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Patients and staff leave Gaza's biggest hospital; dozens killed at crowded refugee camp

49 Comments
By NAJIB JOBAIN, BASSEM MROUE and SAMY MAGDY

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49 Comments

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This is without doubt a truly horrible situation for those in Gaza, and in particular for those in that Hospital as reported here.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Surprise, Surprise. now that Northern Gaza has been reduced to a pile of rubble and corpses, all of a sudden Southern Gaza is an acceptable target. Definitely no genocide to see here folks.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

More than 11,500 Palestinians have been killed in the war,

Current occupiers tactics, told innocent civilians which includes children, woman and old people to move to particular "safe" place then attack those innocent civilians in that place, without mercy.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/17/1213579692/israel-gaza-evacuation-south-attacks

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Forcing patients to leave the hospital is a war crime.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Forcing patients to leave the hospital is a war crime.

No, not when the hospital is being used by terrorists to launch attacks against Israel.

The war crime is Hamas using the hospital as a base to launch those attacks, and to use human shields. Besides, the evacuation was voluntary.

Israel’s military has been searching the hospital for a Hamas command center that it alleges is located under the building — a claim Hamas and the hospital staff deny.

Anyone naive enough to believe Hamas is supporting terrorist propaganda.

Even a UN aid official described that hospital as being used as a command base by Hamas for more than 10 years. Israel has the right to do what it wants to eradicate terrorists, and nothing can stop them, as they patiently and humanely inform civilians of where the next strikes will be in order to minimize collateral damage.

These safe and secure measures would not be necessary, of course, if Hamas had not killed and kidnapped more than 1400 people in Israel.

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

Every day , in every way, Israel just gets worse and worse.

Recent video of PM Netanyahu speaking in front of a new Israeli /US donated , war plane boasting how the war in Gaza will show any nation how Israel responds to attacks.

Killing women and children aspect not mentioned.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Yip above, do you still believe that rubbish claim of a Hamas underground command centre ??

Why cant the Israelis find it ?

Because it doesnt exist and shock ,horror, the IDF is lying.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

No, not when the hospital is being used by terrorists to launch attacks against Israel.

Unfortunately there is no special clause exempting Israel from International humanitarian law. If this is something I have missed, then please share it, so I can stop spreading misinformation. I await your reply.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

It’s strange that the IDF attacking army would seek to target all hospitals in Gaza?

What would be the effect of continually bombing hospitals and then bombing civilians ?

Would it not lead to the death of those injured as they cannot receive necessary medical care?

Israel’s actions are literally wiping out the population of Gaza.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Hamas should have released those hundreds of Israeli civilians it kidnapped on Oct. 7th by now.

What on earth is taking them so long?!

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Surprise, Surprise. now that Northern Gaza has been reduced to a pile of rubble and corpses, all of a sudden Southern Gaza is an acceptable target. Definitely no genocide to see here folks.

No genocide, but as brutally ugly as it is, why would Hamas imbed itself amongst its civilian population?

Hamas launches one of the worst attacks ever on the Jewish nation, brutally raped, kidnapped, burned alive, tortured, so let’s start there first. Had Hamas not done what it did on 10/7 this all wouldn’t be happening, but Hamas knew the results and now happy with this carnage because they know it helps their political cause, in theory actually.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Chabbawanga - when the Russians hit a Ukrainian hospital, is that a war crime?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

No Hamas was found at the hospital.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Yip above, do you still believe that rubbish claim of a Hamas underground command centre ??

Why cant the Israelis find it ?

Because it doesnt exist and shock ,horror, the IDF is lying.

The IDF found it, which is why they are there.

Or to look at another way, out of all the places in Gaza Israel could choose to target, they decided on a hospital in which they were not sure if Hamas was using, knowing the world would be scrutinizing every action they engaged in, and would be criticized severely every step of the way.

Nah.

Oh, and speaking of hospitals, remember supposedly 500 people were killed by an explosion at Al-Ahli Hospital? And it turned out that was a result of a misfired rocket from Islamic Jihad terrorists? Or, do you believe the Islamic terrorists' version?

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

IDF has to show the tunnels and command center under the hospital.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

President Biden calls for a two-state solution and joining the West Bank and Gaza under one Palestinian authority.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

IDF has to show the tunnels and command center under the hospital.

The IDF has to prove that any tunnels or basement facilities were used as the headquarters for Hamas terrorist activities. That was the claim. Not a couple of kalashinikovs and some service tunnels.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Unfortunately there is no special clause exempting Israel from International humanitarian law. If this is something I have missed, then please share it, so I can stop spreading misinformation. I await your reply.

Oh, sure, and yes, this is something you missed.

It's called the Geneva Conventions. When the terrorists are using the hospital as a headquarters, or other purposes that are "harmful to the enemy" then there is no special protection afforded to the hospital. And in case of that exception, Israel has to give the civilians a chance to escape--which it did.

Also, Israel has to give warnings to the doctors and patients inside that the hospital is a target. Israel did this too.

So, looking forward to you stop spreading misinformation.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Hamas unfortunately is not a country and not a signature on the Geneva Convention. They are terrorists.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Why doesn’t Hamas just surrender and release the hostages? Israeli attacks would stop immediately if they did that

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

Why doesn’t Hamas just surrender and release the hostages? Israeli attacks would stop immediately if they did that

The hostages give Hamas leverage in their negotiations, at least as long as they are still alive, but even then, they may be able to squeeze some concessions by returning bodies, body parts, and personal effects.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Hamas is, a Terrorist organization, grown in support, in part, from retaliation to attacks upon Palestinian peoples by Israeli Settlers and the Israeli State.

Northern Ireland faced a similar situation - A Terrorist organization - the IRA, which ironically was / is Supported by the US Government , and whom now has it's Political wing - Sinn Fein, running the Southern part of the Country. Yet the Parallel stops there, the North, hasn't invaded the South (again), and somehow people are living - together without too much serious conflict.

Perhaps, some lessons can be learnt ?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

No Hamas was found at the hospital.

Not according to the IDF.

What's most annoying about your eradicate terrorists fantasy is that Israel won't be able to eradicate Hamas so called terrorists by killing everything in Gaza.

They will and have been retiring a lot of ground senior leaders, that’s exactly what you want.

Hamas is in other countries and regions

We know, and the cowards that they are know they will always have to look over their shoulders, always.

I see no justification for killing innocent civilians.

I don’t either, but in war and in a place where you have that many children congregated in such a small confined area, casualties will sadly and undoubtedly happen. This is what Hamas wants. But in the end, the most important thing in the bigger picture is to limit the reach and power of Hamas on every level, kill, hinder, incapacitate them as much as they possibly can to make them less of a threat for years to come.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Oh, sure, and yes, this is something you missed.

It's called the Geneva Conventions.

I am familiar with the Geneva convention, and well aware that all members must abide by international humanitarian law. Israel is a member... apparently.

For your reference here is a link to what international humanitarian law is.

https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/what_is_ihl.pdf

I dont see any special clauses. Please show me where I can find them. I am happy to accept your arguments if you can prove your claims.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The IDF are clowns. They showed a simple calendar on the wall of a hospital and said it was a Hamas hostage supervision schedule.

Then they showed an MRI machine and said it was really a portal to an underground tunnel system used by Hamas.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

I doubt Israeli would stop immediately

I doubt the fighting would stop

The fighting would stop sooner than Hamas holding out to the very end, that’s for sure. You mean Israel would keep going and destroy all of Gaza? If they wanted to do that why haven’t they done it?

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Then they showed an MRI machine and said it was really a portal to an underground tunnel system used by Hamas.

Actually, the accurate and true reports were that Hamas had weapons behind the MRI and also behind the beds of infants, now who in their right mind does crap like this??? These people don’t give one iota crap about life.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

I am familiar with the Geneva convention, and well aware that all members must abide by international humanitarian law. Israel is a member... apparently.

Ok--you do know the Geneva Convention is part of international humanitarian law?

For your reference here is a link to what international humanitarian law is. 

https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/what_is_ihl.pdf

There is no law named "International Humanitarian Law." But the Geneva Conventions make up a part of the laws and rules referred to as international humanitarian law.

I dont see any special clauses. Please show me where I can find them. I am happy to accept your arguments if you can prove your claims.

As mentioned above the Geneva Conventions(international humanitarian law) has the special clause you are looking for.

I can show you where to find it.

Article 19 IV. Discontinuance of protection of hospitals.

Ok, I proved my claim, and happy you accept the international humanitarian law governing this matter.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

If they wanted to do that why haven’t they done it?

Note the international reaction the current situation. Outrage. There is a point at which even Israels closest allies can no longer support them. We are getting closer and closer to that point already, but an all out eradication operation with no holding back, would leave Israel on their own immediately.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Hamas must release the hostages, the Government of Israel will be compelled to implement ceasefire, or at the very least a pause of hostilities.

Hamas future as a force for terrorism in Gaza is over.

The question is what remains of Gaza strip, any future of a Palestinian State, its people, any recognizable infostructure able to create or sustain housing school hospitals especially if or when the IDF carry out a land sea air offensive in the south, under the auspices of Hamas refusal to release the hostages.

The UN must insist on independent monitors.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Actually, the accurate and true reports were that Hamas had weapons behind the MRI and also behind the beds of infants, now who in their right mind does crap like this??? These people don’t give one iota crap about life.

A couple of machine guns shouldnt be anywhere near a hospital. 100% agree with you. Whether they were planted is also a good question though. BBC journalists have already raised questions about the weapons they saw and the weapons in the IDF propaganda video. Regardless, a few AKs is not a "Hamas base of terrorist operations in Gaza" as was claimed over and over again by the IDF. You cant keep moving the goal posts.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

One has to have caution over what one side shows as "evidence".... throw into the play - AI, then, all we can assume is that an event may have happened.

I personally, do not trust the IDF in providing their "Evidence", I also, do not trust Hamas - as they are a global Terrorist organization run by people who have non-Palestinian issues at heart - just like ISIS - who lure honest people into their own twisted agenda.

However, the Israelis have sadly been drawn into this spiral of hate descent which will simply encourage Globally, Future hate of the "Jews", particular amongst those of the Muslim Religion - this is perhaps the ultimate goal of Hamas, though one has to wonder why the Israelis could not see this, I suspect, that it is far deeper ingrained - which is why we now realizing the existence of these "pseudo concentration camps "of Gaza and the West bank that have been operated for many years .... and encouraging the support within them, of these so called.. "Terrorists".

Has Israel itself, become a Terrorist state ?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Note the international reaction the current situation. Outrage. There is a point at which even Israels closest allies can no longer support them. We are getting closer and closer to that point already, but an all out eradication operation with no holding back, would leave Israel on their own immediately

Exactly, which strengthens my argument that Israel would never completely destroy Gaza ESPECIALLY if Hamas completely surrendered

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I wonder, if we as a whole, were able to go to the Egyptian border with Gaza, and each fly a drone with a "Loaf of bread" (or a small container of bottled of Water ) over to the other side - what impact would that have ?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

What separates these acts of atrocities of genocide of the Nazi from their Germans supporters, Nothing, they are all complicit . So there is no separating the Jew supporters of the Zionist , Nothing, because they are all complicit of 75 years of voting for a apartheidt system. If being opposed to both the Nazi and the Colonial apartheid powers in the Occupied Terrorises Of Palestine is anti semite, well I am a very proud Anti Semite.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

IDF has to show the tunnels and command center under the hospital."

Give them a bit of time. Now they forced staff and patients out of the hospital they can plant weapons inside and dig a tunnel entrance or two. Color me skeptical.

Elsewhere in northern Gaza, dozens of people were killed in the urban Jabaliya refugee camp when what witnesses described as an Israeli airstrike hit a crowded U.N. shelter in the main combat zone. It caused massive destruction in the camp's Fakhoura school, said wounded survivors Ahmed Radwan and Yassin Sharif.

The scenes were horrifying. Corpses of women and children were on the ground. 

Netanyahu & IDF war crimes are continuing non stop while Joe continues to ship weapons to Israel daily enabling this ongoing massacre of children and women in refugee camps, hospitals, schools and other supposedly safe places. When will the US & the rest of the west finally say enough is enough? How many more killed and injured kids does it take?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

but an all out eradication operation with no holding back, would leave Israel on their own immediately.

Then so be it, Hamas needs to go, pure and simple.

Whether they were planted is also a good question though.

Hamas?

BBC journalists have already raised questions about the weapons they saw and the weapons in the IDF propaganda video.

With all due respect the BBC has lost a lot of credibility it once had decades ago and to question their journalistic ethics is something warranted.

Regardless, a few AKs is not a "Hamas base of terrorist operations in Gaza"

Don’t sidestep, it shouldn’t be anywhere near a child or children-period.

as was claimed over and over again by the IDF. You cant keep moving the goal posts.

Hmmm, doesn’t mean that the base is not within close proximity, otherwise, why keep a stash of weapons?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Even the pro-Israel BBC is casting doubt on the IDF's clumsy "evidence" of the Hamas Operational Command Center under the devastated hospital and, what is more troubling, are reports emerging from Jewish witnesses and investigators that the high death toll on 10/7 during the Hamas raid was caused by IDF rockets and tank shells and firefights with Hamas fighters. The "O" word has been carefully scrubbed from all Western government communiques and media reports. Has this something to do with the fact that armed resistance against an OCCUPYING force is recognized by international law?

Recent video of PM Netanyahu speaking in front of a new Israeli /US donated , war plane boasting how the war in Gaza will show any nation how Israel responds to attacks.

Killing women and children aspect not mentioned.

Were he still with us, Hans Christian Andersen would have something sharp to say about Netanyahu's silence on the mass slaughter in the Gaza Ghetto as well as about the deafening silence from the Western governments refusing to condemn war crimes that are unprecedented in their brazen ferocity plainly visible to millions of people around the world with lying eyes to see.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

John-SanToday  09:44 am JST

What separates these acts of atrocities of genocide of the Nazi from their Germans supporters, Nothing, they are all complicit .

This has to be one of the ludicrous posts I have ever seen. I'd use different words, but the moderators would probably take down my post. Germany tried to take over Europe. Israel has not tried to take over the MIddle East. They haven't even tried to take over "Palestine". They gave Gaza back to the Gazans. They even tried giveing Gaza back to Egypt, (people forget that Egypt "occupied" it for a quite a while) Egypt didn't want it. Meanwhile, the people of Gaza voted in a group who explicitly stated they want to obliterate Israel and kill Jews. Who are the complicit ones?

So there is no separating the Jew supporters of the Zionist , Nothing, because they are all complicit of 75 years of voting for a apartheidt system.

By your very logic, their is no separating regular Gazans and Hamas. Which means regualr Gazans are responsible for the Oct. 7th attacks. See how this works? Apatheid system? I'm getting tired of people throwing around words that are incorrectly applied to the situation. Who's been ruling Gaza for the last 18 years? Hamas. Irael has almost 2 million Arab living in Israel. Over 12000 Gazans had work permits to work in Israel. Nice try.

If being opposed to both the Nazi and the Colonial apartheid powers in the Occupied Terrorises Of Palestine is anti semite, well I am a very proud Anti Semite.*

I don't understand how a people who are native to the area can be called Colonialist? I don't understand how a country, who has tried many times to have peace/land deals wih "Palestine", can be considered Colonialist. I don't understand how a country, who was handed a peace of land by Britain, be considered Colonialist. They didn't invade and conquer it. Israel was the one who was attacked by Arab countries in 1948...and won the war. Also, all comparison to Nazi Germany and Israel need to stop. It shows a stunning lack of knowledge about both situations.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The eyes of the world witness these crimes against humanity while the western media largely turns a blind eye. I believe this is a turning point in world history.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Why does your dog eventually bite you when you kick it too many times?

Why doesn’t Hamas just surrender and release the hostages?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yip above, do you still believe that rubbish claim of a Hamas underground command centre ??

Probably the same as you believing everything that Hamas has to say.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Cat: Australia offical foreign affairs statement referring to the Jew Occupation is the "Colonial Apartheid power in The Occupied Terrorises of Palestine". It is official in Australia, this wording is also used officially by New Zealand, South Africa etc:. Are you telling the thread that South Africa are mis interpreting the meaning of Apartheid and Colonialism ??? Hamas is recognised by the UN as the official elected Government of Gaza and are lashing out again at the continuous 75 years of over ruling apartheid system the jew have over the population of Gaza. That how the major of the civil world are referring to the action in Gaza.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

John-SanToday  11:39 am JST

Cat: Australia offical foreign affairs statement referring to the Jew Occupation is the "Colonial Apartheid power in The Occupied Terrorises of Palestine". It is official in Australia, this wording is also used officially by New Zealand, South Africa etc:. Are you telling the thread that South Africa are mis interpreting the meaning of Apartheid and Colonialism ??? Hamas is recognised by the UN as the official elected Government of Gaza and are lashing out again at the continuous 75 years of over ruling apartheid system the jew have over the population of Gaza. That how the major of the civil world are referring to the action in Gaza.

Yes, I am.

If you look at the definition of Apartheid, it says a form of racial segregation. Last time I checked, Israel is a very multi-cultural society. Gaza has been self ruled for almost 2 decades and would not have been blockaded if they, how do you say, not have consistently lauched rockets into Israel.. Don' t you find it funny that Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, all countries that were colonized by outside forces, criticize Israel for being inhabitated by the people who were native to the area? Seems somewhat strange. Perhaps they would prefer that the area go back to 1948 borders. My mind fails to recall who colonized the area at the time...perhaps you could enlighten me? Also, you failed to address my queries about how Israel can be compared to Nazi Germany. Take your time.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

No one with a brain would accept IDF statements at face value.

And in Courts of Law, a witness who lies about one thing can be disbelieved on other things.

Now , I suppose posters could google "IDF lies "" and further their understanding.

Admittedly, in conflict and wars, everybody who has a partisan interest will lie.

Thats why we need independent verification of claims of hospital tunnels and "ready to go "packs claimed by the shameless Israeli spokespeople.

Liar liar, pants and international reputation, on fire.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Israel thinks killing everything in Gaza will end the conflict is extremely naive

This is obviously not what Israel thinks, and not their goal.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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