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5 killed, including gunman, 21 wounded in west Texas shootings

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By Andrew Hay

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61 Comments
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Just another day in America.

17 ( +19 / -2 )

Nothing to see here, folks. Keep moving. The Texas legislature just authorized open-carry pretty much everywhere, so "good guys with guns" will ensure absolute public safety no matter what.

It’s easier to buy a gun in this country then it is to buy a Sudafed.

16 ( +19 / -3 )

Five dead now. When I read these US shootings, I have become as numb as when about middle east bombings.

There are so many it seems the most breaking news alert from AP and the BBC are US shootings. I need an option of "turn off US shootings" in the notifications. Let the US get on with it.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Anyone no in favor of strict gun control at this point is deluded.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

When the Dems win the White house in 2020 they can sign an executive order banning guns. Trump has given the precedent on signing executive orders to get his way, like with the unbuilt border wall, and even promising to pardon people who commit crimes to get it done fast, and so when a progressive gets into power he or she will have 100% right to ban any and all guns as a national emergency measure.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

RIP to the victims and RIP to the many, many more who will perish because of the spineless politicians afraid to tackle the issue.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

RIP to the victims and RIP to the many, many more who will perish because of the spineless politicians afraid to tackle the issue.

Actually, it takes a strong backbone to uphold the second amendment while all of this is happening.

-15 ( +5 / -20 )

Sad. RIP.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Actually, it takes a strong backbone to uphold the second amendment while all of this is happening.

Which isn't tackling the issue.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

You're either pro-gun-control, or pro-mass-shooting. There is no middle ground left.

America has a gun problem, and its initials are NRA.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Yep and its that kind of polarized thinking thats causing the mass shootings and nothing gets done.

You aint going to shoot me, tell you that much

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

You aint going to shoot me, tell you that much

Me neither. But for different reasons.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

You're either pro-gun-control, or pro-mass-shooting. There is no middle ground left.

That’s your personal opinion and my opinion is I reject that notion.

America has a gun problem, and its initials are NRA

Sigh, liberals trying to attack the NRA never work, never, ever. I think we need to put more research into mental health studies or re-open mental asylums. Taking guns or trying to take on the 2nd amendment is a zero starter.

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

“Just say no to guns!”

So so much for the logic of being able to carry guns in public for self protection. It didn’t do anything in this case (or any other mass shooting for that matter).

4 ( +4 / -0 )

"My thoughts and prayers are with the senators that voted down gun control. My thoughts: do your job. My prayer: you're voted out of office."

-- Betty White

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Obviously you can't blame Trump for all of it, but you can blame him for what he's failed to do. Since the two mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton, for example, he's met with Wayne LaPierre and assured him that tougher background checks before buying a weapon are "off the table".

There are no rational explanations for why tougher background checks and limiting the kind of hardware available are bad ideas.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The police chief just said in a press conference that the shooter was a white male in his mid-30s, suggesting that the shooter is known to police but haven’t confirmed.

"It has been confirmed that the active shooter was shot and killed at the Cinergy in Odessa. There is no active shooter at this time. All agencies are investigating reports of possible suspects." - Midland Police

Another homegrown terrorist!

5 ( +6 / -1 )

there is no red pill. how many shooting in Chicago last month? Facts? so the Dem mayor has the answer?

Im not a Pub or Dem, both are lost in the sauce of keeping their jobs, but Trump is NOT the reason. The reason can be found in many of your post; you blame everything except the obvious. Its a change in society no checks or balance, no self control. I remember a song by a popular group, lets just say he moved to LA and was describing what he experienced, that was played on the radio all the time that was controversial as hell. People discussed but nobody was shooting. You play that song today, oh lawd, people go nuts. People like you try to craft human nature or steer someting, it doesnt work so you have what we see today. Probably what I post makes somebody want to shoot up some heroin. They should all come to Japan or live in China, see what tough really can be. People are laughing at us, we have become idiots.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

I mean, Tower Seven. Sheesh.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Yeah Im on the red pill....but its interesting that LA has declined exponentially since that song...under Dem control. Whatever pill your own, sorry, the results speak for themselves.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Albert Einstein

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Yet another shooting in America. Since so many right-wing Americans are against banning guns, why not ban bullets. They can have their guns, but take away their ammo.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Dems already politicizing this. wonderful opportunity for O’Rourke to try to reset his 2020 bid again. as well as release some more public profanity to look “edgy and cool”.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Dems already politicizing this

Thoughts & Prayers won't stop this happening. Neither will mental institutions. What do you suggest be done to reduce the increasingly frequent slaughters?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

What a low level of discourse here. Nothing will be solved when the people cannot set aside their political affiliation and have an honest discussion.

Statements like "your team", "your side", etc. are quite indicative of the fact that the populace has been divided by the elite to the point where we will be easily conquered.

I am not sure how many here commenting are Americans but the issue is pretty complex.

*  Using the current definition of a mass shooting, the first one occurred in the U.S. in 1764 (before the constitution and nationhood).

*  In 1966 a guy went on a 1 1/2 hour shooting spree at the University of Texas, Austin and killed nearly 20 people from an observation deck and shot a bunch more.

*  In 1999 the Columbine shooting happened in Colorado

Since 1999 there has been an exponential increase in shootings in the U.S. My opinion is that the increase is due to declining mental health (actual physical issue) and an increased use of drugs to treat such conditions (a high percentage of younger shooters are on SSRI's or the equivalent).

Throughout the history of the above the availability of weapons has not changed but American society got sick (mentally) and no one seems to be treating the root cause. In addition to the above the political system in the U.S. has become exponentially more corrupt (on both sides - the gun issue happens to be on the so called "right). Politics have become a career (or mechanism for self enrichment) and maintaining power and the mechanism for enrichment; hence the lobbyists.

One very easy solution is to ban assault weapons (a no brainer in my opinion). This can be done by executive order but I am against the use of Executive Orders (which have been used increasingly by all administrations since 9/11).

As a start, the U.S. needs to ban assault weapons and make their possession a Felony and seriously address the mental health issue.

Banning handguns is a next logical step. This sounds good until one considers the 10's of millions of unregistered and illegal handguns existing in the U.S. How would someone deal with that? Violating the 4th Amendment?

This is a very complex issue with no easy solution in the U.S.  There are obvious first steps but it will be difficult to near impossible to fix this problem without the introduction of a very severe "police state" or China like government

5 ( +8 / -3 )

End the 2nd. Ban all guns. Get radical and save lives.

Life Matters!

3 ( +6 / -3 )

@Tokyo-Engr - very good post. It is a combination of issues including but not limited to mental health, and the saturation of American society with guns. Your first steps would probably be considered over-reaching but I completely agree. One thing is certain... people sticking their fingers in their ears is not going to help.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

My condolences to the innocents who died or were injured because the coward in White House doesn’t want to lose his regressive supporters.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Well, the obvious solution is to ban guns. No more debates if there are no more shooters.

But for some people mass shootings are acceptable collateral damage for their gun ownership, so we have them.

Next one will be coming up soon. See ya then.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I want it done through the private sector.

So let's have hundreds of thousands of, how do you like to call them? "mental asylums" but lets commit all those gun owners who are unwilling to have gun restrictions for the sake of the lives of others.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Is this really a NEWs to anyone here?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Sigh, liberals trying to attack the NRA never work

There is a lot of proof that the NRA is a cult. Your membership pays for Wayne's private jets and expensive custom suits.

Actually, it takes a strong backbone to uphold the second amendment while all of this is happening.

Should allow military grade weapons like rocket launchers. Or grenade launchers like the Milkor MGL. Trump2ANRA people want this.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

@Tokyo-Engr - Since 1999 there has been an exponential increase in shootings in the U.S. My opinion is that the increase is due to declining mental health (actual physical issue) and an increased use of drugs to treat such conditions (a high percentage of younger shooters are on SSRI's or the equivalent).

It seems like you are stating it is inevitable that there will be mass shootings in the US because there always has been. Here are some statistics that do not support your theory.

Guns deaths in the US hover around 35,000 per year. From that total 60% are suicides, 25% are violent crime related and 15% are accidental deaths, usually children. The US started keeping accurate records of gun related deaths in 1969. Since that time there has been more people killed in the US by domestic guns than US soldiers killed in all the wars since WW1.

Australia also had a long history of gun violence and mass-murder stretching from the convict days to the mid-90's. However, there was one mass-shooting in Tasmania that claimed the lives of 38 people. This was a turning point in Australian history. Shortly after this event Australia introduced the gun buy-back program. You can find photos on the internet of truck loads of rifles being fed into a hopper to be crushed and recycled into useful objects. Since the gun buy-back program was instigated there has been two mass-shootings in Australia claiming a total of 11 lives. One was a father who killed his family and himself (6 people). The other was a teenager that went nuts at a party. Another unexpected positive that came from the gun buy-back was, rural youth suicide dropped by 80% in the first year.

Comparing these two statistics proves that stricter gun control does work! All you 2nd amendment supporters who state they need a gun to protect themselves from other people with guns are creating the problem and are as guilty as the loons who commit the mass-murders. You will never wash the blood off your hands!

6 ( +6 / -0 )

here we go again ...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

CrazyJoe:

America has a gun problem, and its initials are NRA.

The problem is much deeper than a political influence. It's an American religion, deeply embedded in their minds since the beginning of American history. Logic and reasons have no place in religion. You cannot save them from what they deeply believe as their savior (GUNS SAVE US). It's more like suicide bombers who sincerely believe they are being saved while being killed.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

At the end of the day, conservative posters, will defend and defend the 2nd amendment which allows well regulated militias to exist only, not unregulated WMDs, and declare their freedom to have WMDs is precious than life itself. Of course if their wife or sister or parents or children were the victims, they would be singing another tune. Easier when someone else's DNA bites the dust, see.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

 I think we need to put more research into mental health studies or re-open mental asylums. Taking guns or trying to take on the 2nd amendment is a zero starter.

If supporting the 2nd amendment was used as a measure of mental illness, it might work.

Banning handguns is a next logical step. This sounds good until one considers the 10's of millions of unregistered and illegal handguns existing in the U.S. How would someone deal with that? 

I don't think anyone is expecting an instant solution. A first step might be continue to allow keeping handguns in the home but not carrying them outside, except under strict conditions. (e.g. when going to the firing range, or returning home after buying a gun, they have to be kept in a locked container)

4 ( +4 / -0 )

So, what was his motive and why? Don't see anyone questioning that.

Oh, I see; don't need a motive: He's white, male, most likely Trump-supporter, most likely racist and most likely NRA member. All boxes checked. He's guilty.

The Dems will push for anti-gun laws prohibiting anyone (especially if the the person is white, male, republican-registered and NRA member) from obtaining permit/license to operate and own a gun (any kind).

And then there will be laws to limit the shoot-happy police force from using guns, if not eliminating their use altogether.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

@Disillusioned

Comparing these two statistics proves that stricter gun control does work! All you 2nd amendment supporters who state they need a gun to protect themselves from other people with guns are creating the problem and are as guilty as the loons who commit the mass-murders. You will never wash the blood off your hands!

Not sure if you are implying I am a 2nd Amendment supporter or not or if I have blood on my hands. If so your implication is wrong and ridiculous.

First; the problem which existed in Australia I believe is different than what exists in the U.S. today. The U.S. problem is too embedded within the culture (and in the Constitution) and I would bet a month's salary that there are many more unlicensed illegal firearms in the U.S. that are completely off the radar.

Second; I am not necessarily a 2nd Amendment supporter. Australia still has the right to bear arms (you could call it a 2nd Amendment light). The right to bear arms is for specific weapons and those demonstrating need. What I proposed (ban on assault rifles and semi-automatic weapons immediately followed by a ban on handguns) is pretty close to what Australia's laws are. In Australia one can still get a firearms license for and also own rifles for hunting and sport shooting. Their laws seem reasonable to me.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Australia still has the right to bear arms (you could call it a 2nd Amendment light)

Australia does not have "a right to bear arms" and it's confusing the issue to suggest that it does. The "right to bear arms" in the US is contained within a specific constitutional amendment. Australia has no such provision. The only countries which enshrine a "right to bear arms" in their constitutions are the US, Mexico and Guatemala. It is very, very difficult to own a gun in Australia, and for most of us the idea of owning a gun is utterly alien. If you do want a gun, your reason for wanting one has to be genuine and is thoroughly checked out - farmers or professional hunters hunting feral animals, for example. Handguns can't be bought except by members of target shooting clubs, and have to be kept under lock and key.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/crazy-process-buy-gun-australia-compared-u-s.html/

the problem which existed in Australia I believe is different than what exists in the U.S. today. The U.S. problem is too embedded within the culture (and in the Constitution)

I agree that the problem in the US is different to any which has existed in Australia. Nevertheless we had a problem prior to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre, and that problem has largely been addressed. The new gun control laws are popular, and many would like them to go even further. I can't see any reason why the US couldn't start on the right road by introducing compulsory, strict background checks and by immediately banning military style weapons and assault weapons - in fact any weapons more powerful than the kind of hunting rifles needed for traditional hunting pursuits. You'll still have problems in a country with so many guns in it, but it would be a start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_of_Australia

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Well, the obvious solution is to ban guns.

No, the better and more realistic solution would be to open more facilities that help and cater to mental fitness.

No more debates if there are no more shooters.

Unless the Democrats never want to ever win an election again, touching the 2nd amendment will never happen.

But for some people mass shootings are acceptable collateral damage for their gun ownership, so we have them. 

What a crock. As a gun owner and a law-abiding citizen, liberals will never give us a guilt trip.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

In addition to allowing brass knuckles, the law change - effective today, no longer permits a landlord to declare their home a gun free zone. So far the NRA's thoughts and prayers haven't helped. The 2nd amendment needs to be repealed and at some point I believe it will be.

 5 died this time… and many gun owners will see that as just collateral damage for their right to own and carry.  What a waste.  RIP.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

No, the better and more realistic solution would be to open more facilities that help and cater to mental fitness.

That's a part of the solution, not a complete solution. You'd need to include extensive background checks and regular (probably annual at least) thorough mental health checks for all gun owners.

As a gun owner and a law-abiding citizen, liberals will never give us a guilt trip.

Us? Is that a mental health issue? Speaking like that should definitely see your firearms taken off you.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

That's a part of the solution, not a complete solution.

Not a reasonable one and it will never happen.

You'd need to include extensive background checks and regular (probably annual at least) thorough mental health checks for all gun owners.

That will never fly especially how we now know Democrats could potentially use the information for nefarious reasons, there’s always that possibility given what we’ve been witnessing over the last 3 years.

Us? Is that a mental health issue? Speaking like that should definitely see your firearms taken off you.

What? Anyway....don’t get your hopes up on any form of gun confiscation, now a look at the mental side of it seems more realistic.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Your entire response proves you're not willing to do a single thing to try and solve the issue. You are a large part of the problem.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Your entire response proves you're not willing to do a single thing to try and solve the issue. You are a large part of the problem.

No, I did give some solutions, please scroll up. I think liberals are a big part of the problem, as long as they continue to use emotion to support their arguments.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

No, I did give some solutions, please scroll up. I think liberals are a big part of the problem, as long as they continue to use emotion to support their arguments.

Your only solution given is to look at mental health, and when I suggested it's part of the solution but not the complete solution you came out with

Not a reasonable one and it will never happen.

Which makes zero sense as a response to that which you quoted from me. Then when I suggested ongoing regular mental health checks and extensive background checks you flatly state it'll never be accepted. It shouldn't really need to be explained to you but mental health is not a constant and ongoing mental health checks would absolutely be required for those wishing to own a gun. It's not emotional. It's common sense. All you've done is shown a complete unwillingness to cooperate which is a complete unwillingness to work on a real solution. That is a problem.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Tokyo-Engr: My opinion is that the increase is due to declining mental health (actual physical issue) and an increased use of drugs to treat such conditions (a high percentage of younger shooters are on SSRI's or the equivalent).

I don't buy the SSRI angle. I'm guessing there are millions (haven't researched) of people on them which means the rate would be something in the fraction of a percent. I can't imagine the overall numbers could form any kind of trend.

Declining mental health? Who knows. Maybe people were happier in the past. Or maybe they just weren't allowed to talk about how unhappy they were or seek treatment.

It looks like this guy was a random incident when he was being pulled over, not really the same as the other mass shooters who planned things out. It's the guys who are planning things out that fit the profile of what we're talking about.

My take is that it's technology, with zero scientific evidence backing it up. You have online message boards now where these guys can meet others who have the same thoughts. We're seeing manifestos, and my guess is we have lonely guys at home alone writing something thinking the whole world will finally listen to him. And after he's done shooting, his manifesto will live online forever. Then others read it or see his name and think they want to go out with a bang as well.

The only thing that could help now would be to ban the release of any writings and ban the name of the shooter. Don't give him the fame he's looking for. Make him die alone and anonymous so he doesn't spread the hate online.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

open more facilities that help and cater to mental fitness.

Who is going to pay for that?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The fact is that gun supporters hold all the cards. The anti-gun crowd cannot change the law since there isn't enough of a majority, and that's just the way it works in this country. Mass shootings will be a part of regular, normal life until gun supporters tell us in plain, concrete terms what they're willing to do about it.

So far the answer has been "nothing." My guess is it will continue to be nothing, and my guess is mass shootings will be a thing forever.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Yet another shooting in America. Since so many right-wing Americans are against banning guns, why not ban bullets. They can have their guns, but take away their ammo.

I agree that this is a simple solution. After all, guns don't look people, bullets do.

However, this will probably need to be implemented at a state level, so probably impossibly in reality. But anything that makes it harder to buy large amounts of ammunition cheaply would be a start.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

No, the better and more realistic solution would be to open more facilities that help and cater to mental fitness.

Do you know what caused the suicide rate in Britain to drop by a third almost overnight was?

It was not more mental health facilities, but the switch from issuing poisonous coal has in cooking to natural gas. It was no longer to put your head in an oven and go to sleep. Suddenly it was harder to kill yourself and people did it less. The determined could still jump in front of a train, but fewer did.

When you make it harder for people to do something, they do less of it. Make access to guns harder and there will be fewer killings.

However, a gun ownership tax to pay for mental health facilities might be a good idea. Perhaps $10,000 per gun per year might be a start.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

It's NOT the GUNS, it's the DESPERATION! Another working American driven past his tolerance point, maybe? So steeped in the desperation they are heaping on us that he was on a hair emotional trigger? He could also have been on benzodiazepines one of whose side effects (see package info) is sudden and uncontrollable RAGE. It would be helpful to us to know more about this man and try to understand his rage so that we might see it earlier in the future, but little chance of that usually. I mean the REAL poison in his mind which drove him insane. This was suicidal insanity. And of all of our mass shootings, the only thing that is common to all, other than the convenience of guns, is SUICIDE. In 2017, there were over 46,000 'quiet' suicides that we know of in America, and ONLY a very small percentage of 'loud' suicides, mass murders, which occur when psychopaths are driven to suicide because, as desperate as they may be, they cannot kill the greatest (if misunderstood) Human to have ever walked this Earth!, and they simply don't care how they guarantee that that will happen. It always does. Suicide by cop. Psychopath meets psychopath. There can be only one, and the suicidal but cowardly perp is counting on that. Humans...

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

When guns are completely outlawed and confiscated, the criminals and those with homicidal tendencies will use substitute weapons and fabricate improvised weapons. They always have and always will.

And what's to keep a clever person from making zip guns, pipe guns, and even using a 3D printer to make an improvised gun? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm

Instead of focusing on controlling guns, perhaps society ought to focus on controlling behavior to commit homicides.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Another day, another massacre/shooting in the United States of America (U.S./USA) ... when will this lunacy end?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

When guns are completely outlawed and confiscated, the criminals and those with homicidal tendencies will use substitute weapons and fabricate improvised weapons. They always have and always will.

But why is it that it is always the sickos and whackos that get their hands on guns? And it's the sane and rational people who realize that they don't need a gun in their lives. None of my friends own one and they live happy lives.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. The same old isn't working anymore. Yes, whackos will find another weapon to use, but at least we would have less deaths than we have now. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be better than anything that is being done now.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Lots of countries have plenty of guns but not America's problems with them. America does not need to ban guns. America needs to regulate them. And it can do so in accordance with the Second Amendment. The problem is the pro-gun people are too lazy to come up with proposals they are comfortable with, too paranoid to even consider making proposals, or too busy shooting down the ever increasingly desperate ideas of the opposition, such as toss out the SA and ban guns.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Yawn, thoughts and prayers.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

When guns are completely outlawed and confiscated, the criminals and those with homicidal tendencies will use substitute weapons and fabricate improvised weapons. They always have and always will.

Yawn. Every mass shooting sees the apologists trot out the same old excuses for allowing people to own tools designed for killing, and which have no other purpose. Yes, those with murderous intent can use something else, but they will be far, far less effective.

Let's compare two European examples. In 2015, 7 terrorists shot 131 people at the Bataclan venue. They were armed with AK-47 rifles, I believe.

In 2017 in London, 3 men using a van a weapon and knives killed 8 people before being shot dead by police. Why did they use knives instead of guns? Because they didn't have access to guns.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

another one.... sighs

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's obviously the smart-phone hypnosis. Did you ever notice how it is that more often than not the shooter doesn't even have a reason for what he's done? Also - they always take a plea bargain for life in prison versus almost surefire conviction and execution - so there's never any detail about motivations that would come out of a trial. The reason for offering a plea bargain is that capital cases can cost govt $1 million each.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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