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Landslide democratic win in HK election raises pressure on city's leader

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By Twinnie Siu and Jessie Pang

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Only the President and VP use the Electorial system in the USA. 2 offices. The way the electorial system votes are cast is set by each state in the state's laws. There were many reasons in history for this method. Mainly because of the time required to have votes counted and sent from every state could require a month or more.

Thanks for the information.

All other US elections are 100% democratic. Governor, Senators, House, State Rep, State Senators, Dog Catcher 1 vote - 1 person.

So what you’re saying is US citizens vote directly for all but two offices. If they voted directly, Clinton would have defeated Trump.

And Chinese citizens can’t vote directly for the CCP and many, thousands of high ranking officials that are decided by the CCP.

I’d like to point out that US citizens also do not get to choose the Secretary of State or National Security Advisor or the FRB chair, do they? (not a rhetorical question, straight question.)

This seems to show that China already has democratic elements in her local elections but need to be fostered and supported by the US to be more democratic, particularly in the CCP and its selection process.

And the US could be more democratic because the system it has puts into office someone whom the people did not choose going by the one dog catcher 1 vote thinking.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Democracy is a terrible form of govt. It is inefficient, often makes terrible choices based on popular idea/polls, wastes money, wastes time, and gets messy.

But it is the best form of govt we've found anywhere.

I agree. I would hate to work in a company that operates like the US government.

I prefer a Chinese authoritarian style government but with Mother Theresa in charge with benevolence and power and civil liberties for its people.

I want a King or Queen who serves his people. He can make all the rules he wants. He is King but he takes care of his people.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I look forward to your answers

I don’t understand China. That was the point of the post and not to argue that it is a democracy.

-- What are the other political parties in PRC other than the Communist Party?

-- Can opposition parties to Communist Party be established in PRC?

There is only the CCP. Probably not.

Your questions don’t really respond to my posts.

They vote for their local leaders and hold elections. The CCP decides who can join the CCP.

Is the CCP a Nihon Kai in power? None of my questions in the post, including the last ones, were rhetorical, though it reads like it is.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The small group of people in the CCP choose China's RULERs they're not leaders because the majority of people in China did not have a voice to say who would LEAD them.

The people of Hong Kong are used to having a CHOICE in who LEADs them. Younger generation of mainland Chinese are not going to keep standing rank and file to the CCP lording decisions over them.

Old generation Chinese are stuck in the CCPs mentality thinking that they can't change things (above posts by a well known CCP propagandist shill), but the younger generations (and both young and old Hong Kongers) don't have that kind of mindset and abhore it.

Message to the CCP, "Stop try to control people, and let them CHOOSE who they want to lead the country".

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Liberate Hong Kong. Revolution Now" ?

That isn't democracy, that is treason.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

She said the party rejected her offer to resign earlier on Monday

That is cause no one wanted to take her position of main China puppet.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

They vote indirectly and electorally like the US system. If their market isn’t as open, that is trade and not necessarily communism/democracy.

Only the President and VP use the Electorial system in the USA. 2 offices. The way the electorial system votes are cast is set by each state in the state's laws. There were many reasons in history for this method. Mainly because of the time required to have votes counted and sent from every state could require a month or more.

That's also why the election is in early November, but the winners don't take office until late January - just under 3 months later. Changing that part of the US Constitution hasn't been worth the effort to Americans.

All other US elections are 100% democratic. Governor, Senators, House, State Rep, State Senators, Dog Catcher 1 vote - 1 person.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Democracy is a terrible form of govt. It is inefficient, often makes terrible choices based on popular idea/polls, wastes money, wastes time, and gets messy.

But it is the best form of govt we've found anywhere.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@quercetum,

Dies anyone understand China here? Please enlighten. It is a Communist state with capitalism and direct and indirect electoral democracy. Leaves head spinning

They vote directly in their local elections just like HK just did. They vote indirectly and electorally like the US system. If their market isn’t as open, that is trade and not necessarily communism/democracy.

We can’t vote directly for the prime minister in Japan, can we? Are we oppressed?

Oh, I think many of us fully understand the PRC and its system here.

And the idea that the system in the PRC is similar to Japan or the U.S. in terms of democracy and representing the will of the people is laughable.

Two simple questions:

-- What are the other political parties in PRC other than the Communist Party?

-- Can opposition parties to Communist Party be established in PRC?

I look forward to your answers.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The Two leaders of the Free world Trump and PM Abe will not stand for it, neither other leaders.

Correct. They won't stand, they'll bend over and grab their ankles like they always do when faced with a foe, between golfing and grifting. Trump's kids have business interests in China so don't expect him to do anything anytime soon. The irony of those two weak-minded wannabee despots standing up to anyone is tragically comical.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

117 members, sorry

1 ( +1 / -0 )

They vote directly in their local elections just like HK just did. They vote indirectly and electorally like the US system.

I think there are big differences. From what I understand, the elected councillors in Hong Kong get to choose 117 embers of a 1,200-member committee that in turn selects Hong Kong's chief executive. It doesn't sound like they have much of a say.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The Hong Kongers prove they understand and can carry out the democratic process.

This is the proper way to vent frustrations with Socialism.

Through the ballot box, not with petrol bombs and smashed windows.

I agree with the above. Putting on masks and destroying other people’sproperty is not fighting for freedom— it’s just engaging in criminal behavior without anyone taking responsibility for it.

"Give me liberty, or give me death!"

Patrick Henry

Richmond, VA, March 23, 1775

I appreciate those who can risks their lives and put their names behind their beliefs. No masks. Full names.

This puts China in an even more difficult position.

China will free all Uighurs before they’ll send in troops into HK imo. It is in their interests not to repeat Tiananmen and for all the reasons you’ve stated. They will by all means avoid that.

What does Beijing say?

There has been no official comment from Beijing. But Foreign Minister Wang Yi, speaking in Japan, reiterated that "no matter what happens, Hong Kong is a part of China".

I actually think this hits the nail right on the head. China doesn’t care what political system HK is. China just wants to say she owns HK and will forever be a part of China.

Dies anyone understand China here? Please enlighten. It is a Communist state with capitalism and direct and indirect electoral democracy. Leaves head spinning

They vote directly in their local elections just like HK just did. They vote indirectly and electorally like the US system. If their market isn’t as open, that is trade and not necessarily communism/democracy.

We can’t vote directly for the prime minister in Japan, can we? Are we oppressed?

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

This landslide victory was a huge endorsement for Democracy, for Freedom and Independence for HK. If Communist China try to deny the HK citizens these rights they voted for, it will be an International outrage as shocking as the Tiananmen square massacre of so many thousands of innocent people decades ago. The Two leaders of the Free world Trump and PM Abe will not stand for it, neither other leaders.

25 November 2019 is a moment of World History. Freedom, Democracy and Independence for Hong Kong!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The people of Hong Kong have spoken - and they've spoken against authoritarianism

They don't want a dictator dictating their lives for them

On the "1 country, 2 systems" policy, the Chinese government focuses too much on the "1 country" part and not enough on the "2 systems" part

"2 systems" means not turning HK into Little Beijing

3 ( +3 / -0 )

For how much they criticize the mainland government, people certainly don't give any credit to the Chinese government for how restrained it has been in this situation. 6+ months of violent protests, and Beijing is only recently begining to express its ire.

And why do you suppose China has restrained itself? I assure you, it's not for their own benefit. They would have preferred to have been able to shut this down quickly and quietly, before it became forefront across the entire planet.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The government would "listen to the opinions of members of the public humbly and seriously reflect", Lam said.

It's too easy to be cynical. I can imagine a response after "reflection". Something like this:

"After reflecting on this, it's clear we have failed the people of Hong Kong. For that I apologize. In response we will invest more heavily in Hong Kong, in particular in the area of education. We will ensure that every person in Hong Kong has access to education where they can more fully learn the meaning of the Chinese Dream and how they can make a valuable contribution to it."

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

This puts China in an even more difficult position. The people have been clear about how they they feel. Until now, the CCP has been able to use the "fog of war" - the lack of a clear qualification on how the people of HK actually felt - as part of their anti-HK propaganda. But now that the people have not only spoken, but spoken loudly and clearly, it makes it harder for China to jump in and step on the protestors and HK. Doing so is an attack on people who have clearly stated they are not willing to live under CCP rule. That would make such an act, and aggressive act of war. Staring a war works against Chinese interests, as it destroys the image they've been attempting to build of benevolent dictator. Starting a war on HK would be the act of an aggressive dictator, not a benevolent one.

The people of HK, by standing strong an in unity, have shown that the people can in fact stand their ground against those who would attempt to rule unfairly.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

For how much they criticize the mainland government, people certainly don't give any credit to the Chinese government for how restrained it has been in this situation.

I guess if you consider that they usually deal with any disturbance by running over people with tanks or locking up a million people then yes, they have been 'restrained'. But let's be honest, it's not because they don't want to, it's because everyone is watching.

I think Hong Kong needs to recognize that they're not part of Britain anymore.

Judging by these elections it would be more relevant to state that Hong Kong doesn't really want to be part of China anymore.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

HK was a colony. no freedoms

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

If allowed to choose, people prefer freedom to dictatorship? That must be a big surprise to dictator Xi.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

For how much they criticize the mainland government, people certainly don't give any credit to the Chinese government for how restrained it has been in this situation. 6+ months of violent protests, and Beijing is only recently begining to express its ire. I think Hong Kong needs to recognize that they're not part of Britain anymore.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

These young people look so happy and full of hope.

I agree. The Chinese Communist Party nabobs must fear young people. And they should. The young in Hong Kong are probably better educated and more traveled than those in power in Beijing. The young have an awareness of what lies ahead if even more of their individual freedoms are taken away.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

From the BBC, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50541627

What does Beijing say?

There has been no official comment from Beijing. But Foreign Minister Wang Yi, speaking in Japan, reiterated that "no matter what happens, Hong Kong is a part of China".

"Any attempt to mess up Hong Kong, or even damage its prosperity and stability, will not succeed," he said.

State media outlets have been cautious in reporting the results.

State news agency Xinhua has yet to report the results. Meanwhile, the English edition of state-backed tabloid Global Times attributed the result to the "abnormal" circumstances which made it easier for the pro-democracy camp to mobilise their voters.

It also alleged that "western forces" have been supporting the opposition.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

These young people look so happy and full of hope.

One Chinese government minister looked so angry on TV.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Do the hustle:

No surprises here. Hong Kong was a democracy until it was given back to the Chinese from England in the year 2,000. I’m actually surprised it has taken this long for things to explode.

It took this long because the Peking dictators originally respected the HK 50 year agreement, and many naive people (inside HK and outside) thought that they would continue to do so until 2047. But since the CCP blatantly broke that promise with their increased meddling and especially with the extradition law, they now woke up to reality.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

the Chinese classify the whole Uighur population as terrorists?

Does that surprise you?

The CCP classify their entire population, including their own card carrying members as a social experiment during the 'Great Leap Forward' era that saw 60 millions Chinese starved or tortured to death.

Fast forward a few decades, they supported the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia who classify the entire Cambodian population as evil capitalists and systematically killed millions of them.

They are still on the path of 'beat them harder and harder until they submit' as you can see in HK.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

juminRhee, the Chinese classify the whole Uighur population as terrorists?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Expat:

If China ever admits of them, they will bring up American internment camps for Japanese and equate the two. And Gitmo. They do classify them as terrorists.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

What HK Democracy protesters know awaits if the HK govt ever has the opportunity to deport them -

'Allow no escapes': leak exposes reality of China's vast prison camp network

The internal workings of a vast chain of Chinese internment camps used to detain at least a million people from the nation’s Muslim minorities are laid out in leaked Communist Party documents published on Sunday. The China Cables, a cache of classified government papers, appear to provide the first official glimpse into the structure, daily life and ideological framework behind centres in north-western Xinjiang region that have provoked international condemnation. Obtained by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) and shared with the Guardian, the BBC and 15 other media partners, the documents have been independently assessed by experts who have concluded they are authentic. China said they had been “fabricated”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/24/china-cables-leak-no-escapes-reality-china-uighur-prison-camp

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Vive Hong Kong Libre!!!!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@nandakandamanda

Agreed. It's like this old communist guard has put on a lot of make up to try and look different in the eyes of a suspicious world, but, beneath China's freshly added frosting, it's still on the same mission as it was before.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The problem is that the Chinese leadership does not respect the concept of democracy, which has 'failed' in their eyes. China sees a different future for the world, under a system which ignores and pushes aside all other possible political or religious systems.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

"Give me liberty, or give me death!"

Patrick Henry

Richmond, VA, March 23, 1775

This looks like such a moment in the future direction of Hong Kong. Hopefully, this struggle of theirs will be beneficial to them in the end.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

A great turnout. Loud and clear from the people of Hong Kong.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Very good and a great day for democracy, let’s hope Beijing respects the process, I have my doubts, but I pray that they do.

China listens to no one. If someone says they have an unfavorable opinion of China, China simply says 'you are uneducated about China.'

I have feeling this is simply cover for China in the near future to say 'see, elections were held and there is STILL violence....clearly democracy is not helping anyone in Hong Kong. It's time for China/Beijing to 'help' stabilize things in Hong Kong'.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

If China is meddling, how can you have the election ? Unless China is supporting it.

They didn't have a choice.

China has been anti-democracy since the return of the SARs.

An alleged Chinese spy has defected to Australia and revealed intricate details about China's intelligence agencies, including names of agents and information about operations in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Australia.

This included information about Chinese efforts to meddle in Taiwan's elections and to infiltrate Hong Kong's pro-democracy movement. He also claimed to be involved in the disappearance of five booksellers in Hong Kong who had published work critical of Beijing.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/australianz/chinese-defector-to-australia-details-beijings-alleged-intel-ops

The pro-Democracy representatives need to take their oath, so they aren't blocked from representing their people as has happened previously.

They need to change the laws which control how the different leaders are selected throughout the SAR

and

they need to get Carrie Lam out and not allow any appointed by Xi puppet into that role.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Great news HK!!!

However let's keep our expectations realistic, the rulers in Beijing will never let democracy succeed and will find ways to subvert the process.

Like an electoral college...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Well done to the people of HK, they ensured the election was peaceful.

However let's keep our expectations realistic, the rulers in Beijing will never let democracy succeed and will find ways to subvert the process.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

And it was returned in 1997...and democracy was only given in the 80s upon reaching an agreement with China. Not sure if they ever got full responsible govt (parliamentary).

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Very good and a great day for democracy, let’s hope Beijing respects the process, I have my doubts, but I pray that they do.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

I hope world governments give these freedom fighters their support. Time for Chinese to breathe some freedom. Good going Hong Kong.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

HK will never be a Colony again, that is final answer.

Indeed, hopefully the result has sent a clear message to the would be colonizers in Beijing.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

Congrats HK. Hopefully the Socialists will take note and dial back their restrictions on freedom.

Er, socialists are not restricting freedom in HK, the Chinese regime is.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Well done to the citizens of HK indeed.

I hope that's what happens here too in 2020. 

Yeah, I hope too but unfortunately the chances are minimal, LDP,s has spent decades perfecting the system here to ensure their dominance.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

HK will never be a Colony again, that is final answer.

-20 ( +1 / -21 )

No surprises here. Hong Kong was a democracy until it was given back to the Chinese from England in the year 2,000. I’m actually surprised it has taken this long for things to explode.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

We the People.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

Hong Kong shock waves rattle the establishment boat firing a broadside at Beijing.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

If China is meddling, how can you have the election ?

Very simple... this:

"Hong Kong's district councils control some spending and decide a range of local livelihood issues such as transport. They also serve as an important grassroots platform to radiate political influence in the China-ruled city."

In other words, these district council positions have no real power in Hong Kong. They are, as noted, symbolic and powerless. Beijing doesn't fear them because they mean nothing. It's like someone electing an avowed libertarian or communist to the position of county dog catcher.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Culture of lies are the world problems.

Not sure what you mean: good grammar might clarify, but looking in the mirror would be even more to the point.

Simple question: why believe the word of government (especially an undemocratic one) when history has indicated the folly of gullibility?

8 ( +9 / -1 )

If China is as smart and pragmatic a country as the Chinese think it is, then they should take notice of this result, step back from the current policy of confrontation with the protesters, lean on Carrie Lam to step down, and start again - listening to the people this time, instead of trying to wreck the agreement made when Hong Kong was handed over by the Brits, that HK would have autonomy until 2049.

The people have spoken, but the problem is that China doesn't have a good history of listening to them.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Who is really meddling in HK ?

-23 ( +1 / -24 )

Take that Lam and fellow Commies!

Freedom and Democracy for HK! If the corrupt HK "government", thug police andanddont their Commie Beijing paymasters dont accept the will of the people, expect the freedom fighters to take to the streets again.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

"Demonstrators are angry at what they see as Chinese meddling in the freedoms promised to the former British colony when it returned to Chinese rule in 1997. They say they are also responding to perceived police brutality" ?

If China is meddling, how can you have the election ? Unless China is supporting it.

-24 ( +1 / -25 )

Very good HongKong! Now, the next step is that Carrie Lam must be humble and finally resign.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

An awesome result!!

Unfortunately, this will only harden Beijing's stance against Hong Kong.

They know all too well that, if Hong Kong had full democracy, with elections for ALL legislators in Legco and for the Chief Executive, they would lose control.

The people of Hong Kong would choose representatives that put the interests of Hong Kongers ahead of the interests of Beijing.

And THAT is absolutely unacceptable to Beijing.

CE Carrie Lam will mouth words of "respecting the people", but then she will go on with carrying out the orders of Beijing as their puppet.

And in the coming days, weeks and months, watch for Beijing to use every covert measure at its disposal to further erode the autonomy of Hong Kong and the 1 country, 2 systems framework.

17 ( +17 / -0 )

This is good news.

Especially to those who believe in democratic principles. It must be worrying to those pushing big state uber alles like the authoritarian systems found in China, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, etc. as they watch the majority of people voting for greater freedoms, especially freedom from excessive state control. Free elections and a free press are essential to maintaining the few personal freedoms individuals have left; except perhaps to those individuals who want big brother to make decisions for them. For example trolls (aka pond scum) paid by their states to attack democracies.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

The bullet or the ballot.But only in a democracy. Unfortunately this election result will mean nothing to the mainland. Integrating H.K.by any means necessary,sooner than scheduled,is the goal. I'm sure,Taiwan is nervously watching, because potentially they're up next

16 ( +16 / -0 )

I'm so glad to see the people of Hong Kong showing up in record turn-outs to vote. I hope that's what happens here too in 2020. 

Voting in high numbers is the only non-violent way to express your opinion...

My hope is that the people stay safe and the integrity of their votes are maintained.

19 ( +20 / -1 )

Well done.

This is the proper way to vent frustrations with Socialism.

Through the ballot box, not with petrol bombs and smashed windows.

Congrats HK. Hopefully the Socialists will take note and dial back their restrictions on freedom.

-14 ( +8 / -22 )

This is good news. It will breathe new life into the pro democracy protests, and put to rest the China proponents who have been trying to pretend like the HK people don’t fully support separation from China. Aka freedom.

27 ( +27 / -0 )

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