66 abortion clinics shut in U.S. since court ruling: report

Texas banned all abortion without a ballot. Voter suppression laws. The governor claims he will eliminate rapes, 14,000 cases last year. Texas is in the top spot, with more, reported rapes in 2020 than even California, the most populous state in the country.

They can travel to another state. And also that law is broadly taken out of context. You would be able to have an abortion in certain situations.

Ah except Republicans want a nationwide ban.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/13/republican-national-abortion-ban-lindsey-graham

51% of Texans have been denied their rights by the abortion law.

The majority of Americans support abortions. 61% of Americans say abortion should be legal

Now people just need to make adjustments with their behavior so as not to have to come in conflict with the laws.

Women just need to not get raped or have medical emergencies. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you are a guy.

At the core, that is what this abortion issue is all about--the law.

And in this case, the law is very dumb. Laws should be about bettering society, and improving things for people; not dogmatically shoving your world view on others.

painkiller

If you had the right to vote in the US, you would have a substantive say on this matter.

I know it hard for you to understand that JT is not the USA. We all have equal rights to post our opinions. If you are wanting just those with the vote then find another forum.

*

*

At the same time, abortion is illegal in the UK, so this concept does not seem so unique.

Abortion in the United Kingdom is de facto available through the Abortion Act 1967 in Great Britain, and the Abortion (Northern Ireland) (No. 2) Regulations 2020.

In England, Scotland and Wales, you can legally have an abortion at up to 23 weeks and 6 days of pregnancy, in line with the Abortion Act 1967.

In Northern Ireland, abortion was decriminalised in 2019, and the new legal framework came into effect in 2020. Abortion is now unconditionally legal up to 12 weeks in Northern Ireland. After 12 weeks, the law is essentially the same as the rest of the UK.

Ireland also made abortion legal

So long as a 3-day waiting period has elapsed, abortion care is lawful on request up to 12 weeks of pregnancy. Abortion is also lawful for reasons of risk to a woman's life or of serious harm to her health and in cases of fatal foetal anomaly. Abortion remains criminalised in all other cases.

Well, that’s your personal opinion as you said.

Yes, backed by the fact that in some specific circumstances you are, in fact, pro-choice.

One cannot believe in the sanctity of life, whilst simultaneously allowing for the destruction of life in some circumstances.

Again, I think 15 is the max that should be allowed and remember, there’s also adoption.

Well, that's your opinion, but it isn't an argument. Do you have any idea how many children are already in need of a loving, stable family? Why should women be forced to carry babies?

At the core, that is what this abortion issue is all about--the law.

Ask Kentuckians and other states soon to follow. Laws change. I’m sure you are aware of this phenomenon.

Painkiller - I want everyone who is eligible to participate in the voting process. I am in a deep blue state, so these anti-choice laws don't affect me and mine as much as those living in red states, but I still feel sorry for the mostly poorer and minority women (and some men too) whose lives are going to be impacted by these laws, and not for the better. Women of means will continue to do what they need to do as they did before Roe. Anyway, keep trying to keep women down and see where that gets you.

Did you agree with it being lawful nationwide?

Yes. This is a right that women have had for 50 years.

And 65%+ of the population has agreed with me for the last 50 years and this WILL be a voting issue just as it was in Red, RED KS.

Clinics will be back sooner or later..

Women will regain their rights..

The medievals will not prevail with their ignorance and repression..

Where was the Texas ballot?

Protecting fetuses, half of which presumably are female, and advocating for women to not engage in risky behavior is keeping women down, according to a blue state voter?

Gotcha!

Sophistry. Nobody buys this "argument".

abortion is illegal in the UK

Um, no.

Rape by state. No1 is Texas.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/232524/forcible-rape-cases-in-the-us-by-state/

Texas women not only have to fear being raped but are also prevented from having a termination.

Abortion should only be performed in rare cases like that or when the mothers life health-wise is in danger.

I'm sure rightists think this stance makes them look understanding or compassionate, but to me it reveals that they're not actually motivated by a sincere desire to protect the sanctity of life. After all, if one believes all life is precious, then that would extend to life that was brought about as the result of a crime. This is, in my opinion, about controlling what people do with their bodies.

It shouldn’t be performed after 15 weeks.

Does anyone really believe women would choose to carry around something they didn't want for 15 weeks? I don't. Abortions carried out later along in pregnancy are almost always due to medical necessity.

First of all, it was "Oh, we are not necessarily againt abortion (This is a bald-faced lie), we just think this case was wrongly decided and we want it sent back to the states (roll out innocent sounding bromides like "Government should govern close to the people" or "9 unelected justices shouldn't decide this." I won't even begin to deal with what utter hypocricy this is. )

So then the State of KS, where Republicans outnumber Democrats by a 59-41 margin in voter registration set up a constitutional referendum that was set up to pass. It was held during a primary, not a general election when participation is pretty much limited to party hard core activists. Furthermore, since it was a primary, only registered Republicans and Democrats could vote. Sorry, no votes for you, independents. Sorry. And the wording was intentionally vague. You had to vote NO to protect existing abortion rights.

In spite of the anti-choice's best efforts, the Red RED state of KS voted by a nearly 60-40 margin to tell them to stick it. Turn out for a primary exceeded general election turn out for the 2016 general election. And women,..... They were not amused. White women, minority women, rich women, poor women, urban women, rural women, .... They were particularly insensed at all these white men telling them that they don't have bodily autonomy. If such a ban would not pass in KS, it wouldn't pass in probably 40-45 states in the country.

So into this gigantic mess comes Senator Lindsey Graham who now advocates a national abortion ban at 15 weeks. Such a ban would apply to states like Kansas who made a concious decision to keep existing rights, but would NOT apply to states that decide to put more restrictions (AZ, MS, OK for example) in place.

So it was never really about Constitutional Law and a poorly decided case. It was never about States Rights and sending the decisions back to the states. The people in those states would choose choice which means they are OBVIOUSLY not qualified to govern themselves. It is about Religious (overwhelmingly Christian) extremists and their beholden GOP, and their willingness to use any lever to impose their morality upon others.

This has nothing to do with Constitutionalism. Most of these people don't know or understand the Constituion. This is about control.

The women's right to choose to be lawful nationwide.

bass4funk

   The women's right to choose to be lawful nationwide.

> That’s what they are doing?

How so? Terminations in Texas are banned from 6 weeks.

   when is an abortion late-term?

> After the 6th trimester.

Really? There is no 6th trimster. I know you are a man but please read up before posting.

   Pre-Trimester (preconception)

   First Trimester (1-12 weeks)

   Second Trimester (13-26 weeks)

   Third Trimester (27-42, up to delivery)

   Fourth Trimester (postpartum period)

   Fifth Pregnancy Trimester (going back to work)

   An embryo is not a baby.

> Semantics.

Medical science is not semantics. I did not decide those because like you, I am not a doctor or medical scientist.

   A fertilized embryo is not a human--

It’s not an alien, therefore it is developing in a woman’s body, so it is a human being.

Again that decision was made by the medical experts.

Yes, I’m pro-life.

And pro incest and rape?

Some states like Texas have banned abortions including incest and rape.

as far as Herschel Walker is concerned, no one knows for sure, I am not about to get it any gossip 

There's a signed check and a get well card. Walker is a hypocrite, along with many MAGAites. They simply use the abortion issue disingenuously to court the evangelic right, who are also often disingenuous about their concern for "babies".

Let’s not have another Herschel moment

as far as Herschel Walker is concerned, no one knows for sure, I am not about to get it any gossip about another person’s life. If we don’t have all the facts, as for being pro abortion, I have stated exactly where I stand.

I think your quote “I’m not buying that crap for one moment” is relevant here.

Remember when the far right were screaming "My Body, My Choice", when the COVID vaccinates were first announced....

Remember when they were ranting about "Big Government" telling them what to do WRT their medical health choices?

It appears the far right has forgotten those - as now Graham is championing a nationwide federal law banning abortion...

Repub Big Government stripping rights from women to control their own bodies...mandating forced motherhood...

What a bunch of hypocrites...

when is an abortion late-term?

After the 6th trimester.

What?

Surely that would be an alien??

doctors that think they know everything better or that we should follow the science

When it comes to medicine, I think most people would agree that doctors, you know, the people with degrees in medicine and years of study under their belt, do know better than Joe Average.

If you're not going to follow the science, who are you going to follow? Your own whims? Next time you need surgery, instead of asking a qualified physician to help you, maybe you should ask a friend with the same whims as you. Or do it yourself.

You can believe that crap if you want just don’t ask me to follow along.

Wow. We really have hit rock bottom when a poster refuses to accept well-established and universal medical terminology.

I think we have heard enough of doctors that think they know everything better or that we should follow the science and that they can’t be questioned or scrutinized? You can believe that crap if you want just don’t ask me to follow along.

Oh yes, let's ignore the science and to what the religious zealots want. Because that always goes so well.

Women with a deformed fetus must carry it to birth in states like Texas. Then what?

Go to a different state, but even in that case, they would be able to terminate a pregnancy, even in Texas.

Says the rich man with the means.

Human rights are not (at least should not be) dependent on the luck of the draw as to where women are born or live at the time of pregnancy, nor their economic means and ability to transit perhaps thousands of miles to exercise their rights.

the people in each state will vote on the issue and if they want it, they will allow it, if not, then go to a state that allows and supports it.

The GOP wants to outlaw abortion nationwide. Do you agree with that plan?

the medieval practice of killing babies.

So if you believe abortion is "killing babies", wouldn't you believe in criminalizing it at a federal level like murder in general? Abortion foes in the US have disingenuously used this "states rights" argument to go for a nationwide ban. Once the dog catches the car, it's going to start chasing another.

Did you agree with it being lawful nationwide?

Yes. This is a right that women have had for 50 years.

Abortion is health care. It's a women's right and a human right.

This isn't driving license or marriage age restrictions where regional differences are fine. This is about denying or granting women their rights.

That should not be about an accident of birth or wealth. Regardless of where they were born or reside, or how much money they have to "just move", all women should be allowed to exercise their basic human rights to health care.

If one does not think that this is a human right, then one fundamentally does not consider women to be equal to men.

bass4funk

If it's a baby, why do the medical profession, doctors, and scientists call it a fetus? What is the difference between a fetus and a baby? When does a fetus become a baby? When does an embryo become a fetus? Is an embryo a baby? When does the moment of human life begin?

 Higher brain structures only start to appear between weeks 12 and 16.

Women with a deformed fetus must carry it to birth in states like Texas. Then what?

Termination should be a decision made by a woman and her doctor.

--An embryo is not a baby.

Semantics.

No. Scientific terminology. Just as a tadpole is not a frog, and a sapling is not a tree.

It’s not an alien, therefore it is developing in a woman’s body, so it is a human being.

I'll ask you again. If you believe so strongly that life begins at conception (in your term, "cells coming together"), and that abortion is "killing babies", why do you allow for exceptions?

I agree, no arguments, go to the state that provides it.

So why do you agree with a nationwide abortion ban?

After the 6th trimester.

Are you using semantics again?

Which you have voiced your support for.

Yes, I’m pro-life

In some cases and and pro-abortion some cases.

Let’s not have another Herschel moment.

bass4funk

when is an abortion late-term?

An embryo is not a baby.

A fertilized embryo is not a human--it needs a uterus, and at least six months of gestation and development, growth and neuron formation, and cell duplication to become a human.

When does a fetus become a baby? 

From the moment the cells are coming together.

When does an embryo become a fetus?

Once a heartbeat is detected.

Sorry, I don't have a medical degree, I hope you can help me sort this out.

So the moment the cells (egg and sperm?) come together, that's a baby?

And when that clump of cells (the baby) develops enough to generate a detectable heartbeat some weeks later, it becomes a foetus?

So when is it an embryo? And when, after developing from egg-and-sperm to baby and back to foetus, does it become a baby again?

Yeah, you can believe what you want, so will I. Kudos!

This is what you get from homeschooling.

Sorry, an embryo is not a "baby". I don't care what you believe.

You can follow the masses, I don’t

By masses, you mean "the educated"

No one said anything about religion, you brought that up.

Yes I did. Because it is religious zealots and nobody else who are pushing this.

I'm embarrassed to live in Georgia. This is one of 3 top issues which will have me voting against the GOP this fall. Ballots should be coming in the next few weeks.

At 6 weeks, it isn't a baby. Perhaps around week 25, it could be called a human, but not before then. No brain and completely dependent on the mother to survive.

Liars need not run for election.

I'm embarrassed to live in Georgia.

I feel the same when it comes to California

And I am embarrassed for TX, the biggest number or rapes and resulting pregnancies, the most guns but cannot keep their actual born children safe from school shootings, and an AG who literally runs away from a lawful subpeona.

If it's a baby, why do the medical profession, doctors, and scientists call it a fetus?

I could care less what they call it. Most doctors don’t want to get political. Also, most doctors don’t believe in late term abortion.

Um, no but thanks for playing. They have different terms because they represent different levels of development. Embriyo, Fetus, and Baby are scientificially 3 different things.

That is why, Doctors, who are by definition practicioners of science, use those terms. It has nothing to do with politics.

That you don't know this does not make it less true.

Also, you do not know what "most doctors" believe or do not believe.

But ALL Doctors are requried under the hypocratic oath to do what is in their patents' best health interests constrained only by the patients' wishes or the law. "Belief" has nothing to do with it.

bass4funk

I think we have heard enough of doctors that think they know everything better or that we should follow the science and that they can’t be questioned or scrutinized? You can believe that crap if you want just don’t ask me to follow along.

There is only one reply for that but it will be deleted.

Remember when the far right were screaming "My Body, My Choice", when the COVID vaccinates were first announced....

No difference.

Exactly - no difference. You either control your body in consultation with your doctor or you don't....those women that live in Red States with radical extreme abortion laws don't...

Remember when they were ranting about "Big Government" telling them what to do WRT their medical health choices?

Thats the reason why the Supreme Court, government judicial branch took themselves out of the discourse and gave the rights back to the people as it always should have been.

Hmmmm.....so Big Government is wrong when it encourages vaccination but good when it outlaws abortion....

That sums up MAGA-world....

It appears the far right has forgotten those -

No, they have not.

Yes they have.... Per above, its either My Body, My Choice, or it isn't...

as now Graham is championing a nationwide federal law banning abortion...

He doesn’t speak for the entire GOP.

You disagree with his position? Think he's wrong?

Repub Big Government

We don’t have one

Ask the women in Texas and Florida about that....and Kansas...

The needed medical treatment should be available to all the citizens of a town, city, or state at a hospital not requiring extensive travel.

Should be available to all under universal healthcare.

Which states have put abortion on the ballot? Just six states. Measures were certified for the ballot in California, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Montana, and Vermont.

Abortion is health care. It's a women's right and a human right.

In the US, it is a matter to be decided by the voters in the individual States. Several would have a different opinion than you.

The voters of RED KS did exactly that, or were you not paying attention?

SUDDENLY a national abortion ban is in the cards because the voters cannot be trusted to ban it.

Human rights are not subject to the decisions of individual state legislatures.

And thre would not be 30 states disagreeing with me, there would be maybe 5. Utah, Mississippi, Alabama, Texas and Oklahoma.

The anti-choice opinion is by no means the majority opinion. It has never been the majority opinon.

This is not about Constitutionalism or States Rights. This is about control of women.

It really is that simple.

You can flip that argument about the medieval practice of killing babies.

Which you have voiced your support for.

More evidence of radical, extreme Repubs and their subservient Supreme Court stripping women of their basic human rights and forcing them into motherhood...just like in Iran and Afghanistan...

Let them back in power in Nov and we'll see more basic rights removed...and further destruction of our democracy...

Oh yes, let's ignore the science and to what the religious zealots want.

No one said anything about religion, you brought that up.

Wow. We really have hit rock bottom when a poster refuses to accept well-established and universal medical terminology.

You can follow the masses, I don’t. Not rock bottom, but you do not control the conversation or what people think, not to mention, there are so many medical opinions, just a reason why we need to confer all the different aspects to this topic

If it's a baby, why do the medical profession, doctors, and scientists call it a fetus?

I could care less what they call it. Most doctors don’t want to get political. Also, most doctors don’t believe in late term abortion.

What is the difference between a fetus and a baby? When does a fetus become a baby?

From the moment the cells are coming together.

When does an embryo become a fetus?

Once a heartbeat is detected.

Higher brain structures only start to appear between weeks 12 and 16.

Doesn't matter it’s a life forming.

Women with a deformed fetus must carry it to birth in states like Texas. Then what?

Go to a different state, but even in that case, they would be able to terminate a pregnancy, even in Texas.

The women's right to choose to be lawful nationwide.

That’s what they are doing?

when is an abortion late-term?

After the 6th trimester.

An embryo is not a baby.

Semantics.

A fertilized embryo is not a human--

It’s not an alien, therefore it is developing in a woman’s body, so it is a human being.

Um, no

Yes, and I vehemently disagree. 

That is why, Doctors, who are by definition practicioners of science, use those terms. It has nothing to do with politics. 

I think we have heard enough of doctors that think they know everything better or that we should follow the science and that they can’t be questioned or scrutinized? You can believe that crap if you want just don’t ask me to follow along.

That you don't know this

Oh, but I do

But ALL Doctors are requried under the hypocratic oath to do what is in their patents' best health interests

They should, but they often don’t.

There is only one reply for that but it will be deleted.

Don’t let your feelings hold you back.

I'm embarrassed to live in Georgia.

I feel the same when it comes to California

Remember when the far right were screaming "My Body, My Choice", when the COVID vaccinates were first announced....

No difference. They’re not bound and gagged, they can go to any state they want if they want to kill a baby.

Remember when they were ranting about "Big Government" telling them what to do WRT their medical health choices?

Thats the reason why the Supreme Court, government judicial branch took themselves out of the discourse and gave the rights back to the people as it always should have been.

It appears the far right has forgotten those -

No, they have not.

as now Graham is championing a nationwide federal law banning abortion...

He doesn’t speak for the entire GOP.

Repub Big Government

We don’t have one

NemoToday  11:30 am JST

Yes. This is a right that women have had for 50 years. 

And if 30 states outlawed it, would you complain about the 20 states where it would be legal?

Abortion is health care. It's a women's right and a human right.

In the US, it is a matter to be decided by the voters in the individual States. Several would have a different opinion than you.

This isn't driving license or marriage age restrictions where regional differences are fine. This is about denying or granting women their rights.

Some people believe a fetus should be protected everywhere.

If one does not think that this is a human right, then one fundamentally does not consider women to be equal to men.

Is that a law in a particular state?

Termination should be a decision made by a woman and her doctor.

I agree, no arguments, go to the state that provides it.

And pro incest and rape?

Abortion should only be performed in rare cases like that or when the mothers life health-wise is in danger. It shouldn’t be performed after 15 weeks.

Some states like Texas have banned abortions including incest and rape.

Then go to a state that allows baby killing.

There's a signed check and a get well card. Walker is a hypocrite, along with many MAGAites.

That’s not proof. Let them come out with medical records and see substantial proof, then we can unequivocally say this action transpired, other than that it’s just gossip, and I know liberals will jump quickly on any gossip.

The institute said more than 125,000 abortions were performed in 2020 in the 14 states where abortion is no longer available at all and another 41,000 in Georgia.

Hopefully people will think of their and other's health from now on in those states, and not act irresponsibly.

wallaceToday  12:20 pm JST

Termination should be a decision made by a woman and her doctor.

If you had the right to vote in the US, you would have a substantive say on this matter.

At the same time, abortion is illegal in the UK, so this concept does not seem so unique.

"Individuals who can no longer obtain an abortion from a clinic in these states are now forced to travel to another state for abortion care," Guttmacher said.

They are not forced to travel. They can stay where they are and give birth.

This issue is purely about the law. Embryo, fetus, baby--whatever, the fact is several states in the US have made abortion illegal. That's it.

Have a problem? Get out and push for legislation in your state, vote, move.

wallaceToday  12:41 pm JST

I know it hard for you to understand that JT is not the USA. We all have equal rights to post our opinions. If you are wanting just those with the vote then find another forum.

Do you understand this article concerns a US matter, and you can give your opinion, but you have no vote Z?

Clinics will be back sooner or later..

That’s what the Dobbs decision was all about, the people in each state will vote on the issue and if they want it, they will allow it, if not, then go to a state that allows and supports it.

Women will regain their rights..

They do, they were never denied, as well now as pro-lifers rights.

The medievals will not prevail with their ignorance and repression..

You can flip that argument about the medieval practice of killing babies.

Which you have voiced your support for.

Yes, I’m pro-life

Yes, backed by the fact that in some specific circumstances you are, in fact, pro-choice. 

No, I’m pro-life, as stated. Just because I outlined my stance on abortion and accept it only in the most dire circumstances doesn’t mean in anyway shape or form that I’m for it.

One cannot believe in the sanctity of life,

Yes, oh, definitely one can, there is no one you can make that determination as to who can and who can’t believe in the sanctity of life.

Well, that's your opinion

We all have opinions this is true.

but it isn't an argument. Do you have any idea how many children are already in need of a loving, stable family?

Yes, so we should just give up and kill them if we can’t find placement for them? Well, you can think like that, millions don’t. There always options besides killing an unborn child.

Texas women not only have to fear being raped but are also prevented from having a termination

They can travel to another state. And also that law is broadly taken out of context. You would be able to have an abortion in certain situations.

BusbyToday  10:30 am JST

Remember when the far right were screaming "My Body, My Choice", when the COVID vaccinates were first announced....

I don't recall, but was that issue about vaccinating fetuses?

In some cases and and pro-abortion some cases. 

Let’s not have another Herschel moment

as far as Herschel Walker is concerned, no one knows for sure, I am not about to get it any gossip about another person’s life. If we don’t have all the facts, as for being pro abortion, I have stated exactly where I stand.

51% of Texans have been denied their rights by the abortion law.

Go to another state by rights

The majority of Americans support abortions. 61% of Americans say abortion should be legal

With some restrictions, even conservatives like me have said this repeatedly.

plasticmonkeyToday  10:39 am JST

Sophistry. Nobody buys this "argument".

Except maybe some Supreme Court members, to begin with.

Those sophists,

plasticmonkeyToday  08:24 am JST

The GOP wants to outlaw abortion nationwide. Do you agree with that plan?

Did you agree with it being lawful nationwide?

Texas banned all abortion without a ballot. Voter suppression laws.

Now it matters to Dems?? So when it involves illegals, it’s irrelevant, but killing babies it’s unacceptable? Why? Huh?

The governor claims he will eliminate rapes, 14,000 cases last year. Texas is in the top spot, with more, reported rapes in 2020 than even California, the most populous state in the country.

With the out of countries police and DA corruption in California, I’m not buying that crap for one moment

I'm sure rightists think this stance makes them look understanding or compassionate, but to me it reveals that they're not actually motivated by a sincere desire to protect the sanctity of life.

Well, that’s your personal opinion as you said.

After all, if one believes all life is precious, then that would extend to life that was brought about as the result of a crime.

Again, that is your personal belief.

This is, in my opinion

Yes

Does anyone really believe women would choose to carry around something they didn't want for 15 weeks?

Again, I think 15 is the max that should be allowed and remember, there’s also adoption.

UChosePoorlyToday  09:44 am JST

Women just need to not get raped or have medical emergencies.

My original comment mentioned "people". This issue concerns both sexes.

And I'm digging up statistics to see how many of the 930,000+ abortions were performed because of medical emergencies; as for rape, there is no connection with abortion unless the woman became pregnant so . . .

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you are a guy.

Why would that matter?

UChosePoorlyToday  10:23 am JST

Painkiller - I want everyone who is eligible to participate in the voting process. I am in a deep blue state, so these anti-choice laws don't affect me and mine as much as those living in red states, but I still feel sorry for the mostly poorer and minority women (and some men too) whose lives are going to be impacted by these laws, and not for the better. Women of means will continue to do what they need to do as they did before Roe. Anyway, keep trying to keep women down and see where that gets you.

Protecting fetuses, half of which presumably are female, and advocating for women to not engage in risky behavior is keeping women down, according to a blue state voter?

Gotcha!

At least 66 clinics in 15 U.S. states have stopped performing abortions since the June Supreme Court ruling that overturned the constitutional right to the procedure, according to a report published on Thursday.

That's good to see those clinics are complying with the law.

At the core, that is what this abortion issue is all about--the law.

Simple and straight forward.

When the speed limits changed on federal highways, people adjusted their driving habits.

Now people just need to make adjustments with their behavior so as not to have to come in conflict with the laws.