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Medical examiner confirms Epstein death a suicide by hanging

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By MICHAEL BALSAMO, LARRY NEUMEISTER and MICHAEL R. SISAK

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I expected that conclusion, but I do not believe it. He was murdered, or perhaps might even still be alive.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

I expected that conclusion, but I do not believe it. He was murdered, or perhaps might even still be alive.

"*What is the cost of lies? It's not that we'll mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all.*"

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Medical examiner confirms Epstein death a suicide by hanging

But of course he does! He does not want to commit suicide after all.

So again.... nothing to see here, folks, move on, the emperor is fully clothed.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

How convenient...Gold Diggers coming from far and wide now...

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Washington DC is in the pits of despair and their life blood runs over.

The only evidence that seems strange is Epstein was heard “shouting and shrieking from his jail cell” (CBS) but the officers couldn’t revive him when they reached him. Does the coroner state that the broken neck bones caused an instantaneous death?

Honestly, this guy isn’t worth a good conspiracy theory.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

An extremely high profile prisoner with evidence on extremely powerful people, who everyone knew they couldn't afford to lose, and who apparently tried to commit suicide a week earlier - is taken off suicide watch.

The day before, his cell mate is moved out, leaving him alone.

The guards who were supposed to check on him fell asleep. Both of them.

The video camera coincidentally malfunctioned that particular night, leaving us with no video record of what happened,

And this guy was one of the most valuable prisoners ever held there.

One would have to be a fool to accept all these coincidences at face value. Even if he did commit suicide, the implication is that they knowingly made it easy for him. Which is in itself a conspiracy.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

USA Today has this to say:

"Fractures of the hyoid bone in suicide hangings are rare and when you further keep in mind this was not a suicide hanging from stepping off a high ladder," said Wecht.

According to reports, Epstein had tied a bed-sheet to the bunk and kneeled on the ground and then leaned forward to kill himself.

That maneuver, Wecht said, is not conducive to breaking bones.

And there were sounds of "shrieking and screaming" coming from his cell.

And given the factors that commanteer outlines above, I'd say it's pretty suspect.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

An extremely high profile prisoner with evidence on extremely powerful people, who everyone knew they couldn't afford to lose, and who apparently tried to commit suicide a week earlier - is taken off suicide watch.

The day before, his cell mate is moved out, leaving him alone.

The guards who were supposed to check on him fell asleep. Both of them.

The video camera coincidentally malfunctioned that particular night, leaving us with no video record of what happened,

And this guy was one of the most valuable prisoners ever held there.

One would have to be a fool to accept all these coincidences at face value. Even if he did commit suicide, the implication is that they knowingly made it easy for him. Which is in itself a conspiracy.

Yep.... nothing to see here, move on. I say the moonlanding being faked has a higher plausibility rating than this super-convenient suicide. ...

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

I expected that conclusion, but I do not believe it. He was murdered, or perhaps might even still be alive.

You can’t prove that and you’re not a pathologist. Dr. Baden said, the manner in which he killed himself is strange, but very similar to the way Robin Williams killed himself and Baden is a legend in the pathology world, did autopsies on thousands of people including Nichole Simpson and Ron Goldman. Not saying The circumstances surrounding his death and how it happened or not unusual, but murder? So far nothing points to that, but negligence and motive is a different story.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Still plenty of documents and evidence to move forward with prosecution of others.

im sure they found lots of stuff in his house. Like that painting of Bill Clinton in a dress. Can’t unsee that one.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Well at least that creepy painting settles the discussion that a Bill Clinton was indeed Epsteins best friend. Hope he had nothing to do with his death. Coroner says no, so guess it’s no.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Curiouser and curiouser.

This one is going to go to be thrown on the same pile as the mysterious gunman on the grassy knoll and Roswell.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The Bureau of Prisons said Epstein had apparently killed himself

The Bureau of Prisons is an agency under the US Department of Justice.

The US Attorney General is the head of the Department of Justice. The FBI is another agency under the DOJ. 

William Barr is the US Attorney General. William Barr is a lifelong deep swampman representing and protecting the far right faction of the establishment. 

William Barr was appointed by Trump. Key to William Barr’s mission is defending Trump and doing whatever he can to help the far right faction of the establishment while increasing Trump’s executive powers.

The question that has to be asked is whether Barr’s protecting someone or some oneS in this case.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Indeed.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@blacklabreepy painting settles the discussion that a Bill Clinton was indeed Epsteins best friend. 

Settles? Perhaps in the minds of those fearing liberals haunting their minds. It could well be Epstein was mocking Clinton. The alt right (US and 'foreign') will next suggest Clinton posed for the picture. Which is as asinine as saying Trump posed for the blimp depicting his excess.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"Medical examiner confirms Epstein death a suicide by hanging" means

"Medical examiner CLAIMS Epstein death a suicide by hanging"

The ONLY "conspiracy theory" I see so far is this one and even Bigfoot wouldn't believe THIS crap.

Multiple 'cervical dislocations' PLUS a crushed hyoid. For a Human six feet tall and skinny, hanging themselves from a bedpost shorter than themselves. With an untorn sheet. Why not? Just previously he had been ruled capable of suicide by self-strangulation (no sheet ever mentioned) and put on 'suicide watch' after waking from unconsciousness with no memory of what happened and his neck heavily bruised. Anyone who could be capable of death by self-strangulation MIGHT be able to break their own neck and hyoid also, no? But a high risk con man who still had powerful cards to play including perhaps, some trump cards? With his narcissism, suicide seems very unlikely. The average person will think maybe "shame" killed him but that average person is also completely incapable of imagining a Human personality which has absolutely no sympathy, altruism, or conscience. Can't do it, despite meeting these people in banks, as political candidates, as CEOs, as the kid down the block who hangs cats, the racist, oddly or not the highly religious, and other social roles known to attract and have high concentrations of psychopaths, the average Human will just remark how "warm and friendly" they all seem. When a psychopath is desperate enough to commit suicide, they are the very small minority of suicides who are personally incapable of doing it to themselves and seek to ensure their death by murdering others, perhaps known, perhaps unknown, it doesn't matter to them. These are what the media is calling 'gun deaths' but they are just suicides requiring drama for success and personal satisfaction. And people like this, often the intellectually lesser of them, fill our prisons. But, for the psychopath, if there is ANY hope at all, SURVIVAL at ALL costs. Ep did not go voluntarily and, as reported by witnesses, screamed and yelled which may have necessitated the fast cervical dislocations that otherwise would require a couple of meters of gravitational acceleration and ~1 centimeter of braking to achieve breaking. Many hung in the past suffocate because they had too strong of a neck. Those are the ones who kick a lot if you happen to be watching. And risk? The potential risk of a botched assassination or coverup versus the REAL risk of Ep trading political Moby's for that witpro beach on Phuket. Risk analysis would have left no choice. Call Ziva. Lots of her relatives centrally in the picture here. Or maybe whoever did Diana for the Royal Family did this also for the Prince(?). In the crime shows, he, Ep, is supposed to have a 'friend' holding a poison bomb of evidence to be mailed to say a newspaper. In reality, all possible receiving outlets would be made to understand that to publish any of it would be to die in the "terrorist" bombing of their offices which would follow. Too far out? You've not been paying attention, have you? And Americans unquestioningly believe ANYTHING now that comes from anywhere they consider Authority and deny, regardless of what their eyes actually see, anything which Authority denies. Obedient. In belief as in response to commands.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

a suicide by hanging

Yeah, right! That whopper is bigger than the ones I eat at Burger King.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

The true story of the painting of Bill Clinton in a blue dress (Parsing Bill) is here:

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/bill-clinton-blue-dress-painting-jeffrey-epstein-1628437

for those who want to read it.

He didn't pose for it, it wasn't commissioned by Epstein. The same artist also painted a picture of Bush Junior throwing paper planes, presumably thinking about Iraq. Now that one I believe.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"I expected that conclusion, but I do not believe it. He was murdered, or perhaps might even still be alive."

You can’t prove that and you’re not a pathologist. Dr. Baden said, the manner in which he killed himself is strange, but very similar to the way Robin Williams killed himself and Baden is a legend in the pathology world,

Dr. Baden will say whatever his clients want. You should check out videos of his statements on a number of famous cases, including JFK.

This claim by this paid expert says one thing, and everything else (see comment by commanteer and others) says something else.

BTW Corbett has a good report here:

https://www.corbettreport.com/epsteindeath/

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

William Barr is the US Attorney General. William Barr is a lifelong deep swampman representing and protecting the far right faction of the establishment. 

That doesn’t mean he murdered the man or had it planned and by the way, off topic for a second, if Barr does fight for the rights and self interests of conservatives, what or how is that different from what liberals do? Come on now....

William Barr was appointed by Trump. Key to William Barr’s mission is defending Trump

Holder protected Obama, so what’s your point? Every President has the right to have an AG that has their backs.

and doing whatever he can to help the far right faction of the establishment while increasing Trump’s executive powers.

Don't worry, if there is another Democrat President, his/her AG will do the same, that’s a promise.

The question that has to be asked is whether Barr’s protecting someone or some oneS in this case.

No one will ever know either way.

But I understand, I had a lot of questions the last years as well.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

William Barr is the US Attorney General. William Barr is a lifelong deep swampman representing and protecting the far right faction of the establishment. 

Yeah, but don’t let the globalist establishment fool you. The far right, right, left and far left “faction”s are sitting at a round table sharing a bottle of 1946 Macallan Scotch awaiting their tea time, LTAO.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I'm still holding steady with my theory that there was gross staffing issues in the prisons with employees working a lot overtime and sleeping through shifts. And then Epstein killed himself.

Not very exciting or sexy, I know. Sorry.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I think he probably did kill himself, and was assisted so that it would be easier. I also assume he was providing information to a spy agency, maybe the CIA, maybe Israel... who knows? Obviously, he was helped financially and otherwise by unknown sources. There is no good explanation for his wealth. With the treasure trove of blackmail info he had, he must have been approached by intelligence agencies, and was likely working with at least one. They could have made it plain to him that suicide was his best option, and then arranged conditions in the jail so that he could do it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Trump's theory he'll tweet tomorrow....

The Clinton's ordered Area 51 to send a UFO to pick up a Bigfoot, who then went to the stage where the Moon Landing was faked and joined up with JFK Jr and Ted Cruz's father, who then beamed into Epstein's cell and killed him...and Obama was in on it too....

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Another suicide by association. ties his own hands behind his back before hanging himself

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

SuperLibToday 12:49 pm JST

I'm still holding steady with my theory that there was gross staffing issues in the prisons with employees working a lot overtime and sleeping through shifts. And then Epstein killed himself.

Not very exciting or sexy, I know. Sorry.

Your theory may not be very exciting or sexy, but in the absence of anything else other than rumour, innuendo and an addiction to conspiracy theories, I'll hold steady to that theory too.

As other probable explanations for the death I'd also throw in straight-out stupidity and criminal negligence on the part of the so-called "authorities".

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Good riddance to rotten rubbish. Now let's tear down the whole pyramid of crimes and corruption!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Superlib, BigYen,

LOL!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I'm still holding steady with my theory that there was gross staffing issues in the prisons with employees working a lot overtime and sleeping through shifts. And then Epstein killed himself.

Not very exciting or sexy, I know. Sorry.

Also not probable.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I'm still holding steady with my theory that there was gross staffing issues in the prisons with employees working a lot overtime and sleeping through shifts. And then Epstein killed himself.

____

Even being visited every 30 minutes would have left plenty of time. But there were staffing issues in not having the resources to keep him on suicide watch indefinitely.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Kestrel, Serrano:

“The conspiracy theories concerning the Epstein death are multiplying,”... "The facts seem unbelievable. But it is best to wait for some key facts like the findings of the autopsy. Withholding judgement is the wisest course to follow.” - Rudy Giuliani on Twitter.

What with your Prez saying one thing, and Rudy saying the opposite, must be very hard for you guys to know what to think.

Sorry the autopsy didn't work out for ya.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Never believe anything until it is officially denied...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I just read that, while the Medical Examiner was at lunch yesterday, Epstein cremated himself.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I just read that, while the Medical Examiner was at lunch yesterday, Epstein cremated himself.

That is just as believable as the rest of the story...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

[ [ Epstein's autopsy reportedly showed multiple broken neck bones, the Washington Post wrote Thursday, citing anonymous sources. But the curiosity surrounds one of the broken bones: The hyoid. 

Though the bone is small, it's been critical in several high-profile cases. The reason: The hyoid can break when a person dies by hanging, particularly when a person is older. But it can also provide tell-tale clues that a person was strangled.

Guards found Epstein unconscious after he had been taken off of a prison suicide watch. His death was called an "apparent suicide" by federal authorities. 

Cyril Wecht, a forensic pathologist, told USA TODAY that he's skeptical.

"Fractures of the hyoid bone are almost always associated with manual strangulation," Wecht said. "Because a hand gets up high underneath the chin of the victim."

Wecht said that multiple breaks or fractures in neck bones are rare to find in suicidal hangings. 

A fractured hyoid is possible from any blunt trauma to the neck. However, it is more common in a strangling than in a hanging, according to the National Center for Biotechnology Information. 

"Fractures of the hyoid bone in suicide hangings are rare and when you further keep in mind this was not a suicide hanging from stepping off a high ladder," said Wecht.

According to reports, Epstein had tied a bed-sheet to the bunk and kneeled on the ground and then leaned forward to kill himself.

That maneuver, Wecht said, is not conducive to breaking bones.

"In majority of those you don't see fractures because there is no great amount of force," said Wecht. "It's basic physics."

Death would likely come from pressure applied to the neck and cut off circulation of nerves, particularly the vagus nerve, which is the tenth cranial nerve and longest nerve in the body, Wecht said.

Questions surrounding Epstein's death, and any outstanding circumstances, such as his guards sleeping through checks, still fester.

And the bottom line, Wecht said, is that multiple fractures in suicide hangings are rare.

"This case right now has very strong odor to it," said Wecht. ]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/08/15/mystery-surrounds-hyoid-break-epstein-death-suicide-murder/2017579001/

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Security guards drugged, Security Camera switched off.. oh.. such fodder for a conspiracy theory... were SAS forces, acting upon direct instruction from the Queen of England to bump off this chap before he "told all" ?

Maybe Hollywood being fed up with having to make remakes of remakes, decided to create a situation that would for years, inspire conspiracy related blockbuster action films raking in Billions of $ ...

In a few months time, it will be off the front pages and we will be reading about the next scandal ...

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I hope these so called accusers also get thoroughly investigated and if found falsifying claims, be held accountable and prosecuted for actions that led to a suicide.

An 18 year old girl having sex with an older man willingly should not lead to the man being subjected to the accusation of Pedophilia.

A 14-15 year old Girl being invited to an older mans place, without Parental consent is a gross dereliction of Parental duty, and if leading to sex would be Pedophilia.

But why do we hear now of these events and not back when they arose ? There's a common pattern of people jumping onto the bandwagon in the hope that they can make a quick buck out of a false / weak accusation many years after the event... and then demanding a huge payout saying they'd suffered Mental issues.... This is a relatively new type of thing - a bit like the "Whiplash" or Ambulance chasing cases or past... smacks of Lawyers seeking new ways to make "the" big payout and retire themselves rather than caring about the victims.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

mmwkdwToday 10:29 pm JSTSecurity guards drugged, Security Camera switched off.. oh.. such fodder for a conspiracy theory... were SAS forces, acting upon direct instruction from the Queen of England to bump off this chap before he "told all" ?

Maybe Hollywood being fed up with having to make remakes of remakes, decided to create a situation that would for years, inspire conspiracy related blockbuster action films raking in Billions of $ ...

More fodder for 'Untold Stories' on late night TV, to spook ya. Or maybe the National Enquirer for 'enquiring minds who need to know'. People talked the same thing about the original Nazi Rudolf Hess when he hung himself in Spandau Prison in 1987. The scumbag killed himself.

This scumbag killed himself too. Bye bye, hateful garbage. Ain't nobody gonna miss ya.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Now following on the above... why would the Rich & Powerful be associating with such a man in the first place

?

If he had the reputation for always having the freshest/youngest Hookers in Parties, then those claims made by the women should surely be dismissed as they were clearly selling themselves for sex.

A lot of people wonder about these Rich folks parties, but for us common folk, Swinger related parties are quite common, and its not all couples being involved. www.adultfriendfinder.com is/was a site where you could partake in such events quite easily without age verification. (I think they have wisely had Legal advice recently, and banned non-paying members from active involvement on their "site")

2 ( +2 / -0 )

mmwkdwAug. 17 10:54 pm JSTNow following on the above... why would the Rich & Powerful be associating with such a man in the first place

?

If he had the reputation for always having the freshest/youngest Hookers in Parties, then those claims made by the women should surely be dismissed as they were clearly selling themselves for sex.

A lot of people wonder about these Rich folks parties, but for us common folk, Swinger related parties are quite common, and its not all couples being involved. www.adultfriendfinder.com is/was a site where you could partake in such events quite easily without age verification

If these hookers were 18+ then it's the age of consent. Anything less is pedophilia. Nonetheless, sex-trafficking of females (adult or not) is a serious criminal offense and Epstein committed these crimes. Now we need to punish all the others who have taken part of the trafficking be it Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, businessman Les Wexner, whoever, ALL.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

This was not a suicide, it was a well engineered hit because Epstein has so much dirt on powerful people.It will be interesting to see if his black book of names gets published and anything gets done.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

This was not a suicide, it was a well engineered hit because Epstein has so much dirt on powerful people.

So was it a hitman that operates in federal prisons or an inside job, a guard or management ? They won't be seeing the money long either way.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

So was it a hitman that operates in federal prisons or an inside job, a guard or management ? 

The Bureau of Prisons is an agency under the US Department of Justice.

The US Attorney General is the head of the Department of Justice. The FBI is another agency under the DOJ. 

William Barr is the US Attorney General. Barr was appointed by Trump.

Epstein's death happened under DOJ watch. Epstein was a high profile prisoner, one you would think would be watched most carefully.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

This one is going to go to be thrown on the same pile as the mysterious gunman on the grassy knoll and Roswell.

No, completely different level. Occams razor is pretty clear on this one. It is more like on the level that Hillary Clinton completely by accident deleted all here 30,000 emails on char sharing and cooking recepies on her toilet server.

The label "conspiracy theories" covers a very broad range. You have to look at them individually.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@willibThe label "conspiracy theories" covers a very broad range.

Good point. One example of many is which group was behind the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"Assisted" suicide is an expedient way out for persona- non-grata inmates whose continued existence is a source of anxiety or embarrassment for the authorities. I have personally witnessed two such cases during my short time working in prisons.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

There is nothing suspect about this conclusion.

Its just completely false.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If these hookers were 18+ then it's the age of consent. Anything less is pedophilia.

Pedophilia is a psychological diagnosis concerning a mental obsession, where actions alone don't prove it. Pedophilia affects something like 1 percent of humanity or less, yet the word is mistakenly used at rate far beyond representation of that small percentage. What you want to say is anything less than 18 is a violation of the age of consent, but even that will depend on the state in which the alleged sex occurred as many American states have an age of consent of 16.

I will further add that legal marriages younger than 16 occur and that STILL is not proof of pedophilia and being legal, is not a violation of the law either.

Please educate yourself and stop using important words wrong.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I will further add that legal marriages younger than 16 occur and that STILL is not proof of pedophilia and being legal, is not a violation of the law either.

I know that in some states the legal age to marry is 16 but that don't make it ethical or right. 16 years old isn't old or wise enough for much of anything of such a magnitude as marriage, or sex. There are a zillion things morally/socially/ethically wrong in American society, especially since some people who think they're the leaders haven't evolved or grown up yet themselves.

It's time for all of America, every state to begin growing up and entering the modern era.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

An earlier photo shows Epstein with a young Donald Trump. What is the relationship with Trump?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Conspiracy peddlers are scum, and their victims dangerous fools.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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