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52% of U.S. Muslims feel targeted by terror policies

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52% of U.S. Muslims feel targeted by terror policies

Fair enough I say when 95% of terrorist acts are commited by them.

Or should the mickey mouse fan club be trageted do ya think?

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trageted = targeted

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Haters of Islam are working their magic. Posting hard on the net. Spewing their paranoid lies wherever they get the chance. Keep it up fellas! At this rate we will have WWIII, West vs. Islam, by 2039! Just like you want!

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Oracle it is already Islam Vs the West or havent you been paying attention.

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Oracle,

Why is it just "haters of Islam" causing the issues. Why cant all these offended muslims actually get off their collective rear ends and stand up to the hardliners if they disagree with what they are doing. I am sick to death of hearing the standard muslim response "oh its a minority that cause the problems" well guess what people if its a minority that are the bad eggs then the majority of moderate "good" muslims should stand up to these bad eggs. This more than anything will improve their standing and the way the western world views them. But no its easier to stay silent and complain about their persecution at the hands of the west.

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ExportExpert: "Fair enough I say when 95% of terrorist acts are commited by them."

Like the dude in Norway? The Aum cult? Timothy McVeigh? anti-abortion Christians? The guy who shot a bunch of people and Giffords?

Come on... you seem to be implying that ALL Muslims should be grouped together with a few radicals, who are just as bad, clearly, as radicals of other faiths or no faith at all, and I doubt very much your 95% stat. Of course, there are probably heaps of people, not coincidentally Islam-haters, who would claim that 'some' incidents are not terrorism while those committed by Muslims are. There's always bias, and excuses, which is a HUGE part of the problem and what this is in part about.

SpidaPig24: "Why is it just "haters of Islam" causing the issues. Why cant all these offended muslims actually get off their collective rear ends and stand up to the hardliners if they disagree with what they are doing."

I'm 'sick to death' of people claiming that Muslims don't get angered about or stand up for themselves over the very, very few who commit acts of terrorism while they ALL suffer because of bigots. I remember people like pasquinade back in the day asking a similar sort of question -- why didn't Muslims voice objection towards the radicals who committed such acts, and then when pointed out that they did, after the attack in Mumbai, people like pasqi could only fumble and backtrack, suddenly claiming 'words alone are not good enough' when all he asked for was said words. And here you are saying they 'remain silent and just complain' in a hostile tone towards them. What do you recommend they do to stand up aside from voicing their objections and scorn towards those who commit such acts?

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Come on... you seem to be implying that ALL Muslims should be grouped together with a few radicals, who are just as bad, clearly, as radicals of other faiths or no faith at all, and I doubt very much your 95% stat. Of course, there are probably heaps of people, not coincidentally Islam-haters, who would claim that 'some' incidents are not terrorism while those committed by Muslims are. There's always bias, and excuses, which is a HUGE part of the problem and what this is in part about.

@smithinjapan: Your arguments can be used by the examples you cited. When the guy in Norway did his deed, what did we get in the news, a "rightist" and "fundamentalist" and they branded all those who may have some far right ideas as full supporters. I am a Christian, and I have my beliefs, and when those radical Christians do things like blow up an abortion doctor, or other things that they do, I don't agree with and they should be denounced, and in my case I denounce them. But you don't see that with the numbers shown in the polls cited. All you get is "we're just victims too."

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smithinjapan

I'm 'sick to death' of people claiming that Muslims don't get angered about or stand up for themselves over the very, very few who commit acts of terrorism while they ALL suffer because of bigots. I remember people like pasquinade back in the day asking a similar sort of question -- why didn't Muslims voice objection towards the radicals who committed such acts, and then when pointed out that they did, after the attack in Mumbai, people like pasqi could only fumble and backtrack, suddenly claiming 'words alone are not good enough' when all he asked for was said words. And here you are saying they 'remain silent and just complain' in a hostile tone towards them. What do you recommend they do to stand up aside from voicing their objections and scorn towards those who commit such acts?

Well l have to say one thing smith, words are not enough. If they are truly sick of being tarred with the same brush the stand up and do something about it. Its easy to say "we dont agree with them" its time that if they are truly sick of a minority ruining it for all muslim then they should stand up and put actions in place along with words. Take care of the bad eggs in their own communities and stop radicals from enciting hate. This whole west vs muslims has gone to far because the moderate muslims only talk, and take no action and the west take action which provokes the muslim world. Its a no win situation

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smithinjapan

You have listed 5 incidents would you now like my list of 95 or what? acutally i think i could make a list with more than 95 - so i rest my case you have proven me correct thanks.

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Spidapig24Aug. 30, 2011 - 04:00PM JST

well guess what people if its a minority that are the bad eggs then the majority of moderate "good" muslims should stand up to these bad eggs.

Well, now that they are rising up in the M.E. and breaking the chains that bind them from such action, it might happen.

Just hope the U.S. or some other meddling government does not pull a coup on a democratically elected government to get a more western friendly dictatorial government like they did in Iran. Democracies are fragile things and if you subvert them you will be lucky if another springs up in 100 years. Mind though, oil seems to be more important than Muslim countries on their own two feet, so don't be surprised if they get their legs chopped out from under them again.

Or did you expect a citizen militia to rise up and stomp out M.E. terrorism separate from their governments but all friendly like?

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ExportExpertAug. 30, 2011 - 03:03PM JST

Fair enough I say when 95% of terrorist acts are commited by them.

That might work if you are talking about Muslim countries. 95 percent of terror there is no doubt cause by people who claim to be Muslim, just like 95 percent of non-government terrorism was committed by people claiming to be Catholic in North Ireland. But we aren't talking about Muslim countries. We are talking about American Muslims here, and no, 95 percent of the terror is not committed by them, not in the world and not in the U.S. either.

Terrorism in the U.S. (outside of color coded alerts) is happily very uncommon. Yeah, we suffered one big attack, but it still only counts as one attack, and a fluke at that. If a Mormon committed a terror attack tomorrow you could say Mormons account for what, ten percent of terror in the U.S.? More? So stop being silly.

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AlphaapeAug. 30, 2011 - 04:16PM JST

and in my case I denounce them. But you don't see that with the numbers shown in the polls cited. All you get is "we're just victims too."

Maybe if you read more Arabic you could find some guy denouncing terror attacks and terrorists over the net, just as bravely as yourself.

Somehow I think when a guy blows himself up in the marketplace or in a Mosque, most Muslims are not impressed. Its sort of like how most people don't support bank robbery, but there always seems to be someone ready to give it a try.

But when certain targets get hit, you can expect about as much outrage as when NATO killed Gaddafi's grandkids, real innocent children, by bombing their house, knowing full well they were there. Killing innocent people is never justified, but when things like that happen, some people get this crazy idea that one innocent death deserves another, or even ten or a hundred. See Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima. No shortage of people thinking all those innocent children deserved to die because their grandpappy died at Pearl.

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I am not even Muslim but I guess sometimes when I grow a beard and or a mustache I get dirty looks, and I am Mexican but it is funny, just go to the airport, anywhere near planes and people start looking over at me, even HERE IN JAPAN let alone if I go to the USA! So I kind of understand what our Muslim amigos are going through, but in this hot and humid Tokyo summer I love to wear SHORTS, so it is funny how then Muslims who think maybe I am a Muslim too but then see my hairy little brown legs and are??? LOL!

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Just my two cents on the fact that Muslims should object. When Al-Quaeda was in its peak in Iraq around 2006-2009, they had some regions under their control in Iraq. Being faithful the quaeda guys and very well mannered, surely they didn't, and objected, smoking. All good so far, problem though, is that if they don't smoke, nobody else should - it's a distraction from god's faith after all. To enforce the law, they started cutting the fingers of people who smoke.

Well my friend, for sure you wouldn't listen to condemnation of radicals from the Iraqis, unless they get off the quaeda of their butts first.

Iraq is not an exceptional case. During last world cup, sharia enforcement forces in Somalia checked into homes, and were executing people who were watching football matches. After all, for them it seemed nonsense to watch football matches during wartime (yet another distraction, just like smoking), so people who watched matches had no right to live.

Similar stories in Pakistan too regarding music, no need to go into details.

To be frank, I much hate when we over simplify things. These people should do, should have done, etc. Have you ever been in a war zone or neighboring radicals? I never did, so I try not judge people who live in conditions different than mine.

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I have seen middle eastern people get mad when the medal detector went off on them and were allowed to proceed to avoid a real incident. The TSA is frisking kids and old people in wheelchairs. The fact that the underwear bomber made it on a flight to America after his dad turned his name in to authorities should prove how they dont and wont pursue people to avoid this very reaction.

In the UK they did a better poll and found that most muslims there disagreed with islamic terrorists committing terrorism but 70 percent thought the country should be ruled by sharia law.

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Oracle

My original comment referred to muslims world wide not just american muslims, you seems to have misunderstood my remark.

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When the number gets up near 100 percent we'll talk...

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Now who did they ask? Muslims men with beards? Women with their faces covered?? There are plenty of "hidden" Muslims you would never know or assume were Muslim based on appearance. It is like asking a white gaijin here if they get stared at for being gaijin.

Regardless sad that so many feel this way.

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"More than half of Muslim-Americans in a new poll say that government anti-terrorism policies single them out for increased surveillance and monitoring"

...I wonder if Pew asked them who then should be singled out for surveillance against islamist terrorism.... Buddhists, Bahais or Jain perhaps? Just how many terrorist acts have they committed?

It mind-boggling how this group can get away playing victim instead of addressing the issue in their midst.

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"most Muslim-Americans say they are satisfied with the way things are going in the U.S. and rate their communities highly as places to live"

Why not use that as the headline? Oh, I see....

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WilliB

It mind-boggling how this group can get away playing victim instead of addressing the issue in their midst.

Very well said too , hit the nail on the head.

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SpidaPig: "Well l have to say one thing smith, words are not enough."

And yet you ask people to stand up -- and words do that. What do you propose they do? You never answered when I asked you before. How do you propose they 'take care of the bad eggs' in their communities? I guarantee you if they took 'action' that was anything more than words and politics (ie. physical action) people would VERY quickly jump out and say, "You see! They're nothing but violent" as is evidenced by yours and other comments. What are you guys doing about it, besides berating all Muslims? You're just using words as well, aren't you?

Here's an idea -- put a moderate Muslim in government and help them pass laws to weed out extremism. But wait! You can't put a ter'rist in the Gub'mint! :)

ExportExpert: "You have listed 5 incidents would you now like my list of 95 or what? acutally i think i could make a list with more than 95 - so i rest my case you have proven me correct thanks."

What a childish response. First of all, I pluralized at least one of the aforementioned cases, and you mentioned percentages, not specific number of incidents, so no, it does not even come close to 95% of acts of terrorism being committed by Muslims, particularly in the US. And then when Oracle points that out rather poignantly you have to back-pedal and claim you've been misunderstood (ie. you're the 'victim').

"My original comment referred to muslims world wide not just american muslims"

Perhaps you ought to say what you mean instead of assuming people can read your mind and that THEY have misunderstood. Regardless, the statistic would still be incorrect, save for, perhaps, predominantly Muslim nations. In fact, there's probably very few countries in the world where that stat would hold true.

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SuperLib: "Why not use that as the headline? Oh, I see...."

Good post, my friend. I agree with you 100%.

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WilliB: "...I wonder if Pew asked them who then should be singled out for surveillance against islamist terrorism...."

Then why not surveil radical Christians for terrorism as well? They didn't commit terrorist acts, so why should they be targeted as though they are terrorists? You, once again, have clearly missed the entire point. Everyone else is just as much a potential terrorist if a Muslim is simply because of his/her religion. Sorry, Willi, but it's true, and you easily fall into the category of people wrongfully targeting others due to intolerance. You prove them correct, Willi.

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I don't really see how people think Muslims as a whole can "speak out" against terrorism unless they have some kind of rallies or something...? I'm not sure what people are expecting from them.

On the other hand, this is a bit surprising:

Regarding possible terror risks, about 21% of Muslim-Americans say there is “a great deal” or “a fair amount” of support for extremism in their communities, according to the Pew survey. About 81% of Muslim-Americans separately say suicide bombings and other forms of violence against civilians are never justified in order to defend Islam, and growing numbers also express an unfavorable view of al-Qaida—81% compared to 68% in 2007.

I pretty much assume that about 10% of the people in any survey are probably insane, so seeing a 20% number above concerns me. I thought it would be lower than that.

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@WilliB

...I wonder if Pew asked them who then should be singled out for surveillance against islamist terrorism.... Buddhists, Bahais or Jain perhaps? Just how many terrorist acts have they committed?

Maybe European rightists, radical Christians in the US, radical Hindus, and god knows who.

It mind-boggling how this group can get away playing victim instead of addressing the issue in their midst.

Mind boggling is how some/many people tend see the world in black and white terms, maybe out of arrogance. While terrorists are mainly to blame for terrorist attacks, one has to ask why (some) countries are targeted while others not. Why not Japan for example is being targeted by these Muslim radicals? Maybe because they don't send their forces left and right where they are not being asked for. Iraq for example.

Everything is very simple. If we have riots in London, what's the problem? Blame the scum. If terrorist attacks committed by radical Muslims, what's the problem? blame the radical Muslims, and so on. With this, we can have a peace of mind. Never question our own actions, never question our government's actions, never take responsibility for the people who we elect (G.W. Bush for example). No nothing. The problem is obviously somewhere else, always.

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smithinjapan: You, once again, have clearly missed the entire point.

I think you tend to target radicals who use hyperbole because it makes yours sound less intense, but you're really in the same boat as they are. Obviously it's not right to target one group for different treatment because then you are hurting the innocent ones. But on the other hand it's just absurd to mention a handful of non-Muslim terrorists over the past 20 years and pretend that everything is equal. You're trying to be so politically correct that you've intentionally become blind to something as basic as raw data.

And once again I'll remind you of how you consistently try to define all members of the US military based off of the worst stories you can find in the media without hesitation.

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Well, once again the naivete shows through. Please read the Torah from cover to cover, please read the qur'an and hadiths from cover to cover... In fact its good for the "I know all about this religion and its peaceful" folk should actually read the religious texts for every major religion in the world. So Smith and Oracle please read the authentic translations of the qur'an from its origins in Arabic translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali (1934) (which happened to be given to me by my uncle who is muslim) or any other early translations pre 2001 from cover to cover. Then read the hadiths from cover to cover. You can know people, but you can't claim to know what they believe until you read about what they believe from their standpoint. And I've said it many times. Talk to former muslims that were born into a muslim family. You'll find many organizations specifically of former muslims trying to get it through to ignorant blind people that its not all coincidence but a planned assault against everyones human rights to freedom of speech/conscience/and right to religious and non-religious beliefs because they were there and know what is taught in the madrasas.

Muslims aren't the problem, the religion of Islam is the problem. Just because you meet some "nice" muslims doesn't also mean they're all nice, just like meeting some "bad" muslims make them all mean. I can get along with muslims just like I can get along with buddists, hindu, athiests, christians, jewish, wiccans etc. But only Islam promotes crushing and subjugating the unbeliever and forcing "conversion" (even with lies or threats) in its religious text... Islam is also the only religion that has people that leave it turn back with a vengeance and accuse it of being the worst political cult in history. You'll find Hundreds and thousands of Iranians, Egyptians, Africans from Islamic governed states, Indonesians Sure people can claim "the bible says to stone people for adultry" etc. but the bible also has 2 seperate sections the first of which was from an early civilization (Judean tribe for one) and followed by the 2nd half which gave rise to the christians(who did not take it upon themselves to punish others for God). The Hindu also do not run around.

I accept and have absolutely nothing against any religion that does not violate my basic human rights, Islam unfortunately goes beyond the religious edict that religion is only for self-governance to the point of beliefs to govern and control others

To many muslims everyone is nothing but a kafir that will be subjugated later on, or whose children or grandchildren will be subjugated or "submit" to Islam later on. I'm not fear-mongering at all. this is the truth, my uncle who is born an american citizen and muslim stated it (before 9/11 in 1996) in an effort to convert me to Islam. One of my former room-mates who was muslim (immigrant from an African country) also stated it. Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, Three times or more happening to more and more people is a plan in motion.

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And no I did not proof-read my earlier post which is fraught with incomplete sentances har har. But the point is I'm calling a wolf for a wolf. And for the people want to fall for a wolf in sheeps clothing act, its on them when it all comes to a full stop on their heads.

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Maybe when the number one "terrorist" group (the USA) stops invading all the countries that don't follow the american style of democracy then the other "terrorists" (the muslims) will also stop. Like some CIA guy , i forget his name, said before "Al-qaeda's (if it really exists) greatest recruitment asset is the foreign policy of the Usa and her client states".

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Oh, and before more people lose their heads please keep in mind that Islam is a RELIGION (so-called imo) and not a race or Ethnicity... so its not a genetic pre-disposition that is given on birth although many muslims are taught to believe that it is. It has nothing to do with race, or to an extent nationality.

And for my last example here is a "one of these things do not belong here" list of peaceful religious figures that influenced their followers: Bhudda Ghandi Jesus Mohammed

Only one of those figures has raided stolen from others like a bandit king, murdered the fiance to one of his wives and then married her out of "compassion" for killing him. Raped and enslaved the women and children after murdering the men with his followers. He conquered the lands that "offended" his self made beliefs for calling him a heretic when he had enough followers to make an army, and even broke his own religious doctrines that he came up with. And this kind of man is being "white-washed" to try and turn him into a "holy" man that did no wrong. The fun part is the truth can't be disproved because its written by both him and his followers his actions and deeds. So have fun trying to disprove it. And the most frightening thing of all he now has a major religion created out of his heinous actions of the time.

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Geeeeee.... I wonder why that would be? Is it because about 90% of all terrorist acts are carried out by muslims? Surely not? Too bad..... I feel soooo sorry for you because you feel threatened.

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@HonestDictator

Well, once again the naivete shows through.

Your post is no better my friend as it much lacks accuracy, and is misleading at times as the historical events that you mentioned lack a proper context. Don't even want to get started as it will take much effort, and I'm very sure that in the end it will be futile.

If you were comparing religions, then you should probably referred to more recent events (the Crusades 500 years ago) instead of going to event 1200 years ago which had less magnitude in terms of numbers of casualties and brutality.

As far as religion is concerned, Christianity and Judaism are no better than Islam, as both had disgraceful periods where a lot of blood was shed.

And to be frank I'm fed up with the followers of the three religions picking on each other (who is fundamentally better and who is fundamentally worse), and dragging all of the nations into their conflicts every few hundred years.

Today, Islam has more followers/radicals who are willing to shed the blood of the innocent, not long ago (500-600) years, it was Christianity that had more followers/radicals who are willing to shed the blood of the innocent. Before that one of them, and before that another. Pretty much like the cycle of seasons. So you can leave your fundamental analysis aside (again, I will not talk about accuracy).

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The FBI Database indicated that extremist Jews committed more acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic. The difference is the result of the media coverage due to the lack of attention paid to such events. Therefore the average American does not remember any Jewish terrorist. On the other hand the Islamophobes will conclude that Islam is fundamentally a terrorist religion and it would be politically correct to profile them. Hence such talk would be considered bigoted and this improper label continues to make a high percentage of Muslim-Americans feel targeted.

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I just hope and pray that all of these terrorist acts would be gone so we can live peacefully.

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I would say its Christians Vs Muslims ...and Jews Vs Muslims... There is no West or Americans Vs Muslims ...

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@vladrin while the crusades ended in very bad aspects maybe you should look at history and find out exactly why the crusades were STARTED :D. Quite interesting.

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Its not christians vs muslims and its not jews vs muslims. Its Islam vs all religions and "non-believers" prove me wrong with the events going on in todays world. There are plenty of Hindu willing to correct you on Islam only targetting christians and jews as well as the bhuddist majority in southern Thailand. Mumbai attacks didn't come out of nowhere for example its just one of the larger attacks without knowing of the smaller attacks on villages and small towns in India where extremists love to target those non-muslim pagan hindu for not following Islam.

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on a side note its usually the american muslims that are being more self conscious. I remember sitting down at the local public library minding my own business and a muslim woman sits down at the same table. I'm still minding my own business reading an article on my laptop and chuckling at some of the things written there and she automatically assumes I'm reacting to her presence when I could really care less.

Kind of makes me wonder for anyone interested in answering, how many people here have followers of Islam in their own family? So far I only have just one of my uncles and his wife living in Michigan, and no not Dearborn xD.

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Spidapig24

If you think that Muslims should take care of their crazies, including ones that might try to kill the if they do, then I assume that you feel the same about Christians. So when do we hear you talk against Christian crazies like the Christina Dominionist, or perhaps the Westboro Baptist Church? I assume you will also talk against those Christians that try to kill abortion doctors, or bomb gay places as well or who try to outlaw birth control. In other words do you talk the talk or walk the walk? If you don't than we may assume you are just a hypocrite

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Christopher Blackwell

If you think that Muslims should take care of their crazies, including ones that might try to kill the if they do, then I assume that you feel the same about Christians. So when do we hear you talk against Christian crazies like the Christina Dominionist, or perhaps the Westboro Baptist Church? I assume you will also talk against those Christians that try to kill abortion doctors, or bomb gay places as well or who try to outlaw birth control. In other words do you talk the talk or walk the walk? If you don't than we may assume you are just a hypocrite

Two points here. 1/ Are the christians complaining that they are being targeted because of the actions of the groups you mentioned? No 2/ If they did feel that way, or even regardless if they disagree with the actions of the groups you mentioned then yes they should do something about it.

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HonestDictatorAug. 31, 2011 - 07:38AM JST

chuckling at some of the things written there and she automatically assumes I'm reacting to her presence when I could really care less.

You read her mind?

FYI, that is common bit of psychology that does not discriminate, whatever she thought, and whatever you thought she thought. The whole thing says more about you than her.

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Segregation, Cold War, War on Islam...watch out Chinese, you are next.

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@HonestDictator

Its Islam vs all religions and "non-believers"

I don't think you caught my main idea. You say that Islam is fundamentally corrupted because of core beliefs values within the religion (like treatment of people of other religions and non-believers, which I'm well aware of), and that this core produces radical behavior.

Now, I don't agree with you on the fact that the corrupted core of Islam produces radicals. Radicals, from my point of view and as history taught us, are produced by the political, economical and social conditions. This is true for radical Muslims, as well as for radical Christians in the 15th century, even as well as for radicals among football fans. If the existence of radical Muslims is an indicator of the corrupted core of Islam, then the existence of radical Christians should be an indicator of the corrupted core of Christianity (which is not true).

That said, you can't blame Islam's fundamentals for what is happening. Islam's fundamentals are as harmful as the fundamental's of Judaism. I don't believe that people who are taught that they are god chosen ones are very much better than Muslims for whom deep inside, you will always be Kafir (non-believer) to them. But again, the problem with radicals that we were facing in the past centuries has few to do with fundamental teachings of every religion, and more with the environment/conditions.

The multiple wars that the west is having in Muslim countries, in which civilian casualties will always be Muslims as wars held in their countries, causes a serious problem. Both Western (Americans especially) and Muslims watch the same story but react very differently. An American sees a soldier from his country dies an reacts in a way. The Muslim see a child or a woman die and reacts in another (which is much more negative provided that the casualty is not only a civilian but often happens to be a child). In terms of hatred generated on both sides, you will have more on the Muslim side, which will end up being balanced through terrorist attacks (call it karma if you want).

The solution for the problem is not through wars or arrogant comments. There is a gap, both cultural and economical, and it needs to be bridged.

P.S. For those in the west who see themselves victims, I dare you to count the civilian casualties in western countries (from terrorist attacks) and in Muslim countries that have war and western armies are directly involved (be it for the last year or the last decade). If you have something like 1 western civilian to 10-50 Muslim civilians, then you should be able to understand why more radicals are produced among Muslims. And the fact that western civilians are killed outside of war zones unlike the Muslim ones means little to the average Muslim person, as a civilian is a civilian after all no matter were he/she dies. So don't expect them to be much sympathetic to terrorist attacks victims of western countries.

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HonestDictatorAug. 31, 2011 - 02:30AM JST

If Islam is a "so-called" religion, I wonder how you feel about Christianity and Judaism on which it is based. I have to assume you never heard of Jericho by your post. You know they all worship the same vengeful God don't you? Fire, brimstone, pillars of salt, plagues, torture, revenge, war and death are cornerstones of the Abrahamic religions. Its no wonder all three turn against eachother. Seems they all require someone to butcher and call heretic. It just seems to be Islam's turn at center stage doing it. Meanwhile the Jews of Israel continue to control Palestine, and the Christians of the coalition continue to shoot up the countryside and rain bombs from the air in Afghanistan and Iraq.

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So why do they keep coming to America?

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oracle

95 percent of terror there is no doubt cause by people who claim to be Muslim, just like 95 percent of non-government terrorism was committed by people claiming to be Catholic in North Ireland

People like you never get the crucial difference - Mohammedan terrorists use their religion to justify what they do.They cite the founder of their religion as the example they are compelled to follow. When they kill they shriek the name of the deity they worship.

Washington DC, New York, London, Nigeria, Thailand, Mindanao, Madrid, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Palestine, Western China, Afghanistan, Beslan, Algeria, Egypt, Bali, the Sudan, Somalia, Bombay;the list just keeps growing...

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Quoting John Mueller, an Ohio State University Professor and terrorism expert, in the LA Times:

"The number of people [not just Americans] worldwide who are killed by Muslim-type terrorists, Al Qaeda wannabes, is maybe a few hundred outside of war zones. It's basically the same number of people who die drowning in the bathtub each year."

Now if you count catholic drug cartels in Mexico, who kill thousands upon thousands every month, as terrorists (any sane person would), you can make the argument that catholics are far more dangerous.

More numbers on the "danger" of Islam. Quoting Harper's Index:

Number of American civilians who died in terrorist attacks in 2010: 8 Minimum number of Americans killed by lightning strikes in 2010: 29

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human target

Quoting John Mueller, an Ohio State University Professor and terrorism expert, in the LA Times: "The number of people [not just Americans] worldwide who are killed by Muslim-type terrorists, Al Qaeda wannabes, is maybe a few hundred outside of war zones. It's basically the same number of people who die drowning in the bathtub each year."Now if you count catholic drug cartels in Mexico, who kill thousands upon thousands every month, as terrorists (any sane person would), you can make the argument that catholics are far more dangerous.

What ridiculous analysis. You have limited the definition of terrorism in the name of Islam to incidents "outside of war zones", completetly overlooking the fact that places as disparate as Somalia , Iraq , Afghanistan and the Sudan are filled with Mohammedan fanatics who traveled from places like Yemen or Algeria or Libya or Saudi or Egypt or Pakistan - or the suburbs of London and even Minneapolis - to fight and kill for Al Qaeda and the Taliban, or the Janjaweed, or Al- Shabaab.

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Catholic drug cartels aren't killing in the name of their religion. For that matter if there ever was a psycho who yelled praise Jesus while killing innocent people the media would be all over it. The same media ignores all the other people who murder while screaming allah akbar.

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@BreitbartVictorious

People like you never get the crucial difference - Mohammedan terrorists use their religion ...

It's obvious that you didn't even bother to read the comments written by others before you on this post, or you wouldn't have declared such a naive and arrogant statement. I assume that you watch t.v. news in the same spirit.

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All the Muslims every where in the world regardless their nationalities are against to the Jews Occupation in Palatine and the American Jews Christian Support for the creation of a Jews state ( Israel )... This is the main , prime reason for Muslims are against to America and the regime. this is a matter of religions...Islam does not say to kill kafirs...( non believers ) unless They attack on you. Christians and Jews are shares the same Prophets as Muslims respect them in holy Quran,and practically. Why Christians so Support the Jews, ?? Jews are they , who Crucified the Jesus...reject him , his claims as messiah. Muslims believe Jesus as messiah but reject the the story of the crucifixion.

Why the Christian bishops / Vatican .. keeps silent on this matter...as you know the truth...Why you keep dumb..? in this politics ...they play cat paw..? The christian must Support the Muslims more than the Jews ...in religiously ... and politically.

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@Oracle Islam goes beyond religion (it is actually is a political-religious ideology if you really knew anything about it) when it regulates a government based on religious text and dictates. There is a big difference between living in China and living in an Islamic GOVERNMENT (note with the exception of Vatican City there are no other places that run on religious dictates)... Remember the recent split of Southern Sudan and Northern Sudan? Look up what it takes to be a citizen in the Maldives (which REQUIRES a citizen to be muslim). In America the majority claims to be christian, but does the US government REQUIRE you or anyone else that wants to become a citizen to change their faith? Same goes with the EU, Thailand, China, India, Russia and so forth, NONE of them require you to change your religious beliefs in order to be treated as a citizen of that country without being subject to some form of government "subjugation" to the major religion of the land. Islam is the only religion that DOES.

@Miyazawa, and the Mumbai attacks were only against the christians in India right? The murders of buddists in southern Thailand by Islamic extremists was only against christians right? The Phillipines too? African States? It would be nice if was only as simple as you want to believe.

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As much as Islamic apologists want to take the color red and make others believe it is green, red will always be red. The proof keeps coming and only fools keep ignoring it. There is one thing I absolutely love about Islam, its direct and straight-forward in its plans for mankind. And yet we still have tons of people that insist that black is white or its still grey since they still can't comprehend it or don't care to know that it is exactly what it says it is. I can say I hate Judaism, but not people who are jewish. I can hate Christianity, but not christians. I can say I hate Hinduism, but not the people that follow it and so on and so forth, but I hate Islam but not the muslims? Isn't something funny with the responses to that? lslamic extremism/seperatism is growing in the UK, and in some parts of the EU right now, its growing in some parts in the US as well, its always been in India, Philipines, Thailand, and Africa just not often reported on MSM.

@Oracle well I obviously forgot to mention the woman I mentioned earlier decided to confront me stating, "Do you find me funny??!" So no, it wasn't "all in my head" about her own self-conscious issues being muslim. If what a person believes in causes them to be confrontional with others then yes, the ideology is at fault. The ex-muslims especially know that, and they themselves will tell you Islam is like being cult.

To be honest if all the muslims in the world actually read their qur'an and hadiths from cover to cover in a language they could understand instead of being led around the nose by the Imams when they question Islam (which suprise suprise is forbbiden to question Islam).

Three things will happen to them upon doing so. 1. They leave Islam, 2.They'll try to reform it(which is extremely difficult considering the founder's background) 3. They'll become fundamentalists or extremists. I'm free to believe what I want to believe and same with you. Only time will show whose "right" or "wrong". Give another 10-15 years time and there should be some pretty good signs.

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I am not surprised by this news. I am sure there are many innocent and law-abiding Muslims, but the fact is that their Holy Book preaches the killing of all "infidels" ie, those preceived by them to be Western christians in particular. I agree with other posters here who say that the law abiding followers of this ideology (I dont think it can be defined as a religion) should distance themselves from the crazy and evil fanatics.

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" 'When asked to choose, nearly half of Muslims in the U.S. say they think of themselves first as Muslim, rather than as American.` "

That is the problem right there, and alas this is typical for muslim immigration all over the world. The ummah precedes any national identity.

" `Roughly 60% say that most Muslims come to the U.S. to adopt the American way of life and see no conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society.' "

That is of course blatantly false. Those who say that are either ignorant of islamic teaching (and the more mosques sprout in their target country, the more they will be educated) or lying (which is sanctioned, it is called taqiyya).

The American way of life, of course, contradicts islamic doctrine front, and center. Something has to give.

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On same token how many people consider themselves Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, etc before American. Figures are only so much good unless you get the full figures/data/picture.

The game can be played many ways and still no-one wins. ;)

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@HonestDictator

Remember the recent split of Southern Sudan and Northern Sudan?

I remember it. What exactly you want to say is not clear? The majority of southerns are Christians, but that doesn't mean that they separated because of oppression. Don't jump to conclusions if you are not well aware of the circumstances. The major problem was a corrupted northern ruling party that is unwilling to share power (neither with the Christians or other Islamic parties, like Hassan Al-Turabi's). Please be accurate in your statements as this is the 6th-10th time I find false accusations in the 4-6 posts you had.

@WilliB

That is the problem right there, and alas this is typical for muslim immigration all over the world. The ummah precedes any national identity.

Same is true for millions of pro-Israel Jews in the U.S. Though unlike Muslims, they managed to push the U.S. into unnecessary wars, vetos in security councils that negatively affected the image of the U.S. world wide, and god knows what else. Need I to refer you to papers concluded by respective U.S. professors on this issue. Just to be safe that I wouldn't be accused of antisemitism. Please be objective in your arguments.

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globalfreezing:

" am not surprised by this news. I am sure there are many innocent and law-abiding Muslims, but the fact is that their Holy Book preaches the killing of all "infidels" i "

Actually, no it does not. The koran states that infidels have 3 choices: 1. convert to islam, 2. live as second-class dhimmis under islamic "protection" and 3. die.

So, it is not as simply as you stated. You don´t need to be killed, you have other choices. (Not that they are all that great.)

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It`s ME:

" On same token how many people consider themselves Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, etc before American. "

Very few. How often do you hear talk about a world-wide Buddhist nation? And it does not make much sense, either because Buddhism does not come with a constitution. About Jews who put their Jewish identitiy above their American ones, they have the option of becoming Israeli citizens.

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WilliB.

It is out there just don't get the air-time as the Muslims are the modern day Jews, Blacks, etc.

Do some research into "Enemy Picture" and how it has been used across the ages to justify prosecution, wars, etc.

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@WilliB

Very few. How often do you hear talk about a world-wide Buddhist nation? And it does not make much sense, either because Buddhism does not come with a constitution.

You have to be kidding me. You take the most peaceful religion (Buddhism) as an example to compare to Islam. Please focus more on other Abrahamic (Judaism and Christianity) and compare them. Both in terms of loyalty to the country versus religious beliefs. And assuming that you're an American, I'm not going to educate you on the statements of many American officials that prioritized Israel's safety over national security out of pure religious belief that both religions share a common enemy.

Yet again, please be objective.

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@HumanTarget

Yep my friend, this wraps it all up. No one of these religions is better than any else, not from an outsider's point of view. They can argue all they want (the three of them), but statistics and historical facts are not their friend (none of them).

It just amazes me how people like HonestDictator and WilliB go so far in analyzing other religions. Take WilliB for example, he digs deep enough in Islam to know the treatment of non-Muslims in Muslim's territories, and arguing about that, while missing many of the dirty details in religions dominant in the west, which I assume he follows provided that he has such a subjective view on Islam (as people who do not follow any of these three Abrahamic religions tend to be more objective).

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WilliB... I say , you must Learn Islam / Buddhism first to comment on those.. don't misguided the people on this forum...

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@vladrin, I pay attention to something that is causing problems in my society and my life in order to understand WHY it is happening. Missing dirty details of other religions in the west, oh you mean like my buddist wife forcing me to become buddist just because she is or me to demand for her to leave buddism because I'm agnostic? Well I've yet ot have a person of jewish faith run up to me and complain about they want to change me to believe in judaism or be subjected to their religious ideology. When I've come accross christian evangelists asking ,"do you know jesus?!" and "preaching" about hellfire and damnation if I'm not born again and quite happily I've easily been able to tell them to "buzz off" and leave me alone because its my RIGHT to do so. I'm happily agnostic and free to run around the statesly without having to worry about globally-linked organizations of Jewish extremists, Christian extremists, Bhuddist extremists, Hindu extremists,wiccan extremists.... you should get the idea. And for you to believe that the Islamic government installed in Northern Sudan had absolutely nothing to do with oppression of non-muslims let alone the sudanese christians which still did HELP with the seperation you're completely with your head in the sand. Part of it was tribal, part of it was political, but in the end Islam would not accept co-habitation with others who don't follow it.

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An interesting article on Islamic ideology. It doesn't stop at religion, it conforms both religion and politics. Democratic societies with various beliefs systems do not have such constitutional amendments that force a people to believe what the government wants to believe.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/political-islam/constitutions-of-islamic-countries-from-contradiction-to-practical-discriminations-and-inequities/

When any government becomes an "Islamic" government, everyone who is not muslim or not "muslim" enough will be subjugated by their right to work, right to believe how they see fit, and even what their status as a citizen is.

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It is easy for any country to change in a democratic society when the majority rules in a vote. Take for example with what happened in Dearborn, Michigan at one of the Arab Festivals (note it was not called the Islamic festival, but try telling the attendants that). If the vast majority take control of a local government then the local government will be changed to meet the needs of the people, the issue that happened though violated Federal law and constitutional rights that are given to the entire nation's citizens. There was violation of free speech, freedom of expression, tampering with evidence and so on. A federal court had to issue a statement informing the local state government that they were in the wrong and the citizens had their rights violated.

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HonestDictator,

I'm interested to know how exactly Islam has affected your life, other than by indirectly turning our once great country into a woefully indebted draconian police state.

Funny you should talk about laws and constitutional amendments forcing people to believe what the government wants them to, because I'm pretty sure last time I checked the Patriot Act more or less fulfilled that exact purpose.

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Many Mohammedans come to America and learn that groundless outrage, playing the victim and the race card, and adopting the Left's stance of being perpetually aggrieved can often pay off quite well.

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@Breitbart

1) "Mohammedan" is a word used to insult Muslims. (But you know that very well, don't you?) It implies worship of Mohammed, which Muslims reject emphatically. Just out of interest, would you call a Jewish woman a "Jewess"?

2) Believe it or not, "Muslim" isn't a race. There are British, Bosnian, Indian, Arabic and Malaysian Muslims. So how can they be playing the "race card"?

3) The left is "perpetually aggrieved"? No. The Tea Party folk, Rush Limbaugh's followers and the white supremacists are way ahead, believe me. Whine, whine, whine about the erosion of standards and the country going to the dogs....

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lucabrasi

) "Mohammedan" is a word used to insult Muslims. (But you know that very well, don't you?) It implies worship of Mohammed, which Muslims reject emphatically.

Know anything about Islam? Mohammed is regarded as the perfect man (Al-insan al-Kamil).Why should anyone be offended? Let us examine his life and deeds... I was basically raised Christian in a nation of predominantly Christians and now reside in a Buddhist nation of Buddhists. I have the highest regards for the historical figure of Buddha. I am tired of one way demands of tolerance and one-sided 'political correctness'. Islam claims to be a revealed religion, like Christianity. I therefore choose to sometimes call it and its followers by the name of the person through whom it was revealed, in keeping with centuries of usage by English speakers and writers.

Just out of interest, would you call a Jewish woman a "Jewess"?

Nice try.

) Believe it or not, "Muslim" isn't a race. There are British, Bosnian, Indian, Arabic and Malaysian Muslims. So how can they be playing the "race card"?

I am well aware of that. But since you are not American and know little of US politics and race relations there is little point in explaining to you how often Muslims in America try to make it racial.

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human target blames Islam for all our problems

I'm interested to know how exactly Islam has affected your life, other than by indirectly turning our once great country into a woefully indebted draconian police state.

What a hater

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@Breitbart

Yes. I know plenty about Islam. Religion is one area of knowledge I can claim a bit of knowledge. Enough to know that Muslims hate being called "Mohammedans". Christians are so-called because they worship Christ. Muslims do not worship Mohammed. Now, you can ignore that fact and carry on calling them "Mohammedans" all you want, but I'd say that reflects somewhat badly on you. A bit like those ex-empire retired British military who insisted on calling blacks in southern Africa "kaffirs" (and yes, I know the origin of the word). Their excuse was "Well, they are kaffirs, what else should we call them?" Pathetic.

And as to the "race card"... if you feel the Muslims in the States are "trying to make it racial", why dou you choose to aid and abet them by talking about "race" rather than "religion" in this case? You're shooting yourself in the foot....

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@HumanTarget, I've pretty much repeated this over the years I've been on this site, but I'll humor you. First off my first experience was with while visiting my uncle back in 1996 in Michigan. He is muslim and therefore since I was a relative of course he wanted me and my mother to to be won over to the "splendor" of Islam. So anyways, without getting into too much detail the crap that came out of his mouth as to why I should become muslim didn't affect me so much back then because in those days nobody really cared about Islam for two-cents and it was "just another religion" in the world (at least to us little ignorant american hicks).

When I came back to my home state of Colorado after this visit I always would stop by this little shop (I had no idea that the person who ran the shop was muslim, and again back then I didn't care) and because I liked the bean pies they made so me and my "I don't care about Islam cos its just another religion" self asked where could I get the recipe. Her response, "Well just come on down to this mosque here and you'll find out." Now I'm not big on evangalists, or the hari-krishna folks that try to get me to run on their beliefs being the agnostic person I am. So I could tell a lure for "conversion" when I saw one. This wasn't all that important to me back then either.

Roll around to 2001 summertime I'm in Utah going to school living in a dorm where I shared a room with about 4 other guys, some stayed some went and we always got a new one almost every 6months or so. One just happened to be an african immigrant who was a devout muslim. Now remember, nobody really cared about Islam still because the US as a nation didn't see any threat from religious beliefs except for those crazy cults like branch davidians, or some random abortion clinic fanatical christian (y'know most of them just walked around with picket signs, not blowing up the local grocery store or church because they didn't agree with abortion). Anyways, this man had an attitude problem, he ended up being booted from the school because the classes he was taking were not changed to have breaks meet his prayer times or whatever other religious needs he wanted. His entire attitude towards everyone was just plain hostile, and exceptionally anti-social and he liked to carry the "you kafir's" air about him I guess. Its not that the people in the school didn't like him because he was muslim, they didn't like him because he was demanding more than what could be adapted at the school for people and his basic personality. Now I admit I don't know what he may have experienced in his life that made him that way, but knowing what I now know about Islam, it didn't help him.

Now don't get me wrong I've met good PEOPLE who are muslim just like I've met the bad PEOPLE. What matters is whats in peoples hearts that make them trustworthy and how they treat others around them. Most of the good people who are muslim have not read the qur'an in a language they can understand, nr visit the mosque and do their prayers and such. They pretty much only rely on the the white-washed version and or lies (literally) that the Imams teach which is only to get people in the door. When 9/11 hit of course I wanted to know why the perpatrators kept claiming that they were justified by Islamic doctrine, and why so many people in many Islamic countries were dancing the the streets. So I read up on Islam and studied what caused people to think and act like this. Also during the times I've had friends and penpals from the Philipines and Russia that were telling me what was going on in their countries with Islamic extremism/seperatists, it just isn't reported beyond their national news all the time. Then the crap that my uncle was talking about and my own experiences pretty came back to me and started adding up.

This was easily backed up by ex-muslims that I know of and the organizations they have made to try and support each other emotionally and at times physically for being apostates (since Islam does promote persecution and even execution of those who were "born" muslim and leave of their own free will). Just FYI the ex-muslims have been telling the facts of Islam since the early 1980s, just that they were able to reach a lot more people since the internet came around. You'll never see a website that promotes leaving hinduism ran by ex-hindu because of all the horrible acts it promotes against other religions, or anti-christian websites ran specifically by former christians (yeah sure the athiests have some but they only try to disprove the belief in any god or religion and not all of them are former christians.), and so on. But you will find the ex-muslims pointing out specifically what is wrong with Islam from the holy texts, history of Islam and its founder, as well as hadiths since they had to live under this "religious" system since birth. The increased reports of Islamic fundamentalist aggressiveness around the world have also actually been going on for quite a long time, just once again, was not reported as global information back then as well.

Anyways, I'm out for now need a break. I'm not going to try and back track and say, "I apologise" because I am very critical of Islam, because guess what? Last I check I could be critical of any religion or anyone I please where I live. But there are some in this world that are beginning to say that criticising Islam specifically shouldn't be done... next will come what? Don't criticise christianity? People have been doing that since forever and don't have to worry about someone threatening their life because they do so. We can even criticise the judaism and even though people would try to claim anti-semetism it's a completely different thing to criticise a religion and its followers than it is to criticise a people for their ethnicity. As a british announcer once stated, "Since when was muslim a race?"

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And what are they doing about that? The onus is on them, I'd imagine, not the US public.

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