Hostages released from Wisconsin high school; gunman shoots himself

It could happen in any country, but would be a lot harder in countries that don't allow the locals to get their hands on guns.

and whats the NRA's answer to this? People please buy more guns, please protect yourselves.

American_bengoshi: Exactly! The kid probably stole dad's easily obtained hand guns or uzi and is holding the class hostage. A knife? I doubt people would bother and wait, depending on the size of the kid. Charlton Heston should be proud.

Charlton Heston should be proud.

He's dead. Anyway, better control of guns would be a good direction for the US. However, even with such control, that does not mean this kind of thing would not happen. It certainly can and has happened in countries with gun control laws.

thetruthhurts: " It certainly can and has happened in countries with gun control laws."

How many times a year? It happens at least 10,000 times in the US/year according to gun related deaths (more than the Vietnam war!). Does that happen in countries with gun-control laws?

smithinjapan,

Be careful, you will lose this argument because of your refusal to read what the article is about and what I have written. Hostage taking happens in many countries around the world. Your unrelated information does not change this. BTW, it was just announced that all the hostages have been released in this Wisconsin case.

Hostage taking happens in many countries around the world.

Smithinjapan would be probably be shocked to learn that the kidnapping capital of N America is now Phoenix. But again, we can't talk about that or which specific group within US society (and in almost all cases illegally in the country) is doing the kidnapping...

If the 23 students and teacher had guns this could have easily been prevented.

medievaltimes.

Maybe been prevented or caused a blood-bath. How many of those students and teacher would actually be trained properly in using a gun in such a situation?

Too many people still live with the illusion that drawing a gun will end a confrontation and scare the other person away.

Tim: "Then we are left with one minority in America committing close to 90 percent of the gun crime in places like New York..."

I know -- a bunch of whities killing people left and right. Or wait.... are you trying to suggest all killings are by Muslims? :) You make me laugh, bro... seriously.

trulymadlyfukai: "If you took Hispanics and black people out of the gun crime figures, America would be safer than any European country."

Seriously, you're as bad as TimRussert in terms of racism. Was this kid black? Hispanic? What does it matter if he was? It's not an issue of race, it's an issue of malcontent, which anyone, anywhere, suffers. It's how you deal with said malcontent that matters, and since this boy had open access to guns, that's a problem.

I'm glad they got out of there. That teacher deserves a raise. The murder rate in the U.S. by hand guns alone each year looks like the fatalities of a civil war. America experiences a civil war of violence every year and nobody bats an eye. And so many of these are happening now in schools and churches and work places. Will letting everyone have a gun reduce gun violence? Sure, just like giving everybody a car will reduce traffic accidents. Cops who train to use handguns miss their targets well over half the time they shoot in real life. The average person on the street is a better shot just like he's a better driver, only in his dreams.

If you think freedom to own guns will make society safe, I invite you to live in Somalia. You'll love it. It's NRA heaven. The government stays off people's backs there. No authority interferes with your right to own guns. They only take your guns out of your cold dead hands, just as the NRA requests.

"But again, we can't talk about that or which specific group within US society"

Let me guess....they're democrats?

Zenny11: "Maybe been prevented or caused a blood-bath. How many of those students and teacher would actually be trained properly in using a gun in such a situation?"

I'm quite sure medievaltimes was being sarcastic.

"Smithinjapan would be probably be shocked to learn that the kidnapping capital of N America is now Phoenix."

Phoenix. Guns a plenty. Let's start the argument all over again. 3 2 1 GO!

"If the 23 students and teacher had guns this could have easily been prevented."

I am sure it would prevent a lot of things.

"Charlton Heston should be proud."

Michael Moore should be prouder of course. I get the sarcasm, but MMoore spent at least a year of this life trying to get the word out about two decades ago. Every one of his movies has been right on, but nobody listens. Few people care, it seems.

Weird question: why do wannabe terrorists bother with exotic bombs and schemes? In the US, one guy with a couple of automatic weapons in a McDonald's could get a better body count than Mr. Times Square, Mr. Oregon, and Mr. Nigeria put together. In fact, it has been done (San Ysidro, 1984). I mean, heaven forbid and all that, but it is only a matter of time, right? Why isn't gun control being considered in the same light as air travel control? It seems that it is one area of Merican life that terrorists will be able to exploit over and over again.

"“They just spent a whole bundle of money on classroom doors to make them secure, but they don’t have metal detectors at the school,” said councilman Bradley Behrendt."

Oh. I see.

American_bengoshi: Exactly! The kid probably stole dad's easily obtained hand guns or uzi and is holding the class hostage. A knife? I doubt people would bother and wait, depending on the size of the kid. Charlton Heston should be proud.

I disagree you would be surprised at how intimidated people can be by someone just carrying a base ball bat.

America experiences a civil war of violence every year and nobody bats an eye.

That is because on a per capita basis it is incredibly low. There are 35k deaths caused by firearms, half of them are suicides, an additional to 2-3 k are killed by police officers you basically have around 10k-15k killed in anger, you then take that number and divide it by 64 million gun owners or if you want to do it on a per gun basis then you would divide it by 300 million.

If we take the 35k people killed by firearms and divide it by 64 million you will get this: 0.000546875

That number is not even a tenth of a tenth of one percent. That is how low the fatality rate is per gun owner. So with such a low fatality rate would you even bother? I mean the safety rate among gun owners is 99.999%

Nearly 20 times more people die from heart attacks in the US.

Phoenix. Guns a plenty. Let's start the argument all over again. 3 2 1 GO!

This is the kind of willful blindness that explains why "liberal" candidates got so thoroughly shellacked last month. Anyone who looks at the kidnapping in Phoenix and publicly airs the belief that it can all be explained by the completely absurd rationale that says, "Uh, it's because people there have guns!" is instantly seen as an unhinged shill for the suicidal brand of "multiculturalism" that the Democrat Party is locked in embrace with, the kind of "logic" that has the TSA's unionized goons "patting down" 3 y.o. girls in our airports. I have to thank you, Klein2. You make a fine example.

America experiences a civil war of violence every year and nobody bats an eye.

No we don't. Check the data. It is largely (on a magnitude of over 90 percent) one group in society killing their own kind. But no one wants to talk about that...

I mean the safety rate among gun owners is 99.999%

Yes, I am sure the two dozen people who did not die feel quite safe, always did and always will. Where is Captain Hindsight when you need him?

Well, since they did not die, they don't matter. National panic is but a trivial concern. And nevermind all the robberies and rapes etc. facilitated by guns. And nevermind the injuries, even the ones that resulted in permanent brain damage and physical disabilities because you don't count if you don't die.

Another failure of logic is that you are going per year. This is not a video game where you hit reset and get three fresh lives! Multiply by life expectancy and you will get something more realistic. I multiplied your number by 72 and got almost .04. And its by far not the only hole in your reasoning.

What national panic?

Well the good news is that less than a fifth of those crimes you listed involve a firearm in the US

Ok fine lets add the injuries, its around 100k are injured by firearms, that means less than 150k people are killed or injured by firearms in the US each year. You still have a 99% safety rate. The point I'm making is that guns are not as big of a threat as you are making them out to be. More people are killed by cars in the US each year than by guns, even though there are more guns then cars in the US. Of course the counter argument to that is that people need cars, you don't need guns, my counter to that is that people don't need private car ownership, just have the government provide the transportation which will result in less cars on the road which will result in less traffic accidents and deaths.

Actually its a failure of logic to not go by per year, because if you wish to measure how much a threat something is to a society or a population you go by a per year basis, and you also use those per year basis to determine whether or not you are making progress on that threat.

Good examples of this would be diseases, how many times have you read reports that talk about how many people this disease or that disease killed per year and then measure whether or not they are making progress by seeing if the previous year killed more people or less than the current year? Pretty much all the time.

Another good example is the FBI and their crime statistics:

How is that number 0.04 more realistic?

The point of I'm making is that people are way over exaggerating the threat that firearms pose to the American society, considering the fact that over 500k people are killed each year by heart disease in the US.

What is more of a threat now? Unhealthy foods and no exercise lifestyle or firearms, well if you go by statistics unhealthy food with no exercise is.