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20,000: U.S. death toll overtakes Italy's as Midwest braces

43 Comments
By KATHLEEN FOODY, AMY FORLITI and GEIR MOULSON

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With the New York area still deep in crisis, fear mounted over the spread of the scourge into the nation’s heartland.

Areas where larger numbers of people heeded the advice of medical experts, practiced physical distancing and used basic hygiene principles are 'flattening the curve'. Those who've ignored the experts and have been influenced by telescamgelists, Internet 'influencers', trolls and flamers saying 'it's just another cold/flu' have put themselves and their communities at even greater risk. But maybe that's what some of those 'influencers' want to happen.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

I still wonder why Americans die from corona virus so easily? Hundreds/thousands of people die one day! I can't believe it. It seems Japanese don't die so easily though there are hundreds of people may be potentially infected all over Japan. Most people get sick or don't feel sick, but not badly sick and some die anyway.

-12 ( +1 / -13 )

To Fox News, Trump and his cronies - You still think it's no worse than the flu?

They should all take responsibility for their crass downplaying of the crisis that continued right up into March.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

kwatt, Gearoid Reidy with Bloomberg posted some charts tracking the early days of the outbreaks in NYC and Tokyo. Note, these are cumulative numbers, total cases, tests and deaths. I hope the TB vaccine is as beneficial as some have said but this is a real cause for concern, especially given how few tests Japan is giving:

https://twitter.com/GearoidReidy/status/1248522483268898816

3 ( +3 / -0 )

 It seems Japanese don't die so easily though there are hundreds of people may be potentially infected all over Japan. 

Could be attributed to different methods of assessing whether a death is due to corona or not.

It seems in the US, anybody, including 90 year olds that die from natural causes get listed as "corona deaths" even the PCR test finds they've been exposed to the virus.

In Japan, they only count "corona deaths" if they can prove without a doubt that the death was specifically caused by corona. In other words, the person would be alive today if they didn't have corona.

In Italy, 99% of corona deaths were in people that had another serious, often terminal illness.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says

Only a comparison of the number of death certificates issued over similar time periods can conclusively prove that Corona is actually causing the deaths, rather than

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

It seems in the US, anybody, including 90 year olds t

Seems? Source, please.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Japan also has a lot of (more) elderly people who have another serious illnesses. If you go to hospitals on ordinary day, you would see so many outpatients there everyday.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

China is claiming only 3,339 deaths. Who believes that?

To Fox News, Trump and his cronies - You still think it's no worse than the flu?

They never said it was no worse than the flu.

They should all take responsibility for their crass downplaying of the crisis that continued right up into March.

"They" would be Cuomo and De Blasio.

-17 ( +4 / -21 )

To Fox News, Trump and his cronies - You still think it's no worse than the flu?

@serranoThey never said it was no worse than the flu.

Given how rambling Trump's diatribes are it could be some have misinterpreted what he's said. That's to be expected because he's so inarticulate, has flip-flopped (eg. 'It's not a pandemic' v 'I said all along it was a pandemic') so many times and outright 'intentionally misinformed'.

Making things worse for the part of the population unable to reason for themselves and instead just rely on Trump's media spokespeople are their flip-flopping and outright 'intentionally misinforming'. And the armies of social media trolls and flamers paid (and of course volunteering) to misinform.

Interpret below from your own perspective:

On March 6, Fox News chief medical contributor Dr. Marc Siegel, a prominent part of the network’s coronavirus coverage, told Sean Hannity that “this virus should be compared to the flu. Because at worst, at worst, worst case scenario it could be the flu.”

https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/fox-news-medical-contributor-blames-millennials-comparing-coronavirus-flu

5 ( +6 / -1 )

ABC News is censoring all comments in favor of Trump and against the shutdown, here:

That's one interpretation. But then the free, for-profit media tend to spin for their markets. Have you ever watched Fox cable 'news or any of Fox's 200 plus TV stations, or any of Sinclair Broadcasting 200 plus TV stations? RT? Breitbart?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

I still wonder why Americans die from corona virus so easily? 

Obesity.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21K1B0

6 ( +7 / -1 )

It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World!

The REAL pandemic is the loss of liberties orchestrated by socially engineering fear in most. Fear of an invisible invader.

No doubt there are sick people, people being placed on ventilators, dying, etc. That happens all the time, which is why we have hospitals and health care (coincidently the 3rd leading cause of death in the US).

www.cbsnews.com/news/medical-errors-now-3rd-leading-cause-of-death-in-u-s-study-suggests/

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Then what is Trump waiting for then? The virus is not going to wait for Trump's new and improved TrumpCare II. The virus is going to continue to kill people while Trump continues to blame Hillary. Proof of Trump's failure. Better stay safe with Japan's government run healthcare. And the real TrumpCare doesn't

You're way out in left field surviving purely off of Trump hate. There's no issue with paying for coronavirus treatment that's leading to high numbers of deaths. The problem is too many deaths and not enough equipment. Every country with high deaths is facing the same issue. If Japan starts experiencing a high rate of deaths, they'll be facing the same crisis. Government healthcare won't save Japan. Stop using this pandemic to hate on Trump. 3 years already. Do you guys ever give up.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Just walk down any street in the USA and notice the obesity. That brings with it high blood pressure, diabetes and respiratory problems, all making any CV infection worse.

Add to that a culture of not wearing masks, talking on the train (if there is one), shaking hands, and an overall lack of preparedness on the part of government to assist hospitals that have seen their budgets cut over the years, and that all adds up to the problem in the USA.

Fox News and the President’s downplaying of things at the start didn’t help either

6 ( +6 / -0 )

DISGUSTING: Police raid church that was gathering via radio!

https://www.toddstarnes.com/faith/watch-police-raid-churchs-drive-in-service-issue-500-tickets-to-entire-congregation/

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Bush:. It seems in the US, anybody, including 90 year olds that die from natural causes get listed as "corona deaths" even the PCR test finds they've been exposed to the virus.

Fake news. They've addressed this specifically.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The spreading of fake news and facts does not help anyone and sometimes just dangerous.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Yeah I’m waiting for the mosque raid for “social distancing”. Even people in their cars getting threatened and fined for going to church on Easter.

people agreed to this for 30 days based on the fear of 2.2 million deaths without it and still 100,000-240,000 with it.

In a population of 40 million people in California people gave you jobs, income and all personal freedoms for less than 600 deaths.

time to reopen and only quarantine high risk people.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

The spreading of fake news and facts does not help anyone and sometimes just dangerous.

Who should be held accountable: the many posters, or the media

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Who's positive for coronavirus and being turned away? Simple question.

Who pays for the 100s of thousands in healthcare bills for CV? It is bankrupting hospitals. Especially non insured and junk policies.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Since the US is 5 times Italy's population, a more accurate way of phrasing the headline would be "US death rate climbs to 1/5 the death rate of Italy." But that wouldn't elicit enough fear, would it? And that's what he media is there for. Not for informing, but to frighten.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

blacklabel: In a population of 40 million people in California people gave you jobs, income and all personal freedoms for less than 600 deaths.

California was fast to enact strict social distancing laws, and as a result they only have had 600 deaths.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/birx-praises-california-washington-for-coronavirus-response-says-ny-nj-lagged

California and Washington acted swiftly to mitigate the coronavirus threat, while New York and New Jersey lagged behind – resulting in sharp differences in the states’ current tallies for confirmed cases and deaths, a key member of President Trump’s Coronavirus Task Force said Tuesday.

“California and Washington reacted very early to this,” Dr. Deborah Birx, the task force response coordinator, told reporters during a news briefing at the White House, noting that both states have avoided spikes in infections despite being early leaders when the virus first hit the U.S. in January.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Since the US is 5 times Italy's population, a more accurate way of phrasing the headline would be "US death rate climbs to 1/5 the death rate of Italy." But that wouldn't elicit enough fear, would it? And that's what he media is there for. Not for informing, but to frighten.

And not only that, don't forget the mayor of Florence was telling citizens to hug a Chinese person to avoid being...wait for it... Racist.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

I still wonder why Americans die from corona virus so easily? Hundreds/thousands of people die one day! I can't believe it.

I guess Spain, Italy have a serious obesity problem as well.

It seems Japanese don't die so easily though there are hundreds of people may be potentially infected all over Japan. Most people get sick or don't feel sick, but not badly sick and some die anyway.

Do more autopsies and screenings and I’m sure your eyes will bulge.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Headline was ok. Proposed alternative is vague and uninformative. Calm down.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

blacklabel: Can’t shut down 40 million for 500.

You simply don't get it. You keep talking about sacrificing the economy for such low numbers but you just don't get the numbers are low because the strict measures put in place.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Its logically, statistically, and scientifically impossible that China’s reported numbers are true and accurate.

Hey hey hey. Truth over facts.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

So out of fear of 500 becoming 600 we keep restricting people’s liberties and keep them unemployed and everything closed until.....when?

7500 people a day die in the USA usually.. More than 12009 died of H1N1. The entire country wasn’t shut down for months.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Obviously people at risk can stay home and everyone else can go back to work. You can choose to stay home if scared or compromised, I can choose to go to work if I’m not. Kids aren’t affected they can’t wait 18 months to 5 years for a tested vaccine so they can go back to school.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

So out of fear of 500 becoming 600 

Are you saying the death toll would be only fractionally higher without strict measures in place? Did I read that right?

That’s not what I read. Could you post a link to your source?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I guess many people here didn't get their chocolate Easter eggs.

In the UK, Italy and other EU countries, Easter Mass is being conducted online. Even the queen posted her first Easter message, online at her social network site using her iPad.

The Pope conducted Easter Mass in a empty Vatican except for the other church people.

Today we can remember the many victims but let's spare a thought for the hundreds of thousands of healthcare workers battling to save the life's of others and sometime having to give their own.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Do more autopsies and screenings and I’m sure your eyes will bulge.

Agreed. Most of bodies are usually not examined if medical doctors diagnosed the body has no symptom of corona virus. If doctor suspects the body/patient may have kinda symptom of the virus, they must test PCR of the body, because they can't return the infected body to family. Infected body must be cremated soon. If doctor lie about it, he may lose doctor-license permanently.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

You simply don't get it. You keep talking about sacrificing the economy for such low numbers but you just don't get the numbers are low because the strict measures put in place.

You don't get it. Even if your assumptions are completely accurate (correlation is not causation), you saved about 1400 lives at best in California. That's one in 40,000 people. In return, California has embraced martial law and poverty. A lot more than 1400 will die from poverty alone.

Meanwhile, in Hong Kong, you could easily find 1400 people willing to die if it meant Hong Kon being freed from China.

Americans should be ashamed.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

the model was already based on these measures being in place. Thats why 2.2 million went down to 100,000-240,000. Yet we are seeing fractions of that number with most states and the USA as a whole already past the "peak". From here on out, its all political, not scientific.

That’s not what I read. Could you post a link to your source?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Of course risk/benefit analyses must be done to determine which course of action will be more beneficial or in this case less disastrous.

Fr example consider two scenarios of no lockdowns and total lockdown for a year, which of the two will result in more deaths and suffering? Not easy to answer because so many factors to take into consideration. Point is without analysis to guide course of action, we will just be gambling with people's lives.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

People in care homes nor prisons don’t go out therefore the infection is being brought in by staff not undergoing testing nor utilising the correct protocols in the midst of a pandemic

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Stay safe everyone, even those of you with whom I vehemently disagree.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

For making statements saying the virus is a hoax to bring down the president, or for lying saying they never said that.

That will never happen, not even a thought.

This is deaths from coronavirus, not suicide. We know that this is because of population density, which is a result of people wanting to live in NYC, unlike conservative places.

Hardly

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The situation in the US is going to get a lot, lot worse. The hospitals and medical system there are simply not prepared for the war. And they have had over 3 months to get ready.

Good luck Americans, you have only just started with Covid-19. Locking the entire nation down until 2021 is the ONLY option.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The Coronavirus is a greater killer than previous ones like Hong Kong Flu 1968, SARS 2003 and Swine Flu 2009/2010.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I suspect that the real number of COVID-19 related deaths in the US is much higher than what the government is reporting. As an example, last night on the news it was reported that there were over 2,000 Covid-19 related deaths at Veterans Administration facilities, but that the federal government has decided not to include those numbers in the daily tally.

Another example: a retired librarian in our town died about a month ago. He was not tested. A few days ago the librarian's wife passed away. Both had symptoms of the coronavirus, but only the wife was tested. She tested positive, so it is likely the husband would have also tested positive, if a test had been available.

I would not be surprised if the total number of COVID-19 deaths is twice as high as what the federal government is reporting. For some reason, Trump seems to think it is to his advantage to play down the severity of this disease.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

They never said it was no worse than the flu.

they said it was like the flu, the science and statistics clearly show it isn't, its worse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAh4uS4f78o

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Thats why 2.2 million went down to 100,000-240,000.

2million dead is worse case scenario, that is relying onherd immunity, takes 60% of the population 200 million

1% mortality rate gets you that 2million dead. thankfully places like CA had acted quickly now their infection rate is slowly being contained, NY while slow is certainly doing better that than leaving the economy open. Meanwhile you've got a president that won't declare a national lockdown, didnt even start mass testing until mid March

2 ( +3 / -1 )

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