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Authorities call fatal stabbing of UK lawmaker terrorist act

52 Comments
By JO KEARNEY and JILL LAWLESS

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Very sad. Sir David was one of the good ones. RIP

17 ( +19 / -2 )

Absolutely horrific. It appears it is terror related, the anti terrorism squad have taken over the investigation.

17 ( +17 / -0 )

It's foolish to speculate on these things before we get actual evidence.

-7 ( +9 / -16 )

While the arrested man is of Somali origin, there is as yet no evidence as to his motives. The police investigation is in a very early stage. No doubt further information as to his motives will be garnered from his computer/phone etc.

Very concerning, these open surgeries held by MP’s are a fundamental part of our democratic system, MP’s must be accessible to their constituents.

His family will be devastated, heartbreaking.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Another tragic attack on democracy and the British system of members of parliaments meeting their constituents.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

It's foolish to speculate on these things before we get actual evidence.

Who is speculating? It’s being investigated as a terrorism related. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58930593

15 ( +17 / -2 )

Shocking and so tragic.

From all accounts, he was highly respected and much liked.

Two other British lawmakers have been attacked over the past two decades during their “surgeries,” regular meetings where constituents can present concerns and complaints.

I was puzzled by the ‘Surgeries’ part, now it’s clear.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

The murderer/assassin is a 25-year-old Somali man.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/15/conservative-mp-david-amess-stabbed-multiple-times-surgery-church1/

6 ( +12 / -6 )

The security forces are investigating if it was a terrorist attack.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

A second senseless homicidal attack on an MP , a terrible tragedy for his grieving family, and a symptom of the strain on the national psyche brought about by the heavy toll of Covid and the consequences of Brexit on the population, affecting first the mentally deranged who might be viewed as the canaries in society's cage. This murder will darken further the mood of the UK that may already be entering its "Weimar" period of social and political turbulence.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Sky News

Metropolitan Police has confirmed the fatal stabbing of Conservative MP Sir David Amess in Leigh-on-Sea in Essex has been declared as a terrorist incident with the investigation being led by counter-terrorism policing

8 ( +8 / -0 )

u_s__reamer you have the a stomach churning reprehensible audacity, before even Conservative MP Sir David Amess family have begun any grieving process to politicly weaponize his tragic death.

I will quote you,

A symptom of the strain on the national psyche brought about by the heavy toll of Covid and the consequences of Brexit on the population......Your own words you actually believe such nonsense.

There has been no reported suggestion that either Covid or Brexit, bears any relation to Conservative MP Sir David Amess death.

David Amess: MP’s killing declared a terrorist incident

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/15/counter-terrorism-police-take-over-inquiry-into-david-amess-killing

Despicable, contemptible sordid behaviour!!!!

How can you stoop so low?.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

 brought about by the heavy toll of Covid and the consequences of Brexit on the population, 

Guess what? Most of the developed countries, including Japan, are dealing with the "heavy toll of Covid" and "consequences" of the global supply-chain crunch "on the population." The Japanese, for example, are bringing in the Taiwanese to make semiconductors amid a global shortage.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

It is a tragedy. It sounds like a cliche to say that this is a strike against democracy itself, but that’s truly what it is. And of course Sir David was a human being as well as a politician, and leaves behind a grieving family, friends and colleagues. RIP, and if the terrorist explanation is correct, another wake-up call in the fight against political and ideological violence.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

@ itsonlyrocknroll

Admittedly, my post is all speculation, but that is all anyone can do at this point. I have since heard the perpetrator is of Somali origin and may have been politically motivated so it looks like a terrorist incident, which does not invalidate my inference that, ruling out a personal connection to the victim, no murder of a politician or public figure occurs in a vacuum, ie., political motives always lurk in the background, but so does mental derangement. Why this particular politician was targeted remains to be seen; it may have been planned or a random act. There is no doubt in my mind that the people of the UK have been suffering under great strain from all the myriad consequences of Covid , Brexit, and the egregious incompetence and gross irresponsibility of the "despicable, contemptible" political class who, with their callous, inhumane policies, have on a regular basis stooped even lower than I have with my "wild" speculations.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Well stated, u_s__reamer, i was not attacking you personally just questioning you referral to brexit or covid.

There is little doubt that UK is suffering from a political vacuum. All of this is for a future thread.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

UK media outlets, citing sources, reported that the man is believed to be a British national with Somali heritage.

Notice the lengths they go to to avoid saying "A Somali Immigrant"

Tick-tock, tick tock....

5 ( +12 / -7 )

@ itsonlyrocknroll

Thanks for your understanding. I was merely trying to put this killing in a context deeper than just a superficial kneejerk "act of terrorism" trope that stops people from thinking any further about the personal circumstances of the assassin driving him to this heinous deed. I feel the deepest sympathy for Mr Amess's bereaved wife and five children. No offense was intended and I hope we're still JT "friends".

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Now declared a lone terrorist attack.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

”Mental issues” no doubt.

Time to sing Dont Look Back in Anger and make heart signs again.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

It is not a coincidence that Somalians are at a higher risk of carrying out these acts than others.

Having a right to remain in the UK or a UK passport does not dispel a lack of socialisation.

In 2021, it is all too easy to become a UK citizen and receive a UK passport.

Stable employment, a work history and a multiple choice test will do that.

Refugees may even find these requirements to be waived.

Somalia is a country which is unlike the UK and has more in common with Saudi Arabia.

The law is Sharia in Somalia.

However, the problem is much worse.

Not only is anarchy the norm in Somalia, there is also a problem of clan loyalty which pits its own citizens violently against each other.

Children are recruited as soldiers by all groups vying for power-violence is the order of the day.

It is little wonder that violent acts are committed by some immigrants in the UK coming from such a background.

With little education and traumatic childhoods, the risk of control by nefarious actors is high.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Shocking news, the second time in five years a British MP has been murdered by an extremist. Other plots to murder politicians have also been foiled by the police and anti-terrorist squads during that time.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

kurisurpisu

It is not a coincidence that Somalians are at a higher risk of carrying out these acts than others.

The attacker was born in the UK and knows nothing about Somalia. The worse terrorist attacks have all been the IRA.

The bombing in Manchester by a terrorist killing 23. The bomber was Salman Ramadan Abedi, a 22-year-old local man of Libyan ancestry.

Terrorism in Great Britain: the statistics. House of Commons Library. 14 Oct. 2021

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7613/CBP-7613.pdf

There is a security list of about 25,000 people but due to lack of manpower, there are only about 3,000 with constant surveillance.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

bob

Now declared a lone terrorist attack.

Add it to the list of 35000+ "lone wolf" Islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11.

Wrong again. There have not been 35000+ lone wolf Islamic terrorist attacks in the UK.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Horrible news.

This attacker and the attacker of Jo Cox would probably have attacked each other, given half the chance. Probably extremists on opposite sides of the spectrum.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The British seem determined to import the world's problems upon themselves. Is this some kind of twisted atonement for a perceived original sin of being born a WASP, or is it the hubristic liberal ideal that the developing world will naturally embrace our enlightened values?

British society is disintegrating right before their eyes.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

British society is disintegrating right before their eyes.

Rubblish!

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

bob

Now declared a lone terrorist attack.

Add it to the list of 35000+ "lone wolf" Islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11.

Wrong again. There have not been 35000+ lone wolf Islamic terrorist attacks in the UK.

Fascinating statement for 2 reasons.

I never mentioned the UK. You know as well as I do its a global figure.

You see nothing wrong with 35000+

British society is disintegrating right before their eyes.

Rubblish!

Zichi is correct in this case. the correct term is "disintegrated" and "has"

2 ( +7 / -5 )

bobToday  09:47 am JST

UK media outlets, citing sources, reported that the man is believed to be a British national with Somali heritage.

Notice the lengths they go to to avoid saying "A Somali Immigrant"

Tick-tock, tick tock....

If he's 25 and a UK citizen then he may not be an 'immigrant'. Somalia had been in a multifaceted civil war thruout the 80s and the dictator Siad Barre was deposed in early 1991. That was over 30 years ago. So the assailant may have been born in the UK.

Somalia is a country which is unlike the UK and has more in common with Saudi Arabia.

The law is Sharia in Somalia.

However, the problem is much worse.

Not only is anarchy the norm in Somalia, there is also a problem of clan loyalty which pits its own citizens violently against each other.

Children are recruited as soldiers by all groups vying for power-violence is the order of the day.

Somalia for all purposes has ceased to exist. After Siad Barre was deposed Somalia descended into anarchy and it's been a Humpty-Dumpty since. Various clan warlords are fighting each other there. How can Sharia be the law there when there is no law to speak of in Somalia? That's what anarchy is. The UN sent a peacekeeper force there in late 1992 and in 1993 the US got sucked into an ugly urban guerilla war. In 1995 the UN peacekeepers left, this 'nation-building' plan was a total bust. And Somalian pirates have plagued the shores and out in the indian Ocean. Pirates have no authorities outside of themselves and they have menaced everyone they could.

It is little wonder that violent acts are committed by some immigrants in the UK coming from such a background. With little education and traumatic childhoods, the risk of control by nefarious actors is high.

That's the hateful rhetoric that Trump used and he turned out to be a greater terrorist threat than any or all immigrants put together. The ISIS ideology has drawn people from all over the world into its ranks. This assailant may be a 'lone wolf' or maybe not. Nonetheless this is a morbid disgusting act.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

bob

bob

Now declared a lone terrorist attack.

Add it to the list of 35000+ "lone wolf" Islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11.

Wrong again. There have not been 35000+ lone wolf Islamic terrorist attacks in the UK.

Fascinating statement for 2 reasons.

I never mentioned the UK. You know as well as I do its a global figure.

The post and article are actually about an attack in the UK. Nothing about global terrorist attacks

You see nothing wrong with 35000+

Not the figure for the UK.

British society is disintegrating right before their eyes.

Rubblish!

Zichi is correct in this case. the correct term is "disintegrated" and "has"

British society has not disintegrated as much as you might wish it had.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

The post and article are actually about an attack in the UK. Nothing about global terrorist attacks

You see nothing wrong with 35000+

Not the figure for the UK.

um...yeah. thats what I just explained. Global figures.

I think pudding and a nap better come early today.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

The attacker was born in the UK and knows nothing about Somalia.

I would appreciate a link to his bio stating that.

How is it known that the attacker knows nothing of Somalia?

What the attackers knows or doesn’t know, believes or doesn’t believe is not public knowledge at present.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

kurisupisuToday  11:34 am JST

*The attacker was born in the UK and knows nothing about Somalia. *

I would appreciate a link to his bio stating that.

How is it known that the attacker knows nothing of Somalia?

What the attackers knows or doesn’t know, believes or doesn’t believe is not public knowledge at present.

That is now very easy for you. Turn on your TV. BBC/ITV/Channel 4/ Sky. They are all reporting the same. Many children of immigrants born in the UK have never visited the countries of their parents.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

The British seem determined to import the world's problems upon themselves. Is this some kind of twisted atonement for a perceived original sin of being born a WASP, or is it the hubristic liberal ideal that the developing world will naturally embrace our enlightened values?

I don’t think it was a ‘liberal’ idea. Your idea seems closer to the neocon idea of everyone wants to live in free, democratic societies. This was part of the hubris which led to the disasters in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The British idea of ‘multiculturalism’ was an idea that people from different cultures should not be forced into ‘Britishness’ ( that concept was never clearly defined ). People should not be pressured to live or believe as the native population do. I can remember the former Tory PM Cameron extolling this idea.

There are many who believed this approach has failed and created isolated pockets of groups in society rather than integration.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Comparing Islamic militants to the ira is a false comparison. The ira and the udf etc were made up of locally recruited members, not radicalized 2nd of third generation youth who have never even set foot in their parents motherland.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

samuraivunyl

Comparing Islamic militants to the ira is a false comparison. The ira and the udf etc were made up of locally recruited members, not radicalized 2nd of third generation youth who have never even set foot in their parents motherland.

Any discussion of terrorism in the UK should include the IRA and UDF. On the mainland the IRA have made the deadliest bomb attacks. Some I experienced when living in London. Both the IRA and UDF radicalized their youth into hating their opponents.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Mr Kipling

Not all immigrants are good people. 

Nor all British nationals. There are many on the extreme right-wing filled with hate and anger.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

So sad. I condemn all forms of violent terrorism, no matter the perpetrators, no matter the method.

But...We were earlier talking around here about how the press never seem to "follow up" on terror-related incidents, particularly if a certain form of religion is involved. Some were skeptical.

Well, now that it's been confirmed that the "bow and arrow" attacker who murdered 5 in Norway...yes, was a convert to a certain form of religion, and yes, he was known to have been "radicalized" prior to the horrific attack...(somehow the "authorities" didn't do anything about that "radicalized" individual before it was too late...why?)

Well guess what?...

...there's nothing about that here at JT! Zero follow-up from any media source. Hmm...wanna bet that this incident, too, will somehow fail to find a follow-up report here...should the aggressor too belong to a certain form of religion?? I'd bet money on it!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Zichi

That is now very easy for you. Turn on your TV. BBC/ITV/Channel 4/ Sky. They are all reporting the same. Many children of immigrants born in the UK have never visited the countries of their parents.

That the attacker was of Somali heritage?

I find nothing in the news to suggest that the attacker was or was not born in the UK.

Not that really means anything these days.

Furthermore, I have not read anything that suggests the attacker had not visited Somalia

Whether that is pertinent or not has yet to be discovered.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

There are many on the extreme right-wing filled with hate and anger.

Don’t underestimate low IQ, unbalanced temperament and a pathology for conspiracy theories which can lead to completely unhinged behaviour.

This is often apparent when you listen to the far-right.

Those are the target audience for the extremists

The broader question of what drives extremists is an interesting one. For the far-right, the factors of low IQ, unbalanced temperaments and a weakness for conspiracy theories are very noticeable. Also, they are primarily driven by fear. With jihadis, if we look at the 9/11 attackers, they were not the kind of fear-filled morons I just described. Many were highly educated.

I hold out hope for neuroscience.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

It was in a church as well, a particularly conspicuous choice eh.

This happened in France too

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@ Starpunk

I’d wager that the overwhelming number of Somalians are Muslims-at least the women in the UK that I see, seem to all cover their heads and bodies in accordance with the teachings found in the Koran which espouses modesty.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Awful news. Twice in five years. The British voting system has many problems, but one advantage of first-past-the-post voting is that it makes the elected responsible for their constituents, and like Jo Cox, Amess was killed at a regular meeting with his. Such meetings are a vital part of what democracy there is in the UK. It was democracy that gave the killers the access to get at both MPs, and it will be a secondary tragedy if such access has to be limited or curtailed for MPs' safety.

RIP

2 ( +3 / -1 )

kurisupisu

@ Starpunk

I’d wager that the overwhelming number of Somalians are Muslims-at least the women in the UK that I see, seem to all cover their heads and bodies in accordance with the teachings found in the Koran which espouses modesty.

When you see women wearing a burqa how do know their nationality? How do you even know they are women?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The British voting system has many problems, but one advantage of first-past-the-post voting is that it makes the elected responsible for their constituents, and like Jo Cox, Amess was killed at a regular meeting with his. Such meetings are a vital part of what democracy there is in the UK. It was democracy that gave the killers the access to get at both MPs, and it will be a secondary tragedy if such access has to be limited or curtailed for MPs' safety.

The neo-Nazi paedophile Jack Renshaw was arrested in 2017 before he could carry out his planned murder of Labour MP Rosie Cooper with a Roman short sword he'd bought for the purpose. He also intended to murder a police detective before committing "suicide by cop."

Given the two murders and Rosie Cooper's close call, it's clear there will have to be changes in MP security at these meetings with constituents.

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-44798649

1 ( +1 / -0 )

HitoBito:

But...We were earlier talking around here about how the press never seem to "follow up" on terror-related incidents, particularly if a certain form of religion is involved. Some were skeptical.

Well guess what?...

...there's nothing about that here at JT! Zero follow-up from any media source. Hmm...wanna bet that this incident, too, will somehow fail to find a follow-up report here...should the aggressor too belong to a certain form of religion?? I'd bet money on it!

Don't be ridiculous. Of course the media are following up that story. I just read that news this morning in two of today's major Australian newspapers, one centre-left, one Murdoch.

Islamic terrorism is BIG news worldwide, left or right-wing, because it poses a problem to everyone. And a worthy publication though it is, JT is just a small news aggregator in a large media pond. They can't follow up on everything. And your claim begs the question - if the media isn't reporting on the Norway killer, how and where did you hear about it?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

ignorant scum giving islam and muslims a bad name.

ive been reading the quran and hadeeth everday for over 50 years and never felt like harming anyone.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

fulaan

ive been reading the quran and hadeeth everday for over 50 years and never felt like harming anyone.

That is great, however this is not about "feeling". Shariah law states very clearly how those who violate its laws must be punished.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

fulaanToday  02:11 pm JST

ignorant scum giving islam and muslims a bad name.

ive been reading the quran and hadeeth everday for over 50 years and never felt like harming anyone.

Interesting that you seem to be so devout but you don't refer to the book correctly as the Holy Quran.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Interesting that you seem to be so devout but you don't refer to the book correctly as the Holy Quran.

It seems to me that fulaan's point is that the vast majority of devout Muslims do not commit murder, either of people en masse or of individuals.

fulaan is absolutely and unarguably correct on that point.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

zichiToday  12:08 pm JST

Mr Kipling

There are many on the extreme right-wing filled with hate and anger.

There will be a few more now after this killing.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

zichiToday  11:06 am JST

There is a security list of about 25,000 people but due to lack of manpower, there are only about 3,000 with constant surveillance.

If they are radical enough to require constant surveillance then they should, IMO, be rounded up and deported.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

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