7 killed, 15 wounded in Dutch mall shooting

A man armed with a machine gun

Its highly unlikely that the shooter had "a machine gun"; most of the news outlet are saying "automatic weapon", which is not exactly the same thing. I'd guess the guy had an assault rifle.

Another sad gun story. Opps, man with gun story... person with gun story... person with weapon story... sad story... It was a sunny day.

Its highly unlikely that the shooter had "a machine gun"; most of the news outlet are saying "automatic weapon", which is not exactly the same thing. I'd guess the guy had an assault rifle.

Jeez, does it matter?

Yes it does matter to someone who knows anything about firearms if it was a machine gun, assault rifle, submachine gun, automatic pistol, etc.... To report an assault rifle attack as a "machine gun" attack would be like reporting a box cutter as a samurai sword.

Both an assault rifle and a submachine gun are automatic weapons - "machine guns" in the common venacular. An assault rifle has selective fire - it can be switched between semi-automatic and full automatic. Other machine guns only fire in full auto.

What everybody seems to be missing is that the latest tragedies have happened in countries with strict laws banning weapons, licensing others, etc. Maybe the laws don't stop the kooks?

"The rampage ended when the attacker shot himself in the head"

Couldn't Tristan van der Vlis have just shot himself in the head without killing amd wounding these other people?

"He was just shooting everywhere, as if it were the Wild West."

Had to take that potshot at the U.S., eh?

Both an assault rifle and a submachine gun are automatic weapons - "machine guns" in the common venacular. An assault rifle has selective fire - it can be switched between semi-automatic and full automatic. Other machine guns only fire in full auto

True, but if what's the story says is actually true, that he had a permit for the weapon used in the killings, then it can't have been a machine gun, or it would have to be one that has the ability to fire in full auto removed (nothing that can't be undone of course) because no way he would have gotten a permit for it otherwise.

What everybody seems to be missing is that the latest tragedies have happened in countries with strict laws banning weapons, licensing others, etc. Maybe the laws don't stop the kooks?

So true an also so sad. People doing these kind of weird things or any other kind of "work" requiring a gun can get them anywhere without problem. The only people NOT being able to get them are the ones that won't use them for anything else then having a little fun in the backyard. There's no law that can ban guns entirely; they will always be used for things that are by itself already forbidden by law anyway.....

Maybe the laws don't stop the kooks?

So why not get rid of all laws? Let the kooks rule!!!

Do speeding laws stop you from going over the limit? Not calling you a kook, but you know what I mean. And I know what you mean, guns for all will lead to a peaceful society where everyone knows their place.

ca1ic0cat, the press should strive for accuracy, not the common vernacular or layman's terms. "Automatic weapon" is easy enough to understand.

Maybe the laws don't stop the kooks?

Sounds like: Maybe the laws don't stop ALL the kooks?

Of course not! But if 99 percent of kooks are stopped, its a good thing! But I am afraid that no matter what is done, a few kooks are going to go on a rampage, so get used to it.

True, but if what's the story says is actually true, that he had a permit for the weapon used in the killings, then it can't have been a machine gun, or it would have to be one that has the ability to fire in full auto removed (nothing that can't be undone of course) because no way he would have gotten a permit for it otherwise.

Oh, it's entirely possible. I just find the lack of distinction grating, as it is a common mistatke made by journalists; I perfer a degree accuracy in my news reporting.

To expand on that:

Nobody knows yet exactly what kind of firearm was used. Thus to report it as a "machinegun" (even if it turns out later to be so) is sloppy reporting. Guns violence and gun control are important and controversial issues. It behooves us to be as accurate with the facts a possible.

Alright,it is so sad that youngsters are getting involved in this kinda crimes.God bless everyone.

Nobody knows yet exactly what kind of firearm was used

The term machine gun was used by a witness and the media reported this. The media initially also reported the mother of the shooter had been killed, which was not true.

This incident is shocking proof strict gun control cannot protect everyone all of the time.

This incident is shocking proof strict gun control cannot protect everyone all of the time.

What would be shocking is if anyone seriously expected to be protected all of the time by gun control. Its like getting rid of your bullet proof vest because you might get hit by a car anyway.

What would be shocking is if anyone seriously expected to be protected all of the time by gun control. Its like getting rid of your bullet proof vest because you might get hit by a car anyway.

I appreciate this intelligent analysis.

This incident is shocking proof strict gun control cannot protect everyone all of the time.

This is funny. As if anyone promoting gun control would make that claim.

The fact is that strict gun control laws, assuming you have a civil society, would see far fewer gun deaths than those societies which support the policy that anyone who wants a gun can have one.

This is funny. As if anyone promoting gun control would make that claim.

It isn't funny and I certainly was not making 'that claim'. Perhaps we speak a different language.

The fact is that strict gun control laws, assuming you have a civil society, would see far fewer gun deaths than those societies which support the policy that anyone who wants a gun can have one.

Civil society? You aren't talking about America are you?

Moderator: Readers, America is not relevant to this discussion.

“You hear about this sort of thing happening at American schools and you think that’s a long way away,” said Rob Kuipers, 50, a project manager. “Now it’s happened here in the Netherlands.”

Woot?? This gun-happy MADNESS has reached Holland's shores? This is a huge EYE OPENER. I expect to see more of this stuff in other 'peaceful' European nations. With the video game industry raking in over $12+ BILLION a year, something's gotta give. Why? Too many 'shoot em up' games.

correction...need to do more,for the young people in trouble.

The term machine gun was used by a witness and the media reported this.

...and? You expect the witness to understand the difference between an assault rifle and a machine gun? Then the media just picks that up an uses the term verbatum?

If you are being shot at it doesn't really matter if it is an M16 machine gun or a semi-auto AR-15. This insistence that a distinction be made is ridiculous. The Dutch media is explicitly stating that it was a "fully automatic rifle". If you have evidence that it wasn't, other than your "guess", than provide it. And then coherently state what difference it would make to the dead.

Machine gun != fully automatic rifle

And of course it doesn't make a difference to the dead. But it might make a very big difference to the living who have to decide on how they want to restrict gun ownership.

For the living, the distinction between semi-auto and full auto firearms has already already made in firearm laws and the applicable restrictions on ownership.

Wonderful that everyone has a solution. These incidents are like inkblot tests at JT. With a bare minimum of facts, everybody trots out their solution to the "problem." And that problem and solution is always a rehash of whatever that persons previous opinions are. Sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes we don't know the reason. Sometimes we know the reason, but there isn't anything we can reasonably do about it. So take your pick or feel free to add your own. This slaughter was cause by:

Too much gun control. Too little gun control. Lack of moral and religious upbringing. Religious extremism. Violent video games. Lack of any way to express anger and hostility. Societal alienation. Oppressive societal mores. Bullying. Boredom. High gas prices. George Bush. Multiculturalism. Globalization. Small town life in Holland. Windmill syndrome. ...or my favorite: The guy was nuts, and sometimes people just go nuts. The guy was nuts. Of course, we are all free to offer a diagnosis not based on the facts, but based on our favorite political opinion.