Another question for you, as the oil terminal is close to the Libyan border. The same Libya that the west helped recently in their war maybe we could look at that angle too? "

Helped??? The West created the mess in Libya by helping the islamic terrorists. Well, yeah, of course the events are connected. With Gaddafi´s massive arms depots now open to all sorts of islamists, and islamist groups in control of Libya itself, OF COURSE you see increased islamist power all over the neighbourhood too. Including in Libya itself... does Bengazi ring a bell for you?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Since this is a BP depot it should have been left up to the SAS and support troops to have dealt with this. What it needed was a surgical incision, not a lump hammer!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

In what universe is that the case?

I have many friends that work and live there. Maybe they are dead and they don't know it ?

The Algerian islamist civil war was and is one of the bloodiest and prolonged conflicts in the world.

Like Korean war, Vietnam... But it's 2013. You can walk in Algiers or Seoul and not getting shot dead.

Just because Algeria does not pop up in mainstream media headlines everyday makes Algeria "peaceful"??

No, because it's reality. You are biased by media report, that concerns only the violence. And it's a huge territory, they do have zones that are unsafe, were hostages were taken previously. But the inhabited part, and even some large desert areas (like that around the plant), have not lived in open violence in the last decade. If you don't get it, you largely miss the signification of the events. For us, it's as big as if that had happened in Italy... The ambivalent feeling : "Good, it's not in France..." and "Oh sh.t, if they can do it there, they can as well come to Paris.". And that raises huge questions how Islamists can now do so big operations outside their previously usual zones of actions.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@WilliB

Probie: " Another question for you, as the oil terminal is close to the Libyan border. The same Libya that the west helped recently in their war maybe we could look at that angle too? "

Helped??? The West created the mess in Libya by helping the islamic terrorists. Well, yeah, of course the events are connected. With Gaddafi´s massive arms depots now open to all sorts of islamists, and islamist groups in control of Libya itself, OF COURSE you see increased islamist power all over the neighbourhood too. Including in Libya itself... does Bengazi ring a bell for you?

Wrong person, dude. I never said that.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Where's Seal Team 6, stat!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Terrorists talk tough, but they are really just a bunch of cowards.

Cowards? Certainly misguided bravery, but not cowards. A wise man respects his enemies, can step into his shoes and understand his thoughts and emotions, and then step back.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

A wise man also does not suffer fools except to learn from their mistakes. The ideology behind these kinds of terrorist groups are not of bravery, but blind zeaolot beliefs and foolishness. Cowardice is attacking those without arms because they can't fight back and then taking them as hostages to bargain with.

The fault does not lie with anyone but the terrorists that initiate these acts. Remember how in movies the bad guys always say, "I have a hostage that I will kill if you don't do as I say? And if I do kill them because you didn't do as I said their blood is on your hands!" Nothing but smoke and mirrors for a very misguided guilt trip for the gullible. They're the ones that have killed someone that has nothing to do with their "cause" or situation.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The terrorists are such lowlife cowards. There is no negotiation and no peace possible with them. The Russians have the right ideal, take them out when possible. Do not give them a platform to do propaganda. You may lose hostages but giving in loses the war.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Algierian military,U.S. military,U.K. military,French military it all makes no difference yes the US UK or french might have been better equiped better planning but with lunatics like these terrorist any military can fail at hostage rescues. The terrorist are un-predictable dont matter algerian special forces or SEALs or SAS or Russian Spetznaz or Polish GROM or even the Jedi Order from star wars sadly the only way to really hit these degenerates hard is to unfortunately go all out and just hope the civilian casualties is way lower than you expect. As soon as they see you have no time for their non-sense then they will realize taking hostages wont be as effective

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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