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© Copyright 2022 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.Missile kills at least 52 at crowded Ukrainian train station
By ADAM SCHRECK and CARA ANNA KYIV, Ukraine©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
76 Comments
Peter14
No, they are all Russian conscripts and contract soldiers. All Russian citizens.
No, these troops are Russian, starting out in Belarus and Russian territory on "exercises" for months before invading Ukraine on three or more fronts. Any soldiers from Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea are still fighting in those areas in the south and east alongside massive Russian troop deployments.
They were ordered to put those symbols on their vehicles and you do not get court-martialed for following orders. They did it to identify Russian vehicles from Ukraine vehicles that are in many cases identical make and model.
Asakaze
@2020hindsights
What??? You must be joking, right?
Ultranationalist Ukrainians do not consider the population of the Eastern part of Ukraine loyal enough, not Ukrainian enough. That's why the regime has been killing the Donbass population for eight years since 2014.
@Cricky
"Tochka-U" missiles are not used by the Russian Army now, they use "Iskander". Only the poorly trained, poorly equipped Ukrainian regime forces that still mainly use Soviet-era equipment are still use these "Tochka-U". The unit that fired the missile is already identified. It is 19th Missile Brigade of the Ukrainian Army, CO colonel Yaroshevich. The same unit fired another "Tochka-U" missile at the city of Donbass on March 14, again killing dozens. Monsters.
The Azov regiment (not a battalion as some posters claim) is a tip of the iceberg. Initially formed as a volunteer battalion of diehard nazis, now this regiment is the most motivated unit of the Ukrainian National Guard, something like Hitler's Waffen-SS units. The founder of the battalion, a nazi crackpot called Biletsky, later founded a political movement called National Corps, its leaders are mostly ex-Azov cadres. Now the National Corps covers the whole country, its people are in all army units, police, civil service. The whole fabric of the Ukrainian state is thoroughly nazified. And yes, Azov sub-units are deployed in several areas of Ukraine.
@stormcrow
How would you best describe the regime that has been killing people with artilllery and air strikes for eight years since 2014? How best describe the people who support this regime now? Are these words suitable?
Peter14
No, the victims who were running away from Russia and their troops, towards western Ukraine and safety are not blaming the Ukraine military. You make this up or get it from Russian propaganda.
The victims blame Russia. They all blame Russia for invading Ukraine, for all the killings and the destruction Russia has unleashed on their peaceful lives.
Sickening Russian accusations to cover their murders is beyond the pale. Such obvious lies should be deleted by mods.
ClippetyClop
Much more. Western nations won’t be inserting their militaries into the bloodbath anytime soon, it would be political suicide.
Mr Kipling
The rocket will have serial numbers, date if manufacture etc.. easy to find out where it went, which army it belonged to ...
Will the UK again be blocking Russia's call for an investigation?
The Avenger
How Horrid does evil need to be before we stop being spectators ?
Kabukilover
NATO could have stepped in any time and has not only for the dangers of possible nuclear war but also (more likely) of being caught in a years-long quagmire in Russia. After the Russian revolution of 1917 The U.S. , Japan and a host of other mostly European nations invaded the Soviet Union. This ended in failure after some five years. Moral: You do not want to fight the Russians on their own turf. Napoleon learned that years ago and the fact still holds.
Russia failed in Afghanistan and it will fail in Ukraine. Russian great defense but not offense. I won't be surprised if Putin "disappears" soon for the mess he has made.
Meanwhile, condolences to the latest victims of Putin.
Yrral
Zichi,why was upset about American leaving Afghanistan US UK Ukraine War Spies BBC
ClippetyClop
Nah. That's not happening. Not enough reason to do it, not enough pressure to do it, not enough benefit in doing it.
Hello Kitty 321
If NATO gets involved that means the end of everything.
smithinjapan
Enough is enough. Time for NATO to give Ukraine what it needs, and time to declare a no fly zone, making it clear that if Russia disobeys, they will be shot down. Any more attacks like these should be met in kind, but with all Russian troop checkpoints. We are already in this. Time to actually get in.
tooheysnew
what a load of rubbish.
do you really believe the stuff you write ?
The only Soldiers being court martialed, are the ones that refuse to fight because they don’t believe in it
tooheysnew
Another Russian general named & shamed -
‘Western officials believe Captain General Aleksandr Dvornikov, a Russian commander who oversaw devastation in Syria, is likely to have ordered yesterday’s fatal air strike on the station in Kramatorsk’
most of these despicable generals have learnt their art of atrocities in other war zones such as Syria & Georgia
theFu
Diplomats are the problem at this point. Talking won't solve this. Bombs, air-superiority, and the fear of NATA headed to Moscow after clearing all of Ukraine, including the east, will.
fallaffel
The article clearly states that Russia does use these missiles. It is not the first lie told by the Russian government.
Rodney
A Ukrainian missile, not used by Russia, fired from Ukrainian held position, verified by munition remains and satellite imagery as Ukrainian, must of been a Russian human rights abuse. Yawn.
Hervé L'Eisa
The missile was fired from an area controlled by the Ukrainian forces. It was probably intended to strike a Russian controlled area but malfunctioned post launch.
rainyday
You are confusing the troops who were occupying Donestk, Lughansk and Crimea prior to Feb. 24 which were indeed mostly from those regions, with the invasion force that entered Ukraine on Feb. 24, which is almost entirely composed from units drawn from other parts of Russia.
That stuff about them not being allowed to paint letters on their vehicles is clearly nonsense.
rainyday
The Ukrainians aren’t inflicting these losses on the Russians by just sitting around in fox holes. They need to get into positions from which they can attack Russian armor, which requires them to go out on patrol. Look at any of the numerous videos of Russian vehicles getting blown up that are online, the Ukrainians are not sitting in a foxhole when they do that.
bass4funk
But not Putin’s will and determination and this is why he and his generals are adapting relocating to other strategic key points to his national interests.
Desert Tortoise
No. The Ukrainians just need to push Russian forces out of Ukrainian territory. What ought to rattle Vladimir Putin and keep him wide awake at night is what happens when those Russian soldiers return home from Ukraine.
Yrral
I hope Ukraine prevail against Russian,but they should put the fear in any Russian Federation soldiers who dare tread on Ukraine,if you are in tank,it will become lots of Russian tomb
stormcrow
"For the Children!" . . . words written in Russian on a downed Russian missile near a civilian target
Monsters!
Desert Tortoise
The US has not fought a war where its cities were being systematically destroyed since the War of 1812. Even during the Civil War northern cities were unaffected by the horrible combat occurring in the South where cities were very much being destroyed. Combat never touched US soil during WWI and only peripherally during WWII. War production was never affected. Ukraine does not have that luxury nor does it have the vast natural resources within its borders the US has to support a major war.
Yrral
Tortoise,taking the battle on the street of Moscow,you think will rattle Putin,Houthis force the Saudis into a stalemate,by the way Pakistan is reaping,what it showed,by now having to fight the their alliance with the Taliban Google Taliban Pakistan War
Desert Tortoise
The infrastructure needed to develop mission plans for those cruise missiles, to develop the high fidelity 3D terrain maps of the world so the missiles can recognize where they are, fly down valleys and cross mountain passes or fly down streets and make turns at the right intersection to hit the right building, sometimes even the right window, to develop the ultra precise 3D representations of the targets so the missiles seekers know what to hit is not a trivial enterprise. That is why you see so few countries using US style cruise missiles. Only UK uses Tomahawk. Poland briefly considered them but backed away. Only Finland and Australia use JASSM / JASSM-ER. I don't even think the Russians can do with their missiles what the US can do because the technologies involved are so great and the so costly. I think the NATO member cruise missiles like Storm Shadow rely on the US infrastructure for targeting.
stormcrow
“If there are civilians, slay them all!”
Russian Army radio intercept in Ukraine
Yrral
DT,the US soldiers do not beg for arms,they usually can get everything they need ,even air support,we pay our taxes,we expect them stop bombs from falling on our city
stormcrow
Which word best describes Russia today?
Vulgar
Obscene
Cruel
Evil
All of the above.
Yrral
DT,the US would of wipe all of that Russian convoy from the earth with 100 cruise missile ,they would of been hit every which way but loose
Sven Asai
If you see an ‘angel’ free of guilt on any of the both war party sides, then teach us. That would be news. But so it’s better to not believe any of them. They are all crazy and out of mind there. They can’t develop their countries and economies, but are only masters in shooting, killings and destruction. Third world now in direct neighborhood of the first, so to say.
Desert Tortoise
The Russians are not very good in a lot of ways. Last year the Russian Army introduced a brand new encrypted phone system called Era. Era is a super expensive cryptophone system that Russia’s defense ministry introduced in 2021 with great fanfare. It was guaranteed to work in all conditions. The problem is that it needs a working 3G or 4G cellular system to work. The Russians destroyed many cell phone towers in combat leaving the Russian army equipped with secure phones that can't work in areas where the Russian army operates! They tried replacing some destroyed cell phone towers with Stingrays. Stingrays are eavesdropping devices that mimic cell towers, meaning that mobiles connect to them, but they also allow data to be intercepted, which western SIGINT is happily doing. Frustrated Russian troops unable to use their Era phones instead use unencrypted walkie talkies that anybody on the right frequency can listen to.
Bob Fosse
You can read RT if you prefer.
Desert Tortoise
Neither of us know how US forces would defend a city under attack from a much larger and better equipped force as Ukrainian forces have been forced to do. The Ukraine Army has fought with surprising effectiveness. Of 120 Battalion Tactical Groups (BTGs) sent into Ukraine 40 have been mauled so badly they have had to retreat back to Belrus to reorganize. 29 suffered such high personnel losses they are no longer combat capable. Consider the whole Russian Army has only 127 BTGs to work with, each with about 900-1000 soldiers. They sent 120 BTGs, most of their combat ready army into Ukraine and one third of their BTGs were handed their backsides in combat and had to retreat.
The tactics the Ukrainian Army have refined over the past eight years of combat in Donbass rely on highly independent small units using hit and run tactics. They don't do the big set piece battles led by a General in the manner of the Russians. Their Lieutenants and Captains, their junior officers and sargents, their senior enlisted soldiers, are the leaders. This is much like how western armies are led btw. They don't need a General to tell them their every move the way the Russian soldiers and junior officers do. You wonder why the Russians have lost so many Generals? Their junior officers cannot lead. They can only follow orders. When confronted with something that wasn't in the pages long battle orders, they stop and call the General for direction. The General has to come to the front lines to see what is going on and figure out a way forward. Then the Ukrainians kill them!
The Ukrainian Army gives their Junior Officers (JOSs) objectives and trust them to achieve them. And their JOs through training with NATO forces and the hard lessons of fighting in Donbass know how to lead in combat, think on the move, innovate and most important be highly mobile. Their JOs don't need to ask the General what to do. They are trained to think and fight independently. You will probably never see a massed Ukrainian Army confront a massed Russian Army. It is not how the Ukrainians fight. In a lot of ways their style of small unit leadership is much like the US Marines.
Cricky
Jeff lee do more research they are basically a scud with extra capabilities but still a V2 rocket at heart. And so well made the bulk of the body is intact. It releases multiple bombs over a wide area. Not a precise weapon.
Cricky
From wiki? But anyway it as I said might have been hit by an anti missile, missile and fallen inadvertently there. Or as you propose from wiki was deliberately targeted at that spot. Either way it’s all wrong. I don’t care if it’s a Russian fired or Ukrainian fired those were non combatants trying to get the hell out of there. The fog of war propaganda clouds everything. Finding troops willing to kill their own people not that easy.
lincolnman
The Putin worshipers and Kremlin apologists have more imagination than Rod Serling and Chris Carter put together....
Their pathetic, beyond bizarre attempts to excuse the barbarism of Putin and his undisciplined, Nazi-like storm troopers reach into "the earth is flat" level of fantasy...
They're entertaining merely for their comical value....
They're frightening given the level of evil they represent...
bass4funk
Absolutely
Ah_so
The BBC said that it might have been shot off target by anti missile weapons. Who knows, but Russia has demonstrated that it will attack targets indiscriminately.
Either way, the world knows that Russia is a terrorist state. Time for that squinty eyed troll in the Kremlin to be locked in a room with a bottle of vodka and a revolver with a single round.
Yrral
Ukraine might win the war,but they will be bombed into the stone ages,many will die from cancer ,from the destroyed building by being exposed to asbestos from destroyed building,the US soldiers do not wait for their enemy in foxholes like Ukrainian,they actively seek out their enemy too kill ,by patrolling
AgentX
Amazing the missile didn't explode, and erm.. the choice of words is very.. erm... emotional?
JeffLee
@Cricky
From Wiki: "The missile itself can be used for precise strikes on enemy tactical targets, such as control posts, bridges, storage facilities, troop concentrations and airfields."
Mat
Horrifying. If Russia are allowed to take Ukraine, who will be next? They won't stop there.
Ah_so
Well, they are incredibly incompetent, so probably not.
Ah_so
A bold claim, Mr Kipling. I don't think NATO will get involved, even against a second rate military power like Russia.
Ah_so
In a QAnon world, everything is a conspiracy. Everyone who looks apparently good is evil, and everyone obviously evil is wonderful.
Just get used to it.
Paul
The town has been under Russian control for weeks!
forzaducati
Apparently the Russians bragged about having targeted "a crowd of Ukrainian militants" at the Kramatorsk railway station. It's hard to verify at this point, but one by one Russian denials of targeting civilians are being disproved. Various intelligence agencies, notably the German one, have intercepted numerous calls by the Russians to specifically target civilians and residential areas.
The Avenger
Russia needs to be completely sealed off from civilization for a few generations.
These cowardly Russian attacks on unarmed Ukrainians are just going continue with no end in sight. Hit and run Ukrainians Commandos raids on key Russian in-country infrastructures and military sites are warranted. Eye-for-Eye, Tooth-for-Tooth.
bass4funk
Well, the same would happen in the transition to so-called cleaner energy, our adversaries would use it to enriching themselves as well and until that time comes you have to use fossil fuels to get there and then the corruption would move there. So either way, the corruption continues, the difference is that the largest energy source on the planet will be used for years to come and until we can find a better and more reliable alternative fuel source this is what we have to deal with.
Mickelicious
I'd take that with a ton of salt.
Paul
Does the fact the town has been under Russian control for weeks matter at all?
stormcrow
One horrible atrocity piled on top of another.
Murder, rape and cruelty are the calling cards of this criminal Russian Army.
And 80% of the Russian population support this war?!
What on earth is wrong with these people?!
Fighto!
Absolutely sickening - but nothing fascist Russia does now surprises anyone.
Cricky
For some people that Azov 900 men seem to be everywhere. If true they are truly a fantastic multidimensional group that it’s just not worth fighting. They pop up 600km away then back within 10 minutes. Truly a fantastic skill set.
PTownsend
As long as Russia remains such an important gas station, and as long the globe's fossils running the fossil economy require more oil and gas, and as long as Putin and the Kremlin want more territory to re-establish the USSR, and as long as the global weapons sellers, which include Putin, inc.'s defense industries, and the US, UK, France, China and India see war as profitable , expect Russian and other versions of military madness to continue.
And perhaps expect more wars elsewhere. As long as oil and gas remain such important resources, expect wars to be fought over them and their shipment. And expect pollution problems to increase and climate change related disasters to worsen.
Cricky
These missiles have a accuracy of half a Kilometre at best, notoriously inaccurate. I doubt it was intended to hit any particular target it’s just the poorly trained, poorly equipped Russian forces literally lobbing explosive devices into large civilian areas. It’s the best they can do. Can’t win the area by skill flatten the area then claim victory over a destroyed city. Gengis Khan used the same tactics.
2020hindsights
William Bjornson
Umm, no. We may expect that Russia would zero credibility. US reports have full credibility. Ukrainian reports less so.
How do you figure that. Losing 50 people with many more injured seems like a pretty high price to me. And why-o-why would Ukraine kill its own citizens?
I mean, come on.
Japanoob
@William Bjornson
What reason would Ukraine have to commit such a false flag operation considering all the other evidence of Russian atrocities occurring across Ukraine?
i.e. Are all the mass graves being dug up and evidence of Ukrainian non-combatants being executed with their hands and/or feet bound not sufficient enough?
With respect, your argument is fundamentally flawed.
Cricky
It was a cluster munitions missile and had “for the children” written on it in Russian but that’s no evidence in itself. It might have been shot down by an anti missile Ukrainian missile and landed where it did? The fog of war makes things difficult to unravel. But if there were no Russian troops attacking Ukrainians then it would not have happened in the first place. Who fired what is secondary it’s who attacked who that’s the focus.
SeiboJapan
In answer to 'why just ONE missile', why not? But that is not what was reported immediately after the attack. But it was one that did the damage. The BBC mention several missiles and there are eyewitness reports of other missiles being intercepted. No need to accuse people of mindless judgements- we should help everyone know the truth, which might be elusive until further evidence is made public, but innocents died and families deserve to know who did this.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61036740
I don't claim to know who ordered the attack but just to mention that plenty of media sources have reported on both Russia and Ukraine having the Tochka-U type missiles. Here's a recent article but there are plenty more from before today's attack; https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/russian-war-report-russia-makes-false-claims-while-blaming-ukraine-for-kramatorsk-railway-station-attack/
William Bjornson
Other opinions:
"A Tochka U ballistic missile, which reportedly killed dozens of civilians in the Ukrainian city of Kramatorsk on Friday, came from a town under the control of Ukrainian forces, the Russian Defense Ministry has claimed.
The missile was fired from Dobropole, around 45km southwest of the city, Moscow stated."
"Initial claims from Ukrainian officials said an Iskander missile was used, but images of a Tochka U tail part taken at the scene later flooded social media."
"The ministry claimed that Kiev is the only party in the Ukraine conflict that uses outdated Soviet-made Tochka U missiles."
And, if it were Russia deliberately trying to kill civilians, why just ONE missile? And if the Russians are 'lying', why would Ukrainian voices be any more believable, not to mention the many 'friendly fire' fatalities reported by both sides. While we may expect that Russia would have the same level of credibility as the U.S. DoD, that is, none, why would we automatically assume that the culturally similar Ukraines would have any higher regard for the truth and, here, the Russians have much more to lose in such an attack and the Ukraines only to gain.
"The Russian Defense Ministry denied any responsibility for the attack. It said that Ukrainian troops must have targeted the station to disrupt the evacuation and keep civilians in the city so that they could be used as human shields during an upcoming fight for it."
Let's, at least, try to balance the slanted 'news' we consider in our sometimes mindless judgements...