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Judge fiercely criticizes Trump ex-adviser Flynn; delays Russia probe sentencing

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By Jan Wolfe and Ginger Gibson

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The judge did the right thing. Flynn should testify about what he has done. THEN he should be sentenced.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Prosecutors said Flynn already had provided most of the cooperation he could, but it was possible he might be able to help investigators further.

I read recently that Trump may already be under sealed indictment, meaning his crimes are no longer under the statue of limitations. And his foundation was shut down, but the lawsuit against it continues. All in all, not a good day for the Don. Anyone want to defend him?

11 ( +11 / -0 )

You are right. He is in huge trouble, I just can’t understand why Muller didn’t want to prosecute Flynn and the Russians from the Cambridge group. Maybe he has so much evidence that he is overwhelmed.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Dare I say it....

Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!

Ha ha. Hee hee.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Awesome.

Any evidence he provided to Mueller is now inadmissible. He's a proven liar.

Hilarious.

-20 ( +0 / -20 )

I read recently that Trump may already be under sealed indictment, meaning his crimes are no longer under the statue of limitations. And his foundation was shut down, but the lawsuit against it continues. All in all, not a good day for the Don. Anyone want to defend him?

One possibility is it will probably remain sealed until he leaves office 2024 after that it’s anyone’s guess, but with the flimsy allegations Mueller has of now at this moment, even later the President has nothing to really worry about, the worst that could happen at this point is he’d better get his bank account ready

-22 ( +0 / -22 )

The judge:

"Arguably, you sold your country out. I'm not hiding my disgust, my disdain for this criminal offense."

Trump:

"Good luck today in court to General Michael Flynn. Will be interesting to see what he has to say, despite tremendous pressure being put on him, about Russian Collusion in our great and, obviously, highly successful political campaign."

16 ( +16 / -0 )

Any evidence he provided to Mueller is now inadmissible. He's a proven liar.

Afraid that's not how it works. It's all still admissible.

16 ( +16 / -0 )

Russia has denied meddling in the election, contrary to the conclusion of U.S. intelligence agencies

And still many 'American' Trump supporters (aka Trumpistanians) believe Russian propaganda and rightwing media like infowars, Fox'news' among others instead of what the US intelligence agencies report. 

"Arguably, you sold your country out," Sullivan told Flynn.

As are many Trump supporters, especially those who continue to back Individual 1 and his crime syndicate in their attempt to establish Trumpistan. At least they're consistent; since the 2016 election they've said they wanted Trump to tear down US systems, which Trump and his bund attempt to do on a daily basis. 

Get some MORE Mueller!

10 ( +10 / -0 )

It should be pointed out that Obama fired this guy; and Trump, trying to do the opposite of everything Obama did, hired him back to an even greater role. This is sort of why the Trump Presidency - trying to undo everything Obama did - is hopelessly misguided.

It would be a travesty if General “Lock Her Up” Flynn somehow manages not to be locked up after what looks like treason working for the Turkish dictator while also working for the US. He needs some prison time.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Flynn was a high-profile adviser to Trump's campaign team.

And like so many Trump backers was also a believer in conspiracy theories.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/feb/14/michael-flynns-troubling-penchant-conspiracy-thoer/

Dollars to doughnuts Flynn with the help of his son will make their money back giving conspiracy laden speeches to the many whack, ultrarightist groups (including the NRA) in the US, maybe even Europe, and will be supported along the way by funding from Bannon and Flynn's friends in Moscow.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

It would be a travesty if General “Lock Her Up” Flynn somehow manages not to be locked up after what looks like treason working for the Turkish dictator while also working for the US. He needs some prison time.

I don’t know if the man needs prison time, but this thing is so screwed up on so many levels, we just don’t know, unlike liberals I won’t speculate on this, but this is a bizarre one.

-22 ( +0 / -22 )

And like so many Trump backers was also a believer in conspiracy theories.

Perhaps not so surprising, since it turns out that Flynn was elbow deep in a real conspiracy to subvert democracy.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

 I won’t speculate on this, but this is a bizarre on

You're unusually withholding judgement in this case. What makes it so different from all the others?

10 ( +10 / -0 )

LOL! And the hits just keep on coming!

Two ex-business associates of Michael Flynn charged in plot centered on Turkish cleric

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/two-ex-business-associates-michael-flynn-charged-plot-011004115.html

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Not really surprised, giving his unstable career of recent. I don't know the law well enough to say he should do time or not but it sure is interesting to hear the Former National Security Adviser admit to conspiring with a Russian ambassador and lobbying for Turkey with unapproved funding. This is the man who was in charge of advising our national security...If not Flynn then someone should be held accountable, don't you think?

@burningbush, his statements are totally admissible man, previously lying doesn't beat evidence which has led those lies to come untangled. Same thing happened to Cohen and it's happened to many others in court.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

G.I. Joe Flynn is a disgrace who sold his country out. He should also face militray justice and lose his military pension.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

unlike liberals...

...conservatives are the ones getting locked up.

LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!

He thought Hillary would get locked up but it is really him. It's so funny.

Now how are those Trump kids looking? I bet they really wish daddy didn't run for president. Their daddy playing president must be like watching your child play with fire but there is nothing you can do to take away the matches.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

bass4funkToday 08:45 am JST

... unlike liberals I won’t speculate on this...

But you will speculate that the president has nothing to worry about no matter what's going on with Flynn. Still exactly the same thing you like accusing "liberals" of.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Flynn is toast...the great orange said he was a good man...suppose anyone who is willing to commit crimes for you is a good man...

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Trump followers are brainwashed. There were a couple of other Republicans that I liked and I would be fine if they were president. Trump is not Conservative. He's something else, and people around him are going down like Manafort and Flynn.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

But you will speculate that the president has nothing to worry about

Trump is the President, Flynn is not. You can’t indict a sitting President and even if you COULD you wouldn’t get him removed.

Still exactly the same thing you like accusing "liberals" of.

But I do know the difference between a President, his Presidential powers and the powers of the NSA.

-18 ( +0 / -18 )

I'm confused - maybe a Trump supporter here can assist me...

Michael Flynn has fully cooperated with the Special Counsel, and met with him at least 19 time for over 63 hours, providing evidently credible information and evidence on the counsel's "core investigation" which is collusion.

At this hearing, where the judge was obviously going to sentence him to jail, Flynn requested that be delayed, so he can go back and provide even more testimony and evidence regarding collusion, in hopes of getting a reduced sentence.

The Special Counsel's office agreed with the request for both reduced sentencing and a delay to provide more testimony/evidence, saying that Flynn in fact has provided "substantial cooperation".

So Flynn has essentially in Trump's words "ratted out" Trump on the collusion allegation...

Just as Cohen has ratted out Trump on the conspiracy allegation...

Why does Trump give Flynn best wishes and "good luck" and call Cohen a "rat" and a "liar"?

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Treason by any other name is still treason. Representing the interests of a foreign government for financial gain while acting NAtional Security Advisor is treason. Obama warned Trump to steer clear of him, so of course the Dotard did just the opposite. Expect to see Indicidual 1 and his family indicted in the coming year.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

This stuff is getting too much. Have a snap election without trump or Clinton.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

lincolnmanToday 10:36 am JST

I'm confused - maybe a Trump supporter here can assist me...

I doubt it. The nonsense they come out with is guaranteed to leave you even more confused.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

President Swamp is a career criminal who surrounds himself with low-lifes and infects everyone within range. We should not be surprised by any of this.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

I doubt it. The nonsense they come out with is guaranteed to leave you even more confused.

Welcome our world, that’s what we’ve been saying for the last 8 years.

Treason by any other name is still treason. Representing the interests of a foreign government for financial gain while acting NAtional Security Advisor is treason. Obama warned Trump to steer clear of him, so of course the Dotard did just the opposite. Expect to see Indicidual 1 and his family indicted in the coming year.

Wait! So when a person says to former President Medvedev, “wait until after the elections, I’ll have more flexibility on the missile defense shield”, talking on a hot mic, that’s not treason? Hmmmmm....smell the hypocrisy.

-16 ( +0 / -16 )

Why does Trump give Flynn best wishes and "good luck" and call Cohen a "rat" and a "liar"?

Lincolnman, my guess is that Flynn's delayed sentencing and Trump's usually kind words are related - he's got a lot more to spill, and Trump is terrified.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

that’s what we’ve been saying for the last 8 years.

Saying what?

You can’t indict a sitting President

The Little Trumps like Donald Jr? Remember prosecutors and the Special Counsel work slowly but deadly. And if something happens on the local level with the local prosecutors that CANNOT be pardoned. Lots on dirty business happening in the STATE of New York and I hear they've got some nasty prosecutors there.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Any evidence he provided to Mueller is now inadmissible. He's a proven liar. Hilarious.

well since Trump is a proven liar any evidence, statement, twitter rant that comes out of his mouth should be inadmissible in a court of law also. Seems Pinocchio in Chief can't really defend himself now

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Any evidence he provided to Mueller is now inadmissible. He's a proven liar. Hilarious.

Don't people feel stupid posting 'logic' like this?

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Any evidence he provided to Mueller is now inadmissible. He's a proven liar. Hilarious.

well since Trump is a proven liar any evidence, statement, twitter rant that comes out of his mouth should be inadmissible in a court of law also. Seems Pinocchio in Chief can't really defend himself now.

Let me take a wails guess, but the liberal msm, the politicians are all honest? As well as the top echelon of the FBI? Oh, that’s real rich. Lol

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

Whats rich is Trumplets screaming that Mueller is corrupt without a single piece of evidence...Rolf Lol

4 ( +5 / -1 )

bass4funkToday 11:38 am JST

I doubt it. The nonsense they come out with is guaranteed to leave you even more confused.

Welcome our world, that’s what we’ve been saying for the last 8 years.

What, you've been saying for the last eight years that Trump supporters are either disingenuous, stupid or just incoherent?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@bass4funk

Are you saying that if other politicians lie and the media spreads fake news, it makes it ok for the president to lie? That doesn't make any sense to me...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Arguably, you sold your country out . . .

Yep!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Wait! So when a person says to former President Medvedev, “wait until after the elections, I’ll have more flexibility on the missile defense shield”, talking on a hot mic, that’s not treason? Hmmmmm....smell the hypocrisy.

Eh?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Are you saying that if other politicians lie and the media spreads fake news, it makes it ok for the president to lie?

Did I say that?

That doesn't make any sense to me...

Of course it doesn’t.

I just think it’s strange, the FBI knew everything what was going on, so why did the corrupt cops speak to the NSA without following proper protocol, they didn’t even give him his Miranda warnings which they didn’t And the reason for that is because that idiot Comey was investigating the president. So as I have said before, I don’t know how this will end up for Flynn, but he does have that ace of not being Mirandized in his pocket.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

@bass4funk You kinda did...

well since Trump is a proven liar any evidence, statement, twitter rant that comes out of his mouth should be inadmissible in a court of law also. Seems Pinocchio in Chief can't really defend himself now.

Let me take a wails guess, but the liberal msm, the politicians are all honest? As well as the top echelon of the FBI? Oh, that’s real rich. Lol

Defending Trump by accusing liberal msm, politicians, and the FBI are also liars.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

@bass4funk

Was he not read his rights? Only thing I've heard is that prosecutors failed to inform him lying to the FBI was a federal crime (something you hope the former national security adviser would know). Even right wing media says he should never had lied to the FBI.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

You kinda did...

No, I did not.

Defending Trump by accusing liberal msm, politicians, and the FBI are also liars

I’m not defending Trump, but to even suggest that the liberal mainstream media is not out to get him or that are not lying is just completely ludicrous.

Was he not read his rights?

No, not at the time when they approached him already knowing what they knew and if they thought he was a suspect and before any conversation there after would’ve taken place, they should have read him his Miranda warnings.

Only thing I've heard is that prosecutors failed to inform him lying to the FBI was a federal crime (something you hope the former national security adviser would know). Even right wing media says he should never had lied to the FBI.

I understand, but that’s not the issue, the issue is, entrapment and not reading his rights. Bad move on the part of the FBI.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Lock him up.

Lock the whole crime family up and wipe their grubby fingerprints off the White House for good.

Sadly, it won't heal America's divisions - that will take some very brave and dedicated people and probably a generation or two to achieve.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Lock him up.

Why? Even knowing that the FBI entrapped him? Wow.

Lock the whole crime family up and wipe their grubby fingerprints off the White House for good.

But what about the last ones they let go? You’re not outraged by that? I know I am.

Sadly, it won't heal America's divisions - that will take some very brave and dedicated people and probably a generation or two to achieve.

Socialists? Lol

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

But what about the last ones they let go?

Please be specific. Who are the last ones?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

No, not at the time when they approached him already knowing what they knew and if they thought he was a suspect and before any conversation there after would’ve taken place, they should have read him his Miranda warnings.

Take it from someone with background in law enforcement - when someone is considered a suspect in a crime, they are read their Miranda rights under the 5th Amendment. Flynn was interviewed as a witness in possible collusion by Manafort, Gates, Papadapolous, and others in the Trump campaign. He chose to lie about any contact he had with Russians, validated by intercepts of the Russian Ambassador.

Only thing I've heard is that prosecutors failed to inform him lying to the FBI was a federal crime (something you hope the former national security adviser would know). Even right wing media says he should never had lied to the FBI.

I understand, but that’s not the issue, the issue is, entrapment and not reading his rights. Bad move on the part of the FBI.

If he had been entrapped or the FBI had violated his rights in any way Judge Sullivan would have thrown the Government’s whole case out today. He did just the opposite, as outlined in the article above. Moreover, as someone with 33 years active military service, and as head of the DIA, Flynn has been interviewed by Federal Agents hundreds of times as part of retaining his security clearance - the notion that he didn’t know not to lie to an FBI agent is beyond ridiculous.  And he and his attorney’s were specifically asked by the judge; 

Tuesday, Sullivan asked Flynn's attorneys if the former national security adviser was "entrapped by the FBI." His defense lawyer said, "No, your honor."

By the way, Judge Sullivan was praised by Fox News Judge Jeanine…

https://www.newsweek.com/msnbc-anchor-ridicules-jeanine-pirro-praising-flynn-judge-ill-donate-500-if-1264303

And lastly, why are all the Trump supporters ignoring my 10:36 question above?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The sheer number of dodgy people surrounding Trump is incredible.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

But what about the last ones they let go? You’re not outraged by that? I know I am.

But we all know you’re not enraged by the Trump Cartel literally taking over America. As I say, the most hypocritical poster on this site.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The sheer number of dodgy people surrounding Trump is incredible.

But they still blame Hillary and her lost emails.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Any evidence he provided to Mueller is now inadmissible. He's a proven liar.

What you forget to mention is that Flynn was caught lying to FBI agents in a probe into Russian interference in the 2016 election

Meaning, if you're calling him a liar on that, that means he lied about some truth in the probe into Russian interference in the 2016 election

So you're essentially admitting to the existence of some truth in the probe because you're admitting Flynn was lying when questioned about it

4 ( +4 / -0 )

entrapment and not reading his rights

Wow, how did the judge miss that one and not dismiss all charges against Flynn?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Socialists? Lol

Poor grasp on ideologies and an understanding as to what bravery and dedication actually means. LOL!

Clue: It's not the corrupt junta currently in charge.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Take it from someone with background in law enforcement - when someone is considered a suspect in a crime, they are read their Miranda rights under the 5th Amendment. 

Flynn wasn’t at the moment he was approached when the agents came up to him, if they want to investigate, they are allowed to do that all day long, but to go up to him and basically lay an entrapment for him is sleazy at its worst.

He chose to lie about any contact he had with Russians, validated by intercepts of the Russian Ambassador.

Oh, my gosh, lock your doors, DEFCON 9, keep your kids under the bed, Flynn lied. Forget everyone else in Washington that really lied through their death, we have to give the Death penalty to Flynn because he told a lie, we are just not safe anymore.

And lastly, why are all the Trump supporters ignoring my 10:36 question above?

I did in a more compressed way.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

but to go up to him and basically lay an entrapment for him is sleazy at its worst.

Did the judge say this? It seems a judge with a law degree would be the best judge of this. If the judge didn't say it was entrapment then it wasn't.

lock your doors

Lock him up! Lock him up!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@bass4funk

I just think it’s strange, the FBI knew everything what was going on, so why did the corrupt cops speak to the NSA without following proper protocol, they didn’t even give him his Miranda warnings 

Miranda warnings apply only when a suspect is taken into custody. They are intended as a protection against self-incrimination. (By like, you know, blurting out the truth about a crime you've committed instead of asserting your right to silence.)

So one thing you've misunderstood, in addition to Miranda itself, is the concept of self-incrimination.

Flynn wasn't in custody, he was serving as the National Security Advisor, and was voluntarily interviewed by the FBI. Lying to them wasn't self-incrimination, it was committing a crime. And a very, very unwise place to do that is while in eye contact with FBI investigators.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

but to go up to him and basically lay an entrapment for him is sleazy at its worst

They made me lie to them!

Yeah, right.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Flynn wasn’t at the moment he was approached when the agents came up to him, if they want to investigate, they are allowed to do that all day long, but to go up to him and basically lay an entrapment for him is sleazy at its worst.

Flynn was being interviewed as a witness...

When asked by Judge Sullivan today if he was entrapped both he and his lawyer said "No"...

Judge Sullivan would have dismissed the case if he believed the government had acted inappropriately, even if Flynn and his lawyers said no...

Even the usual far-right conspiracy theorists know this one is bogus...

He chose to lie about any contact he had with Russians, validated by intercepts of the Russian Ambassador.

Oh, my gosh, lock your doors, DEFCON 9, keep your kids under the bed, Flynn lied. Forget everyone else in Washington that really lied through their death, we have to give the Death penalty to Flynn because he told a lie, we are just not safe anymore.

Poor attempt at satire. He lied about meeting with Russians...you know, just like Manafort, Gates, Papapolous, Sessions, etc., etc..

And lastly, why are all the Trump supporters ignoring my 10:36 question above?

I did in a more compressed way.

Decompress it because I didn't see it. Why is Flynn who is fully cooperating with Mueller in not one but three separate investigations (Russia, Turkey, and an "unreleased" one) a good guy, and Cohen who is cooperating in two investigations (Russia and Payoff-gate) a liar and "rat"...?

Why isn't Flynn a "rat" too?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

President Moron couldn't keep his mouth shut then. Unbelievable the pre-hearing comments from the Moron and his equally moronic press secretary.

That's some victim there, poor Mike Flynn.

C'mon it's only treason.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I hope Flynn can learn from his lessons.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Wipeout: Miranda warnings apply only when a suspect is taken into custody. 

Thats my understanding as well:

“If a person is in custody (deprived of his or her freedom of action in any significant way), the police must read the Miranda rights if they want to ask questions and use the answers as evidence at trial.

If someone is not in police custody, however, no Miranda warning is required and anything the person says can be used at trial.”

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-questioning-miranda-warnings-29930.html

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Miranda warnings apply only when a suspect is taken into custody. They are intended as a protection against self-incrimination. (By like, you know, blurting out the truth about a crime you've committed instead of asserting your right to silence.)

Sorry, but you’re not exactly right on that point.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/12/16/rep_darrell_issa_flynns_conviction_will_be_overturned.html

And now that Judge Sullivan has made it pretty clear that they, in layman's terms, violated his Miranda rights, tricked him into not having a lawyer, when, in fact, he was not only a suspect, but a target, and they had transcripts. This kind of conduct, we haven't seen in a long time. 

It is the reason that there was a Supreme Court decision on Miranda about informing rights.

And I would not be surprised a bit that the conviction of Flynn is overturned because of the Justice Department and the FBI's misconduct, and that, in fact, we go potentially all the way to Supreme Court with new protections when the FBI and the Department of Justice lies to somebody and tricks them into making statements, and then charges them with a lie that they entrapped them in.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

President Moron couldn't keep his mouth shut then. Unbelievable the pre-hearing comments from the Moron and his equally moronic press secretary.

So the msn is now working for Trump? What?

 

C'mon it's only treason.

Everything is treason to liberals. Walking and chewing mentos would be considered high treason to liberals.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Sorry, but you’re not exactly right on that point.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/12/16/rep_darrell_issa_flynns_conviction_will_be_overturned.html

Cites Darrell "I'm in Trump's Pocket" Issa - a far right wing nut who's seat was taken over by a Democrat...

Flynn and his lawyer both stated in court to a judge that we was not entrapped.

He has provided "significant contribution" to Mueller's core investigation - which is COLLUSION. So much so that Mueller is asking for leniency at sentencing.

He's fully cooperating in two other investigations involving Trump - i.e., giving testimony and evidence...

He's cooperating with Mueller on a broader scale and more completely than Cohen.

So for the fourth time, why isn't Flynn a rat like Cohen?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Everything is treason to liberals

But Flynn is under arrest unlike the fake crime of Hillary and her "lost 300,000 emails". It's like a broken record. Where is Hillary's 300,000 emails? Can't you Trump people think of something new for Hillary? Because with Trump it is not necessary because there is something new and illegal almost on daily basis. All Trump people can say is Where is Hillary's 300,000 emails?

Sorry, but you’re not exactly right on that point.

But the point is whatever the claim is from the Trump people, Flynn's arrest is cut and dry. No violation of rights there. Now did I hear a Trump person ask about Hillary's 300,000 emails again?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@bass4funk

Sorry, but you’re not exactly right on that point.

Not only am I completely right, but (more importantly) the FBI and the court understand the law very well, no matter how hard you try to distort the picture.

Your link's already out of date, seeing as Issa wrongly predicts that Flynn's case would be tossed out. "Judge Sullivan has made it pretty clear that they, in layman's terms, violated his Miranda rights, tricked him into not having a lawyer, when, in fact, he was not only a suspect, but a target, and they had transcripts."

How do you square that with Sullivan actually saying "This is a very serious offense [...] A high-ranking senior official of the government making false statements to the Federal Bureau of Investigation while on the physical premises of the White House."

This is how the guilty plea, after detailed questioning by the judge, was handled yesterday:

"I would like to proceed, your honor," Flynn said. 

Sullivan asked, "Because you're guilty of this offense?"

"Yes, your honor," Flynn said, nodding. 

Sullivan then accepted Flynn's plea.

The judge has established Flynn's willingness to plead guilty and to be sentenced. This is not a case that can be overturned or appealed or chucked out on legal grounds. Flynn has acknowledged that the process was correct, legal, and proper, declining the opportunities given him by the judge to say otherwise.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

bass: Flynn, but he does have that ace of not being Mirandized in his pocket.

Yeah, all of the criminals around Trump have an ace in their pocket somehow. Manafort will be pardoned, Flynn will get overturned, Trump will never face justice as President.

This is all some kind of game to you, some kind of competition with people on message boards. You know Trump's people are scum but you so badly want them to walk free, all so you can declare yourself the winner. These magical aces in the holes are your mechanism for coping with loss, like none of it's real or it's all going to get overturned or pardoned and you will eventually win in the end.

But this isn't a game. If Manafort and Flynn were in our government right now the odds are good that they would be compromised right now. They would be helping to create policy that can have far-reaching implications to our country, and it's all meaningless to you. You just want to see these criminals walk so you can rush back here and proudly declare yourself the victor.

You really need to find new ways of feeling like a winner, ones that don't hurt our country. Now take that 35 years of journalism experience and repackage my comments and send them back to me.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Not only am I completely right, but (more importantly) the FBI and the court understand the law very well, no matter how hard you try to distort the picture. 

Ok, well, I think you are completely and emphatically wrong on this.

Your link's already out of date,

Doesn't change the fact at all that the Feds entrapped Flynn.

seeing as Issa wrongly predicts that Flynn's case would be tossed out. "Judge Sullivan has made it pretty clear that they, in layman's terms, violated his Miranda rights, tricked him into not having a lawyer, when, in fact, he was not only a suspect, but a target, and they had transcripts."

I predict that if Flynn were to get Jail time, it would be less than a year.

The judge has established Flynn's willingness to plead guilty and to be sentenced.

It didn’t think that they would have a case and a strong case that the church probably my overturn his sentence they would have excepted to extend the sentence hearing.

This is not a case that can be overturned or appealed or chucked out on legal grounds. Flynn has acknowledged that the process was correct, legal, and proper, declining the opportunities given him by the judge to say otherwise.

Yes and all the reason why he has a strong case that the Feds overstepped their authority because they were so obsessed with trying to get to Trump, now granted, Flynn should haveg never lied, but that doesn’t change the fact that the corrupt cops violated his basic civil rights, big problem.

Former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s legal team on Tuesday night filed an extensive sentencing memo making the case for Flynn to serve probation only. And in doing so, they suggest Flynn went into the meeting with the FBI, in which he lied, with a false sense of security. They note the investigators didn’t recommend Flynn bring a lawyer and didn’t explain that lying would put Flynn in legal jeopardy. They also note that others who have pleaded guilty to lying — George Papadopoulos and Alex van der Zwaan — got different treatment on those counts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/12/12/russia-investigation-critics-have-finally-found-their-supposed-perjury-trap/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.caf2e58d0b57

*And this one is up-to-date.

Looks like Flynn’s case not only got stronger, but there’s a silver lining on that as well.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Yeah, all of the criminals around Trump have an ace in their pocket somehow. Manafort will be pardoned, Flynn will get overturned, Trump will never face justice as President.

Hillary. Holder, Lynch and Lerner are walking around still, so....

This is all some kind of game to you,

No, it’s not a game for me absolutely not, for you guys it’s all about getting this president out of office and that’s fine, but don’t give me that garbage or hide behind Mueller that this is about seeking the truth and seeking justice it’s all about revenge and to try to undo it do you like the president and take him out of office, that’s what this is all about. I would have much more respect for liberals if they would come clean and just say, I hate this president and I want the government to use every possible and less it necessary to get him out, I can respect that, but I can’t respect when charlatans try to act all concerned about so many of the situations, when they completely ignored everything that happened with the last administration. So no, it’s not a game for me, I take this very seriously and I feel that general Flynn was lied to and here’s a man who serve this country for 33 years and even though he lied which is bad and I’m not condoning it, but what are you doing to him is just a really ridiculous.

some kind of competition with people on message boards.

I would like to see the same thing to you.

You know Trump's people are scum but you so badly want them to walk free, all so you can declare yourself the winner. These magical aces in the holes are your mechanism for coping with loss, like none of it's real or it's all going to get overturned or pardoned and you will eventually win in the end.

Coping with loss? Lol! I do not think that at all and I don’t think all of these people are bad, the only person that I have a problem with on a limited schedule would be Manafort, other than that it’s just all so ludicrous this entire witchhunt.

But this isn't a game. If Manafort and Flynn were in our government right now the odds are good that they would be compromised right now. They would be helping to create policy that can have far-reaching implications to our country, and it's all meaningless to you. You just want to see these criminals walk so you can rush back here and proudly declare yourself the victor.

I don’t and that is why I am so vehemently opposed that Mueller chose to be a political hack and chills to look the other way regarding the last administration.

You really need to find new ways of feeling like a winner, ones that don't hurt our country. Now take that 35 years of journalism experience and repackage my comments and send them back to me.

And I’m doing exactly just that and that is the reason why I voted for this president, now you know.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I predict that if Flynn were to get Jail time, it would be less than a year.

Uh, the federal sentencing guideline was only six months - you want to sentence him longer than the guidelines suggest - is that because he is a "rat"?

Looks like Flynn’s case not only got stronger, but there’s a silver lining on that as well.

Wrong - exactly the opposite. In fact, his lawyers actually made his case much worse - rather than approve the plea deal with parole, Judge Sullivan was incensed they threw in this entrapment fairy tale...

That warning turned out to be prescient: after calling Flynn a traitor and threatening him with more prison time, Sullivan unexpectedly postponed sentencing until Flynn had completed his cooperation agreement with Mueller. “He did not follow the expected script,” Cotter admitted, hours later.

Whatever prompted Sullivan to go off-book, the suggestion by Flynn’s lawyers that their client had been the victim of entrapment, and therefore should not receive any jail time, definitely didn’t help. In a 178-page sentencing memo filed last week, they had noted that F.B.I. investigators did not warn Flynn that lying to the bureau was a felony, and that he did not have lawyers present during his questioning. Sullivan was not impressed. In court on Tuesday, the judge responded by repeatedly asking Flynn to confirm his guilty plea and giving him several opportunities to change his mind.

*“It was, obviously, a blunder for Flynn to take up the call in the conservative media that he had been entrapped, and Judge Sullivan made him eat it bite by bite and terrified him, essentially, into withdrawing any suggestion that had been latent or expressed in the memo,” Harry Litman, a former U.S. attorney, told me. “Sullivan was on the warpath.”*

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/12/robert-mueller-mike-flynn-sentencing

So your entrapment theory just went up in smoke - but more critically, explain to all of us again why Flynn's extensive cooperation with Mueller on collusion and other crimes doesn't make him a "rat"...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Uh, the federal sentencing guideline was only six months - you want to sentence him longer than the guidelines suggest - is that because he is a "rat"?

No.

Wrong - exactly the opposite.

Naw, bro...Flynn most likely won’t spend time in prison since his rights were violated.

And I will submit to you, he probably will have a lot of money coming his way in a tell all book.

That warning turned out to be prescient: after calling Flynn a traitor and threatening him with more prison time, Sullivan unexpectedly postponed sentencing until Flynn had completed his cooperation agreement with Mueller. “He did not follow the expected script,” Cotter admitted, hours later.

But it has nothing to do with his Miranda rights not being read.

Wait? Vanity Fair? Seriously? Why not just quote “Vogue”

So your entrapment theory just went up in smoke -

Actually, it didn’t, the documents and statements don’t lie unless, the Feds are even more corrupt than previously thought.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Ok, well, I think you are completely and emphatically wrong on this.

What exactly are you struggling with:

Do you understand what custody is?

Do you understand that Miranda rights are only for people who are in custody?

Do you understand that Miranda rights specifically do not apply to people who undergo voluntary questioning?

Do you understand that Flynn was not in custody?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What exactly are you struggling with:

Liberals admitting the truth.

Do you understand that Miranda rights are only for people who are in custody?

Do you understand what entrapment is? Do you understand we’re playing games are?

Do you understand that Miranda rights specifically do not apply to people who undergo voluntary questioning?

Which in that case he was strung along.

Do you understand that Flynn was not in custody?

Do you understand the Feds should’ve identified the true intentions as to what they were trying to do?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

A lot of what Judge Sullivan said concerning Flynn was nonsense, including saying what Flynn did was treasonous and that he betrayed America.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Do you understand what entrapment is? Do you understand we’re playing games are?

The only one who doesn’t understand entrapment here is you. Asking questions isn’t entrapment. Entrapment is when an LEO induces someone to commit a crime they otherwise wouldn’t. Pray tell what crime did the FBI induce Flynn to commit? He didn’t have to lie. He did that all by himself.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Do you understand what entrapment is?

Certainly. And entrapment doesn't involve being interviewed by FBI officials who identify themselves to you before starting in with the questions.

Do you understand we’re playing games are?

The question is incoherent and could be interpreted in a variety of ways, but if it's what I think you're trying to ask, unlike entrapment and Miranda rights, "playing games" doesn't have a legal definition, and bears no relevance to determining whether due process has been followed.

Which in that case he was strung along.

He wasn't in custody, so Miranda rights did not apply to Flynn. That's just basic to how Miranda rights are defined. Your inability to understand something so simple - not a strong sales point for a supposed journalist - is not the fault of the law, and won't have any effect on how the law is applied.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The only one who doesn’t understand entrapment here is you.

No, I think it’s you guys that don’t understand.

Asking questions isn’t entrapment.

When the Feds do it and then later haul you in without reading your Miranda rights, it sure is.

Entrapment is when an LEO induces someone to commit a crime they otherwise wouldn’t. Pray tell what crime did the FBI induce Flynn to commit? He didn’t have to lie. He did that all by himself

You're right and the Feds didn’t have to lie about their intentions, thus the entrapment.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/fbis-entrapment-of-general-flynn-was-despicable

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

He wasn't in custody, so Miranda rights did not apply to Flynn. That's just basic to how Miranda rights are defined. Your inability to understand something so simple - not a strong sales point for a supposed journalist

I’m not a lawyer, but sadly and apparently liberals seem to think they know everything.

https://thefederalist.com/2018/12/19/the-fbi-abused-the-law-to-keep-flynn-from-using-his-right-to-remain-silent/

is not the fault of the law, and won't have any effect on how the law is applied.

But in Flynn’s case, it did.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

I’m not a lawyer

This is definitely true.

No, I think it’s you guys that don’t understand.

I am a lawyer and I’m telling you as fact, not opinion, that Flynn wasn’t entrapped. Hell, even Flynn himself says he wasn’t. Are you now arguing that Flynn is too stupid to defend himself?

You're right and the Feds didn’t have to lie about their intentions, thus the entrapment.

They didn’t. I know that as a journalist you can’t understand the law, law enforcement agencies or how investigations work, but the FBI acted perfectly above board, and Flynn was caught lying of his own volition.

I'd tell you to check with your lawyer, but you told us before that he told you that perjury isn’t a crime. Instead I’ll tell you to get a new lawyer (I am not available).

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I’m not a lawyer

The judge is, so is Mueller.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Ah, so this is how it will play out in the right-wing media. Flynn is the victim of corrupt government agents. "Doesn't change the fact at all that the Feds entrapped Flynn." "When the Feds do it and then later haul you in without reading your Miranda rights, it sure is." "corrupt cops violated his basic civil rights"

So what they are doing is pumping out "experts" in opinion pieces bring up tidbits of legality, and in an information vacuum that becomes the entire case. I'm betting that most stories in the right-wing world are telling the story exclusively through the corruption angle.

In the real world, Flynn is cooperating with Mueller, and his sentencing keeps getting pushed back because Flynn is still helping them with ongoing investigations. Mueller is actually recommending no jail time for his substantial cooperation, so I was assuming that Flynn wasn't going to spend any time in jail at all. The judge's response made me think otherwise, but it doesn't change the fact that Mueller is recommending no jail time.

The right-wing understands that Flynn won't serve much time (if any), and what they can do is link the corruption theories to it. We can see it here:

"Former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s legal team on Tuesday night filed an extensive sentencing memo making the case for Flynn to serve probation only. And in doing so, they suggest Flynn went into the meeting with the FBI, in which he lied, with a false sense of security. "

So in the vacuum this story is about a plucky general fighting for his basic human rights against a corrupt government, and when he gets off with a light sentence (which was always going to be the case) it will be because the FBI screwed up and had to let him off lightly. And if he serves no jail time at all, I can tell you with 1000% certainty their media will focus on their manufactured corruption angle and link that to the sentencing while saying they were complete right and vindicated.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It's important to remember then you talk to Trump fans they get their information in a complete vacuum so this story is entirely different to them. They exit the bubble and post here, but remember that's the first time their information has been challenged, and it's being challenged by the people they believe are liars: liberals, the media, and government.

So bass posts some nonsense about Miranda Rights, something he's obviously been fed in the bubble, and it gets shredded 8 different ways. Since the people doing the shredding are the lying liberals who will do anything to bring down Trump and printed by the media who also wants to bring down Trump, there's not much of an impact we can have on him. His information is correct and even if he can't prove or support it, it doesn't matter because he's not going to let corrupt America hating liberals bring this country down a notch. That's when the rants start.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The judge has established Flynn's willingness to plead guilty and to be sentenced.

"It didn’t think that they would have a case and a strong case that the church probably my overturn his sentence they would have excepted to extend the sentence hearing."

??? I'm all for listening to the opinions of a "journalist" but can you please try this one again...with some clarity.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This whole thing just stinks of partisanship and back stabbing. At least U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan can be trusted to see through this FBI set up.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

This summarizes this issue well;

Heading into the hearing, Trump and his supporters were touting a story that Flynn was a victim and not a criminal, maintaining that he was railroaded by the FBI when questioned about his conversations with the Russian ambassador.

But Sullivan appeared to take exception to such arguments, since he required Flynn to state clearly in court that he was standing by his guilty plea. His move followed a filing by Flynn's lawyers last week in which they complained that their client had been pressed by then-FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe not to have a lawyer present during his FBI interview.

*Sullivan asked Flynn's attorney Robert Kelner if his client was "entrapped" by the FBI and the attorney replied: "No, your honor." *

"Are you continuing to accept responsibility for his false statements?" Sullivan asked, before Flynn broke in with the words: "I am, your honor."

"I would like to proceed, your honor," Flynn said in a later exchange.

"Because you're guilty of this offense?" Sullivan asked.

"Yes, your honor," Flynn replied.

Flynn, a career US government servant and military officer who rose to head the Defense Intelligence Agency, also told the court that he knew that lying to the FBI was a crime when he did it.

And for the sixth time, explain to all of us again why Flynn's extensive cooperation with Mueller on collusion and other crimes doesn't make him a "rat"...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Because when you agree to cooperate you do that and tell what you know truthfully, as Flynn appears to have done.

A rat makes up whatever lie or story he thinks will get him the least jail time by pleasing the people he is cooperating with.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

A rat makes up whatever lie or story he thinks will get him the least jail time by pleasing the people he is cooperating with.

Should we start using this new definition going forward?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Because when you agree to cooperate you do that and tell what you know truthfully, as Flynn appears to have done.

A rat makes up whatever lie or story he thinks will get him the least jail time by pleasing the people he is cooperating with.

Well, thank you - that's not the definition that organized crime members use - in fact, its just the opposite - a rat is someone that does truthfully cooperate (maybe to save his own skin, maybe as payback) but irrespective, he gives Prosecutors hard evidence and testimony of criminal conduct - not lies.

Both Cohen and Flynn have cooperated and provided evidence - with Flynn, according to filing documents, appearing to offer even more cooperation and evidence than Cohen.

So explain to us all again when they are both giving cooperation and evidence to Mueller, Flynn more and Cohen less, Flynn is a good guy and Cohen a rat?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

lincolnmanToday  08:38 am JST

So explain to us all again when they are both giving cooperation and evidence to Mueller, Flynn more and Cohen less, Flynn is a good guy and Cohen a rat?

It could be because Flynn isn't known to have implicated Trump is anything yet. I don't think he'll be seen as such a good guy if he starts talking the same way Cohen has been.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So explain to us all again when they are both giving cooperation and evidence to Mueller, Flynn more and Cohen less, Flynn is a good guy and Cohen a rat?

And the Trumpers silence continues...I guess they can't answer it...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Should we start using this new definition going forward?

I'm curious if any Trumpet can provide a single reference where 'rat' has had that definition ever, before they decided that's what it meant for Trump.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

When the Feds do it and then later haul you in without reading your Miranda rights, it sure is.

They're separate issues. If you are arrested, and I assume this is what you mean by "hauling in", you are protected by Miranda rights, under which you cannot be compelled to incriminate yourself. The purpose of the Miranda warning is therefore to make you aware (at the time and location of being taken into custody) of those rights, which include the right to be silent - not to answer questions, in other words.

Miranda rights apply only to people in custody; they cannot be retroactively applied to what you do before being arrested.

And this is where it becomes obvious that you hope somehow to blur the distinction between Miranda rights and entrapment, so that the resulting soupy mess can be said to apply to Flynn in some way.

The problem is that they're very obviously separate things, not intertwined, and neither of them applies to Michael Flynn. He was not tricked into committing a crime he would otherwise not have committed; he was not under the impression that the FBI officers were someone else unrelated to law enforcement; and he was not obliged or led to lie about his contacts with Russian officials when questioned about them. The lying was a crime, he knew he was lying, and he knew he was lying to FBI officers. Not only are those facts, but he has ackowledged those facts and entered a guilty plea in the presence of a judge. There isn't a hope in hell of demonstrating that entrapment occurred.

As to Miranda, we've been over it, and you've simply rejected the truth, which is that you don't get a Miranda warning if you're not in the process of being arrested. Michael Flynn was questioned in January 2017, in his office in the West Wing of the White House.

(FBI notes here: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5634528-181217-Flynn-Fbi-Notes.html#document/p1)

He wasn't arrested, which means he wasn't in custody, which means a Miranda warning was neither required nor appropriate - if anything, being given such a warning without being arrested would constitute a technical legal breach that could scupper a case against a suspect.

Since you use the term "hauled in", feel free to explain which date that occurred on, and when Flynn was released or bailed from that arrest. In other words, on which day were his Miranda rights withheld?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"a probe into Russian interference in the 2016 election"

The people calling early critics of the Steele dossier “conspiracy theorists” are the same people that believe the Russian government, with an economy equal to Italy, subverted the election process of the United States by putting Trump into office.

Trump will go down in history as the most vetted US President in American politics.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Charge him with treason, build a gallows outside the window of his cell, and tell him there's only one way to avoid the noose

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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