Mariupol's dead put at 5,000 as Ukraine braces for battle in east

as Ukraine collected evidence of Russian atrocities 

Among those that might still be denying Russia committed atrocities are many in te extreme right who claimed Russia was not going to invade Ukraine, that it was just 'the media' pushing NATO warmongering messages. Those same people continue to deny it was Putin and the Kremlin who have shown to be the actual warmongerers. Which should be evidence to reasonable people, at least, of how effective Putin and extreme right media have been at influencing fellow extreme rightists around the globe. What the US military have done in their wars has been terrible, but the US has owned up to its atrocities; William Calley at My Lai in Vietnam an example, that does not forgive the slaughter, but at least Calley was held accountable, what are the odds Russia will admit to the atrocities it has committed in Ukraine, or will Lavrov and Putin continue to blame NATO and the Brits, plus the 900 or however many in the Azov Batallion. Putin's Russia will be likened to Hitler's Germany and invading Barbarian hordes of old. And given Putin probably wants even more territory he will most likely continue his reign of terror, while blaming others for what they have done.

Russian got their eyes on the Kharviv and Donestky,before the 9th of May

Those same people continue to deny it was Putin and the Kremlin who have shown to be the actual warmongerers.

You’re funny. Have you decided to conveniently forget the last 3 decades of NATO wars?

You’re funny. Have you decided to conveniently forget the last 3 decades of NATO wars?

Ukraine isn't even in NATO. What does that have to do with Russia invading Ukraine? It certainly doesn't justify it.

Ukraine isn't even in NATO. What does that have to do with Russia invading Ukraine? It certainly doesn't justify it.

Please follow the conversation or start your own. Your question and resulting opinion is illogical.

You’re funny. Have you decided to conveniently forget the last 3 decades of NATO wars?

Deflect much. This article is about what is going on today in Ukraine where Russia has invaded a sovereign nation and is reported, based on what appears to be substantial evidence to be brutalizing innocent civilians. I have been opposed to all US military involvement and the huge sums spent on defense. I will not be a useful idiot spreading big lies, regardless whether those big lies are told by the US, Russian, or Chinese government or NATO or by their opposition.

Please follow the conversation or start your own. Your question and resulting opinion is illogical.

Yeah... I read it and it still doesn't make any sense.

Maybe if Russia stopped invading it's neighbors, then it's neighbors wouldn't want to join NATO. Funny how that works.

5,000 seems too low. The Russians have murdered far more than that. Genocide and terror is Russia’s key strategy now, or to drive the Ukrainians out of their own country.

”They’ll make a desert and call it peace.”

You’re funny. Have you decided to conveniently forget the last 3 decades of NATO wars?

Butwhatabout?

Or are you admitting to the crimes of Russia, but just saying that others have committed crimes too? Let's accept that for the sake of argument. Try using that as your defence in a criminal court and see how far it's gets you.

Elsewhere in Ukraine, the aid group Doctors without Borders said its staff witnessed an attack Monday on a cancer hospital in the southern city of Mykolaiv. The group said it was the third known strike in recent days on a hospital in the port city,

Says it all, really, about fascist Russia and the cowardly Russians from that crumbling nation. Repeatedly bombing a cancer hospital - and verified by a reputable aid agency - Doctors without Borders.

These war crimes by fascist Russia WILL be dealt with ultimately in a war crimes tribunal.

Shame on the coward Russian fascists. Never to be forgiven or welcomed back to the world stage.

Among those that might still be denying Russia committed atrocities are many in te extreme right who claimed Russia was not going to invade Ukraine

This is almost completely agreeable, but the aggressor here, the one commanding war crimes, is Putin. Trying to associate Putin with the “right” is ridiculous, as much as blaming the extreme left’s weakness for his actions is.

Yes, I know there are elections coming up in the US later this year.

But the bad guy here is Putin. And those beneath him instructing the atrocities.

Maybe if Russia stopped invading it's neighbors, then it's neighbors wouldn't want to join NATO. Funny how that works.

yeah super funny, except this.

Ukraine applied to integrate with a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.

rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/

hahaha yeah ok, sure.

yeah super funny, except this.

So what? You can see now, why they'd want to join NATO can't you? It's certainly not to be belligerent or invaded Russia.

hahaha yeah ok, sure.

Yeah, and? Here's the actual vote record. Again, who voted against NATO? https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022115

War is a chaotic brutal thing. It is not fought in a civilized manner. It is not a TV movie or a video game. War is harmful to every living thing and must be avoided.

The Retreat of the Russians from Kiev has allowed Ukrainian salvage teams to recover hundreds of damaged Tanks and APCs to be either repaired or to be used as parts.

Also they are recovering TONS of abandoned ammo and guns and other materials to be used in the fight for the east of the country which ironically makes CZAR Putin the leading supplier of arms to the Ukrainian armed forces!

Mariupol mayor calls Russian siege 'the new Auschwitz,' says more than 5,000 civilians have been killed

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/mariupol-mayor-calls-russian-siege-the-new-auschwitz-says-more-than-5-000-civilians-have-been-killed-live-ukraine-updates/ar-AAVUDTY

You’re funny. Have you decided to conveniently forget the last 3 decades of NATO wars?

Nothing funny about any of this.

Certainly nothing funny about someone who can only avoid discussing the horror of what is happening today by pointing at something from 30 years ago.

yeah super funny

Again, nothing funny about any of this.

It shows some Republicans in Congress do not support NATO, in certain situations.

lol It certainly does not show that. That is your editorialization of a simple vote.

Mostly the ones where our taxpayer money or weapons are given to others for free.

Ahhh yes, because of course, giving away things for free bad unless, of course, it goes to large corporations or political entities we like. Right?

Ukraine will be left in rubble,if they do not take the fight inside, Russia mainly too Belgorod,which striking range to Artillery fire almost 20 miles from the eastern Ukraine borders,their Economy will collapse if the do not attack inside the belly if the beast,if the US would of invaded Tokyo,after Pearl Harbor,the Japanese would of surrendered early with months

John Bolton said Trump would have pulled us out of NATO in his second term.

Just go to show how effective sanctions are against Putin (NOT).

Again a totally one sided biased and opinionated "news" story. There may well be war crimes of civilians being illegally killed. (name one conflict without) The Ukrainian government are also fighting a propaganda war (aided by a very compliant western media) The Russians are of course also issuing their own version of events. As usual the truth lies somewhere in between. Mariupol has a sizable pro Russian population who would be viewed as traitors by the Azov battalion. There are reports of civilian killings on the Ukraine side too. Many on here were cheering the brave civilians taking up arms a month ago. A civilian with a gun is a target. A civilian shooting from a 6th floor window also make his or her family and neighbors a target. Not every bomb, bullet and missile lands where it is intended. The US calls this "collateral damage" but its "cold bloodied murder" if its a Russian bomb?

What is left of the Ukrainian army is about to get annihilated in the east. Zelenskyy is desperate for Nato involvement so is going all out to gain western public support.... Sadly for him, Nato isn't coming to the rescue but seems to be willing to fight to the last Ukrainian.

A video posted online on Monday and verified by The Times appears to show Ukrainian soldiers killing captured Russian troops outside a village west of Kyiv on or around March 30, as the Russians were withdrawing.

so yeah, this is why you dont support a side that you know nothing about.

We are morally responsible for the crimes of those we arm and support.

So what now?

We are morally responsible for the crimes of those we arm and support.

So what now?

Do you believe every video someone posts? Are you sure they were Ukrainians killing Russians and not the other way around? Are you sure it was even Ukraine? Don't be a chump for likely propaganda.

Sheikh.......

The vast majority of people in the Dombass region are Russian, they speak Russian and the want to be independent. Likewise the people of Crimea. How about their wishes?

Desert Tortoise: The Azov Battalion is a very small part of the defense of Mariupol, not even 10% of the defenders.

Yet they somehow are everywhere controlling everything, according to the pro-Putins here.

Don't be a chump for likely propaganda.*

20 mins to come up with “it might be fake”?

“Verified by the Times”. NY Times.

that’s why you don’t blindly support and follow people and things you know nothing about

Blacklabel: "That’s why you don’t blindly support and follow people and things you know nothing about"

Unless it's Putin, whom you blindly support either directly or through FOX News' support of him.

Putin do not give a damn ,about dead Russian,why in the hell,would he care about dead Ukrainian,Putin is text book sociopath,that bomb Russian,inside Russia,to blame it own outside forces,as long as he gained power

 Likewise the people of Crimea. How about their wishes?

The native population of Crimea wants no part of Russia. The native population of Crimea are the Tartars. Their presence dates back many centuries when Crimea was part of the Ottoman Empire. Crimea has traditionally been a Muslim regions with a ethnically and linguistically related to the Turks. The Soviets forcibly deported the Tartars and resettled the region with Russians. After the fall of the USSR the Tartars returned to what was by then Ukraine. Ukraine welcomed them and Turkish funding built homes and helped resettle the area with Tartars however they remain a minority in their own homeland. The takeover of Crimea was engineered by the Russians at the point of a gun very much against the wishes of the Tartars. Now the Tartars live in fear again as they are persecuted and some are disappeared by the Russians.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/12/russia-ukraine-crimean-tatars-dissent-repression

https://uaccmn.org/crimean-tatar-genocide/

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/05/18/ukraine-denounces-russian-suppression-of-crimean-tatars-a73936

Yes I would want to deflect back to that too because I would also feel uncomfortable supporting what you support now.,

Not deflection. After all, this article is about the 5,000 civilians killed by Russia in Mariupol. It's tragic, and all the more reason for Western support.

I don't mind helping a side that is trying to defend itself from an invasion.

you supported helping Iraq and Afghanistan against the US invasion? Thought you are Team NATO?

you supported helping Iraq and Afghanistan against the US invasion?

Admittedly, as I dumb teenager, I originally supported the war in Iraq, but now I completely disagree.

Thought you are Team NATO?

No. I'm team freedom. Occasionally NATO some really bad stuff, but when NATO is offering help and assistance to a country that is being invaded by it's largest authoritarian neighbor, I fully support NATO. Unlike Iraq, they're clearly in the right here.

To read a story over your morning breakfast of hospitals being bombed, patients burning to death, hundreds of children killed, the slaughter of civilians as an army retreats, old women sleeping on sacks of potatoes now beyond sad and in a state of hysteria, then to hear the back and forth ‘war is messy’ and ‘what about what NATO has been doing’ is truly disturbing and sad. Anyone trying to justify Russias aggression seriously needs to reexamine their life. Liberation from reality.

Wonder if Putin will still do his swagger if he is ever seen in public again, because if a man’s life can be judged by the sum total of his actions, and the consequences of those actions, Putins gunna burn in hell. Unfortunately he has created one on Earth before his time came. Whatever his legacy or lofty convictions were before this tragic mistake, now he will simply be ranked on the scale of evil, along side the other murderous megalomaniacs we have seen in the past.

Before Russia invaded Chenchnya for the second time in 1999, Putin said "we'll wipe them out in the sh#thouse.” 25 - 50k civilians died in that war that lasted a decade.

I imagine he said something similar before the Ukraine invasion like "We'll make Chechnya look like Disneyland."

I have been opposed to all US military involvement and the huge sums spent on defense. I will not be a useful idiot spreading big lies, regardless whether those big lies are told by the US, Russian, or Chinese government or NATO or by their opposition.

I know PT, that’s why I like you.

Among those that might still be denying Russia committed atrocities are many in te extreme right who claimed Russia was not going to invade Ukraine, that it was just 'the media' pushing NATO warmongering messages. Those same people continue to deny it was Putin and the Kremlin who have shown to be the actual warmongerers.

But this has nothing to do with the article.

Furthermore, I do believe that the US, UK, NATO is just as responsible for Russias invasion as Ukraine is already a de facto NATO member.

Furthermore, I do believe that the US, UK, NATO is just as responsible for Russias invasion as Ukraine is already a de facto NATO member.

I'm sorry, what? Russia is responsible for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Ukraine only wanted to join NATO because of Russia's aggression.

Desert T....

The takeover of Crimea was engineered by the Russians at the point of a gun very much against the wishes of the Tartars. Now the Tartars live in fear again as they are persecuted and some are disappeared by the Russians.

The 2019 survey in Crimea showed that 82% of the population support accession to Russia including 58% of the Tartars. That's more than the 2014 vote.

The Ukraine ultra nationalists (Azov etc) who hate Russians also hate Tartars too!

The mayor of the besieged port city of Mariupol put the number of civilians killed there at more than 5,000 Wednesday, as Ukraine collected evidence of Russian atrocities on the ruined outskirts of Kyiv and braced for what could become a climactic battle for control of the country's industrial east.

And Ukraine's neighbors are doing what?

SuperLibToday  09:09 am JST

John Bolton said Trump would have pulled us out of NATO in his second term.

What might have happened if the US did withdraw from NATO? Maybe there would be no invasion of Ukraine like this.

But, a continued expansion of NATO, continued US participation, and the goading of the current administration, and we see Russia's response.

Unless it's Putin, whom you blindly support either directly or through FOX News' support of him.

No one on FNC supports the guy, but there are real legitimate questions that need to be answered and this admin doesn't seem to want to answer many of them. And unlike the msm that will give softball questions to just not ask him, FNC asks those critical questions that millions globally want to know, we have the absolute right to know.

painkiller

But, a continued expansion of NATO, continued US participation, and the goading of the current administration, and we see Russia's response.

Nope. Expansion of NATO was encouraged by Putin imperialist moves in Chechnya, and Georgia and his puppet governments in Ukraine, (before Viktor Yushchenko fled a popular uprising) and Belarus. Countries wanted security and they wanted to be more European leaning.

Now, while Putin hated these developments, he was in no way threatened by them.

The expansion of NATO as an excuse for Putin's imperialist war in Ukraine, is what is known as a 'pretext'. The other main pretext is denazification of Ukraine, which we all know is complete BS.

painkiller

Nope. Expansion of NATO was encouraged by Putin imperialist moves in Chechnya, and Georgia and his puppet governments in Ukraine, (before Viktor Yushchenko fled a popular uprising) and Belarus.

Oh, so then Trump pulling the US out of NATO would not have made a difference concerning Russia's current invasion of Ukraine.

Who knows. But if Trump had pulled out of NATO, the response to Putin's imperialistic invasion of Ukraine would be a whole lot scarier, because the NATO nations would be much less united on a strong response to Russia, and the US may not have even levied tough sanctions on Russia under Trump.

That would likely mean a much less armed Ukraine to hold back Russia and worries of Putin going further into former Eastern bloc countries.