Fire out at Ukraine's key nuclear plant as Russian invasion advances

THIS is why I'm not in favor of nuclear power plants.

Jesus Christ, Putin really is a madman.

As if things could not be any worse. This is horrific. How are we going to be affected in Japan?

“It’s a near miracle that nuclear war has so far been avoided.”

Noam Chomsky

Let’s pray that it stays that way, but Putin is obviously quite mad.

Putin needs to be taken out ASAP.

100% of the blame for this war - and everything it causes- is on Vladimir Putin.

Agree with all of the above. Putin is more than a madman. He is a rabid dog that needs to be put down.

the "nuclear" plant is not "on fire".

There was a fire in the parking lot of an administrative building.

I certainly hope that is the case. The mere fact that they are even shooting and starting fires in the vicinity of a nuclear power plant in the first place is itself extraordinarily worrying though.

The german news are saying, that the Russian As..holes are shooting Nonstop from all sides towards the plant.

How stupid are these idiots?

Can't they use their brains?

The whole world knows already that Putin is unable to use his brain, because it is full of madness, but the Russian soldiers at least should understand what they are doing and what can be the impact if they do not stop shooting towards the plant.

Is there some way UN can intervene in order to prevent a nuclear catastrophe?

Hope that someone on the inside takes Poo Tin out.

Totally sickening reality. Totally unnecessary.

Please, Comrade Putin, take a chill pill.

I am still curious what molotov cocktails can do against tanks and armored vehicles.

What makes this extremely worrying is that as bad as the Fukushima disaster was, it at least occurred in a country during peace time that had considerable resources on hand to respond to it. And despite those advantages it was still a disaster of course, but it could have been much, much worse.

If anything goes wrong in one of these plants in Ukraine in the middle of this war though they won't have that same type of support. I mean these idiot Russians are literally shooting at the bloody plant now and I can imagine they'll interfere with any attempts to respond to a meltdown or other emergency should one occur as a result, which could lead to a worst case scenario.

This is just absolute madness, Putin must be stopped immediately. If he sets off one of these plants and the fallout starts landing on NATO countries this could escalate this idiotic war quite quickly out of control.

Europe's largest nuclear power plant in Ukraine on fire after Russia shelling:

That is not acceptable even in time of war.

A nuclear plant on fire may explode & cause tremendous damage to many people & their surrounding.

Did Chernobyl & Fukushima not ring any bell at all..?

Hope that someone on the inside takes Poo Tin out.

I 100% agree

Day by Day, as longer this madness continue, the world is going closer to a horrible disaster.

And everything (again) just because of one insane Idiot!

How's the reaction of Belarus? A Russia's staunch ally is located closer to the plants under attack across the border. The 1986 nuclear disaster affected many local Belorussians.

Please don't claim it's another pretext of Kyiv! Get serious.

zichi - Atomic plants can not blow up like a nuclear bombs. It can explode like at Chernobyl or meltdowns like at Fukushima

This is true. However, they can go into an uncontrollable meltdown which would make the sci-fi movie China Syndrome a sci-reality.

This madman is not gonna stop until the Ukraine is a pile of rubble. The political and economic sanctions placed on Russia obviously don’t mean anything to Putin.

Putin is nuts , OK we know that, so why in the name of logic are Ukrainian forces in the area of a Nuclear plant.

They know Putin is nuts they knew the Russian military was on its way there.

Logic says shut the plant down pull out all military targets and avoid a fight around the place.

Sorry I get they are defending the land but what good is that land if another nuclear meltdown happens.

I know Reuters confirmed fires after a firefight broke out, but Russia shelling a territory they've occupied for days now already makes no sense.

Hopefully they can get firefighting crews in as soon as possible. Fires themselves won't detonate a nuclear power plant, but if they damage cooling systems or prevent staff operations that would be a big issue.

French President Emmanuel Macron, who spoke to Putin Thursday, believes "the worst is to come," an aide said.

He wasn't kidding. I think the Doomsday Clock just moved a lot closer to midnight.

We really have only a few options.

We can do what Ukraine wants, have NATO intervem settings of WW3 and make no mistake it will be that.

Or we can guarantee no NATO expansion, guarantee Ukraine remains neutral as a "buffer zone" ( most likely with the breakaway regions going to Russia and hope future negotiations with a Putin successor in the future lead to a better solution.

But at this point time is running out.

The

"give me planes."

Won't make any difference and any attempt at enforcing a no fly zone will lead the war with what ever country tries doing the enforcing.

if Russia is targeting the plant it’s undoubtedly to pressure Ukraine to surrender. Worst case, if it blows, they can claim (again) that Ukrainian soldiers fired on it by accident or sabotage, basically maximum denial and obfuscation as is their tactic. At least the Russian and Chinese public will buy it, the only part of the world that matters to Putin now.

About the comment of why are Ukrainian soldiers there - of course if Russia seized the plant without a fight they can shut down electrical generation which would be really bad for Ukraine’s resistance.

this is also why I was insistent that the smaller lies we have already seen are not allowable or justified despite the horrific circumstances in Ukraine. and despite the desperation on the part of Ukraine and their existence being at stake. there still has to be a demand for TRUTH in all narratives.

The lies and half truths and propaganda will just keep increasing until the desired result of US and NATO combat troops on the ground is met. this is just another escalation towards that goal.

 I hope China steps up as it is the only country that can control this guy.

China has very little influence on Russia. Consider also the Russians do not want to allow themselves to become a Chinese satellite state. The Russians are acutely aware that the CCP sees much of the Russian Far East as traditionally part of China and rightfully theirs. They eye it the same way they eye Taiwan or the South China Sea.

I know Reuters confirmed fires after a firefight broke out, but Russia shelling a territory they've occupied for days now already makes no sense.

The Russians are trying to seal off the nearby river and surround a formation of Ukrainian Army. The power plant is basically in between the Russian and Ukrainian forces.

The reactor itself is shut down for maintenance, but it still has fuel inside and can go into meltdown if it receives a direct hit. The prevailing winds would blow this over Russia too.

How's the reaction of Belarus? A Russia's staunch ally is located closer to the plants under attack across the border. The 1986 nuclear disaster affected many local Belorussians.

Please look at a map. The reactors in question are well to the south of Kiev, the opposite direction from Belarus and closer to the Black Sea.

Als Bazaar are saying its ok at the moment. I hope that both sides will be sensible about fighting close to power stations. Although in reality its a strategic target as the power plant has the capacity of 1/4 (sounds wrong but that is what was reported) of ukraines energy.

@Zichi when Chernobyl had its explosion the fall out reached the UK. The fukushima melt-down was much more contained. It may not be the same as an atomoic weapon but it has the potential to harm a massive part of Europe and unlike previous melt-downs it will be in the middle of a war-zone.

I would add that I am sure there are some dusty folders on what to do if a nuclear plant is hit in a war but I think those plans would be mainly speculative. Interstingly when I volunteered for the Tokyo Olympics the instruction book had a section on what to do if there was a nuclear melt-down which felt to me a little over the top.

there still has to be a demand for TRUTH in all narratives.

This displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the meaning of ‘narrative’ which is surprising since you bandy the word around so freely.

Apparently the fire is not affecting the safe operation of the plant. That said, an kind of fighting with bombs and bullets anywhere near a nuclear power plant is complete insanity.

Chernobyl had no containment structure, zichi. You know that.

The reports I’ve seen have said an office building was on fire.

Yes, shelling electrical systems around the plant is nuts. If the reactors shut down, they still need electrical power for cooling and control.

As stupid as this is by perhaps rogue, dimwit troops, let’s not claim doomsday at this early time. I have to believe someone in Moscow will put a stop to this.

But, I’m running out of reasons for hope Putin has limits and isn’t willing to go out in a blaze of glory.

then because of the propaganda, things like this happen.

and what happens when its not propaganda, what all the right wing nutters going to say then That Ukraine started another Chernobyl with Russian rockets? .. How is that Putin is a genius narrative of the right now?

Putin is a dead man walking.

Vladimir Adolf Putin Hitler is playing a game that will burn the whole humanity forever.

Can’t the MI6 or the CIA just get rid of that pig?

Or maybe some general try a Coup D’etat to remove him?

Hopefully they can get firefighting crews in as soon as possible. Fires themselves won't detonate a nuclear power plant,

no they wont but they can spread the radiation into the atmosphere like in Chernobyl, so that half of Europe and Russia glows in the dark. Just plain insanity.

@Blacklabel

this is also why I was insistent that the smaller lies we have already seen are not allowable or justified despite the horrific circumstances in Ukraine. and despite the desperation on the part of Ukraine and their existence being at stake. there still has to be a demand for TRUTH in all narratives.

I think we rarely see eye-to-eye on much prior to this, but I agree with you here fully Blacklabel. The higher the stakes are the more we need to try to report things as accurately as we possibly can, because there is going to be an agenda behind any kind of reporting. Especially something where virtually every country in the world has some kind of stake in.

People are quick to identify Russian bias in reporting, which they should, but seem oblivious to any bias from the other side. In an age where even video evidence can be faked, we need to be more cautious than ever.

then because of the propaganda, things like this happen.

like the propaganda of Putin sending in peace keepers,

or denying that it was them supplying the rebels with surface to air missiles that downed the Malaysian flight in 2014. BS flows both ways

everyons worst nightmare is getting closer.

I hope this is true - but apparently a Russian businessman has put a million dollar bounty on Putin’s head.

I’m happy to chip in a few bucks as well

This displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the meaning of ‘narrative’ which is surprising since you bandy the word around so freely.

yet you always speak so "cryptically" where we have to guess why you are claiming someone else doesnt understand everything. You could simply just explain what you mean, no?

What is my misunderstanding of what "narrative" means?

Putin is nuts , OK we know that, so why in the name of logic are Ukrainian forces in the area of a Nuclear plant.

This makes no sense. Why put the onus on the Ukrainian military to not...simply be in the vicinity of a nuclear plant in their own country...instead of putting the onus on Russia to not needlessly attack that same plant?

They know Putin is nuts they knew the Russian military was on its way there.

I don't know the situation on the ground but I can think of many legitimate reasons for Ukrainian forces to be in a given part of their own country and zero legitimate reasons for the Russians to be. The Russians are the ones deciding where these battles are taking place and where their own bombs are landing, they are the ones who should be avoiding Ukrainian nuclear plants and not the other way around.

Logic says shut the plant down pull out all military targets and avoid a fight around the place.

I'm not a nuclear engineer, but its not a matter of just flipping a switch to shut one of these things down, and even if they aren't generating electricity they still need to be operated and are still extremely dangerous.

Sorry I get they are defending the land but what good is that land if another nuclear meltdown happens.

None. Yeah, maybe there is a good argument for the areas around nuclear power plants to be de-militarized, but the onus now is clearly on Russians not to attack those areas irrespective of whether there happen to be some Ukrainian soldiers there.

what all the right wing nutters going to say then That Ukraine started another Chernobyl with Russian rockets?

no one has said this that I am aware of.

Simply said there is NO increased radiation and the nuclear reactor is NOT on fire.

Both of which are true.

 BS flows both ways

there should not be "BS on both sides" when one side is expecting the entire world to rally to their defense and send their young men to die and be maimed for life in defense of the "BS" on their side?

one side should be "bs" free if they are righteous and just and deserving of the life and blood of otherwise uninvolved people, no? the USA does not HAVE to be involved in this. even more so if there is bs on both sides.

Coz it's suuuuch a good idea to destroy a nuclear power plant. What they heck are they thinking!?

The danger with hitting the electricity supply is a possible inability to continue cooling the reactors.

Unfortunately I have to agree with Speed's first post on this thread. Nuclear power generation assumes that humans are first and foremost rational and well-meaning beings.

If that basic assumption does not hold true, then we need to ban all nuclear power generation immediately.

rainydayToday  12:46 pm JST

This is a well worn long used tactic by the underdog to get far more international sympathy.

Place your troops in a way that a civilian population, hospital, school, etc... Is between you and the overwhelming enemy.

Fire and wait for the more powerful enemy to return fire hitting the civilian targets between you and them.

The let the world know about it

Now having no civilian targets to place between you and the enemy what a great alternative a nuclear power plant makes.

We have seen this tactic used in nearly every recent conflict from the wars of the former Yugoslavia, to the Middle east.

And judging by the reaction here and on other news sites it is working perfectly.

GarthgoyleToday  12:54 pm JST

Coz it's suuuuch a good idea to destroy a nuclear power plant. What they heck are they thinking!?

Who, the Ukrainian troops that thought it was a good idea to set up next to a nuclear plant or the Russians that thought it was a good idea to shoot at them.

Seems to me they both are lacking logic.

This is a well worn long used tactic by the underdog to get far more international sympathy.

Place your troops in a way that a civilian population, hospital, school, etc... Is between you and the overwhelming enemy.

Fire and wait for the more powerful enemy to return fire hitting the civilian targets between you and them.

The let the world know about it

Now having no civilian targets to place between you and the enemy what a great alternative a nuclear power plant makes.

We have seen this tactic used in nearly every recent conflict from the wars of the former Yugoslavia, to the Middle east.

And judging by the reaction here and on other news sites it is working perfectly.

Give us a break. This is an article about RUSSIAN FORCES bombing a Ukrainian nuclear plant in Ukraine yet all you want to do is - based purely on conjecture on your own part - place all the blame on Ukraine for this.

This is just idiotic Russian propaganda BS you are spewing here, nothing more.

So if Putin cant have the Ukraine he will make sure no one can by blowing up a nuclear station...he is totally unhinged and the whole world is in danger now...

Give us a break. This is an article about RUSSIAN FORCES bombing a Ukrainian nuclear plant in Ukraine yet all you want to do is - based purely on conjecture on your own part - place all the blame on Ukraine for this.

This is just idiotic Russian propaganda BS you are spewing here, nothing more.

So you are trying to tell us that the Russians just fired on the nuclear power plant for fun? Just to waste ammunition?

I know the Ukrainian propaganda machine has been working overtime trying to portray Russian troops as incompetent.

But let's face it they are well into the country.

It is interesting that using POWs for propaganda is against the rules but Ukraine is doing just that and the western news have broadcasted it using the excuse Ukraine is fighting for its existence.

If Russia did the same how would the Western media react if Russia was using Ukrainian pows as a propaganda tool on TV broadcasts.

Place your troops in a way that a civilian population, hospital, school, etc... Is between you and the overwhelming enemy.

AQ what you are describing is actually a war-crime. I suggest if you have any proof this is happening you report it. Although you wont get anywhere because only Putin will face a court because as T.Blair before Z will get a pass for anything he does.

rainydayToday  01:12 pm JST

Both sides are throwing propaganda BS out of all their orifices the difference between you and I is that I don't believe either side they're both untrustworthy liars

Now having no civilian targets to place between you and the enemy what a great alternative a nuclear power plant makes.

Ukrainian forces were trying to defend the plant and the nearby town. The Russian forces are trying to block the adjacent river and encircle them and are firing through the plant at the defending Ukrainians.

However Russian naval forces are using commercial shipping to shield their warships from shore fire.

https://gcaptain.com/russia-used-civilian-ship-as-a-human-shield/

Both sides are throwing propaganda BS out of all their orifices the difference between you and I is that I don't believe either side they're both untrustworthy liars

Could have fooled me, all you have done in your posts on this article is to uncritically repeat pro-Russian talking points.

@blastcaptain

This link: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-03-03/debates/09361B37-8E3B-44BB-B41F-D0955C53EA40/Russia%E2%80%99SAttackOnUkraine

Is the debate yesterday in UK parliament regarding completely locking out russia. Not just putin but everything russian. That is the context you need to have regarding all news-media. Everything is on a war-footing and that includes peoples comments on social media. The balance will not return until the war is over.

Personally I am finding Al Jazeera are doing a decent enough job of being balanced. You can get an overview of reports on the hour. RT is still available for an alternative view but its balance is way over to one side. UK news-media is just rubbish but it was rubbish before so nothing has changed other than politicians being kind to the BBC.

RT is still available for an alternative view but its balance is way over to one side. 

Woah I wonder why

So if Putin cant have the Ukraine he will make sure no one can by blowing up a nuclear station...he is totally unhinged and the whole world is in danger now...

Yes, that is exactly what I have been saying.

Yes, quite bigger than the real one is now the propaganda war. We don’t know who shelled the NPP, but you can find a reason for every side to do it or not to do it. For example, would you contaminate the whole region that is very near for what you have once started the invasion, Crimea and Donbas? Makes not so much sense. On the other side, Putin has gone wild and crazy, so a big nuclear disaster is in the result quite equal or similar to a complete , how he calls it, demilitarization or denazification. We don’t know it and we can only wait and see what it all turns out and the truth brings up one day.

I'm skeptical about this part of the news:

"Firefighters cannot get near the flames because they are being shot at, he said, and Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba tweeted a plea to the Russians to stop the assault and allow fire teams inside".

Would the Russians shell a NPP while tens of thousands of their soldiers & millions of their people are right around that nuclear power plant?

I doubt it very much!!

The fire is either accidental or set by the Ukrainian paramilitary battalions, because he, who burns people alive could do anything.

I fear we are seeing the beginnings of World War 3. But this time, the battle won't be so confined. It will truly be global on both physical and virtual landscapes.

S

I hope this is true - but apparently a Russian businessman has put a million dollar bounty on Putin’s head.

$1 million bounty on Putin offered by Russian businessman

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-699098

"I promise to pay $1,000,000 to the officer(s) who, complying with their constitutional duty, arrest(s) Putin as a war criminal under Russian and international laws," wrote Konanykhin on LinkedIn. "Putin is not the Russian president as he came to power as the result of a special operation of blowing up apartment buildings in Russia, then violated the Constitution by eliminating free elections and murdering his opponents."

uncritically repeat pro-Russian talking points.

For me, I critically report some of them as factual. you dont seem to care when that is the case.

"Pro-Russian talking point!" over and over.

well, to others its just what actually happened or what was actually said. and no, repeating something that is true is not pro-Putin either. its pro-whatactuallyhappened.

Zichi as far as this war. Putin has only started this truck up. This truck is only idling and yet to put into first gear. When they put this truck into second gear ( try to take Neto territory) will you see action from NETO. It will be a full on air, sea and land attack on the area where Putin is held up. The Russian population will not rally to Putin war. They realise it can only get worse not better if they side with Putin Nationalism and prolong the misery.

Could have fooled me, all you have done in your posts on this article is to uncritically repeat pro-Russian talking points.

No what I have done is expose facts that the media doesn't like.

If you don't like the facts then they are "pro-Russian" talking points.

Sky News and other showed what are supposed to be Russian POWs no blocking their faces, pure Ukrainian propaganda crying soldiers calling the parents, etc...

The news caster Said it was a clear violation of the rules of war but still they showed it using the excuse "Ukraine is in a fight for its existence".

So ask yourselves if Russia had done the same would the west be silent?

Does "is in a fight for its existence". Mean anything goes?

Again we are dealing with one mad man and another entrench group that has a hatred for one ethnic group despite the people that were a major reason for the past were Georgian and ethinc Ukrainian not Russian.

But why bother with the truth.

no support whatsoever for what Putin and/or Russia is doing. its horrible and terrible. any words like that.

But did I believe Zelensky saying all of Europe would be destroyed by this direct and intentional attack on a nuclear reactor that could blow up any minute unless you come save us right now? No, I dont.

Do I believe that Zelensky has survived THREE assassination attempts already because friendly Russians have warned him? No, I dont.

I can be against Putin and Russia while at the same time also for Ukraine being held to some basic standard for telling the truth.

I can be against Putin and Russia while at the same time also for Ukraine being held to some basic standard for telling the truth.

Basic standard of truth?

1) Do you have any proof Zelensky didn't escape 3 assassination attempts? Simply saying, "I don't believe it" isn't proof.

2) As for the invasion of the rest of Europe, that remains to be seen. You can't claim that is a lie, because you don't know what will happen, but I'd be willing to bet Putin will try this same stunt again, if given the chance.

Why do I or anyone else have to be with Russia or with Ukraine.

Why can't I be against both!

I know many many ethnic Ukrainians in Canada, their attitudes toward Poles, Russians, etc...I would describe as abysmal if not R.....

Putin is the definition of a mad dictator.

I don't trust either of them, both lie as easily as they breathe.

I just get tired of hearing the false propaganda by Ukraine given as facts.

Russia's propaganda is give as what most of it is "propaganda".

So ask yourselves if Russia had done the same would the west be silent?

Sorry, you've lost me.

How could Russia do the same, when there are no Ukrainian teenage conscripts on Russian soil, attacking Russian civilians and thinking they are engaged in military exercises?

No offense, and I realize it requires critical thinking skills, but that projectile could have been fired by Ukrainian themselves, by accident or by choice.

Come on. Next your argument will be that Ukraine is invading itself.

For me, I critically report some of them as factual. you dont seem to care when that is the case.

Are pro-Putin cultists and other anti-Americans who follow the I'd rather be a Russian ,han a Democrat deserting his leaky ship, and now claiming they never wrote pro-Putin posts? And then, like they've long done, when questioned appeal for the mods to sensor the poster who questioned them. Be honest many right wing Americans probably believe the slogan on this shirt

Tshirt.https://www.amazon.com/Id-Rather-Russian-Than-Democrat/dp/B07G8C5TT4

This is not a criminal court. What somebody believes is up to them. Or are you trying to control people's thoughts?

No, I'm pointing out the fact that OP is calling Zelensky a liar without a shred of evidence. I mean, if I'm going to call someone a liar, I going to actually provide facts and context not simply say, "I don't believe it."

2) As for the invasion of the rest of Europe, that remains to be seen. You can't claim that is a lie, because you don't know what will happen, but I'd be willing to bet Putin will try this same stunt again, if given the chance.

Oh come on, no one with a brain larger than a pea thinks Putin is so delusional that he thinks he can take on all the western European countries and the USA without nuking the planet!

He may go after a few former Soviet republics but the rest of Europe, anyone believing that also must be waiting for the Easter Bunny to bring them some chocolate.

cleoToday  03:00 pm JST

So instead of admitting Ukraine has violated the rules ( oh BTW the USA got called out for during Afghanistan and Iraq wars), you play a game of nuance.

Nice

Oh come on, no one with a brain larger than a pea thinks Putin is so delusional that he thinks he can take on all the western European countries and the USA without nuking the planet!

All of Europe? I didn't say all of Europe. To be more specific, I'm talking about Moldova. Look at the Transnitria region, and tell me that doesn't play out exactly the same way as Dombas and Luhansk.

All of Europe? I didn't say all of Europe. To be more specific, I'm talking about Moldova. Look at the Transnitria region, and tell me that doesn't play out exactly the same way as Dombas and Luhansk.

Ok look at Kosovo, isn't the argument the Donna's & Luhansk integral parts of Ukraine and the ethic Russians their cannot just take it?

Well Kosovo was part of Serbia even the region it church was founded in , the ethic Albanians refugees from the Ottoman Empire.

But the west was fine with it breaking away, no attempt to reconcile their differences and to keep it unified with Serbia.

Strange how that works.

I am not condoning what Russia is doing I am just pointing out the inconsistencies and double standards of the western countries.

Zoroto:

What is your source of fake info. CNN?

Literally one minute later:

CNN says:

And just now:

CNN

43 min ago

Do you consider CNN to be reliable, or not?

Are pro-Putin cultists and other anti-Americans who follow the I'd rather be a Russian ,han a Democrat deserting his leaky ship, and now claiming they never wrote pro-Putin posts? And then, like they've long done, when questioned appeal for the mods to sensor the poster who questioned them. Be honest many right wing Americans probably believe the slogan on this shirt

Most likely they don’t. Don’t give in to the propaganda hype. And remember one thing, conservatives never embrace and communist ideology. Wrong party.

Nothing to worry about. RPVs and the containment building itself are pretty sturdy.

In the unlikely event that it breaks, just duck and cover.

I am not condoning what Russia is doing I am just pointing out the inconsistencies and double standards of the western countries.

You also seem to have a double-standard yourself. At any rate, what does that have to do with Russia invading Ukraine? What right does Russia have to invade a sovereign country?

I think my favourite double standard and hypocrisy about this was is the willingness of so many western countries to take in ukrainian refugees when few would even touch Syrian refugees, Canada just announced it would take " unlimited" number of Ukrainians, imagine if it had tried that with Syrians.

Japan also doing the same, zero Syrians but Ukrainians Ok.

I think my favourite double standard and hypocrisy about this was is the willingness of so many western countries to take in ukrainian refugees when few would even touch Syrian refugees, Canada just announced it would take " unlimited" number of Ukrainians, imagine if it had tried that with Syrians.

I disagree with most of what you have had to say on the the conflict, but I agree with you on this point. Countries need to do more to help refugees wherever they come from.

what does that have to do with Russia invading Ukraine? What right does Russia have to invade a sovereign country?

Wow do I need to explain everything.

What started this whole thing, Ethinc Ukrainians vs ethnic Russians in Ukraine and 2 breakaway Russian regions.

Guess that part didn't get through.

When Kosovo said it wanted to leave a certain group of countries dropped bombs on Serbia but I guess that also doesn't count as attacking because some here will say it was to protect ethnic Albanians in Kosovo.

But contrary to popular belief fighting the the Donna's & Luhansk regions has not actually ever stopped. So big brother Russia came and put his nose into things.

Can you now see the parallels?

Neither side is any better, they all worked really hard to dig in deeper to the point that neither one could back down.

Neither side is any better,

This is just nonsense. Ukraine is unquestionably in the right here. Russia has no right to invade. The fact that there are ethnic Russians in those regions doesn't give Russia special authority to invade a sovereign country. Even if we were to agree with that premise for a moment, bombing Kyiv and other regions outside of the breakaway regions is most certainly overreach.

they all worked really hard to dig in deeper to the point that neither one could back down.

Russia really put a lot of effort into stirring the pot. They took the embers of discontent and poured gasoline onto it. I'm two-sidesing this one. Nope.

Russia attacks Ukraine nuclear plant as invasion advances

We're in a lose-lose situation. Putin just doesn't care about the loss of human life.

We think that we're going to make him suffer with sanctions ... He's playing ransom with nuclear power stations. 100% orchestrated to show the west that he is willing to make moves that we would never think of.

No what I have done is expose facts that the media doesn't like.

If you don't like the facts then they are "pro-Russian" talking points.

You are not exposing facts. At 1:04, the post I was responding to, you made a lengthy post speculating on the motives of Ukrainian forces. Speculation is not facts. You putting spin on stuff is not facts. This is what I am calling you out on. Neither of us know much about what is going on on the ground, but you are the one making very specific allegations about what the Ukrainian forces are doing based on zero evidence to support that. Its just BS talking points.

I'm not doing that. I'm questioning why you are putting the entire blame for all of this on Ukrainian forces in the absence of any facts to back that conclusion up. All we know is that Ukrainian forces in the vicinity of the plant came under attack by invading Russian forces and some shells landed on or near the plant, causing a fire. From those limited facts, you immediately rush to the conclusion that this is all the Ukrainians fault. That is not you exposing facts the media doesn't like, that is you making stuff up off the top of your head. Its pathetic.

Russia has no right to invade. The fact that there are ethnic Russians in those regions doesn't give Russia special authority to invade a sovereign country.

Interesting, because the USA foreign policy specifically says the USA has the Right to intervene anywhere in the world of its interest is threaded or its citizens and has done so on many many many occasions including invading several sovereign countries.

But I guess that only is acceptable if the one doing it is part of NATO, or a western governments, or ......

So tell me what is the difference, why is USA policy ok but Russia doing the same not?

Just to be clear I view both as not acceptable.

The warmongering and misinformation in the media is mindboggling. The current media narrative is that evil Putin attacked peaceful Ukraine out of nowhere without any reason.

While in reality all Russia experts have warned since the Maidan coup in 2015 that a NATO expasion into the Ukrain is a red line that Russia will never be allowed to cross. And it is not just Putin who says that, it is entire political class in Russia.

As would be same in the US.... would any US government accept a foreign government engineering a coup in Mexico, and then turning Mexico into a hostile nation, with missilel pointed at the US?

But we never hear that in our corporate media, do we. Truly sad.

Interesting, because the USA foreign policy specifically says the USA has the Right to intervene anywhere in the world of its interest is threaded or its citizens and has done so on many many many occasions including invading several sovereign countries.

I don't agree with what the US has done and I don't agree with what Russia is doing. It looks like we have found another point of agreement.

So tell me what is the difference, why is USA policy ok but Russia doing the same not?

Just to be clear I view both as not acceptable.

Nobody on here is saying its OK for the US to invade anyone, stop making strawman arguments. This is an article about Russia invading a country, not the US invading a country.

It’s just only comparing probabilities. That NPP firing is of course for gaining international attention and a propaganda boost. Why should the Russians set the gained regions and their favorite nearby summer vacation resort and home of the riches and oligarchs into a nuclear contaminated desert? On the other hand you cannot completely exclude that it happened by error or to accelerate the war progression. Anyway , it’s not decisive to attack for the Russians, they could have ended it already in the first 30 minutes. The weaknesses or logistics problems you all love to see are nothing else than giving that brotherly folks a generous little time for giving up alive.

rainydayToday  03:44 pm JST

Did Ukraine implement the accords to try and resolve the Donna's & Luhansk problem? No it delayed and delayed, it passed laws on language and ethnicity knowing they would offend the Russian minority, and hostility (AKA fighting) continued.

Ukraine spent more time trying to buy weapons and getting into NATO than trying to look for a peaceful solution.

Everything I wrote can be verified.

Putin was just salivating as Ukraine did more and more to push those regions further into his grasp.

As simple compromise, not passing more and more anti ethinc Russian laws would have possibly avoided this mess and dangling NATO membership was a big part of the problem.

The weaknesses or logistics problems you all love to see are nothing else than giving that brotherly folks a generous little time for giving up alive.

The Russians certainly have a strange way of showing brotherly love. Maybe the Ukrainians don't want that kind of brotherly love?

Does everyone feel as helpless as I do? I want somebody to go to their rescue. It is just heartbreaking that they are trying so hard.

Radiation pouring into Earth's atmosphere represents an existential threat to all of Europe and to a lesser extent, the entire globe. It is now a matter of self-defense to oppose the Russian forces in Ukraine.

Does everyone feel as helpless as I do? I want somebody to go to their rescue. It is just heartbreaking that they are trying so hard.

They can only help themselves and leave the scene while the Russian war machinery is still generously slow and even gives corridors for getting out. It’s of no use and doesn’t make sense to play the hero there. Everyone from the former iron curtain countries or influenced areas knows that or has already quite paid a price before all that current issues. They just don’t deserve the our own death, adding up to their area wins they will make whenever they want , if you support or contradict it, doesn’t play a role as they are too mighty and better equipped.

WilliB, 3:51

Para 1 above. I don't know anyone who thinks so simplistically. Most educated people are well aware of the causes and reasons.

Para 2. NATO was extremely reluctant to consider even the thought of Ukraine in NATO, understanding the depth of Russian feeling. A neutral Ukraine was just fine with everyone.

Para 3. No coup was engineered by a foreign government in the Ukraine. Which government would have chosen a comedian anyway? It was a popular vote. Just like you say for Crimea.

Para 4. We hear this view repeated constantly in the media. I have read it many times.

Why is Comrade Putin telling the population of Russia and his own troops that this only a special operation into eastern Ukraine, when in fact he is invading and taking by force the whole reluctant country? Just out of hatred for one man? Why is he bombing the cities and causing millions to flee?

Just why??? Even the troops do not really know what they are doing there or what their eventual purpose is. No-one welcomes them there. It makes no sense.

"Only urgent action by Europe can stop the Russian troops," he said. "Do not allow the death of Europe from a catastrophe at a nuclear power station."

then

But most experts saw nothing to indicate an impending disaster.

someone questioned that Zelensky said this earlier today and that it was false. He said it and it wasn’t true.

Ordnance and NPPs are a REALLY bad energy mix. REALLY BAD.