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5 dead, 40 injured in attack at British Parliament

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By JILL LAWLESS, PAISLEY DODDS and DANICA KIRKA

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To All Our British Brothers and Sisters: Are you okay over there? We're thinking of you and you are in our prayers. Always. Love-- the Yanks

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Barbaric filth.

11 ( +15 / -4 )

Barbaric filth.

Barbaric filth murdering children and tourists in broad daylight. Barbaric white supremacist filth using year-old quotes for political capital against London mayor as people lay dying.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/22/donald-trump-jr-tweet-london-mayor-sadiq-khan

7 ( +16 / -9 )

Deepest condolences to the brave police officer, all the deceased and their families.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Sympathy to our brothers and sisters across the Atlantic.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

London has often been the target of terrorist attacks, from IRA campaigns in the 1970s and 80s

That's a cheap shot. And it's disgusting to lump the ira together with what's happening nowadays. What a way to manipulate the mind of the uneducated reader.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

Please move along. Everything is ok. Nothing to see here. As long as the government continues to force this mantra down people's throats while completely ignoring the cause of these atrocities, expect more of the same.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Jo Cox murderer,Thomas Mair, is a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. Mair, days before Jo Cox tragic death, sort treatment for a verity of ongoing mental health problems up to the night the fatal attack.

To insinuate that Jo Cox murder is connected to UK independence is cynically calculated political mischief making, insulting Jo Cox memory. Jo Cox, widower, discounted any relevance or connection between the two.

Born in London Borough of Bromley, I have lived, was educated and worked in London, I still have a home less than fifteen tube minutes from where this attack took place.

Fred Wallace, the Security Services, Police and Londoners know the hate preachers and the Mosques they infest. The UK Government, and people will never bow down to terrorist attacks, threats or intimation. London will respond to this attack in a manner befitting a parliamentary led democracy, It will not lash out, but calmly and firmly find and punish the perpetrators.

Now Fred, after clearly you have ruling out a band-aid, what is your diagnose for treating London's so called open wound?.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

She said Londoners and visitors “will all move forward together, never giving in to terror and never allowing the voices of hate and evil to drive us apart.”

That is the best way to combat terrorism. To show them that their objective of hate and evil to drive people apart isn't working.

Barbaric filth murdering children and tourists in broad daylight. Barbaric white supremacist filth using year-old quotes for political capital against London mayor as people lay dying.

Excellent quote Alfie!

Last year, a far-right supporter shot and killed British lawmaker Jo Cox, who had campaigned for the UK to remain in the European Union.

Terrorism is not only committed by muslims. What happened to Jo Cox was also terrorism and was committed by a rightist. As for closing mosques, they actually are where most intelligence is gathered on potential terrorists. That's how you catch those right wing nuts- by having law-abiding muslims turn the bad ones in. You start closing mosques down, then where do you get the intelligence from?

London has often been the target of terrorist attacks, from IRA campaigns in the 1970s and 80s That's a cheap shot. And it's disgusting to lump the ira together with what's happening nowadays.

Really? Why is it a cheap shot? The IRA used terrorism to achieve a political aim or objective. They killed ALOT of people. How are these people, whomever they are, any different? Try telling that to people who had loved ones killed by the IRA. I don't know how old you are, but I am old enough to remember the 80's and how IRA terrorism was common news all around the world. You couldn't have a garbage can in the tube due to fears that a bomb might be planted there. I see them as the same. Terrorism is terrorism, and it doesn't make a difference whether the perpetrator is a immigrant or homegrown, a muslim or a christian, white or brown, whatever. The way to combat terrorism is first show them that they will not reap the fruits of their terror- ie hatred will not spread among communities due to acts of violence. Second is to work more closely with different communities and groups to obtain better intelligence to help thwart these attacks. But knee-jerk reactions are the worst thing we can do, because it shows the terrorists, whomever they may be, that their tactics are working. We should never allow them that satisfaction.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

the Security Services, Police and Londoners know the hate preachers and the Mosques they infest.

And yet continue to do nothing about them. Disgusting!!

what is your diagnose for treating London's so called open wound?.

I made it clear in my statement that it's already infested ala that ship has already sailed. Because of the culture of appeasement, horrific acts such as these are not going to stop any time soon!!

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

Thank goodness he didn't have an assault rifle, equipped with a banana clip.

It is impossible to prevent all crazy people from carrying out their fantasies of causing mayhem. Best wishes to those suffering.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Aly Rustom, I have Reuters professional live news feeds on a monitor. All I have stated has been reported on news wires to both the Guardian, BBC and Telegraph. Debating this presently might not be respectful to the occasion.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I have Reuters professional live news feeds on a monitor. All I have stated has been reported on news wires to both the Guardian, BBC and Telegraph. Debating this presently might not be respectful to the occasion.

so just to be clear-the attacks have been confirmed to have been carried out by muslim extremists?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The perpetrator has been described as an 'Islamic terrorist' . Now let's be absolutely clear, that does not inply that all Muslims are somehow guilty by association.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

This is why Trump won, and I fear it is too late for Europe. RIP, and good luck

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

so just to be clear-the attacks have been confirmed to have been carried out by muslim extremists?

I would probably assume with a 99.9% certainty that they were.

The perpetrator has been described as an 'Islamic terrorist' . Now let's be absolutely clear, that does not inply that all Muslims are somehow guilty by association.

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT! That's not what we are talking about and that's not the issue! The central issue is Islamic terrorism the problem is the left usually conflates the two.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

Blitz spirit. won't give into terror. life goes on. business as usual. And yet all of these attacks make life a little more difficult and lead to a little more intolerance and result in a further erosion of accepted freedoms..... And they can never be entirely prevented. Are we really winning the "war on terror"??

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I'm a Londoner, currently in London. Much of the reporting, as well as comments on social media, highlight several things; mostly that people are quite happy to use a tragic attack like this to push their often bigoted agendas that is married to a total ignorance of London, Londoners and the UK in general. Feel free to give your opinion, but stop trying to fit your world view into mine, and those of other Londoners. You know not of what you speak.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

At this very moment I couldn't care less what the vile Trump or his excuse of a human son thinks or tweets.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

itsonlyrocknrollMar. 23, 2017 - 09:33AM JST

The perpetrator has been described as an 'Islamic terrorist' . Now let's be absolutely clear, that does not inply that all Muslims are somehow guilty by association.

By whom? At the time of writing the UK authorities have not described the attacker this way, in fact they have given zero information on the attacker. It's just speculation based on bigotry.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I made it clear in my statement that it's already infested ala that ship has already sailed. Because of the culture of appeasement, horrific acts such as these are not going to stop any time soon!!

You and bass haven't made it very clear. What is this "culture of appeasement" exactly, and what are some concrete things we can do?

10 ( +11 / -1 )

The perpetrator has been described as an 'Islamic terrorist' .

Ok. I see. Thanks. I didn't know that. I was going by the above article.

Now let's be absolutely clear, that does not inply that all Muslims are somehow guilty by association.

Of course not. And good on you for pointing that out.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

"By whom? At the time of writing the UK authorities have not described the attacker this way, in fact they have given zero information on the attacker. It's just speculation based on bigotry."

True. It's all just speculation at the moment.

I don't know who did it but I wouldn't bet against a religious crackpot. Would you?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@itsonlyrockandroll - Now let's be absolutely clear, that does not imply that all Muslims are somehow guilty by association.

Yes, you are right, but many do harbor the extremists and few will give information about extremists, which does make them guilty by association. Then, you can add the hate speech and anti-western rants given in prayer that all muslims attend, again making them guilty by association. Then, there is their desire to introduce Sharai law to allow them to beat woman and marry 12 year old girls in their host countries. Unfortunately, all muslims are tarred with the same brush making them guilty by association and, their ancient beliefs have no place in modern western society. Many have come to their host country as refugees escaping the death and turmoil of the country they escaped. However, they bring the same beliefs with them that destroyed their own countries and are forcing it onto their new host country causing the same unrest and cultural oppression they escaped. Guilt by association is very true!

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

By whom? At the time of writing the UK authorities have not described the attacker this way, in fact they have given zero information on the attacker. It's just speculation based on bigotry."

Excellent point. Agree with you notagain. Since you are in london, please continue to keep us informed about what's going on. Thank you, and my prayers to everyone there.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I think because of the West's advancements in industry and science, and democracy and human rights, we in the West have taken these things for granted, as being universals, when in fact they're not. They're a part of our culture, and instead of trying to push these things on to other peoples, we need to safeguard them and cherish them as aspects of our culture. Theresa May's response I found to be very moving. We in the West need to come together and stop the Islamic infiltration of our societies and cultures. There are peoples in this world who have world views and cultures utterly opposed and incompatible to those of Western peoples. These people need to be banned. Suggesting that the responsibility to assimilate these people into our societies is tantamount to thrusting our world views and cultures onto them, which is wrong. The onus is on them to assimilate. And we can all see, because of fundamental differences, that's impossible.

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT! That's not what we are talking about and that's not the issue! The central issue is Islamic terrorism the problem is the left usually conflates the two.

Can we drop the whole left versus right talk for just for a day? Jeeze, you can tackle every issue with such a simplistic binary approach.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Londoners came through years of IRA terror, and now over a decade of islamic-terror, in a dignified manner - and actions by scum like this individual will not break them. I know the area well, having worked nearby for two years, and may life get back to normal very soon.

This is why Trump won, and I fear it is too late for Europe

EVERY sane person would feel far more in danger in the U.S than pretty well everywhere in Europe. Statistics back this up. There are mass kilings in the US pretty much every week. Who would feel safe living there, or even visiting? Grubs like Trump Jr. - if they had a shred of honesty - would admit this.

Rest in Peace to the poor innocent victims.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

JimizoMar. 23, 2017 - 10:14AM JST

True. It's all just speculation at the moment. I don't know who did it but I wouldn't bet against a religious crackpot. Would you

I don't want to speculate. I don't want to feed the likes of Trump Jr for his twitter feed. When the facts are made public then I'm quite happy to comment on the attacker.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Alfie Noakes, Barbaric white supremacist filth using year-old quotes for political capital against London mayor as people lay dying.

Really, now how is Trump a Barbaric white supremacist, which such acts has he committed? And what kind of political capital is he going to achieve against a Mayor of a City in another Country? That mayor may though qualify in that category, going by your logic every such terrorism act will also have a Trump factor, as indirectly or directly you will loop him in.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

'Police Authorities' are briefing of a 'Islamist terrorist' attack. The spokesman has also indicated knowing who the 'Islamist' is.

Notagain, this terrorist attack, lets not be afraid or shirk away from responsibility to call out the act, this is also an attack on all Muslims, not confined to any single group,race, or religion. The attacker was not concerned who he mowed down.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

You and bass haven't made it very clear. What is this "culture of appeasement" exactly, and what are some concrete things we can do?

Travel ban that's the first step, get rid of all the ghettos where radical Islam thrive, make it clear that rooting out radical Islam is not a war on Islam itself, take out all leadership that reside within these communities, surveil mosques.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Many have come to their host country as refugees escaping the death and turmoil of the country they escaped. However, they bring the same beliefs with them that destroyed their own countries and are forcing it onto their new host country causing the same unrest and cultural oppression they escaped. Guilt by association is very true!

Some have but many others haven't, disillusioned. I think foreign media, especially mainstream Anglo one, are often too quick to write the word "islam" or 'Muslim" but fail to provide the always essential background information. For example, many French so called 'Muslim' terrorists or would be terrorists are/were Christian-born French who recently converted. How about (I think you're an aussie) oz very own David Hicks, didn't come by boat did he?

The London attacker could well be from Syria or Pakistan but he could also be an England-born bloke with Jamaican/Nigerian/Essex etc ancestry. I have no doubt Islam and the way it's interpreted by some, is part of the problem but I also believe that some nuttas/weak/ostracized etc ppl of this world 'use' it the same way they were using anarchy/extreme left-wing ideology in the 70s/80s (RAF, Action directe, Red Brigades etc) at least in Europe.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

"You and bass haven't made it very clear. What is this "culture of appeasement" exactly, and what are some concrete things we can do?"

It's just chest-thumping along the lines of Trump's travel ban.

Ask them about getting tough with the likes of Saudi Arabia and the "culture of appeasement" surrounding it, and you'll find the same chest-thumpers quickly descending into utter babble.

They like talking tough. Throw guns into the conversation and they verge on delirious.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Incredibly tragic. I hate attacks like these as you don't even need a gun to carry it out, just a knife, a car, and pure hatred so cannot really be stopped. In this day and age we need to be vigilant

3 ( +3 / -0 )

To even think of the Muslims I have met, both in London, mostly at University and here is Japan, and on recent trips to Nagoya in any way condoning or even sympathizing with these terrorist attacks, is one of the primary political aims of these terrorists. To fan the flames of bigotry.

These terrorists, in the name of Islam, want to fan the flames of hatred to create a violent backlash against Muslim communities worldwide.

Disillusioned, I don't have any answers to deal with groups who hide these terrorists, some have suggested internment of preachers hate, but where would this stop?

Parliament will no doubt be debating this political conundrum. Most importantly this whole issue must be openly debated. Including where multiculturalism has failed and letting communities develop within communities practicing Sharia law.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Thinking back to the last time I was there, the only lucky thing I can think of is that the other side of the bridge to the side that was attacked was usually busier, as there is the tube station exit and more people walking across that side to the London Eye.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

itsonlyrocknroll, goldorak, notagain

all excellent posts!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

"That's how you catch those right wing nuts- by having law-abiding muslims turn the bad ones in."

This is a critical problem in the Muslim community in the UK. Poll results on the reluctance to turn in people involved in terror were absolutely horrifying.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

This is why Trump won, and I fear it is too late for Europe. RIP, and good luck

Oh dear. I'm a Londoner and the only connection between Trump and this kind of terrorism is that parasitic politicians such as Trump and Farage use these acts as fodder for their own politicial success. Meanwhile authorising the bombing of civilians in middle eastern countries. One of the big reasons why Europe is experiencing this terrorism is because of the bombing of muslim civilians by the west. Do you seriously think Trump and Farage will improve terrorism?

The British have amazingly suffered few fundamentalist terrorist acts considering that they are a prime target in Europe and they are a multi-cultural society. The British intelligence services are spot on, because of their experience dealing with Irish terrorism in the seventies and eighties and their history since WWII and the Cold War. I myself have been close enough to two IRA bombings in London, once only 1,000 metres away.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

The violent teachings of Islam are the motivating force behind all of these attacks. The Quran is quite clear, and claims for itself to clarify everything. It's quite depressing when you realise that the real extremists are the apologists who claim that Islam is a religion of peace, but insist that you won't be able to properly interpret the Quran unless you are an expert on 7th century Arabian history and speak classical Arabic. Until we excise these beliefs and teachings from our communities, we are going to keep having these attacks. The plainly violent verses of the Quran are out there and we can't but the genie back in the bottle. They will keep enticing the perpetrators of these attacks. Thankfully most Muslims still have the basic human decency to ignore many of Islams teachings, but we should not be in denial about what Islam actually teaches.

We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (Quran 3:151)

Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you (Quran 2:216)

Not equal are those believers remaining [at home] - other than the disabled - and the mujahideen, [who strive and fight] in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. (Quran 4:95)

And We have sent down to you the Book as clarification for all things (Quran 16:89)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The central issue is Islamic terrorism the problem is the left usually conflates the two.

Wow! How confused can a veteran journalist, ME expert and political analyst get?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I have been wondering why everyone appears to be so anti-Muslim. Is it because if you say anything to upset them, then they can issue a 'call to arms' and have you done away with ? [ Such as I am led to believe by the Media over the years ] or is there another reason ?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

It is utterly ridiculous that most British police are still unarmed in this day and age.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

”One of the big reasons why Europe is experiencing this terrorism is because of the bombing of muslim civilians by the west.”

Most of the West's airstrikes are against ISIS, and the rest target other combatants, so ISIS doesnt wipe out another Yazidi village and enslave the girls. Or against the militants in Afghanistan who want to blow up schools where girls can get an education.

Russia and Saudi Arabia are killing way, way more Muslim civilians. Your "rationale" is totally lame.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

”One of the big reasons why Europe is experiencing this terrorism is because of the bombing of muslim civilians by the west.”

The greatest victims--and perpetrators--of violence by Muslims are Muslims themselves.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Most of the West's airstrikes are against ISIS, and the rest target other combatants, so ISIS doesnt wipe out another Yazidi village and enslave the girls. Or against the militants in Afghanistan who want to blow up schools where girls can get an education.

Russia and Saudi Arabia are killing way, way more Muslim civilians. Your "rationale" is totally lame.

The greatest victims--and perpetrators--of violence by Muslims are Muslims themselves.

Ever listened to a supporter/ member of fundamentalist terrorism to hear what their fight is against? Ever read what a member of Hamas says is their reasoning behind terrorism against Israelis? Excuse the pun here, but you need to get your heads out of the sand. Of course ISIS and other terrorists have caused the worst atrocities against muslims, but are you saying that the west (includes Russia by the way) are innocent of inflaming the situation?

One of the most intelligent and measured documentaries I have seen on the subject is about Moazzam Begg who was imprisoned for many years at Guantanamo and released without charge. And he said that many fellow inmates at Guantanamo who were interrogated and tortured and also released without charge after many years of abuse, ended up joining ISIS when they had previously had not been members. You should watch that documentary film - it may educate you.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

”One of the big reasons why Europe is experiencing this terrorism is because of the bombing of muslim civilians by the west.”

Most of the West's airstrikes are against ISIS, and the rest target other combatants, so ISIS doesnt wipe out another Yazidi village and enslave the girls. Or against the militants in Afghanistan who want to blow up schools where girls can get an education.Russia and Saudi Arabia are killing way, way more Muslim civilians. Your "rationale" is totally lame.

Totally agree Jefflee. Attacks on euro soil are logistically easier to organise than say Russia, Japan, USA etc. Imo isis M.O has become pragmatic and opportunistic rather than ideological. Their current enemies are/should be Russia, Israel and a few others rather than say France or Germany who have had close ties with middle-east, north African/Muslim nations for decades if not centuries and were, for example, the only western powers to always support the Palestinian cause against Israel.

Problem is they a/ are also neighbours, b/have many of their citizens who are more 'radicalizable' than in other western nations. That makes them far easier targets than far away (geographically or culturally) nations.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The police said they know who the attacker was but have not revealed his identity.

The constant monitoring and intelligence gathering, the constant high levels of training of the police and security forces and the tight control of guns can't prevent these types of terror attacks. Over the previous period they did prevent about 13 attacks but won't release details. The British security forces are one of the best.

These kind of simple terror attacks have happened recently in other European cities too.

Sad day for those who have lost loved ones.

The United States on Wednesday urged coalition partners to step up efforts to defeat Islamic State militants.

Are they the same coalition partners Trump has been insulting?

According to the United Kingdom Census 2011 the UK Muslim population was 2,706,066 which is 4.5% of the total population. The majority of the Muslims, 2,660,116 live in England and are 5.02% of that population. According to the British media the Muslim population in 2016 was more than 3 million with more than 50% born outside of the UK.

During the 1970's there were 20 IRA terrorist attacks. In the 1980's 12 attacks, 7 by the IRA. First Islam attacks, three during the period.

In the 1990's there was an increase with 29 terror attacks. 23 of those from the IRA. I lived in London 1970-1993 and living with the IRA bombs was fearful.

In the 2000's 11 terror attacks. 7 of those again by the IRA. The worse was the 2005 central London bombing by four Islamist extremist suicide bombers.

Since 2010 there have been 5 attacks including yesterdays.

The British Home Office figures in 2016 show there are 125 Islamic prison inmates convicted of terror related offenses with another 27 on remand or awaiting trial. This is 50 more than five years ago.

Blaming the whole Muslim population for these terrorists would be wrong and so would blaming the whole of the UK Irish population for those IRA attacks. Living in London in the 1970-1990's and being Irish was also very difficult and innocent people were given long prison sentences for bombing they didn't do.

Since 1970, there have been 77 terror attacks, 57 of those by the IRA. Only 8 by Muslim extremists with the worse, 1988 Lockerbie PAN AM bombing, and the central London bombing in 2005.

In 2015 in the UK there was a 326% increase in the number of hate attacks against Muslims.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

*TigersTokyoDome

Oh dear. I'm a Londoner and the only connection between Trump and this kind of terrorism is that parasitic politicians such as Trump and Farage use these acts as fodder for their own political success. Meanwhile authorizing the bombing of civilians in middle eastern countries*

Really, so the parasitic politicians like Hillary,Obama, Cameron and the likes who are directly or indirectly responsible for the creation of ISIS and basically authorizing the mindbogling killings of civilians are not responsible, and Trump who is trying to eliminate ISIS and stop all the killings is somehow responsible, talk about subterfuge nay Hegelian Dialectic.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

^ Er, you forgot to mention the Bushes .

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What is chilling about these attacks is that they usually end in certain death yet that seems to be the point-does that suggest fanaticism or what?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

We beat darkness with light. We drown hate in love. We do NOT label an entire people as anything but human. Individuals? That tiny fraction? Yes, we label them as what they are, but not an entire faith, people, nation or other. Now, time for a cup of tea.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Deaths from terrorism vs deaths from gun violence. In America, since the beginning of 2017 there have been 12,816 incidents of gun related violence with 3,266 deaths. 126 children 0-11 killed. 67 killed from mass shootings. 59 police officers killed.

The total number of American deaths from terrorism from 2001-2014 is 3,412. For the same period, the number of deaths from firearms is 440,095.

There have been more mass shootings in the U.S. than any country in the world. From 1966 to 2012 one-third of the world's mass shootings happened in the U.S.

mass shooting tracker, https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

How does a travel ban stop death from firearms and mass shootings?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

London survived relentless bombing in WW2, survived the V weapons, survived the IRA terror attacks and will continue to go on as before after this terror attack. British people are pretty resilient.

Like the MP who attempted to save the fatally wounded policeman yesterday, everyday heroes.

I still remember the Glasgow Aiport attack... partly foiled by baggage handler John Smeaton ('Smeato' as he became known) who took umbridge at a policeman being attacked by one of the would-be bombers and became the hero of the day.

Days like this I'm upset for those who have died or were injured yesterday... but I'm also proud of the way the lid was quickly put on it without mass hysteria.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

”One of the big reasons why Europe is experiencing this terrorism is because of the bombing of muslim civilians by the west.”

Most of the West's airstrikes are against ISIS

And nothing else? Like the Iraq War, prosecuted on a falsehood in revenge for 9/11, which killed >170,000 civilians?

The wounds are still raw. By not acknowledging the injustice, the pain, and the loss, by ignoring people's humanity and denying them closure on the unimaginable horrors visited on them in our name, using our taxes we're simply recruiting more jihadis.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Religion and Politics are Historically the two biggest causes of all troubles within the World. Combine the two together and throw in Extremism, and you suddenly have a Cocktail for Disaster.

Sensible Countries separate the two, having learnt from experience - though there are some which haven't yet, and even worse, some promote Terrorism within other Countries in order to Support their own Agendas.

Political Correctness should be dropped, and a more realistic approach to dealing with the matter put forward, as there is, make no mistake, no way of reasoning with the types of people who we see committing these barbaric acts against innocents.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Since 1970, there have been 77 terror attacks, 57 of those by the IRA. Only 8 by Muslim extremists with the worse, 1988 Lockerbie PAN AM bombing, and the central London bombing in 2005.

I'm counting 14 attacks by Muslim extremists since 1970, Zichi. On Wiki. And at least as many failed attempts.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

NI related Terrorism is in the main, a Domestic issue localized to the UK. Muslim extremism, however, is a seemingly well organized, Global issue.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich

Peter Ustinov

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

London policeman who was stabbed have no gun. How on earth Policeman who was guarding for public safety has not carried weapon? UK police may prefer unarmed combat.

Police without gun is same as old tiger without tooth. UK police force need to wake up in the real world.

A bad guy with knife deserved a bullet from a good policeman with gun.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Would you approach a Policeman wielding a gun, in order to ask for directions, or looking to take a Selfie with ?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

London policeman who was stabbed have no gun. How on earth Policeman who was guarding for public safety has not carried weapon?

They've always been that way. Guns are only necessary for killing people. UK police don't make a habit of that. They carry billy clubs.

Remember, they aren't policing the USA, where there are more guns than people.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

For some years there are thousands of highly armed police on the British streets and especially near to and around important sites like the parliament. Just look at the media photos of the event. On the spot were a team of SAS who immediately removed the PM from the parliament in a well rehearsed way.

I agree that it was strange that the first policeman met into the parliament was an unarmed policemen, especially since he was an ex-soldier. They need to rethink that position.

In America more people have been killed by firearm crime than terrorism or put another way the victims of terrorism are less than 10% of the numbers from gun crimes.

The fact that it remains difficult in the UK to obtain firearms meant yesterday the attacker used a knife. What if it had been an automatic machine gun. The attacker is British born and was known to the security forces but not considered a risk. That too needs further consideration.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

What if it had been an automatic machine gun.

We already know what would have happened based off of the IRA attacks of the past, the answer is that whatever changes there would have been in terms of casualties would not have resulted in a practical change or difference in the response by the British government. The intent is what matters, not the casualty count.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The intent is what matters, not the casualty count.

So an incident where someone intends to kill dozens, but screws up and kills none would be a worse incident than one where a terrorist only intends to kill a few, but 'gets lucky' and kills dozens?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Lets not loose track of the fact, that a lone "Terrorist" seriously injured 40 people, and killed 4 others. This 'lone-wolf' attack profile is the new Terrorism - so how do we deal with it ? It can happen anywhere, not just in the UK, but anywhere Globally - US, Japan, China... its a common threat.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@CrazyJoe

Always. Love-- the Yanks

Thanks and appreciated. I hear one of the victims was an American tourist. I feel for his family. Love to you guys too.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Tony AldermanMar. 23, 2017 - 12:21PM JST

It is utterly ridiculous that most British police are still unarmed in this day and age

Neither the British public nor the police services want the police to be armed.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"Terrorism is the war of the poor,"

Osama bin laden wasn't poor. In fact, he came from one of the wealthiest most privileged backgrounds imaginable. Many, if not most, Muslim jihadi leaders are from wealthy or middle class backgrounds. The London attacker was apparently an English teacher.

Get a new narrative, once that matches reality.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

So an incident where someone intends to kill dozens, but screws up and kills none would be a worse incident than one where a terrorist only intends to kill a few, but 'gets lucky' and kills dozens?

Neither one is worse than the other because the intent is the same and that is a mass casualty attack. Let me expand my view on this, someone who attempts murder is just as bad as someone who successfully commits murder, I don't believe that just because someone fails to kill someone when there intent was to kill should get a lesser response/judgement/sentence because of incompetence or because victims got lucky. Same for someone who attempts but fails to successfully rape a person is no better than someone who is able to successfully carry out rape.

Furthermore when you are dealing with populations that range in the tens of millions and the differences in casualty counts that are single digits to maybe a few dozen then you are not going to come anywhere close to causing society to collapse hence there is no practical benefit in saying "Thank god this person only killed in the single digits vs killing in the dozens" because quite frankly your/government response in terms physical force against the attacker is not going to change based off of the casualty count the person is inflicting. You are going to bring armed police in the dozens if not hundreds to bring that person down.

I mean are you seriously going to say "well because we have rampages of just 5 people instead of 10 people dead means I'm still going to go to the mall, but if it had been 10 people well that is just too much I will stop going to the mall if that was to occur, but not at 5 people."

1 ( +1 / -0 )

This is a critical problem in the Muslim community in the UK. Poll results on the reluctance to turn in people involved in terror were absolutely horrifying.

But that's how you catch them anyway. What would you prefer? more erosion of our civil liberties? Trump style vetting? Is that your answer?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"But that's how you catch them anyway. What would you prefer? more erosion of our civil liberties? Trump style vetting? Is that your answer?"

Clearly not. To take one example, the fanatics who blew up the London Underground were British born. There have been plenty of jihadi plots uncovered by our security services involving UK citizens. Plenty of hate preachers are UK born and supplemented with talent from abroad.

We seem to have created a fertile ground for butchering fanatics in our own country. Vetting isn't going to stop that. If anything, it'll just make these people more excited.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Clearly not. To take one example, the fanatics who blew up the London Underground were British born. There have been plenty of jihadi plots uncovered by our security services involving UK citizens. Plenty of hate preachers are UK born and supplemented with talent from abroad. We seem to have created a fertile ground for butchering fanatics in our own country. Vetting isn't going to stop that. If anything, it'll just make these people more excited.

Agreed. There will always be those who hate. But what we can never do is do the same. We have to reach out to muslims and show them that it isn't an us vs them scenario. We have to include the moderates in our society and not insult and humiliate them by calling their religion backwards or stupid. I've lived in MANY countries in the Mideast and have found the people there by and large to be cultured, learned, and pious. Islam, when observed properly, is indeed a great religion. There are those who will distort it as have others who have distorted all other religions. What we, in my opinion, have to do is to reach out and work with those who are willing to assimilate and work with them on curbing terrorism.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Less than 0.005% of the UK 3 million Muslim population are in prison for terrorist related offenses which are about 125 prison inmates and further 50 or so waiting trial or on remand.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"Islam, when observed properly, is indeed a great religion. There are those who will distort it as have others who have distorted all other religions."

Observed properly? Who decides what is a correct observation and on what grounds? Executing apostates, blasphemers and homosexuals is the correct observation for many, as is jihad as holy war. Who are you, I, or anyone else to say they are incorrect? They can cite scholars who justify this from the scriptures and they have plenty to go on.

There are no 'great' religions and the monotheisms are probably the most dangerous and divisive of them all. Calling out the extremely dangerous, intolerant and yes, backward, ideas of ancient books at least brings honesty to the discussion. Making excuses for barbaric ideas or playing hide the ball with what is actually in these books isn't helpful.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"Less than 0.005% of the UK 3 million Muslim population are in prison for terrorist related offenses"

Most get killed on battlefields in Syria, etc. or by their own bombs. Never heard of suicide attackers? Khalid certainly wont be going to jail. No one was jailed for 7/7, the worst violence on British soil since WW2, because the Muslim community refused to cooperate with police.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@JeffLee

No one was jailed for 7/7, the worst violence on British soil since WW2, because the Muslim community refused to cooperate with police.

All acts of terrorism are bad whether from the IRA, jihadists, anarchists. The attacks like the one in Westminister also have to be seen for what it is. In the July 7th London bombing 56 people were killed and 700 injured. A very bad day. The four suicide bombers also died from their evil actions.

That wasn't the worse violence on British soil since WWII, that belongs to the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Scotland in 1988. 270 people were killed including a dear friend going home to her parents in New York for the vacation.

Its not only the death of people. The April 10 1992 IRA Baltic Exchange bombing which killed three but also caused £800 million worth of damage, £200 million more than the total damaged caused by the 10,000 explosions that had occurred during the Troubles in Northern Ireland up to that point.

There was the IRA bombing in Bishopsgate, London. April 24 1993. killed a journalist and injured 40 people but it caused £1 billion worth of damage, including the destruction of St Ethelburga's church.

The IRA campaign continued on until the end of2001. The break away IRA groups are still a threat.

You could also say the Irish community living in the UK refused to cooperate with the police. Thousands killed during the Troubles.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Observed properly? Who decides what is a correct observation and on what grounds?

Al azhar mosque is one.

Executing apostates, blasphemers and homosexuals is the correct observation for many, as is jihad as holy war. Who are you, I, or anyone else to say they are incorrect?

For many? You are talking about a religion that has over a billion followers. If "many" executed apostates, blasphemers and homosexuals, there would be ALOT more killings.

There are no 'great' religions and the monotheisms are probably the most dangerous and divisive of them all.

Now you sound just like those you dislike the most. Ironic isn't it?

Calling out the extremely dangerous, intolerant and yes, backward, ideas of ancient books at least brings honesty to the discussion. Making excuses for barbaric ideas or playing hide the ball with what is actually in these books isn't helpful.

No one is making excuses for the extremists. But at the same time, making excuses for hate against religion by aetheists should not be tolerated either.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Aly

Take a look at the countries where homosexuality is or may be punishibale by death. Sharia is involved in every single one. Is this pure coincidence? The combined populations of these countries numbers in the hundreds of millions. I'd call that 'many'.

Take a look at the countries which execute people for leaving a religion. Do you see any link?

Take a look at the countries where blasphemers can be executed. Is a pattern emerging yet?

I certainly have no time for any religion but if countries want to live under religious laws, let them. The problem is that ideas of killing others in the name of religion, attempts to limit freedom of speech, setting up sharia courts, calling for the death of novelists and cartoonists, preachers spewing sexist, homophobic and anti-Semitic filth to voluntary audiences etc. etc. are now part of life in my home country, the UK.

As long as this is going on, I'll criticise it. If the religious can manage to stamp out very nasty behaviour, I'll shut up about it.

Religious ideas have no special privilege. Bad ideas are bad ideas.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Another peaceful Muslim practicing the religion of peace.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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