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Hong Kong police slammed as 'trigger-happy' after teen shot

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As usual, rlperez@hotmail.com.au has leapt to a lengthy defense of pro-CCP propaganda a few mere minutes after this article was posted. Curious indeed.

Where rlperez is correct is that the protests (not riots) have become increasingly aggressive, destructive, and violent, and I will acknowledge that it is a very sad development. However, although the amount has unfortunately increased, the starting point was impressively low. The lack of any sort of aggression among millions of protesters for months and months shows the truly peaceful and intelligent methods favored by the vast majority of the crowd. The fact that a few select people will lose their cool in these ultra-stressful situations is unavoidable. But at least they didn't lose their cool by shooting any police officers at point-blank range, when the atrocities committed by the police would certainly push most people beyond that line.

rlperez@hotmail.com.au: "a gasoline bomb landed in the middle of the group of officers in an explosion of flames."

How about the HK police routinely tear-gassing the first aid personnel or journalists standing on an overpass, away from any of the action? A gasoline bomb is certainly much more dangerous, but at least the police have training and protective gear.

"Video that spread quickly on social media appeared to show the officer opening fire as the masked teenager came at him with a metal rod, striking the officer's shooting arm."

Perhaps you're counting on the posters here having not seen that video, but I have - videos from multiple angles - and that's not at all what happened.

So the officer should have allowed himself to be brutally assaulted and injured or maybe killed ?

Eliminating the very, very, very slim chance of being killed by a child by actually firing a live bullet into a human being's chest from point-blank range is not an appropriate response by someone who is supposed to be representing the rule of law. Do HK police offers have no training in dealing with violence? De-escalation methods? Self-protection methods? If you're saying that the officer had no other choice, then you are truly insulting the abilities and training of the HK police force.

These are RIOTERS and should be treated as such

There are certainly a few rioters among the masses, there's no denying that. The vast majority of the group are not. You are generalizing an enormous group by the actions of a few.

from attacking police officers, including 25 who were injured, to...

You've truly lost touch with reality if you think you're going to win any supporters with comments like this. The HK police force are arresting bystanders at random, maliciously beating people on the street who are already handcuffed and defenseless, torturing them while in custody (perhaps at San Uk Ling) (per Amnesty), molesting them, and you're worried about the protestors attacking the police? You think 25 injured are a lot? Unbelievable.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

@rlperez@hotmail.com.au:

I suppose CNN are now making false, doctored TV coverage.

Re-look at the TV coverage.

The TV coverage shows a different picture.

The logic of your rhetoric is poor. When you urge others to look at TV, I suppose you're referring to the CCP's state-sponsored TV programming. When others talk about TV, you're calling them out as false and doctored. I say yours is propaganda. You say mine is propaganda. That's the type of logic that will run a conversation into the ground, and won't advance for anyone.

Pure fantasy on your part. What evidence do you have?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/09/hong-kong-arbitrary-arrests-brutal-beatings-and-torture-in-police-detention-revealed/

Amnesty International is a human rights watchdog NGO. Of course, they're not run by the Chinese government, so I'll wait patiently for you to label them fake or corrupt.

I suppose you've spoken to those in "San Uk Ling

I suppose you have regular luncheons with President Xi and C.E. Lam, so you know everything. Your methods of trying to discredit information that you dislike are repetitive and unproductive. The facts are that dozens of people have spoken out about the abuse and torture, many exited with severe injuries including several who were hospitalized (and the HK police claimed that it happened "during the arrest"), we have several HK lawyers publicly accusing the police of deterring them to legally contact their clients, we have police denials to HK justices of the peace and other lawmakers who requested to tour the facility to inspect for human rights violations, and we have a facility that very conveniently has no video cameras. So no - I personally have no concrete evidence of what happened, which is exactly equal to the amount of evidence you have that nothing happened. The best we can do is base our judgments off of the quality and quantity of reporters presenting the story. So if you'd like to play the "Yeah, but did you talk to them yourself??" game, I suggest you find some schoolchildren (who haven't yet been shot by the HK police).

Here are some links if you'd like, but again, I'm sure that non-CCP-sponsored content won't meet your requirements.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3026162/hong-kong-justices-peace-denied-entry-police-detention

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hong-kong-police-accused-of-beating-torturing-protesters/ar-AAHBlD9

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/09/28/thousands-rally-support-hong-kong-protesters-allege-police-torture-controversial-detention-near-china-border/

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3030709/why-hong-kong-police-stopped-sending-anti-government

9 ( +10 / -1 )

juminRhee:

My understanding is that this video was filmed by a NY Times journalist who was there - it's not taken from someone else's raw video. And while I agree with you that neutral sources are needed, do they exist? You claim that an American source is unreliable, presumably due to the U.S.'s relationship with China. Doesn't every nation have a relationship of some sort with China? As I mentioned in my above post, it's easy to find dots to connect in order to discredit absolutely any source on earth if you were so inclined. That doesn't mean that we should accept anything we hear, by the way. But I think if anyone is to have a meaningful conversation about the news, we're going to have to allow that not all news can be fake news.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

As clearly seen in the TV footage, the police officer was cornered and surrounded by about 6 armed rioters and one of the rioters attacked and hit the police with a baton/metal pole. So the officer should have allowed himself to be brutally assaulted and injured or maybe killed ?

Eh what? What video did you watch? The officer was not attacked. The officer broke away from his squad with his arm stretched out pointing a gun at a 16 YO no less. Shot him POINT BLANK. Not a warning shot, right in the chest. That is attempted murder.

I am surprised HK are able to endure this long, I hope they don't give up.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Also, if anyone would like to see the video of the shooting incident, here is a link to it with some nice analysis.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/asia/100000006745719/hong-kong-protester-shot.html

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Let the rest of the HK population get about their business.

That's what the people of HK have always wanted, without the Chinese slowly eroding their freedom and kidnapping dissenters. They don't want HK to become a sterile, docile dump like the rest of China.

Hong Kong wasn't broken, but the CCP decided it needs fixing.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

The government should be for the people

HK government hasn't been working for its people for awhile.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Communists killing their people. Nothing new. Just say NO to communism.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

So the officer should have allowed himself to be brutally assaulted and injured or maybe killed ? 

Do you realize what you are saying?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

^ The problem is police was colluding with local triad gangs on July 21 allowing the gangsters to beat the crap out of people including innocent passengers who were just returning home from work. It took how many years for HK police to build up the community relationship? All that was reset since then. It is a very good example to any police force in the world that it does not matter how many years you have spent on building up a good relationship with the community, all it needs is one instance and it will all back to zero - or even negative value.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

the police guy had 2 guns and was threatening other protesters, the 18 yo kid just tried to disarmed him, got shot. Why is a police guy even brandishing 2 guns in the middle of protesters ? isn't it his job to deal with these kind of situation ? There are no excuses for everything the HK (or w.e. is behind the masks) police is doing for the past months !

4 ( +6 / -2 )

okay, so which point is inexact ?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I saw a comment from a Hong Kong protestor on a video last week - 'peaceful protests didn't work in 2014. look at the Umbrella Movement. It changed nothing'. A certain amount of violence in protests is probably necessary for change. This could very well be the metaphorical bullet in the foot of the Hong Kong police force.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

This is an incident which divides the government from the people.  The government should be for the people, not against.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

^ I actually think the NY times one are quite good. You do not have to listen to its comments, but it does point out the officer has possession of other non-lethal means to deal with the situations which I would have over-looked. At least NY Times one are way better than the global times and those from China.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Peaceful march application was rejected.

Why?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

As a few others have spoken about a neutral source, I hardly think the new York Times (a news source based in America) would be good. Is there not a raw video circulating?

So, what is a neutral source? Please provide thevrest of us with a couple of examples since you seem to know which sources are neutral.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

What do you want them to do at this point, the government is ignoring peaceful protests, the police has no accountability...

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

I can understand their need to protest, but like others have said, when you do so against a government that may not have a problem coming down hard you put yourself in play.  Surrounding one of the cops in a mob is not the way to go if you don't want to get shot.

One other note on this whole Hong Kong issue that I'm surprised no one has really been talking about (at least that I have seen) is the make up of the demonstrators, and do they actually "practice what they preach."  You see scores of young Hong Kong(ers) ( I guess that what you could call someone from HKG) protesting and demanding more rights and greater autonomy from China, yet I would imagine that those in those crowds who have domestic workers in their homes, have no problems only giving them just one day off a week and don't mind keeping them in a second class status and indentured servitude.  You will see many non-native Hong Kong types (Filipino, Thai, Indonesian, etc.) all over the place doing the domestic work with only one day of true freedom (Sundays) , and these protestors have the gall it seems to protest how they feel towards mainland PRC. 

Not a big fan of the way PRC conducts themselves, but at some points I don't really see these protestors living up to all they are marching about seeing how they treat "the help."

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

What do you want them to do at this point...

Continue to protest, as is their right

What is not their right or anyone’s right is to use violence when we fail to persuade When we fail to get what we want

If the protestor l, the young kid, don’t understand that, I see no difference between him and Beijing

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Swing a bat at a cop, you might get shot- dictatorship or no dictatorship.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The original wing:

I would say that US, Russia, and China would not be the best sources as they are superpowers with a big interest. The truth is somewhere between Xinhua, RT, and CNN. I'd rather just grab from a non-superpower: DW (German), France24, etc. Granted, one should always get 2-3 sources before one claims it to be true

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Agreed with rlperez. This is not a pro democracy, authoritariarn debate now. This is a matter of chaos versus rule of law. People will say this is about democracy. Watch all the videos in their entirety instead of just watching your favorite news program that you listen to because it justifies your belief and spewing stuff that fit your belief.

Contrary to what some people will write against me, I agreed with the protesters in the beginning to withdraw the extradition bill and the government to hold debate on how to improve things, but now they have overreached and may be doing themselves more harm than good now. I probably would consider this generation lost now in Hong Kong. They have not learned to pick and choose their battles.

In matter of the kid that got shot. I feel for him and hope he recovers soon, but honestly, what is someone supposed to do. Imagine you are on the frontlines of this and someone is going to go at you with a metal pole and you are about to get hit. Natural reaction is to protect yourself with whatever you have no matter if it is a gun, baton, pepper spray or your hands. In this case the police had his weapon and it was the quickest way to de escalate the situation. People will definitely say the police instigated this. Again the police is outnumbered, and I am sure they are reaching their end of patience, which I consider admirable, considering they have been at it for 18 straight weeks now with these protesters. Over here, they would already declare curfew and martial law here in the States and call in the National Guard.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

A police officer, after being struck by a rioter with a metal rod reacts - how outrageous indeed.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

As a few others have spoken about a neutral source, I hardly think the new York Times (a news source based in America) would be good. Is there not a raw video circulating?

I'm an American and watched the NYT video. When someone points a gun at you, do you think they don't intend to use it? From that edited footage, it appeared to be 20+ seconds where multiple cops were pointing guns at the protestors while still being attacked by them with dangerous metal weapons. If seeing a gun pointed at you isn't sufficient warning to stop, I don't know what is. There was a great deal of restraint by the police in this situation. The cop was trying to protect another cop from deadly weapons.

Protestors had the upper hand and were pressing it too far in this instance, IMHO.

Restraint is a responsibility by BOTH sides.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Eppee"

What do you do when the government ignore you? Do you attack the police, vandalise public infrastructure and assault other members of the public? Or do you throw petrol bombs at public buildings and the police. Is this what you advocate every time someone disagrees with a government policy? Have you ever disagreed with a government policy/decision? Is this how you reacted?

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

The original wing:

As a few others have spoken about a neutral source, I hardly think the new York Times (a news source based in America) would be good. Is there not a raw video circulating?

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

As clearly seen in the TV footage, the police officer was cornered and surrounded by about 6 armed rioters and one of the rioters attacked and hit the police with a baton/metal pole. So the officer should have allowed himself to be brutally assaulted and injured or maybe killed ? 

The rooters had already assaulted a citizen that they THOUGHT was a Chinese official.

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

" from attacking police officers, including 25 who were injured, to destroying public property and vandalizing shops and banks linked to China."

"Video that spread quickly on social media appeared to show the officer opening fire as the masked teenager came at him with a metal rod, striking the officer's shooting arm."

" a dozen black-clad protesters throwing objects at police and closing in on the lone officer"

"a gasoline bomb landed in the middle of the group of officers in an explosion of flames."

These are what some commentators on this site are calling "peaceful demonstrators".

These are RIOTERS and should be treated as such; forget the anti-China hysteria and cat calls.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

papigiulio:

Re-look at the TV coverage. I suppose CNN are now making false, doctored TV coverage.

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

If the HKI rioters, as distinct from the protesters, what to overthrow the Chines Government, they should have the guts to say so. If the rioters want to challenge Chinas authority or sovereignty over HK, they should have the guts to say so. If the rioters want the US of annex HK, then they should get together with their financier, the CIA, and put out a joint statement to this affect and see how much support they can muster. Let the rest of the HK population get about their business.

-15 ( +0 / -15 )

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