2 U.S. soldiers accused of raping teenage girls in S Korea

On Saturday, a minor labor party called for restricting the movement of American soldiers outside their bases.

Non-sense. Either you want the soldiers there in Korea and think they will protect you or you don't. Make up your mind. Because if you are worried about females getting raped then it would save more of them to lockdown the civilians of South Korea. Or is this a race/nationality thing? If so, send the Americans home. Don't lock them up then expect them to come running to your aid at just that special moment.

I can guarantee dozens of females were raped in South Korea this year and not by American soldiers either. Where is the outrage?

Being questioned by police but has not been arrested........These guys shall never being punished and thiscase wont being the last one! By the way, curfewing their own troops on aforeign soil stationing?? Was that the greatest laughing stock ever heard in world military history.......was that a kind of 'collective punishment'?

"...a city north of Seoul." ???

Would that be Uijeongbu or TDC?

Both are pretty well-known towns, where teenage girls should either be there as 'business women', or be gone.

These guys shall never receieve any legal actions, they wont sit in jail besides discharge from duty!

This is not going to end well.

If these guys are found guilty, then they should rot in a South Korean jail according to Korean law for it. None of this extraterritoriality crap that manages to protect dirtbags like these two soldier from a rightful dispensation of justice according to the laws of the country in which they commit the crime.

It's no wonder Koreans are angry. They can already see these two getting off the hook because of unfathomable rationale like that posted here Oct. 08, 2011 at 06:04PM JST .

On Saturday, a minor labor party called for restricting the movement of American soldiers outside their bases.

There have been a number of books written about this, namely how the Korean women who work in the "juicy bars" and other sex industry places near the bases are ostricized by the rest of the Koreans, and if they have any children, these biracial children can face discremination from the general Korean populace. One thing I remember from one of the books was how Koreans who even worked on the bases, had disdain for interracial dating between Koreans and Americans, yet they will gladly go there to work, and set up shops that cater to Americans. Another story from the same book (I believe it was called "In the Shadows of the Camptowns"), one woman who served as a prostitute in one of the bars helped put her brother through college, only to have him publicly reject her because of her work (he was some type of politician and an anti-base one at that).

I think this guy is just trying to get more publicity off a tragic case.

Both are pretty well-known towns, where teenage girls should either be there as 'business women', or be gone.

I believe that is true. The last time I was in SK, I noticed more Filipina women working in these areas. One Korean mama-san told me that as the economy goes up, the Korean girls who work in the areas where Americans are go back to working in Korean only bars and clubs, thus you had a huge influx of FIlipina. Only when things get slow in the economy do you see Korean women come back into these areas.

Reading the Stars & Stripes, it loooks like the one soldier was drunk and broke into a girls room. If that is the case, then he will be sacrificed to quell the outrage. Not sure on the other case.

"In 1995, the rape of a 12-year-old Japanese girl by U.S. service members in Okinawa sparked one of the biggest anti-U.S. protests in Japan. "

The US should just take a page from Japan's "they may have done it, but they were not representing Japan" white-wash of Imperial Army troops raping sex slaves... seems to have worked for the J-government, so might help the US.

Okay, that little bit of hypocrisy pointed out, if they find that both of these men are indeed guilty they should be handed over to SKorean authorities so long as the trial is observed and deemed fair. Along with all the requisite apologies and compensation, of course.

There are good and bad in all groups and all walks of life, some U.S. Milliary personal are fine some are bordering on insane and some are just plan bad, no different from civillians

The so-called alliance of democracies in north east asia is very very fragile! Sure the DPRK will took these as boardcasting materials and the escalations of South korean nationalism and resentment of US troops occupying their soil! The south koreans understood their laws were completely 'useless' when implying over US servicemen!

One of my American best friends is deployed to Afghanistan. I asked him what he wants for the care package and he said he wants pictures of my b**bs. I thought he was just kidding, but he kept asking and I said no. He got upset with me, and then he deleted me from his Facebook friends and blocked me!!! I'm so shocked. I have known him for over ten years and he's not like that. Is it really hard, stressful, and frustrating for soldiers to living in a foreign country? Or those 2 soldiers in Korea and my friend are just perv in the first place?

@Mahiru: Get used with that....your friend has 'defended your freedom for 10 years'! His request is part of the alliance is for!

Mahiru: Interesting avatar, given your comment. I'm sure they're job there is stressful and that got in the way of being rational when you rejected their initial requests, which were probably only half in jest (if that). But then, I'm not sure you can compare the stresses of being stationed in Japan and Korea with that of Afghanistan, nor can you compare asking for a b##b shot to physical rape. Yes, stress is stress, and there really is no excuse for any of the behaviour mentioned, I'm just saying it's not really comparable. It's good that you stuck to your guns, though, and if they deleted you solely for the reason that you refused to degrade yourself (since you didn't consent to doing it) then no one can but respect you for that choice, and good riddance to them (on Facebook). Who knows, maybe they'll come to their senses and apologize in the future.

smith only you cold turn an article about US soldiers being charged with rape in South Korea today into a blurb about Imperial Japan in the 1940s and "sex slaves".

OssanAmerica: I only turned the article into that if you made it as such -- all I did was mention the hypocrisy after quoting the relation to Japanese rape incidents with US military at the end of the article. Good on you for proving my point 100%. Thank you.

Unlike you, though, I actually went on to talk about how that point extended to the topic at hand (ie. hypocrisy), and stated flat out that while Japan denies any wrong doing on behalf of the government (since, you know, 'the article has turned'), if these soldiers are indeed guilty the US military should hand them over to the SK government for trial under their jurisdiction. You? you can't even comment on the thread, as usual. :) As such, what's your thoughts, 'OssanAmerica' on these American troops who may or may not have raped these SK women? (seems at least one incident was true, as there is an official apology for an actual rape) or are you just going to 'bad' vote me and avoid the argument?

Done a lot of thinking about this and have concluded rape happens in all socialites. You have 40k plus Americans and 2 of them commit this horrible crime. IF guilty the soldiers should pay the same penalty as anyone else in South Korea. About the rape of the Okinawan girl, the criminals paid the penalty and were deported from Japan. Not to make light of their crime not long after a pair of Japanese men from the "home" islands kidnapped, raped and killed an Okinawa girl. No one ever demonstrated against mainland men. So if the South wants to use this as an excuse to eject the Americans, am sure they would leave.

In the first case, the guy didn't know the girl. According to Korean web news, he tied her and tortured her (don't wanna go into details). He was off duty in 4AM, so he is going to Korean jail if proven guilty. The second case is kinda suspicious-the girl says she was raped, the guy says it was consentual, and he also admitted of stealing her laptop, which may have pissed her mightly.

god damn people that rape others, they all should burn at the stake!!! Rape is a major crime against humanity.

@YuriOtani

Done a lot of thinking about this and have concluded rape happens in all socialites. You have 40k plus Americans and 2 of them commit this horrible crime. IF guilty the soldiers should pay the same penalty as anyone else in South Korea. About the rape of the Okinawan girl, the criminals paid the penalty and were deported from Japan. Not to make light of their crime not long after a pair of Japanese men from the "home" islands kidnapped, raped and killed an Okinawa girl. No one ever demonstrated against mainland men. So if the South wants to use this as an excuse to eject the Americans, am sure they would leave.

Of course they won't, honey, they are nothing but afraid little cowards... Why the people didn't protest about what they did? I mean, they didn't only raped her but they also KILLED her!! Why the silence? Because they were from the mainland?! BS! Double standards! simple as that. So its OK for Japanese to rape our people there in Okinawa but if a Foreign person does it, then we have to lynch him literally, huh? The great majority of rapes in Japan are committed by Japanese against Japanese, period. Rapists, regardless of their race, are scum to me. They aren't human. Just plain garbage.

By the way...

I have to admit that when it comes to gang-rape, South Korea is paradise. They still let rapists get away with mere suspended sentences, they rarely send someone to prison over rape. There is one case of a young girl that came to my mind. Extremely lack of punishment and somehow they condone rape as something that's inevitable, what the hell?! I always thought Japan was bad but SK is truly rotten when it comes to punish rapists in court. http://asiancorrespondent.com/66085/appeals-court-finds-gang-rape-to-be-not-so-serious/

Despite the impressions caused by media coverage (where rapes by servicemen get big headlines while rapes by locals are largely ignored), having a base nearby does not equal a significantly elevated risk of rape.

That said, servicemen are guests in the countries that host them, and therefore should be held to a higher standard. One will reluctantly tolerate all sorts of behavior from a family member that would not be acceptable from a guest in one's home. It is the military's job to maintain order and discipline, not only for the sake of diplomatic relations but for the sake of the local populace as well. I hope that justice is served in both these cases (whatever that may entail) and that it is a long time before we have to hear about this sort of thing again.

It only takes a few bad apples to ruin our image here in Japan or in South Korea! The death penalty would help control crazy perverts in and out of the military IMHO. Japan and Korea are full of perverts raping torturing stalking and killing women but both are stupid hypocrites like Bluewitch stated above. Japanese and Korean dudes rape everyday but no outrage??? Wtf?? Wake up and realize that this is stupid and time to be more fare in these cases!!!

BlueWitch,

That article is horrifying. The attidues toward rape exhibited by the court are positively prehistoric.

Folks, while I agree wholeheartedly that local media places a disproportionate amount of emphasis on foreign soldiers raping locals, versus locals raping locals, I can't really see why anyone here is truly surprised.

I mean, really -- A foreign soldier, ostensibily here at the invitation of the host country's government, and by extention the civilian public that gives that government mandate to extend such invitation, abusing that courtesy by raping a local citizen. Yeah, I'd be pretty pissed off about it too, particularly when the invitation isn't one the civilian population isn't 100% behind in the first place.

Think of it this way: You invite a friend over to your house to watch TV with you and your siblings. Your younger brother doesn't particularly like that he has to give up his seat to this friend when he's there, but hey, he'll deal with it since the friend is a guest. This friend suddenly decides to punch you in the mouth for no particular reason. Meanwhile, your younger brother decides to unch you as well. Who do you think you're going to be more angry with? Who do you think the parents should take greater issue with?

"Us versus them" and the concepts of "in-group" and "out-group" really aren't that difficult to understand and apply to why foreign soldiers raping locals garners such over-the-top media attention. Guests assaulting the host will usually get that, I would think.

And it certainly doesn't help when the common and reasonable assumption that a local raping a local will almost certanly face justice fs caught (regardless of whether or not we as outsiders agree with how that justice is dispensed) goes out the window when the assilant is a foreign soldier. Which again, would do a lot to garner a severe reaction from the locals.

Let's clean up that last parapraph:

And it certainly doesn't help when the common and reasonable assumption that a local raping a local will almost certainly face justice if caught (regardless of whether or not we as outsiders agree with how that justice is dispensed) goes out the window when the assailant is a foreign soldier. Which again, would do a lot to garner a severe reaction from the locals.

I am sorry, but the argument about the Japanese/ Korean vs U.S. soldiers' rape is absurd. There are 127 million Japanese in Japan and 50 million Koreans in S. Korea while the total number of U.S. servicemen in both countries is approximately 80,000 soldiers. It makes sense that there would be more rapes by locals than by U.S. servicemen.

It also makes sense that such a tragic event will get more popularity in media as well as protests in the streets since many people are by default against the presence of U.S bases in their countries. Moreover, the servicemen are considered to be honorable guests for the protection of the host countries and therefore, such a crime will get more attention than the average local vs local crime.

I hope they get punished properly. A rapist is a rapist, no matter his age, race, nationality, religion, etc.

These are the stories that will never make it in yahoo or msn, instead, those sites will always make an US soldier as a martyr or hero, bunch of balogne!

Both soldiers should be given an unbiased fair trial, but at the end of it if they are found guilty ,then their sentence should be in contingency with the law of the land where the violation took place and any sentence served therein.

Guests assaulting the host will usually get that, I would think.

It may not be hard to understand, but it still does not make it right and it does not make it sensible either. Its downright loony even if it is common. This is not one guest, but thousands, and most are behaving. The few that are not are to be expected. Its a matter of course, just as the simple fact that more Koreans are raping Koreans and they have no more or less right to do so.

And to use this as a political football and podium to voice opposition to the bases may also be common and easy to understand, but is just as crazy. Its neither here nor there. As a testiment to the stupidity of the human race though, it is effective.

And it certainly doesn't help when the common and reasonable assumption that a local raping a local will almost certainly face justice if caught...

And there you made the supreme point but downplayed it. That is the only solid reason to take to the streets on this one. Its everything.

I certainly hope these guys don't off just for being American soldiers.

It makes sense that there would be more rapes by locals than by U.S. servicemen.

Yes, but it also seems that servicemen commit less per capita as well. Like I said in my first post, if the issue is rape prevention, they should lock down the locals not the servicemen. But many are making this about other things and using this news as a tool for other ends. The rapes are not their true concern, and that is disgusting, shameful and vile.

I back anyone 100 percent whose only point is that they may escape justice for being servicemen. But use of these rapes for political advantage on another issue, such as collective punishment of other soldiers, xenophobia, or removal of bases will only get condemnation from me. Mind you, they have every right to want the bases gone, but anyone using this as a reason is an uninformed moron that I won't give creedence to. If they do not accept that fewer foreign guests rape than their own people any way you slice it, then they are a pack of fat hypocrites.

Oh, I need to clarify something. Using the the fact that they may avoid justice as a protest for removal of bases is fine. But using the rapes themselves is way off base (pun intented).

BlueWitch, I could not agree with you more. There needs to be a single standard, not one for Japanese people, Korean people, American people .... A tragedy should not be used to forward political agenda for any group. Hope the Korean people keep things in perspective. These are 2 criminals in a pact of good people. Do not punish the group for the actions of the few.

That's absolutely right, Yuri, throw them all in jail regardless of their race or nationality. Rapists are Rapists, period. It's just utterly shameful that we do not have laws strong enough to give real sentences and long jail time to this scum, on the other hand, the Koreans should be deeply ashamed. Condoning rape as something natural and inevitable!! You read the article I posted on one of my posts in this thread right? They gave suspended sentences to 4 men in their 20's after gang-raping a 12 year old elementary school girl. Shame shame on the Korean Government! Japan needs to clean their act as well. Too much leniency for these animals raping innocent people and children!! Too much corruption and leniency! Why?!

BlueWitch: At least they got some punishment in Korea.

Another good reason to send the US troops home from Japan and South Korea. Drones, stealth fighters and other high-tech defenses are sufficient. Defend yourself, just remember the US forces are invisible beneath the sea and in the air. Really, why should the US taxpayer subsidize these economies by paying for services? Many people may be angry at this question, but it is a question US taxpayers are beginning to ask.

Bluewitch, Devil, details. Nothing in your article indicates the girl did not want the encounter or is even upset over it. I am inclined to believe the girl has had similar encounters, noting who she was with when she met the guys and the fact that she had been drinking. And it does not seem she was passed out or anything, or forced to drink and while drunk was awake. This was not some innocent waif whisked out of her own bedroom. It does not look like a gang rape, as in, she was kidnapped and brutalized. They all went to a hotel and no force was used, or trickery apparently.

What could change my mind is if it was the girl herself who filed the complaint. But the fact that the article states that an "agreement" as been reached and she apparently does not want them punished tell us a lot.

For making the case that Koreans tolerate rape of their own by their own, the case you are going on about only subverts it. Also, that lack of details in that article and this one at JT also speaks incredible volumes. Seems a lot of people just love to pull the wool over our eyes by omitting inconvenient details that subvert their screams of RAPE!

No one ever demonstrated against mainland men. So if the South wants to use this as an excuse to eject the Americans, am sure they would leave.

Why are you sure they would leave? They haven't left Okinawa.. have they?

Why would you equate rape in the indiginous society, with rape committed by unneeded foreign soldiers (south korea and japan can defend themselves) against local women, since those rapes are "imposed" by your own govt (since by your logic all societies have rape) for allowing the soldiers to continue to be there? Additional rapes that is unnecessary so to speak..

I've always advocated that if a foriegn national is guilty of a crime by the local nations law, and there is enough hard core evidence to prove it beyond a shadow of doubt then the foriegn national should be punished by the nation that they commited the crime in. If these 2 are dound guilty by the US military (young men aren't known for keeping their brains outside of their pants, especially being cooped up in a milfitary base with lots of other men...testosterone lvls run high and aggression does too) then turn them over to the SK justice system to serve out their sentance. Only problem is that when one turns over one of their own soldiers to a country that even though it has a treatise with, the soldier may be subject to interrogation for information sensitive to the US military. So its pretty hard to just say, "One of our soldiers commited a crime so we'll just give them up and let you guys deal with it."

Personally I agree that if these two are guilty they should be punished by the SK court system, but safest would probably be to have the SK system pass the sentance but keep them on the base in lock-up for the sentance to be carried out. Or if they do get put into a SK prison the US will have to send people to check on them to make sure any "sensitive" information is not being extracted from them.

Nothing in your article indicates the girl did not want the encounter or is even upset over it.

In most first world countries a 12 year-olds consent is legally irrelevant.

The SOFA protects US servicemen/women from indictment of the local authorities, they were outlaws and power above everything!