Pilot, 4 passengers of Titan submersible are dead, U.S. Coast Guard says

Well, at least they didn't suffocate slowly.

With the growth in deep-sea tourism, we must expect more incidents like this

oh dear!

I have a hard time mustering up sympathy, and cannot understand the current talk of honoring them as “heroes.”

These people had more money than sense. The passengers didn’t vet the CEO, who bragged about not following design or safety recommendations from people experienced in submarine construction and operation. It had a history of equipment failures.

He was told the plexiglass viewing port in the front would implode at depth. He said, in cavalier fashion, that he refused to hire people with submarine experience, “because they were usually 50 year-old white men who are not inspirational.”

All he did was put more people in danger in mounting rescue operations.

Would you have paid $250,000 to ride with him?

How did you deduce that ?

Considering the craft imploded and has been found in pieces, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet they didn't suffocate slowly!

RIP

Take solace in the fact death would have been instant. I would rather that than slowly running out of oxygen while freezing.

And the US Navy has confirmed that their classified acoustic submarine detection system detected an implosion/explosion event in the area the same time communications stopped, only 1-2 hours after it began its descent.

Rescue people were made aware of it after the surface crew waited 8 hours to report the loss of communication.

The Wall Street Journal has just reported that a “top secret U.S. Navy acoustic detection system" designed to spot enemy submarines first heard the Titan sub implosion hours after the submersible began its mission.

Per WSJ:

The Navy began listening for the Titan almost as soon as the sub lost communications, according to a U.S. defense official. Shortly after its disappearance, the U.S. system detected what it suspected was the sound of an implosion near the debris site discovered Thursday and reported its findings to the commander on site, U.S. defense officials said.

“The U.S. Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,” a senior U.S. Navy official told The Wall Street Journal in a statement. “While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission.”

The Navy asked that the specific system used not be named, citing national security concerns.

Obviously the successor to SOSUS.

"Well, at least they didn't suffocate slowly."

They may have been crushed slowly.

Yes very amusing thankyou however they haven't actually found the bodies yet.

And I doubt they will considering what that kind of pressure will do to a body.

Perhaps reading the article again might help

Yes, perhaps it would.

The U.S. Coast Guard says a missing submersible imploded near the wreckage of the Titanic, killing all five people on board.

Do you think the Coast Guard is wrong?

How did you deduce that ?

They haven't even found the bodies they presume are dead

Are you really unable to put two and two together?

Submarine implosion at pressure depth more than 300 times that at the surface = everyone killed instantly with zero chance of survival.

"Well, at least they didn't suffocate slowly."

They may have been crushed slowly.

Submarines don’t get crushed slowly. When they fail at that depth its all over in a fraction of a second.

AP have confirmed the WSJ's reporting mentioned above.

The AP reports:

The Navy went back and analyzed its acoustic data after the Titan submersible was reported missing Sunday. That anomaly was “consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,” according to the senior Navy official. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive acoustic detection system. The Navy passed on the information to the Coast Guard, which continued its search.

This is what happens when certain industries aren't strictly regulated. Entrepreneurs attempt to build serious equipment using toy parts and ignore basic safety standard even while charging their hapless customers enormous sums of money.

To put it another way: There's a reason no remains have been recovered from the titanic wreckage.

They knew this is a very dangerous sightseeing before diving. It seems they just had a bad choice. RIP

Another tragic event in the history of the Titanic.

Well, at least they didn't suffocate slowly.

How did you deduce that ?

They haven't even found the bodies they presume are dead

While I'm not quite sure there would be much left to their bodies, do you honestly think bodies would be recognizable in the extremely off chance they would be found at all considering ocean tides and a 4km depth?

Finding a needle in a haystack would be easy compared to that.

Well, at least they didn't suffocate slowly.

They probably suffered a lot, not sure how long the process was from start to finish but that kind of death struggling to breathe while the pressure around you increases, there wasn’t a toilet, they were packed like sardines and because of the size of the vessel you have to sit in a scissor position in the dark (assuming all electronics ceased to function) sliding further into the cold abyss has to be the most frightening thing for them to endure, not to mention the hysteria hitting them once they realized the impending doom was eminent, the final implosion would have disintegrated almost everything.

Not a whole lot when it comes to the abundance of sea life, but they do have isopods and other species of deep sea catfish that will consume anything within a few hours. Just tragic to have your life ended like that.

@ol JB -- the banging noises were reported as debris falling, a normal phenomenon.

Over within 20 milliseconds - which means faster than one can process information.

Obviously the successor to SOSUS.

Eh, not so fast. Even when the Navy was using SOSUS there were other acoustic sensor systems in the water. Read up on how the then Chief Scientist for NAVSEA located USS Scorpion and the Soviet submarine K129.

It had a history of equipment failures.

Light fixtures from Camper World and being operated by a Playstation controller doesn't sound like something I'd rush out to pay $250K on. RIP to the victims though. I would love to see the Titanic too but will settle for seeing items from the ship in a museum exhibition.

Bass, an implosion at depth happens very rapidly. They didn't have time to suffer much. Consider a diver's rule of thumb that water pressure doubles with every ten meter increase in depth. They were drown and their bodies probably crushed almost instantly.

Over within 20 milliseconds - which means faster than one can process information.

More likely longer than that, but even 5 minutes of the rather slow or quick implosion was extremely catastrophic and they were probably aware of the impending doom.

The pressure at that depth is about 5,000 psi. An implosion is not gradual. It's like a 20' shipping container dropped on you. You're squished pretty quick.

Pretty much, and that is the sad reality to the end of all of this, knowing the end is coming.

As with Titanic, design and engineering of the vessel have been called into question. The sub made these dives many times, but it sounds like the stress of external pressure finally wore it down enough till it broke.

RIP

First and foremost heartfelt condolences to the families.

One can hope they all didn't suffer.

A sad end to an event that probably never would've happened if the CEO had listened to a whistleblower instead of firing him. Nevertheless, RIP to those who lost their lives.

There have been plenty of vile individuals gloating on Twitter that the people deserved to die, essentially because they were wealthy.

Who pays $250,000 for a tourist trip to look at dead people? If it was me, I would take a boat and put some nice flowers in respect for the dead.

James Cameron is being quoted as saying "he is “struck by the similarity” of the Titan submersible tragedy and the sinking of the Titanic in 1912."

He's going to have to explain that one as I can't see any similarity other than the fact that they both ended up on the seabed.

Simply one human being to another. I wish the families well, in there loss.

Regardless of wealth.

To grieve has no profusion, just a constant wish to turn back the clock.

knowing the end is coming

They wouldn't have even known or had time to process what happened, let alone realize the end is near - because it was instantaneous. It's not like it sprang a gradual leak and battled to plug it up with a sock or a thumb. The pressure vessel was carbon fiber main body, with the dual titanium front cap (with viewing port) and end cap - these were three of five significant pieces identified scattered separately (as of now) in the debris field which was indicative of a catastrophic failure that happened in a very small fraction of fraction of a split second. The other two parts are the cone-shaped rear fairing and the support legs (which it stands on its submersible launch platform).

Could they have "pulled the plug" to end it all in an instant when the oxygen had run out and they were gasping for breath?

@Harry Gatto, dunno what he meant either, but a link could be some folks with massive wealth make less cautious decisions? Case in point was the great grandparents of the communications director of Oceangate AKA the CEOs wife. The ancestor was a Macys executive. They always took German ships for their trips to the old country, but bought into the hype of the luxurious but untested Titanic and lost their gamble.

This is another case of explosive decompression from a little while back. Description included.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin

Harry_GattoToday  09:25 am JST

J.Cameron said in his interview that he was struck by warnings going unheeded on both vessels: a captain who ignores warnings about ice and steams full speed ahead and the well documented corner-cutting, design flaws and untested nature that OceanGate pushed. He draws on his experience as a deep-sea explorer who has designed his own vessel. It's a fair interview.

So their knocking inside made the already unstable material even more unstable at those extreme heavy water pressures from outside? But if it imploded much earlier, then who else is out there knocking?

RIP. Risky adventure though.

@Sven--nobody was knocking. The sound was debris falling off/around the Titanic, a normal thing that was hyped as special by social media users.

JJEToday  09:53 am JST

J.Cameron said in his interview that he was struck by warnings going unheeded on both vessels: a captain who ignores warnings about ice and steams full speed ahead and the well documented corner-cutting, design flaws and untested nature that OceanGate pushed.

That makes sense, the quote I saw said only -

"Movie director on Titan tragedy

James Cameron says he is “struck by the similarity” of the Titan submersible tragedy and the sinking of the Titanic in 1912.

The Hollywood director said many in the deep submergence engineering community had been “deeply concerned” about the OceanGate Expeditions craft that was reported missing on Sunday.

Cameron, who directed 1997 Oscar-winning film Titanic, has designed and built similar submersibles and had himself visited the wreckage of the famous ocean liner 33 times.

@sven. There was never any definitive connection between the "knocking" sounds and the submersible. It could have been anything around there. There was one sound, then another one a few hours after.

Finding that sound was compared to hearing a snare drum in a stadium full of cheering fans

Harry_GattoToday  10:06 am JST

Here is a great article that reviews what Cameron said in detail. Highly recommended reading. Also worth noting he was friends with the one of the victims. Plus it includes that video interview too,

James Cameron's Take On The Titan Disaster Is The Best We've Heard (thedrive.com)

Harry_GattoToday  09:25 am JST

James Cameron is being quoted as saying "he is “struck by the similarity” of the Titan submersible tragedy and the sinking of the Titanic in 1912."

He's going to have to explain that one as I can't see any similarity other than the fact that they both ended up on the seabed.

Hubris for both. The Titanic was "unsinkable." and the Titan was "invulnerable" per the CEO.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/james-camerons-take-on-the-titan-disaster-is-the-best-weve-heard

Over within 20 milliseconds - which means faster than one can process information.

Actually, it be about a millisecond, per the former director of undersea medicine for the US Navy.

"You're alive one millisecond, and the next millisecond you're dead."

Actually, it be about a millisecond, per the former director of undersea medicine for the US Navy.

"You're alive one millisecond, and the next millisecond you're dead."

To be honest, we can all speculate, but none of us have seen or have shown how long it takes to the exact time from dissent when or how this sub imploded or at which depth, that should all come together within the next few months.

Oceangate website is down at the moment, but I checked it yesterday. The team: managers, explorers, medical staff, scientists, IT manager and more. Didn't see any safety officer mentioned. Reports also suggest someone who questioned the safety was fired.

Thankfully the end was quick, can't imagine a slow death down there in a small tube.

I see one lone poster, bass4funk, make an allusion to the speed of the implosion.

On this site perhaps. 

How do you then create a very sudden scenario where this is a deeply held belief by people you obviously hate?

All I am just saying is, none of us were there and we have theories and nothing more, none of us have witnessed an implosion or seen or know in detail what happened. Not saying which is a correct hypothesis or what happened.

'@Paustovsky ...the ships captain was steering the sub with a gamepad !!!!! Logitech F710 wireless gamepad. DOH !!

https://www.10news.com/news/fact-or-fiction/fact-or-fiction-missing-titanic-submarine-steered-by-video-game-controller.

 ...the ships captain was steering the sub with a gamepad !!!!! Logitech F710 wireless gamepad. DOH !!

Now that definitely blew my mind! And still, people trusted this guy by paying $250K thinking it was safe. Just Wow!

All of these people will go down as heroes in history books. They were the ones who tested the limits, because the rest of us are too scared to do it.

UChosePoorly

It wasn't explosive decompression like in the oil rog incident you linked. When a submarine is crushed at depth, it's implosion or explosive compression.

Cards fanToday  07:57 am JST

Yes very amusing thankyou however they haven't actually found the bodies yet.

And I doubt they will considering what that kind of pressure will do to a body.

Perhaps reading the article again might help

Yes, perhaps it would.

The U.S. Coast Guard says a missing submersible imploded near the wreckage of the Titanic, killing all five people on board.

Do you think the Coast Guard is wrong?

Yes, why would they be wrong? The Coasties know the sea better than most. And they aren't hiding anything.

Thanks USN for the correction!

bass4funk

When woven carbon fiber fails it doesn't bend, tear, or crumple. It shatters. The submersible's implosion was instantaneous as were the deaths of its passengers.

Unlikely any bodies will be recovered. Do the families even want recoveries? The daughter of the French explorer said her father died in a place he loved. The family of the British billionaire has the money to pay for a major search.

When woven carbon fiber fails it doesn't bend, tear, or crumple. It shatters. The submersible's implosion was instantaneous as were the deaths of its passengers.

Which part of the sub was carbon fiber, the entire hull?

Unlikely any bodies will be recovered. Do the families even want recoveries? The daughter of the French explorer said her father died in a place he loved. The family of the British billionaire has the money to pay for a major search.

If the sub imploded in the manner USNinJapan2 stated then what was left of those people would be in small pieces and eaten by the mostly isopods that are abundant on the ocean floor.

Light fixtures from Camper World and being operated by a Playstation controller doesn't sound like something I'd rush out to pay $250K on.

The engineering on the sub was obviously flawed, but the controller was probably not a cost cutting measure, but a deliberate design feature.

US (ch)air Force drone pilots fly multimillion dollar drones, armed with deadly precision munitions with the controller of their choice. Most of the time, it is a PlayStation or Xbox controller, simply because the operator grew up using one and is more familiar with it.

All I am just saying is, none of us were there and we have theories and nothing more, none of us have witnessed an implosion or seen or know in detail what happened. Not saying which is a correct hypothesis or what happened.

These aren't theories, they have found and identified the remains of the craft which clearly indicate that it imploded.

If we find two wings that have fallen off an airplane lying on the ground we don't need to resort to much "theorizing" to deduce that the airplane they belonged to has crashed.

Carbon fibre body with titanium end caps.

Which part of the sub was carbon fiber, the entire hull?

Though fragile, life is a precious gift.

These aren't theories, they have found and identified the remains of the craft which clearly indicate that it imploded.

They also are now saying that it could have exploded so we definitively still don’t know exactly what happened, or should I say how it exactly happened.

If we find two wings that have fallen off an airplane lying on the ground we don't need to resort to much "theorizing" to deduce that the airplane they belonged to has crashed.

Ok, we are not talking about airplanes are we? You make an apples to oranges argument.

Carbon fibre body with titanium end caps.

Thanks

They also are now saying that it could have exploded 

Who is saying it could have exploded?

No one, according to Mr. Google.

Apart from a few illiterate twits on Twitter who apparently can't tell the difference between implode and explode.

Who is saying it could have exploded?

Two naval officials and a retired Navy Seal that were part of the search.

No one, according to Mr. Google.

What?

Apart from a few illiterate twits on Twitter who apparently can't tell the difference between implode and explode.

Uhhh, not sure what you’re talking about but anyway…

In the days to come this is also going to be a huge topic of discussion, not sure what the CEO was thinking…

Titanic tour CEO didn’t hire ‘50-year-old white guys’ because they weren’t ‘inspirational’

https://nypost.com/2023/06/21/why-stockton-rush-didnt-hire-50-year-old-white-guys-for-titanic-sub-tours/

This guy seemed to have had a ton of problems that are now coming out.

    ...the ships captain was steering the sub with a gamepad !!!!! Logitech F710 wireless gamepad. DOH !!

> Now that definitely blew my mind! And still, people trusted this guy by paying $250K thinking it was safe. Just Wow!

It could have been worse, it could have been Windows.

What inside the sub would cause an explosion? The sub most likely imploded in a massive crush which also killed the separately protected location beacon.

They also are now saying that it could have exploded so we definitively still don’t know exactly what happened, or should I say how it exactly happened.

Do you really not understand the difference between implode and explode? An explosion involves energy being directed outward, an implosion is the opposite. When you are in a submarine 3000 metres under the surface the amount of water pressure surrounding you assures that anything like this would be an implosion since it would take an amount of energy sufficient to counter that pressure to create an explosion, which is astronomically more than what a sub like this could create.

To give some perspective, at depths of about 600 metres (1/5 the depth we are talking about) a large nuclear bomb going off is only capable of creating a bubble that lasts for about one second due to the immense water pressure.

Ok, we are not talking about airplanes are we? You make an apples to oranges argument.

I was using an analogy. If we see evidence that logically leads to a conclusion, we don't really need to theorize about what happened.

If we find the remains of a submarine scattered about the bottom of the ocean, and we know that the submarine was deep underwater when it went missing in that exact location its not hard to put two and two together.

What inside the sub would cause an explosion? The sub most likely imploded in a massive crush which also killed the separately protected location beacon.

Very true.

I was using an analogy. If we see evidence that logically leads to a conclusion, we don't really need to theorize about what happened. 

Well, until their is a definite conclusion as to what happened and the books on this are closed people will always theorize as to what actually happened.

If we find the remains of a submarine scattered about the bottom of the ocean, and we know that the submarine was deep underwater when it went missing in that exact location its not hard to put two and two together.

Again, that is one part of the theory, meaning of how it came to this conclusion.

What kind of a blast would be needed to cause an explosion under pressure of 300 atmospheres?

I’m no scientist, but I would imagine it would be large enough to register on seismometers around the world.

And generate the daddy of all tsunamis?

What kind of a blast would be needed to cause an explosion under pressure of 300 atmospheres?

No one is definitively sure yet.

I’m no scientist,

Neither am I.

but I would imagine it would be large enough to register on seismometers around the world.

And generate the daddy of all tsunamis?

Well, I am just listening to all these various expert opinions on this issue nothing more, as I said before it’s gonna take weeks or months before we will figure out and find the truth as to what happened.

It will never be known what happened.

at that depth and at that pressue, a catastrophic implosion would mean the air in the capsule would have heated up to the temperature of the sun, and the capsule pancaked by the water in all of 30 milliseconds, according to one estimate. They died instantly. RIP

Just because some people got all C’s and D’s in high school doesn’t mean we all did. Some people are engineers.

It will never be known what happened.

You are probably right about that.

RIP. My thoughts are with their families.

The are right there Cleo, it wasn't an explosion, it was an implosion

I’m no scientist

Of the five men who died one did not deserve to die. He had his whole life before him but his father was too stupid and too rich to bring him along into the iron coffin. But at least all of the five who died did not know or suffer because they had no warning and their death was instantneous. But according to his aunt Suleiman the 19 year old student was terrified but went in because he wanted to please his too stupid and too rich father. Poor boy - Rest In Peace.

The name - Titan - and the coffin shape of the tiny submarine could have and should have warned all the five victims. Titan = Titan minus 2 letters ic. It is now time for the world to forget the Titanic, the ship with a curse on it.

However, it's worth noting that the passengers were not wearing diving suits and they were likely much deeper than 300 feet when the submersible was thought to have imploded — meaning the implosion that the faux meat mannequin experiences in the "Mythbusters" experiment is probably much slower than what the Titan passengers may have experienced. They likely died within milliseconds.

'Mythbusters' video shows what a deep-sea implosion does to a faux human in a scuba suit'

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mythbusters-video-shows-deep-sea-224356331.html

Death was instant! Experts all say in milliseconds! They were probably trying to resurface when it imploded!

Stephen Chin

Of the five men who died one did not deserve to die. 

None of them deserved to die.

If I knew the cylinder body was made from carbon fibre no matter the wall thickness I would not have bolted them in. If it was titanium with 75 mm min wall thickness yes I would bolted them in. Carbon fibre cylinder was a cost cutting option he gamble. I love to know the wall thickness even if was 300mm I would still have concerns.

If you really have to know what an implosion will do to the human body.

Check out what a microwave oven does to flesh.

Even blowing compressed air onto your skin can be fatal because if it enters your bloodstream, you've moments to live after it reaches your internal organs.

Take a flimsy plastic water bottle, empty with just air, screw it tight and try to pull it under the surface of the water.

You will instantly see the effects of the water's pressure on the sidewalls.

Another is to place liquid in a plastic bottle and leave it to sit in the sun.

A vacuum will be generated by the rays of the sun. It will try to pull the air from within the bottle, by slightly compressing itself.

Now, imagine all those forces, temperatures, mammals and debris hitting the submersible.

Whales and sharks have been trying to sink boats for a few years now.

Who is to say a whale didn't impact the Titan?

There is no way I would get in to this kind of a sub!!! And I don't understand anyone who would!!!