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Major European nations suspend use of AstraZeneca vaccine

68 Comments
By FRANK JORDANS

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This is concerning.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

It's good to be cautious, but the incidence of blood clots is lower in vaccinated people than in those who haven't had the vaccine. The article headline could be rewritten as: 'AstraZeneca vaccine reduces your risk of blood clots'.

8 ( +17 / -9 )

So, countries are so concerned about the effects of certain vaccines making people sick that suspensions are necessary, is another way of looking at it...

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

In the UK 15 millions of this vaccination given without any cases of blood clotting.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

reports of dangerous blood clots in some recipients

More and more problems are coming up with the vaccines.

The vaccines dont seem as safe as some so called experts and specialists want to tell us.

More and more I understand why people hesitate to take this vaccine.

I think it is time for me to think twice if and when I should take it.

-9 ( +9 / -18 )

The Pfizer vaccine is responsible for many more hospitalizations and deaths, in Europe, at least.

Considering a country like Ireland was already facing a shortage of vaccines, this is quite a telling development indeed.

-7 ( +10 / -17 )

The Pfizer vaccine is responsible for many more hospitalizations and deaths, in Europe, at least.

If this is true, than I really better think twice if I take the vaccine or not.

-10 ( +7 / -17 )

"Listen to the experts!" takes on a little different meaning with these countries putting a hiatus on that vaccine.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

The vaccines dont seem as safe as some so called experts and specialists want to tell us.

Vaccines only seem to be not safe if you don't understand the numbers and make false correlations. If not vaccinated people have more problems than vaccinated people how does that makes you conclude the vaccine is the cause of the problems?

The Pfizer vaccine is responsible for many more hospitalizations and deaths, in Europe, at least.

Pulling things out of the air is not a valid argument, there is no serious problems that have been presented in vaccinated people in a higher rate than in non-vaccinated people.

Do you have any reference that proves the vaccines are responsible? (not suspected and then cleared as has been the case?) or are we just supposed to believe you even if the experts contradict you?

10 ( +18 / -8 )

If this is true, than I really better think twice if I take the vaccine or not.

The above shows one of the dangers of social media: even partially accepting the words of a random internet poster, especially posts from anonymous users who've told so many tuckercarlsons. Wouldn't it be nice to think the poster who asked the question would do some research himself beyond public forums - if he really is worried.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Dont missunderstand me here.

I am a pro vaxer, but I am not on a non stop vaccine promotion tour here like other people.

I dont stick nonstop to data or scientific reports.

I am sticked to reality.

And if health problems, deaths, or whatever are reported now almost daily, nobody can deny that.

This is a fact and reality!

I guess, I will take the vaccine, but more and more I understand that the risk is not so low like all the so called experts are telling us.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

AstraZeneca said there have been 37 reports of blood clots out of more than 17 million people vaccinated in the 27-country EU and Britain. 

37 reports out of 17 million? And no conclusive evidence that the medication is the cause of the clots?

I understand about an "abundance of caution" but you're just giving the anti-vaxxers ammo that just isn't compelling or even verified. Dangerous.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

And if health problems, deaths, or whatever are reported now almost daily, nobody can deny that.

Cites?

8 ( +12 / -4 )

I dont stick nonstop to data or scientific reports.

And that is precisely the problem. The data is clear, vaccinated people do not stop being people, so they will have the same health problems as non-vaccinated people, but instead of accepting this you immediately jump to the illogical conclusion that any problem that a vaccinated people has must be related to the vaccine.

Someone that wants to be rational, honest, informed would make an effort to understand the situation instead of jumping to invalid conclusions, specially when they have been proved to be invalid (since you have not refuted this argument it means you have accepted it).

There is nothing wrong with saying that it is negative to willingly avoid being rational.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

In fact, it said the incidence of clots is much lower than would be expected to occur naturally in a general population of this size and is similar to that of other licensed COVID-19 vaccines.

they should show the data for these assertions otjerwise people wouldnt believe them

1 ( +2 / -1 )

In fairness, this is not an article from a rando on social media, governments are putting it on hold. I am not arguing that the side effects are meaningful or not, but this direction is coming from "experts" that we have been told to listen to.

Or maybe these are the wrong experts? Probably.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

And I was bamboozled when I said I was NOT going to take the shot until I know it is safe. Shall we all agree that the vaccines require more testing?

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

In fairness, this is not an article from a rando on social media, governments are putting it on hold. I am not arguing that the side effects are meaningful or not, but this direction is coming from "experts" that we have been told to listen to.

There is no contradiction, the experts have concluded the vaccines are safe and effective, enough to be used in the population, but if anything is reported the only responsible thing to do is to momentarily stop the immunization, investigate the reports as fast as possible, and if they are found to be false alarms (as until now) resume immunization as soon as posible.

One thing is to conclude there is no reason to think the vaccine is unsafe, another completely different is to automatically reject (without any investigation) any report that contradicts this conclusion.

Antivaxxer propaganda always says that "big pharma" has the whole world in a conspiracy to make money by pushing unsafe vaccines, and that they hide all and every information that proves there is any danger, but in reality this is what happens, doctors and scientist are on the look for any kind of unexpected problem, immediately go public with something that may be dangerous, immunizations are stopped until the situation is clearly evaluated, and if things are fine go ahead again.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

And I was bamboozled when I said I was NOT going to take the shot until I know it is safe. Shall we all agree that the vaccines require more testing?

Yes. I think that you shouldn't get it for a few years. Wait and see.

Just to be clear though, I'm only advising you of that. I'm going to get it myself.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

For all medicines we take we have a risk.

There is no medicine without any risk. But we always take it.

But I never take something without reading first the side effect letter in the medicine package.

Or, what I am doing here in japan, talk first with my doctor and the pharmacist about possible side effects.

And after I weigh the risk, I will decide to take it or not.

And that is the same with the Covid vaccine.

I am weighing the risks.

But this vaccine is new, so I depend on “reality” reports.

And nobody can deny that these days, the reality shows some risks (except the media is lying), which seems to get more and more since the start of the vaccination roll out programs in different countries.

Of course, everybody should weigh the risks by themselves, according to his or her own accepted “risk level”, to take the vaccine or not.

Until my time comes to get the vaccine, it will be probably here in Japan end of the year.

Until then, I will continue to check how the "reality" goes on with the vaccine, then I will talk to my doctor and then I will decide what to do.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Virusrex - yep doing the responsible thing, glad they are not blinded and are looking into it.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Hope it is a false alarm and everthing continues for those that need and want the vaccine.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

these rushed to market experimental “vaccines” are not safe

no long term studies have been not

if you get the jab you are the experiment

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

But this vaccine is new, so I depend on “reality” reports.

The problem is that instead of using the best kind of "reality" reports available to humanity you go directly to rumors and biased reports.

The media do not have to be lying, read again this article, it is clearly mentioned "Many thousands of people develop blood clots annually in the EU for different reasons,” the European Medicines Agency said. The incidence in vaccinated people "seems not to be higher than that seen in the general population." It is you ignoring half of what you read and keeping the other half what makes you think there is an increment of risks the more the vaccine is being used.

In reality reports are made of possible side effects, they get investigated, found not related to the vaccine and discarded. But for you each report automatically becomes a confirmed side effect, so instead of discarding the false alarms you keep accumulating them and thinking there are more and more every day.

That is not logical, you are inflating the risk yourself by only accepting information that makes that risk appear higher and automatically discarding the information that corrects that and eliminate imaginary risks.

Obviously everybody should weight the risks by themselves, but if someone is doing it in an irrational way (only accepting half of the information) there is nothing wrong with saying it, it will be your freedom if you want to do things rationally or not.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

And I was bamboozled when I said I was NOT going to take the shot until I know it is safe. Shall we all agree that the vaccines require more testing?

No, that is an invalid conclusion, specially when the reports keep being proved to be false alarms.

these rushed to market experimental “vaccines” are not safe

no long term studies have been not

if you get the jab you are the experiment

The vaccine clinical trials were not rushed, and have stopped being experimental from months ago, the risks for short, medium and long term are lower than the COVID infection and no, people are being immunized to get the therapeutical and preventive value of the vaccine not to get data.

If anybody is the experiment that would be the people that refuse vaccination, at some point it will be necessary to compare the dangers of the new strains that have appeared (and will keep doing it until the pandemic is controlled) against the dangers of the classical strains, unvaccinated people are going to be the ones that provide that data.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

The fact is that billions will be getting the vaccine. If kills them, then it will be the end of days. At that point, good luck. Enjoy the road warrior life and the other diseases while the world collapses around you. The good news is that you'll be able to tell people you were right about the vaccine while you're huddled over the fire.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

How many blood clot cases have there been for the other makers? Is there a comparative?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

"Big Pharma" will call dissenting views "antivaxxer" and promote the fact that these incidents rarely happen and IF NEGATIVE ADVERSE EVENTS DO HAPPEN THEN IT IS NOT THE VACCINE (probably due to old age OR they were already infected with COVID19).

Does the vaccine even help? It sure does! Reduces cough and headache symptoms IF and ONLY IF you get COVID19 BUT you will need to experience risks (see below), take 2-3 shots annually because this unnatural "immune response" doesn't last for very long and still mask up / lock down like everyone else. Like an injectable NyQuil with adverse events.

The general public is mostly unaware that there is COVID19 vaccine voluntarily reported reaction data information available: US Government VAERS Data (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System) provided directly to CDC / FDA each week:

https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=CAT&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID1

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

First off, that the alarm bells are going off, and the brakes applied, over reports that amount to a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the vaccinations show how closely monitored these vaccines are.

Second though is that because blood clots are not rare, especially amongst the elderly, there is a possibility that there are cases that weren't originally reported as being associated with receiving a vaccination

Thirdly, the suspension, whether temporary and unjustified, or long term because it is a real issue, might be enough to overcome the POLITICAL (or geopolitical if you prefer) roadblocks that have prevented EU states and the EU as a whole from approving the safe Sputnik-V vaccine for use.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Really, failure to rollout a comprehensive vaccination programme is frankly criminally irresponsible.

Every member of my UK family over fifty years of age have ben vaccinated.

I cannot precisely give numbers whether these vaccinations were either AstraZeneca, or Pfizer-BioNTech. Some experienced fatigue, others joint pain, undoubtedly the vaccine saved their lives.

The European Medicines Agency has categorically stated, pausing vaccination roll-out is inherently reckless and could entail dire consequences.

All 27 member states are on the cusp of a devastating third wave of infection.

Both the WHO, Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (UK) have stated unequivocally AstraZeneca's vaccine has no increased risk of blood clot conditions.

The EU commission is not at fault here.

it is easy, convenient, to point the finger of blame at the EU,

No!, the sole responsibly for the inevitable spread of the covic-19 variants, and the fatalities sure to follow, lies with the Political leadership of all 27 member states, that have decided a course of political points scoring over that citizen’s lives     

COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca: PRAC investigating cases of thromboembolic events - vaccine’s benefits currently still outweigh risks - Update 

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-prac-investigating-cases-thromboembolic-events-vaccines-benefits

3 ( +6 / -3 )

"Big Pharma" will call dissenting views "antivaxxer" and promote the fact that these incidents rarely happen and IF NEGATIVE ADVERSE EVENTS DO HAPPEN THEN IT IS NOT THE VACCINE (probably due to old age OR they were already infected with COVID19).

As every time you copy-paste this comment that is still false, people using false, misleading and irrational reasons to try and convince others vaccines are unsafe is what is validly called antivaxxer.

"The vaccinated people have less problems than unvaccinated people" Oh! that means the problems are caused by the vaccine!!! (???)

The vaccine has been demonstrated to reduce symptoms and complications, and since death do not happen the same to all infected people independently if they have symptoms or not it is completely valid to say the vaccines already have proved to reduce mortality (unless you can prove asymptomatic people die the same as those that have to go to the ICU?)

There is no credible possibility that 2-3 annual shots are ever going to be necessary, of course you could give a reference to prove this, but since you never do (and people are just supposed to believe you on this) I better not hold my breath.

The general public is mostly unaware that there is COVID19 vaccine voluntarily reported reaction data information available: US Government VAERS Data (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System) provided directly to CDC / FDA each week:

And the same criticism that always disqualify this copy-pasted comment, VAERS becomes useful only after the negative reactions are compared with the non-vaccinated population.

At this point no important problem included in VAERS have been observed to be higher in incidence when compared with non-vaccinated people. For a rational person that would clearly indicate the vaccine is not the cause of the problems (the cause is being an alive human being), for the few exceptions that refuse to accept this very simple fact this comparison that proves their point false will simply get ignored without ever being refuted, and the comment copy-pasted again elsewhere just to be proved false as easily over and over again.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

, lies with the Political leadership of all 27 member states, that have decided a course of political points scoring over that citizen’s lives   

I agree it was mostly a political decision by each nation's leaders.

Thing is, even if we take it for granted that the bloodclots were a side effect of the vaccine, stopping or even just delaying the vaccinations will most probably lead to far more lives lost.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Yet another Astra Zeneca vaccine scare story. It’s bizarre. No evidence to suggest the vaccine causes clots, yet again countries are falling over themselves to stop using it. Why? What next, The Astra Zeneca vaccine makes you grow another head?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Many people here want to stop the vaccinations altogether, ostensibly because of the danger to peoples lives.

But you already know what happens if there are no vaccines.

Millions have already died.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

https://fb.watch/4fIIVAKZJz/ Protests in the UK

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Project fear just keeps giving, though you were safe, nah that was too easy,, gates and his buddies must be laughing their socks off as we all fall for it, again.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

LudditeToday 09:17 am JST

Yet another Astra Zeneca vaccine scare story. It’s bizarre. No evidence to suggest the vaccine causes clots, yet again countries are falling over themselves to stop using it. Why? What next, The Astra Zeneca vaccine makes you grow another head?

It's weird, isn't it. Ireland’s deputy chief medical officer, Ronan Glynn, said there was no proof at all that the vaccine caused the blood clots. No blood clots in the millions of people given the shot in the UK, where many more experts have said exactly the same thing. This decision is just playing into the hands of the nutters, as we can see from the ridiculous untruths already posted in this thread.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

@Monty

I dont stick nonstop to data or scientific reports.

I am sticked to reality.

Where exactly do you think data and scientific reports come from? Science is inherently based on the observation of reality, it isn't a set of ideologies in itself. As understanding of reality changes, so does the science around it.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

If you vaccinate millions of people, some of those people will have existing health problems that are not associated with the vaccine. And it's likely that most people who have been vaccinated will be monitoring their health much more closely than usual.

Using terms like 'safe' or 'unsafe' doesn't get you anywhere. Individual responses to medication differ. Penicillin gives me severe diarrhea. That doesn't make it 'unsafe' and shouldn't put you off taking it. I can take an alternative antibiotic, one which is often cited in online forums as being responsible for really bad side effects. I get no side effects at all with it.

Any medication, even after extensive testing, is expected to produce a small percentage of adverse reactions, typically allergic responses, headaches and nausea. Information is provided with your meds to explain what to watch out for. This is normal. This is how medicine works, across the board. Read the info sheet for any medicine, even the most benign, and the often long list of common, scarce and rare side effects may shock you. But it shouldn't put you off taking medicine that will cure you, relieve your pain or vaccinate you. Adverse reactions are rare (as the numbers detailed in this article note).

Media reports often distort the perception of stats. You are hearing news stories about 37 clot reports, against 16,999,963 jabs where there was no clot report. If an autonomous vehicle is involved in an RTA, it makes the news globally. The thousands of (often deadly) RTAs that happen every day do not make the news around the world. Trust the numbers, not the distorting effects of the media's magnifying focus.

I do not trust or like my government, but I shall be going for my AZ jab when it is offered to me.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

i@n,

I agree that the development of a vaccine has been rushed, the necessity to roll out a policy that would halt the spread took precedence.

The economic cost is yet to be fully realized.

The political consequences determine the stakes couldn’t be higher.

German federal election to be held on 26 September 2021. French presidential elections between 8 and 23 April 2022.

Covid-19 policy, the handling of the pandemic, could be a crucial element in who will be holding/pulling the levers of power in Government.

It would be politically naïve not to believe that UK withdrawal, the pandemic, will not have consequences to future EU integration.

The roll out of a Vaccine is paramount to public political opinion. So could well reflect/swing citizen’s vote at the ballot box.

That, I believe is the political motivation driving European countries to suspend roll-out of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

The hysterical types out in force again. The media loves these types.

So easy to get on the hook.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

"An increasing number of European countries — including Germany, France, Italy and Spain — suspended use of AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine Monday over reports of dangerous blood clots in some recipients,"

Well, I guess we are not going to be seeing anymore comments about how slow Japan's vaccination is going. Japan's cautious approach has now been proven to be the correct one. Good Job J government. As always, you made the right call.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

I am willing enough to criticise the EU when it is justified but in this instance they are not to blame but the irrational knee jerk reaction of politicians at the national level who obviously are not listening to or do not understand what is being said by the scientific experts.

Political point scoring and sour grapes? Sadly yes I suspect there is an element in this. But I sincerely hope their respective electorates hold them accountable for endangering and quite possibly sacrificing their lives on the alter of their political ego’s.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

"It's good to be cautious, but the incidence of blood clots is lower in vaccinated people than in those who haven't had the vaccine."

@You are right. The headline here is misleading based on the data.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Some people here are on a vaccine promotion tour.

That is OK, because I am also a Pro-Vaxer.

But what some people are doing is to downplay or even ignore the risks these vaccines brings.

And downplaying and ignoring those risks is very very dangerous.

Nobody should recommend a vaccine or a medicine by all means. Especially without taking risks in considerations.

Everybody who decides to take this vaccine should understand that there are risks.

But I guess that most of the people understand that, and that everyone is clever enough to weigh the risks for his or her personal “situation”, before taking the vaccine.

Weighing the risks don’t automatically mean that I don’t take the vaccine.

But to take any medicine or any vaccine by all means, is completely foolish.

That is my opinion.

But like I said everyone can decide by themselves.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

these rushed to market experimental “vaccines” are not safe

no long term studies have been not

if you get the jab you are the experiment

You definitely shouldn't get it. They haven't done tests to make sure it doesn't give you AIDS. Just think, if you take this vaccine, you could get AIDS!

Better to get covid and see how it pans out.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

But what some people are doing is to downplay or even ignore the risks these vaccines brings.

Nobody is doing that, this conclusion is again consequence of your bias.

Something is noticed, so it is investigated, nobody knows if it is or not related to the vaccines, but for you it already became a risk, and will remain so even after being found not to be related to the vaccines. That is not rational nor positive

Science is the tool that let us know if something is increased or not in the vaccinated population, but you made the choice to ignore what science says in order to keep your bias, that is again not a valid position to take.

One think is to accept there may be some hidden risks that have not been identified yet, so it is useful to keep an eye, but what you propose is to consider anything noticed as a confirmed risk, even when it can be safely discarded.

So yes, you are right in weighting risks, but the part where you are wrong is in including everything as a risk even when proved otherwise. You can still decide, but your decision is not based on a rational process, so there is nothing wrong with telling it so.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

I am a pro vaxer, but I am not on a non stop vaccine promotion tour here like other people.

and who is doing that on here, yes people refering to children not vaccinated against a number a diseases, but as an adult when was the last time you were vaccinated.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Good Job J government. As always, you made the right call.

lol and how about all those athletes coming to Japan not required to be vaccinated , or limiting standiums to 20000 people because thats the limit that covid doesnt spread, you know Japanese dont get covid...much!?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I agree that people should weigh the risks. But these risks will vary depending on where you live.

If you live in an area where anyone who tests positive is immediately taken care of with a certain safe and effective treatment, then the overall death rate is about 0.07% (all ages). And if you are young and healthy, that percentage goes down significantly.

If however, you live in an area where officials have been bullied/bribed to reject these treatments, then you might want to consider getting one of these vaccines, or move.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

If you live in an area where anyone who tests positive is immediately taken care of with a certain safe and effective treatment, then the overall death rate is about 0.07% (all ages). And if you are young and healthy, that percentage goes down significantly.

You have never been able to provide a reference for that supposed survival rate. Pulling out of thin air imaginary death rates is not an argument.

But even if it were, approved vaccines have a death rate much lower than that. That would mean that it is still the only logical choice.

There are no actual effective treatments that are not widely recognized as such and used routinely to treat patients, this include dirt cheap drugs like dexamethasone.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Alfie NoakesToday  09:27 am JST

LudditeToday 09:17 am JST

Yet another Astra Zeneca vaccine scare story. It’s bizarre. No evidence to suggest the vaccine causes clots, yet again countries are falling over themselves to stop using it. Why? What next, The Astra Zeneca vaccine makes you grow another head?

It's weird, isn't it. Ireland’s deputy chief medical officer, Ronan Glynn, said there was no proof at all that the vaccine caused the blood clots. No blood clots in the millions of people given the shot in the UK, where many more experts have said exactly the same thing. This decision is just playing into the hands of the nutters, as we can see from the ridiculous untruths already posted in this thread.

Yes, if you had a suspicious mind you could believe that someone is deliberately trying to discredit the AZ vaccine by spreading unproven but suitably alarming lies and misinformation about it. Now, why would anyone want to do that. Hmmmmmmm.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

But what some people are doing is to downplay or even ignore the risks these vaccines brings.

Absolutely. That is why governments of certain nations (that Pharma has influence and control over) are taking a hard look at the data and negative adverse events that are happening:

As of March 12th, 2021 Switzerland, Austria, Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Estonia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Latvia, and Italy have now to stopped the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine due to "of possible serious side effects" and life threatening blood clots.

Germany and France now too? Thailand too? Total 13 countries so far. Pharma says this is perfectly normal. Even after Phase 3 trials they still need to suspend the use of the vax? I thought all the kinks were worked out already. Guess not cause we're still in the "testing" phase.

Australian Health Minister develops severe case of cellulitis just two days after AstraZeneca shot

"While the definitive claim that his condition is “not considered to be related to the vaccine” was made almost immediately by Hunt’s office, medical research into cellulitis following various vaccines including Pneumococcal, Influenza, and DTaP is well-documented." But he's still pushing for the roll-out.

Estimated survival rate across age groups from last year (even better now which is incredible!):

Here are those estimates, stated as the percentage of all those infected (symptomatic and asymptomatic) who are surviving (old data from 5 months ago and it is generalized without breaking down comorbidities and health level):

0-19: Years 99.997% (even less risk for children)

20-49: Years 99.98%

50-69: Years 99.5%

70-79: *94.6% (**80+ not included)

Data Source: CDC (remember that this is 5 months ago and survival rates have definitely improved since then)

Quite amazing. People are actually surviving and building natural immunity (WHO and Pharma now downplaying the effectiveness of the immune system and these ineffective injections as the ONLY OPTION)! Who would have thought? Mainstream news would have you believe this is ebola by reporting the cases going up (prepping people for the jab - sell the fear like their is no tomorrow).

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

@itsonlyrocknroll

Today  10:09 am JST

i@n,

I agree that the development of a vaccine has been rushed, the necessity to roll out a policy that would halt the spread took precedence.

I agree with everything else in your post, thanks for treshing out some details, but im not of the opinion that the vaccines we have now were rushed. They were certainly fast-tracked but saying rushed implies corners were cut and correct processes not adhered to.

I might be mistaken of course, wouldnt be the first time

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Absolutely. That is why governments of certain nations (that Pharma has influence and control over) are taking a hard look at the data and negative adverse events that are happening:

And why left out that until now nobody has ever found an increase of incidence when comparing with the non-vaccinated population.

In this same article it is written perfectly clear that the suspension is an excess of caution and that there is no evidence of the vaccines causing anything, if anything the vaccine appears to prevent those negative outcomes. According to your faulty reasoning that would mean that vaccines also protect people from life endangering clots.

Here are those estimates, stated as the percentage of all those infected (symptomatic and asymptomatic) who are surviving (old data from 5 months ago and it is generalized without breaking down comorbidities and health level):

And every targeted group can see an increase of survival rates thanks to vaccination because the reduction of risk do not replace the natural immunity but acts on top of it.

So if someone in the group of 20-49 has 2 in 10,000 chances of dying from the infection after vaccination it would have 1 in 100,000 chances of dying (or even less)

Someone on the 50-59 years that have 1 in 200 chances of death now would have at much 1 in 4,000,

A person on 70-79% would change from 1 in 20 chances to dying go all the way up to 1 in 400, that is a huge reduction of risk

So no, nobody needs to downplay the natural immunity, it is simply much better to add the protective effect of the vaccine (that protects up to 95% of the people that would have died, and likely even more). 2 and a half million people have died without a vaccine, only someone highly irrational would suggest this is fine and should continue just because it cannot accept the objective scientific data of the vaccines safety and efficacy.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Pulling things out of the air is not a valid argument, there is no serious problems that have been presented in vaccinated people in a higher rate than in non-vaccinated people. 

Do you have any reference that proves the vaccines are responsible? (not suspected and then cleared as has been the case?) or are we just supposed to believe you even if the experts contradict you?

per journalist Alex Berenson, who knows more about Covid in his fingernail;

the AstraZeneca vaccine has 54,571 adverse events reported in Europe so far, including at least 198 deaths (63 cardiac)

The Pfizer mRNA vaccine has 102,100, including at least 957 deaths (276 cardiac)

And this is with a similar number of doses given.

Stop peddling your misinformation please. You are putting lives at risk.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

so the obvious question remains, why has the Pfizer vaccine not been suspended?

Because this is no longer about health. It is politics and financial investments.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

An increasing number of European countries — including Germany, France, Italy and Spain — suspended use of AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine

Well, that happens when a vaccine is rushed through. It is gamble taking these shots before all side effects are thoroughly understood.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

the AstraZeneca vaccine has 54,571 adverse events reported in Europe so far, including at least 198 deaths (63 cardiac)

The Pfizer mRNA vaccine has 102,100, including at least 957 deaths (276 cardiac)

198 + 957

Even if you believe the vaccines caused those deaths covid is still a little more dangerous at more than 2.6 million deaths attributed to it.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

There is no background information on the health of the people that suffered the blood clots so you cant jump to conclusions that the vaccine was the cause in the 37 cases out of 17 MILLION vaccinations.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Even if you believe the vaccines caused those deaths covid is still a little more dangerous at more than 2.6 million deaths attributed to it.

If you actually believe 2.6 million people died from Covid, you're not interested in the issue.

And just released today, a Pfizer shareholder meeting wherein executives explain to investors that people may need a THIRD dose of covid vaccine in addition to regular yearly boosters. The company will soon begin plans to hike prices given the "significant opportunity for our vaccine"

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20514141-pfe-usq_transcript_2021-03-11

Once again, this is not about health. Its politics and return on investments.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

Australian Health Minister develops severe case of cellulitis just two days after AstraZeneca shot

"While the definitive claim that his condition is “not considered to be related to the vaccine” was made almost immediately by Hunt’s office, medical research into cellulitis following various vaccines including Pneumococcal, Influenza, and DTaP is well-documented." But he's still pushing for the roll-out.

I his upper right leg caused by an infect cut......that's the rest of the story....

1 ( +4 / -3 )

If you actually believe 2.6 million people died from Covid, you're not interested in the issue.

By saying that the vaccines caused all the adverse events and deaths reported in vaers, what is clear is that you are not interested in the truth.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

per journalist Alex Berenson, who knows more about Covid in his fingernail;

the AstraZeneca vaccine has 54,571 adverse events reported in Europe so far, including at least 198 deaths (63 cardiac)

The Pfizer mRNA vaccine has 102,100, including at least 957 deaths (276 cardiac)

And this is with a similar number of doses given.

Stop peddling your misinformation please. You are putting lives at risk.

And the other half of the information? I specifically said "...in a higher rate than in non-vaccinated people"

If the non-vaccinated population have the same rates of presentation that still means the vaccine is not causing any extra problems. Insisting on hiding the half of the information that proves your opinion wrong is much more validly described as risking other people lives. Why quote something you are not going to respond? are you afraid of proving yourself wrong again?

so the obvious question remains, why has the Pfizer vaccine not been suspended?

Because it has not increased important problems above what would be expected if the people were not vaccinated. Refusing to address this very important fact is not a valid argument.

Well, that happens when a vaccine is rushed through. It

The vaccine safety and efficacy trials were not rushed, and the problems have been shown to be presented at the same rates as non-vaccinated population, this means the vaccines are as safe as not vaccinating, except for COVID infection, where obviously they are the much safer option.

If you actually believe 2.6 million people died from Covid, you're not interested in the issue.

The experts do say the deaths are at least 2.6 million, very likely much more, you on the other side say the opposite, are you trying to say your "authority" is enough to contradict them? because that is false.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Pharma is claiming that vaccines are 90%-95% "effective". Effective for what exactly? Reduction of cough and headache. 

That is false, it is only your misrepresentation, the efficacy is in preventing at least symptomatic disease, but also can be projected to the more dangerous manifestations of the disease, again, you have not proved that people die as easily while being asymptomatic than if requiring care at the ICU, unless you do that you have to accept the vaccines reduces the chances of dangerous complications and deaths.

The research data do indicate very strongly that it does prevents importantly also the transmission of the disease, I know that destroys your point, but remaining ignorant about the real situation is not a real argument, you need to keep up with the news.

Your personal preferences about treatments that have not proved efficacy are irrelevant, science proves that the vaccines are safer than getting any kind of treatment after infection, so you can still choose the more risky option and it would not make it less risky.

Your conspiracy theory about drugs being suppressed is also easily proved wrong, because there are dirt cheap drugs that are being used in the treatment of COVID, that very importantly improve the survival of the patients without making any profit for any company, and these drugs are not being suppressed, that would be impossible if the conspiracy that you like were true. Sorry but this means it makes no sense.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

The hysterical crowd are absolutely off the charts today.

It’s like a fire in a pet shop

I haven’t seen anything like this since they lost the plot after the last US election.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

I honestly believe this entire pandemic can end with Ivermectin (in medical use since 1981). If they made it readily available so many lives of people who are truly at risk (comorbidities) would be saved. Pharma will try to bury any news or promotion of this drug. It's so unfortunate because this ENTIRE pandemic can end with Ivermectin.

I sincerely hope your faith in this drug proves to be true. This is still in trial right? If in case it has been proven effective, i dont think big pharma or any entity or institution would be able to bury it.

But regarding covid vaccines, my honest opinion also is that you are absolutely mistaken.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@Jimizo. I am afraid I have nothing to add today but to second you. Quite hilarious today.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

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