Brexit bedlam: May's EU withdrawal deal crushed by 230 votes in parliament

Many opponents of Brexit hope May's defeat will ultimately lead to another referendum on EU membership, though Brexiteers say that thwarting the will of the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit could radicalise much of the electorate.

Screw that, if I were able to vote I would be calling for another referendum as the first one did not, to me anyway looking from afar, give the people enough information to make an educated choice!

Now that the reality of what the future may look like without being in the EU is coming closer, and people have more details, they can make a better choice!

"The EU will see that it must now offer better terms to the UK. If it does not, we must leave to trade on WTO terms."

Better terms are remaining in the EU.

The UK can’t have the EU cake and eat it too.

Superb news, another step to not leaving the EU. Here’S to the People’s Vote being “allowed” and the whole omnishambles being consigned to the dustbin of history. The exiters voted against the wrong entity in the first place, it is the UK govt that they needed to get rid off, change, demand of, not the EU.

Ordo ab Chao - Order out of Chaos.

No deal Brexit. The people have spoken and want to leave the socialist EU. Replace May with Boris Johnson.

Did anybody in the UK really think that leaving the EU wouldn't be a mess ?

People got what they wanted. Sorry, not sorry.

Can't cancel Brexit without changing the law, that won't get through Parliament at the moment. I can see the UK getting an extension of Article 50 to get more time to try and sort out this sorry mess.

Replace May with Boris Johnson.

You think this is a good idea at the moment but Johnson would flip to the remain camp in a heartbeat if it serves his interests.

The rejection of this deal gives the UK a second chance to think things over. I hope there will be a second referendum and that they will invoke article 50 to stop the Brexit.

When the first one was held, the British people did not know who was behind Brexit, or what the consequences of it would be. Now the British people are better able to make an informed decision. The only reason for anyone to oppose a second referendum is their fear that Brexit will be overturned by the true will of the people.

I don't think that this means that the UK will remain. Listening to various sources it seems that the idea of a second referendum is not on the cards, as both leavers and remainers feel that this would undermine british democracy. I'm not stating my personal opinion on this subject- just what I'm hearing from the various news sources.

What's mostly going to happen is a no deal brexit. I don't think its the end of the world, but I am mostly concerned with the Ireland problem. That has the potential to really explode. Then again, we could see a last minute reaching out by the EU with a deal that might be acceptable to the UK; I did wrongly predict that NAFTA was dead in the water and it was salvaged at the last minute so who knows?

Anything but Boris.

This is terrible. But it could be also an opportunity, a possibility to have a second referendum. It could be also a moment for a new leader. UK needs more freedom but leaving EU is not a good solution.

People who voted Remain and still don't want to leave the EU:

"This news is fantastic, Brexit can finally be cancelled! Surely No-Deal can not be a viable option!"

People who voted Leave and still want to:

"Parliament is made up of 75% Remainers. They will never allow Brexit to happen."

I agree with Aly, I don't think the UK will end up remaining. Concerning what to do next, only 8% of Brits want another referendum. Also, 47% think it would be undemocratic to have a second vote (as opposed to 39%).

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/01/15/mps-prepare-brexit-vote-where-do-britons-stand

Ultimately, either Parliament (majority Remainers) will win or the people (majority Leavers) will.

I am very happy to hear this. I am convinced the original vote was manipulated by Putin in order to drive a wedge into Europe, the same way he manipulated the U.S. presidential election.

For pete's sake, UK, do a second referendum already!

Unbelievable that May can survive these repeated crushing defeats but then again, no one in their right mind would want to be PM at the moment.

I am not British, but I have a large number of British friends, on both sides of this issue.

Interestingly, not one of them has changed their mind since the referendum. My friends who are Brexiteers remain passionately pro-Brexit and my Remainer friends are now convinced more than ever that Remain needs to somehow happen.

Here is the thing my Brexiteer friends say.

-- They don't need to be "more educated" on the ramifications of Brexit. They say that this arrogant condescension from Remainers.

-- Brexit is about the UK regaining full national sovereignty so that British voters then have full control over their affairs through the democratic process. Period.

-- They say that the fear mongering associated with a hard Brexit is the same fear mongering that accompanied the lead-up to the referendum. Virtually all of which was unfounded.

-- The idea that a hard Brexit will lead to a catastrophe for the UK is absolute garbage. In fact, the UK will be just fine. There will be transitional issues, but under WTO rules, it will be manageable. But even if they are major issues, they point out that the UK has endured hardships before to protect its national sovereignty.

-- Finally, they note that the entity that WILL face hardship is the EU. Without the UK's contributions to the EU budget, the EU has some major problems.

Obviously those favoring Remain are fighting hard to overturn the referendum vote and what angers my Brexiteer friends more than anything is the sheer brazenness and hypocrisy of the Remainers. As if the Remainers would allow this if the situation was reversed.

It shall be interesting to see how this plays out in the UK. Truly a historic moment, regardless of how it unfolds.

I am British and I want to leave the EU! Not with Boris though.

I am convinced the original vote was manipulated by Putin in order to drive a wedge into Europe, the same way he manipulated the U.S. presidential election.

The Russians and the data mining group SCL, paid for by some of Britain's richest businessmen. You should watch this:

https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/peopleandpower/2018/12/paid-brexit-181213033234352.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-campaign-arron-banks-jeremy-hosking-five-uk-richest-businessmen-peter-hargreaves-a7699046.html

It's a scam, a fraud and a cheat.

This is going go get very weird and worse before it gets better. But I have no idea what is going to happen now.

CrazyJoeToday 09:09 am JST

I am very happy to hear this. I am convinced the original vote was manipulated by Putin in order to drive a wedge into Europe, the same way he manipulated the U.S. presidential election.

I am seriously thinking that there is manipulation coming from more than Russia in breaking the EU, US is also a good player. I keep repeating it but seeing what Bannon is doing in the light these days is just crazy, this guy should be kicked out somehow.

No deal Brexit. The people have spoken and want to leave the socialist EU. Replace May with Boris Johnson.

This ill-judged comment sums up exactly what has happened to my country.

By "the people" you mean 52% and lets just forget the other 48% including most of Scotland.

Where is Johnson then? Where has he been ever since he stirred the pot with Farage? May inherited this mess from Cameron (and Johnson and Farage) and at least she had the will to try to deal with it. I give her that.

Johnson will never take leadership of the Tories - too much like hard work.

The referendum has already given a majority to the leavers-another vote would be and is unnecessary.

The EU is an undemocratic and a wasteful institution to which the UK is a net contributor.Also, it is of course, a contradiction to the democratic process when the unelected minority make rules which impact the majority-nobody in the UK signed up for that!

It is the EU’s loss when the UK leaves.

On a more abstract level, it is interesting that so many countries are currently governed by those passionately opposed to issues but who offer no solutions.

As difficult and controversial as it may be, the Brits should probably vote on this issue again just to be doubly sure that this is what they really, truly want to do.

Tangerine

Highly selective cherry picking of info in your own link again. The 8% for a referendum was on the question of remain vs deal, which was never realistic and clearly isn't now that the deal is well and truly dead. And you failed to mention that the most popular option in your poll was no Brexit at all.

The whole Brexit argument was build on the lie that the UK could 'have its cake and eat it', since utterly exposed. General elections regularly reverse the results of their predecessors so it's illogical to say that a second referendum would be anti-democratic when in fact it would be exactly the opposite. Brexiters are afraid of another vote because they think they would lose, now that the true horrors of Brexit are known.

Theresa May's Government, cabinet and UK parliamentary establishment have colluded, schemed, with the European Commissions Council of Minsters, it institutions,European Court of Justice, parliament and negotiators to orchestrate, conspire through deceit, and subterfuge and reverse the UK electorate democratic wish to exit the European Union.

Every step of the way, week in week out. the people of the UK have been subject to threats, demands, insults and humiliation.

The electorate only has to view the European councils negotiation strategy and guidelines. Not an ounce of sincerity, the final straw a blatant attempt to politically and economically weaponise the Irish backstop and Good Friday Agreement.

European Council (Art. 50) guidelines for Brexit........

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/04/29/euco-brexit-guidelines/pdf

Seventeen million voters are not going to just disappear, a rigged second referendum, with either a choice between May's deal or Remain, or a vague convoluted, preference/alternative vote could, I am convinced, will open a political pandora's box punctuated by open hostility.

Yet this whole crooked charade, treacherous masquerade will conclude in an extension to Article 50 followed a second referendum, a faithless fraudulent people vote.

Well the time frame for passing legislation for such a referendum could amount to a year or more.

There could well be legal challenges to overcome. And the UK would quite rightly be voting to send a new batch of MEP's into the European Parliament.

I can think of seventeen million reasons those MEP's will be utter poison to any future European Parliament.

The remain vote failed because of incompetent disastrous campaigning strategy. No more on less. No more excuses.

@theeastisred

I don't think you have read the article carefully.

The 8% for a referendum was on the question of remain vs deal

No it wasn't. Please read it again.

According to the poll, 28% want to Remain. However, 22% are for a No-Deal Leave, and 15% are for May's Deal and Leave. That's a total of 37% supporting Leave. Because May's Deal is no longer an option, it is more probable that those who supported her deal, will move to a No-Deal if there is no other choice. It can also not be assumed that 9% who said "seek new negotiations" would support Remain. They could just as likely support Leave if there are no new negotations. But in any permutation, the numbers stack up against Remain.

The political system at work, British politics at its best, hahaha, the Euro politicians are laughing their socks off, so much arrogance from the euro politicians, they had no intention of a Brexit happening, they see this as a win for them, losing the UK's contribution would have put a big hole in their bloated budget. Me, I'm just sitting on the fence, but from where I sit, the UK had a better position remaining in and having a strong negotiation seat at the table, to be able to bring change to the Euro parliament, not only for the UK but for those other members who are dissatisfied . Cameron and his team disgraced themselves and let down the UK citizens, Brexit referendum was held among lies and fear mongering by all parties, so the blame for this mess lies with all those parties and politicians. Once again it has been proven you can't buck the system. As I said I'm just sitting on the fence, but since Brexit, my UK pension has lost 30% value on the exchange rate, and because I live in Japan, I am not entitled to the annual inflation adjustment the expats receive in other countries, so I get to suffer a double whammy. Politics all rhetoric and wind from politicians who fail the people all the time, who live in their own world and not that of reality.

Ha!

"It is clear that the House does not support this deal, but tonight's vote tells us nothing about what it does support," May told parliament

You've had two and a half years to find out what the House can and will support, Maggie.

the decision the British people took in a referendum parliament decided to hold

A referendum Cameron decided to hold in an attempt to shut up the Europhobes in his own party. A bit of (failed, as it turned out) political manoeuvring, not the practice of free and fair democracy.

*thwarting the will of the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit could radicalise much of the electorate*

Tush and fiddlesticks. If 17.4 million voted in favour of Brexit, over 16 million vote to remain, with clear Remain majorities in Scotland and Northern Ireland. In other words, 1.4 million votes - less than 4% of the turnout - has been allowed to trash the UK-EU relationship and probably the UK economy into the bargain. Not to mention the reputation of the UK around the world. That is not democracy, it's the dictatorship of the (very small, and regionally biased) majority. A referendum with the potential to instigate such major changes as those involved in leaving the EU should have required a much larger majority to pass - two-thirds, or three-quarters, not a simple one-vote-over-50%.

Replace May with Boris Johnson.

You think this is a good idea at the moment

Replacing anyone with Boris Johnson, with the exception perhaps of an Aunt Sally at the fairground, is never a good idea.

While I'm no Tory supporter, I think May, as a Remainer in an impossible position, did negotiate the deal she seriously believes is the best for the UK under the circumstances: ie, nominally out of the EU, but with as little damage as possible to UK interests. The catch-22 is that protecting the UK's interests means continuing to interact with the EU under EU rules - but, the UK no longer being a member of the EU, with no place at the table when those rules are formulated. For Brexit supporters, it looks like out-of-the-fireplace-into-the-fire; for opponents of Brexit it looks like sheer folly, giving up privileges with nothing in return.

LEAAAAAAVE... then scotland can finally be independant and re-join the EU, Ireland can reunite, all the banks will move to Paris, Frankfurt or Luxemburg, the fishermen won't get EU money anymore, all the research institution won't get EU funding anymore and renowed scientist will leave UK because of money and visa problems... but finally, no polish people stealing jobs that nobody else wanted to do in the first place anymore.

I thought the vote would/could have been tighter.

The final tally had a portion May's government payroll vote melting away.

The clueless Corbyn political posturing is typical of his entire parliamentary career, a feckless agitator, devoid of any noticeable leadership qualities which explains why his party is trialling in the polls.

Although history provides a number of valid reasons not pay to much attention to any survey/polling. A general election or a second referendum?

Both UK Government/Parliament and European Commission red lines could well have negotiated there way over a cliff. There is little or no semblance of trust or good will. A extension of the A50 process could make way for combined withdrawal/free trade settlement. However a greater level of transparency and a more pragmatic approach will be necessary.

Along with some soul searching, and honest reflection.

If only a question of economics, fiscal/monetary, after so many years of integration, admittedly sometimes fraught, the UK has benefited admirably from EU membership. Membership has provided my business with a skilled dedicated workforce. And will continue to do so.

It is forced political union, federalism, and inequality that is driving populist extremism, both left and right.

Now that it has been made clear -- and it should have been when this started -- people Don't support the deal, May can PERHAPS make her last move (and she should be out) to hold a second referendum. Her threats about a no-deal Brexit failed, and no one actually wants a no-deal exit. So, hold another referendum to prove it, and stay put. Will have been a HUGE waste of money, power, and a massive embarrassment, but better than the alternative.

Don't think it's a UK vs EU thing tbh. Imo the uk's having a major identity crisis I.e ppl no longer know who they're, who should govern, what's next etc.

Tbh all major Western nations are having the same issues but it's perhaps exacerbated in the uk where the national (and regional) identity has been diluted for decades (immigration, technology, English becoming 'the' global language etc). It's probably easier for euros who speak German, Italian, french, Basque etc and live outside major cities to keep their identity & distance themselves from the EU monstrosity when they need to.

Anything but Boris.

Boris is just a shaggy haired mutt, needs to be taken to the pound and put up for adoption, if no takers then he should be euthanized

I don't think you have read the article carefully.

The 8% for a referendum was on the question of remain vs deal

No it wasn't. Please read it again.

Tange:

"There should be a referendum on whether or not to accept the draft Brexit deal: 8%"

is what it actually said. I read it fine, thanks. Did you?

@theeastisred

The 8% for a referendum was on the question of remain vs deal

Can you tell me where is says "Remain vs Deal"?

It says:

"There should be a referendum on whether or not to accept the Brexit deal"

It says nothing about Remain being an option. How do you know that the referendum wouldn't be "Deal vs No-Deal?"

the UK had a better position remaining in and having a strong negotiation seat at the table, to be able to bring change to the Euro parliament, not only for the UK but for those other members who are dissatisfied . Cameron and his team disgraced themselves and let down the UK citizens, Brexit referendum was held among lies and fear mongering by all parties

minello7 has posted spot on the money. If you want a summary of what really went wrong please read that post because this is exactly it.

A referendum between two dead options? Oh I see. No wonder it isn't popular.

@theeastisred

You may consider No-Deal to be a dead option, but the majority of Brits don't.

Tange:

I can see now how the wording could be interpreted as referring to a choice between the deal and no deal, which I hadn't considered. But to characterise it as only 8% supporting any referendum, as you did, is not accurate and lacks candour. As widely predicted and as we now know, the deal is definitely dead as of last night, so the only options are remain or no-deal. If you are confident no-deal wins in that scenario, you should be welcoming a second referendum on a meaningful question, along with the rest of us. Then if you win, you will have rid yourselves of the remainers in the way the first referendum failed to do, tarnished as it was by the lies from the Brexit camp.

The original Brexit vote passed with only a 52% majority, with allegations of Russian meddling. For something as important as this, perhaps it would have been a good idea to require a super-majority vote in order to approve a withdrawal from the EU. Even a 55% requirement would have prevented all of this commotion.

Still, not sure whether the EU is a good deal or not for the member nations, at least not the way it is currently set up. There are a number of flaws, but it does not seem that anything is being done to fix them. Norway decided not to join, and that decision does not seem to have hurt them.

Norway is a member in all but name and accepts the freedom of movement, budget contributions and other conditions that enable market access. Such a status would not be enough for no-deal brexiters, and is less good than full membership since Norway has no voice in decision-making. So there would be no point in the UK following that path.

@theeastisred

I haven't characterized anything. I merely repeated word for word what the poll said.

I wouldn't welcome a second referendum because of the following reasons:

It would irreparably damage the trust between the electorate and parliament

It will lead to civil unrest - No matter how much some who don't want to leave the EU say otherwise

If Leave wins again (which I believe it would by a much larger margin), the result still won't be accepted by MPs and people who don't want to leave the EU under any circumstances

If Remain won (again, don't think it would happen) by only a whisker, it would leave the situation unresolved. People would be demanding a 3rd referendum, the a 4th etc

It would need at least another 6 months, in the meanwhile, the debate becomes more vicious and toxic

You subtly changed it but OK. I don't think we are going to agree on much.

I haven't characterized anything. I merely repeated word for word what the poll said.

Clearly more than 8% of the population want a 2nd referendum - the turnout of the People's Vote march alone show that - it simply is down to the way the survey was structured.

Most of those who want to remain also support a 2nd referendum but the question only allowed one answer.

Asked the same questions, I would have chosen to remain and given the choice, would also have chosen a 2nd vote.

In other words, the survey did not allow people to fully express their opinion, and it is not correct to interpret the results of the survey as stating that only 8% want a 2nd vote.

As much as i am not for the UK leaving the EU, a second referendum would be spiting in the face of democracy directly. The people have voted and even though i and many other people here don't like it that's what Britain wants and that's what Britain should get

There is so much disinfo and fear mongering aimed at the British people to try to get them to stay in the EU.

I’ve heard quite a bit ‘disinfo’ and freamongering from both sides. This goes all the way back to the campaigns when I heard talk of an extra 350m quid a week for the NHS from the leavers and Cameron talking about an increased risk of WW3 in the event of Brexit.

It’s been a pretty steady stream of bollocks ever since.

Economists are flipping coins all over the place to decide on “predictions’.

They are so useless it is astonishing.They had no plan from the start as they never thought they would win in the first place.

No if the Brits want to shoot themselves in the foot fair enough but they are really messing up Ireland.

Hope there wont be a return to the bad old days in NTh ireland just because the Torys are having a pissing contest.

No deal Brexit. The people have spoken and want to leave the socialist EU. 

This is one of the oddest statements I've read here. And there's been a few.

You are aware that Corbyn (a socialist) is against membership of the EU? And that many UK-based socialists voted to leave in the referendum?

It's called Lexit and it shreds the black & white nonsense about there being just two sides in the whole messy affair.

They see the EU as an un-elected bureaucracy and (rightly or wrongly) see Brexit as a chance to restore dignity to the working classes whose concerns have gone ignored for decades.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/22/austerity-corbyn-eu-brexit-peoples-vote

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/30/leftwing-brexiters-want-out-from-the-transnational-juggernaut

You are aware that Corbyn (a socialist) is against membership of the EU? And that many UK-based socialists voted to leave in the referendum?

I’ve posted similar things here but there are those who will always see what they want to see.

The most intelligent voice I ever came across criticizing the behemoth the EU became was that grand old leftie Tony Benn.

The most intelligent voice I ever came across criticizing the behemoth the EU became was that grand old leftie Tony Benn.

Aye. Had the pleasure of seeing him speak to us protesters during the Iraq debacle. Impressive orator. The UK, nay, the world is a poorer place without him.

Mistake 1: Holding a referendum on a proposal that the government didn't support and for which it had no plan. How can anyone expect such a proposal to be implemented?

Mistake 2: PM May not saying from the outset that she would put whatever deal she could come up with to a new referendum. I think that would have focused minds more on coming up with a deal that would get wider support.

On the other hand, I'm surprised at the level of opposition to May's deal among leave supporters. It seems to offer opportunities to move in various directions following a transition period.

I'm a remain supporter, although without any great enthusiasm for the EU. (I see governments of all kinds as necessary evils.) Perhaps I should be happy at the opposition to the plan, but right now I don't see anything much to look forward to.

Aye. Had the pleasure of seeing him speak to us protesters during the Iraq debacle. Impressive orator. The UK, nay, the world is a poorer place without him.

Had the pleasure of watching him speak myself and while I disagreed with him on some issues, he was magnificent. I’d post a link to his views on the EU, but the same people would still blather on about a rejection of socialism.

His rational dissection of the EU is impressive but some here seem to prefer Boris Johnson’s quips.

I am convinced the original vote was manipulated by Putin in order to drive a wedge into Europe, the same way he manipulated the U.S. presidential election.

I don't know about that. Maybe, but what I do know was that there was a lot of fearmongering and lying (365 million pounds a week for the NHS - yeah, and I'm the queen of England). People were worried about immigration, but didn't realize that a lot of it is from outside the EU. Letting every Tom, Dick and Harry come into the UK over the years and UK's soft approach to illegal immigrants have worsened the xenophobic and anti-EU feelings.

I am British and I want to leave the EU! Not with Boris though.

And I'm British and voted to remain. The problem in a nutshell - there is no grey area in which to compromise. This mess will never be resolved. I don't think a second referendum will happen, nor is is a good idea to have one. I agree about Boris though, the man is probably one of the least suited people to be PM. Look at the mess he made of being Foreign Secretary.

The British are citizens, haven't been 'subjects' for years. Stop living in the past.

PM May should resign and let the party to elect next PM to lead Brexit.

Why is she sticking to power? Does she want to be recorded as the leader who guide the Britain divorce from the EU in history books?

She has to ask the MPs who opposed her Brexit plan, otherwise she must resign for the sake of the country and its trading partners.

As a British subject... I would be even more determined to break the chains of the EU and retain what dignity remains of my independence.

Fair enough. In that case, I would extend the same wishes to the people of Scotland and the occupied 6 counties. If Britain can get its independence from the EU, then NI and Scotland can get theirs from the UK.

May had a crap deal and everybody knew it......